President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:50 am

conversationpc wrote:Didn't FDR's own Secretary of the Treasury admit that the New Deal crap didn't work?


Yeh, he said something to that effect.
Maybe he was a forerunner to Dick Morris and other backstabbing administration turncoats.
Even if taken only on its banking reform merits, it's arguable the New Deal left a lasting contribution.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:04 am

Ehwmatt wrote:Even liberal historians/political scientists and other liberal academics have not looked upon the New Deal kindly. Some of the most liberal professors I took during college disparaged it at one point or another.


One bumfuck university does not make up an economic consensus.
And if you're professors were dumb enough to let slip their political leanings, who knows what other intellectual shortcomings existed.
Krugman is a pretty liberal economist (and a recently Nobel awarded one), he can't say enough about the New Deal's virtues.

The leading train of thought that the New Deal failed stems from the book ‘The Forgotten Man.’
It has been quoted chapter and verse on Limbaugh, Beck etc.
It's been widely shown that author only looks at Dow Jones, not GDP, and also excludes all public sector jobs to fudge the unemployment data.
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:34 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Maybe he was a forerunner to Dick Morris and other backstabbing administration turncoats.


Gee, that's just so American of you. :roll:
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:53 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:Even liberal historians/political scientists and other liberal academics have not looked upon the New Deal kindly. Some of the most liberal professors I took during college disparaged it at one point or another.


One bumfuck university does not make up an economic consensus.
And if you're professors were dumb enough to let slip their political leanings, who knows what other intellectual shortcomings existed.
Krugman is a pretty liberal economist (and a recently Nobel awarded one), he can't say enough about the New Deal's virtues.

The leading train of thought that the New Deal failed stems from the book ‘The Forgotten Man.’
It has been quoted chapter and verse on Limbaugh, Beck etc.
It's been widely shown that author only looks at Dow Jones, not GDP, and also excludes all public sector jobs to fudge the unemployment data.


Yeah, like you have any idea where I went. I was blessed to have some outstanding and very smart professors, including a two highly respected academic authors in the field of political science and the founder of the Center for Political Participation. I definitely had my political differences with some of them, but they are far from "dumb." So, forgive me for deferring to them over some dude on a Journey board with a taco avatar :lol:. Professors reveal their political leanings all the time (not to say that all of them do). Maybe it wasn't that way when you went or you're just ignorant, not sure which.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:56 am

conversationpc wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Maybe he was a forerunner to Dick Morris and other backstabbing administration turncoats.


Gee, that's just so American of you. :roll:


No, it's just a fact.
Dick Morris made his bones selling out the very people that made his career.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:16 am

Ehwmatt wrote:Yeah, like you have any idea where I went. I was blessed to have some outstanding and very smart professors, including a two highly respected academic authors in the field of political science and the founder of the Center for Political Participation. I definitely had my political differences with some of them, but they are far from "dumb." So, forgive me for deferring to them over some dude on a Journey board with a taco avatar :lol:.


Like none of us had poli-sci classes before?
Spare me the who's-who of local podunk academe.
Unless they've written something on the subject, it's about as insightful as portajohn graffiti.
I'm going off what famed economists like Krugman and Dean Baker have written extensively on the subject.
Don’t trust my word on it.

Ehwmatt wrote:Professors reveal their political leanings all the time (not to say that all of them do). Maybe it wasn't that way when you went or you're just ignorant, not sure which.


I was educated in a log cabin schoolhouse in Wasilla.
We didn’t have running water or textbooks, for that matter.
The curriculum revolved around faith-based muskox gutting, and most of the student body was retarded.
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:19 am

Ehwmatt wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:Even liberal historians/political scientists and other liberal academics have not looked upon the New Deal kindly. Some of the most liberal professors I took during college disparaged it at one point or another.


One bumfuck university does not make up an economic consensus.
And if you're professors were dumb enough to let slip their political leanings, who knows what other intellectual shortcomings existed.
Krugman is a pretty liberal economist (and a recently Nobel awarded one), he can't say enough about the New Deal's virtues.

The leading train of thought that the New Deal failed stems from the book ‘The Forgotten Man.’
It has been quoted chapter and verse on Limbaugh, Beck etc.
It's been widely shown that author only looks at Dow Jones, not GDP, and also excludes all public sector jobs to fudge the unemployment data.


Yeah, like you have any idea where I went.


I believe TNC was making a comment in jest, as to say you attended one of the 4,216 college's and universities in the United States. I don't believe he was slamming your institute of higher learning.
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:22 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Maybe he was a forerunner to Dick Morris and other backstabbing administration turncoats.


Gee, that's just so American of you. :roll:


No, it's just a fact.
Dick Morris made his bones selling out the very people that made his career.


Dave, Dick Morris is a slimeball. A true turncoat of Bill and Hillary. Love them or hate them, they gave him his career. Of course Fox News would pick him up, along with Karl Rove, Mike Huckabee, and any other Democrat hating politico. :roll:
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Postby AlteredDNA » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:24 am

Rockindeano wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Maybe he was a forerunner to Dick Morris and other backstabbing administration turncoats.


Gee, that's just so American of you. :roll:


No, it's just a fact.
Dick Morris made his bones selling out the very people that made his career.


Dave, Dick Morris is a slimeball. A true turncoat of Bill and Hillary. Love them or hate them, they gave him his career. Of course Fox News would pick him up, along with Karl Rove, Mike Huckabee, and any other Democrat hating politico. :roll:


Feel the same about Scott McClellan?
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:24 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:Yeah, like you have any idea where I went. I was blessed to have some outstanding and very smart professors, including a two highly respected academic authors in the field of political science and the founder of the Center for Political Participation. I definitely had my political differences with some of them, but they are far from "dumb." So, forgive me for deferring to them over some dude on a Journey board with a taco avatar :lol:.


Like none of us had poli-sci classes before?
Spare me the who's-who of local podunk academe.
Unless they've written something on the subject, it's about as insightful as portajohn graffiti.
I'm going off what famed economists like Krugman and Dean Baker have written extensively on the subject.
Don’t trust my word on it.


I won't, don't worry :lol:
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:25 am

Rockindeano wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:Even liberal historians/political scientists and other liberal academics have not looked upon the New Deal kindly. Some of the most liberal professors I took during college disparaged it at one point or another.


One bumfuck university does not make up an economic consensus.
And if you're professors were dumb enough to let slip their political leanings, who knows what other intellectual shortcomings existed.
Krugman is a pretty liberal economist (and a recently Nobel awarded one), he can't say enough about the New Deal's virtues.

The leading train of thought that the New Deal failed stems from the book ‘The Forgotten Man.’
It has been quoted chapter and verse on Limbaugh, Beck etc.
It's been widely shown that author only looks at Dow Jones, not GDP, and also excludes all public sector jobs to fudge the unemployment data.


Yeah, like you have any idea where I went.


I believe TNC was making a comment in jest, as to say you attended one of the 4,216 college's and universities in the United States. I don't believe he was slamming your institute of higher learning.


Maybe. Where the hell have you been the last couple days, haven't seen much of you around.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:29 am

Rockindeano wrote:Dave, Dick Morris is a slimeball. A true turncoat of Bill and Hillary. Love them or hate them, they gave him his career. Of course Fox News would pick him up, along with Karl Rove, Mike Huckabee, and any other Democrat hating politico. :roll:


Don't forget Iran-Contra thug, Oliver North.
They make heroes out of the most loathsome contemptible pieces of shit.
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Postby Rockindeano » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:20 pm

Fact Finder wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:Dave, Dick Morris is a slimeball. A true turncoat of Bill and Hillary. Love them or hate them, they gave him his career. Of course Fox News would pick him up, along with Karl Rove, Mike Huckabee, and any other Democrat hating politico. :roll:


Don't forget Iran-Contra thug, Oliver North.
They make heroes out of the most loathsome contemptible pieces of shit.


:cry:


Aw but he is a hero :roll: Why doesn't Fox put Scott McClelland on it's "Fair and Balanced" station? You know, a true Bush employee who spoke out against the machine? How about General Powell, the 4 star General who sheepishly stepped down after being force fed a lie by Dick Cheney and George W Bush, then, incredulously, as any good soldier would do, obeyed the chain of command and the orders therein received, and went on stage in front of the world and delivered a blatant lie. Noooo, you won't see these people. Even MSNBC doesn't parade the likes of Dee Dee Meyers, Tom Daschle and the like, in a blatant attempt to smear the opposition.
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Postby Gideon » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:21 pm

This thread reminds me about having to write an editorial about President Obama talking about shutting down Gitmo today.

Edit: Sentence should read: "This thread reminds me that I had to write an editorial about President Obama talking about shutting down Gitmo, today." Fucked that one up pretty badly.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:11 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I was educated in a log cabin schoolhouse in Wasilla.
We didn’t have running water or textbooks, for that matter.
The curriculum revolved around faith-based muskox gutting, and most of the student body was retarded.


Just when I thought you couldn't possibly top yourself, you come out with this. I'm still peeing my pants.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:23 pm

Uno_up wrote:I love Jon Stewart's bailout proposal...
Rather then give the money to the banks, give the money to the people who have mortgages and mandate that they put the money to their mortgages. That way the banks get their money and the people who had mortgages can now start buying things and stimulating the economy. Everyone is happy.


Similarly, Bush's "stimulus" package should have included a mandate (as was part of the British bailout, which is a monumental success) that banks actually LOAN the money to small business owners instead of using it to pay down bad debt. A client of mine - a lifelong ultra-conservative - employs seven people in his own construction business. He banked for 24 years with BB&T, had stellar and impeccable credit - and yet the bank pulled the plug on all but $1 million of a $10 million dollar project he had in development.

He met with the bank president, who informed him BB&T would no longer be lending money to anyone. Why? Because despite the infusion of billions of dollars of capital into BB&T, there was NO REGULATION whatsoever. In a nutshell, my client is supporting the Democrats for the first time in his 49 years.
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Postby AlteredDNA » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:04 am

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... se-cookie/

Pelosi's mouse slated for $30M slice of cheese

Talk about a pet project. A tiny mouse with the longtime backing of a political giant may soon reap the benefits of the economic-stimulus package.

Lawmakers and administration officials divulged Wednesday that the $789 billion economic stimulus bill being finalized behind closed doors in Congress includes $30 million for wetlands restoration that the Obama administration intends to spend in the San Francisco Bay Area to protect, among other things, the endangered salt marsh harvest mouse.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi represents the city of San Francisco and has previously championed preserving the mouse's habitat in the Bay Area.

The revelation immediately became a political football, as Republicans accused Democrats of reneging on a promise to keep so-called earmarks that fund lawmakers' favorite projects out of the legislation. Democrats, including Mrs. Pelosi, countered that the accusations were fabricated.

Politics aside, the episode demonstrates that no matter how hard lawmakers argue that they technically lived up to their pledge to keep specific projects from being listed in the bill, there is little stopping the federal money from going to those projects after the legislation passes and federal and state agencies begin deciding where to spend their newfound dollars.

Programs for sexually transmitted diseases, smoking prevention, a clean-burning power plant and a computer center also appear ready to get infusions of money once the bill becomes law, congressional offices told The Washington Times.

"One of the proudest boasts of Democrats supporting their trillion-dollar spending plan is that it doesn't contain earmarks. But it seems like powerful Democrats will still find a way to bring home the bacon," said a frustrated Michael Steel, spokesman for House Minority Leader John A. Boehner, Ohio Republican, who took direct aim at the mouse.

"This certainly doesn't sound like it will create or save American jobs," Mr. Steel said. "So can Speaker Pelosi explain exactly how we will improve the American economy by helping the adorable little" critter?

A spokesman for Mrs. Pelosi said Republicans "fabricated" the claim.

"The speaker nor her staff have had any involvement in this initiative. This is yet another contrived partisan attack," Pelosi spokesman Drew Hammill said. "Restoration is key to economic activity, including farming, fisheries, recreation and clean water."

Republican lawmakers said they learned of the marsh money when asking about how various agencies plan to spend stimulus money. The vitality of the mouse has been an issue for Mrs. Pelosi and other California Democrats since the early 1990s.

President Obama boasts that the stimulus plan contains no earmarks because Congress technically did not use the earmark process for lawmakers to request and drop in specific spending items. Congressional leaders were putting the finishing touches on a $789 billion final version of the bill Wednesday night. It was not clear how many of the programs criticized by Republicans remained in the package.

Some of those items that Republicans are calling earmarks include $200 million for a clean-burning power plant in Mattoon, Ill., and $750 million for the National Computer Center and $500 million for the National Institutes of Health offices, both located in Maryland.

Other spending questioned by Republicans -- but not considered on the chopping block -- are $275 million for flood prevention, $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges and libraries, and $650 million for the digital TV converter-box coupons.

The list goes on: $1 billion for administrative costs and construction of National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration office buildings, $100 million for constructing U.S. Marshals office buildings, and $1.3 billion for NASA, including $450 million tagged for science.

Then there is the $300 million for hybrid and electric cars for the federal government. The funding includes golf carts for federal workers.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:08 am

7 Wishes wrote:
Uno_up wrote:I love Jon Stewart's bailout proposal...
Rather then give the money to the banks, give the money to the people who have mortgages and mandate that they put the money to their mortgages. That way the banks get their money and the people who had mortgages can now start buying things and stimulating the economy. Everyone is happy.


Similarly, Bush's "stimulus" package should have included a mandate (as was part of the British bailout, which is a monumental success) that banks actually LOAN the money to small business owners instead of using it to pay down bad debt. A client of mine - a lifelong ultra-conservative - employs seven people in his own construction business. He banked for 24 years with BB&T, had stellar and impeccable credit - and yet the bank pulled the plug on all but $1 million of a $10 million dollar project he had in development.

He met with the bank president, who informed him BB&T would no longer be lending money to anyone. Why? Because despite the infusion of billions of dollars of capital into BB&T, there was NO REGULATION whatsoever. In a nutshell, my client is supporting the Democrats for the first time in his 49 years.


Bush's idiocy is a piss-poor reason to support Democrats.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:09 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:Dave, Dick Morris is a slimeball. A true turncoat of Bill and Hillary. Love them or hate them, they gave him his career. Of course Fox News would pick him up, along with Karl Rove, Mike Huckabee, and any other Democrat hating politico. :roll:


Don't forget Iran-Contra thug, Oliver North.
They make heroes out of the most loathsome contemptible pieces of shit.


Good description of Bill Ayers.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:13 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I was educated in a log cabin schoolhouse in Wasilla.
We didn’t have running water or textbooks, for that matter.
The curriculum revolved around faith-based muskox gutting, and most of the student body was retarded.


Wow, considering the gory detail you go into here, I'm assuming that you had personal experience with this. Did you graduate or should I just continue picturing you wearing the dunce cap, sitting in the corner. :lol:

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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:15 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Eric wrote:Unemployment figures went down from 25%.....thats not a good argument at all.


At its most effective, the New Deal saw unemployment drop by 40%.
Those weren't just pinpoints on a statistician's graph, they were people back to work.
Every bogus right wing argument that says the New Deal didn't work relies looking only at Dow Jones for economic health, and also discounts every public sector job.


No....I'm stating that Unemployment was at 25%, so saying it fell 40% to 15% doesn't mean much....it had nowhere to go but fall.
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:16 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
conversationpc wrote:Didn't FDR's own Secretary of the Treasury admit that the New Deal crap didn't work?


Yeh, he said something to that effect.
Maybe he was a forerunner to Dick Morris and other backstabbing administration turncoats.
Even if taken only on its banking reform merits, it's arguable the New Deal left a lasting contribution.



Yeah - it left off with some entitlement programs that LDR and Jimma bloated
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:18 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:Even liberal historians/political scientists and other liberal academics have not looked upon the New Deal kindly. Some of the most liberal professors I took during college disparaged it at one point or another.


One bumfuck university does not make up an economic consensus.
And if you're professors were dumb enough to let slip their political leanings, who knows what other intellectual shortcomings existed.
Krugman is a pretty liberal economist (and a recently Nobel awarded one), he can't say enough about the New Deal's virtues.

The leading train of thought that the New Deal failed stems from the book ‘The Forgotten Man.’
It has been quoted chapter and verse on Limbaugh, Beck etc.
It's been widely shown that author only looks at Dow Jones, not GDP, and also excludes all public sector jobs to fudge the unemployment data.



Krugman is an academic......one of the far left loons who doesn't live in the real world
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:09 am

conversationpc wrote:Good description of Bill Ayers.


Aside from a few blogs on HuffPo, Ayers remains largely a private citizen.
North, on the other hand, has been subsumed into the fabric of the Republican party and is a permanent fixture on FOX News.
Nobody is letting Ayers speak at the Democratic convention, and he won't be getting his own MSNBC show either.
No comparison.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:17 am

conversationpc wrote:Bush's idiocy is a piss-poor reason to support Democrats.


Realizing, however, that their fiscal policy is more sound, and their stimulus package will actually generate secondary capital and jobs, is.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:30 am

Eric wrote:Krugman is an academic......one of the far left loons who doesn't live in the real world


Yeh, as if Greenspan has grime under his nails and calloused knuckles. :roll:
NO ivory tower numbercruncher swings a sledge in a rock quarry.
Just what the fuck are you talking about.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:36 am

There is a difference between tightening lending policies for extending credit, and extending none at all.

It seems to me you're espousing the virtues of tighter control and regulation - which the Right has been fighting against for twenty-nine years.

Anyway, the next four years should be fun over here...especially if Obama's policies turn the economy around!
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:51 am

The Bush Administration single-handedly slammed the American economy into the ground not once, but twice.
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:58 am

7 Wishes wrote:The Bush Administration single-handedly slammed the American economy into the ground not once, but twice.


You are so full of shit. You forget Libs like Bawney Fwank threatened "racism" if unqualified minorities were not given mortgages they couldn't afford. If you look at the economy at the end of 2006 when the GOP last had any control and then look at it now after 2 years of Lib mismanagement its pretty hard to blame W. But you morons will blame him for scraping your knee so whats the point
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:09 am

Eric wrote:You are so full of shit. You forget Libs like Bawney Fwank threatened "racism" if unqualified minorities were not given mortgages they couldn't afford.


Total myth.
First off, the housing push (or the "home ownership society", as Bush called it) was a bi-partisan effort dating back to Carter.
Secondly, Frank was criticized by the Wall Street Journal when he tried to curb subprime lending.
A homosexual jew might make a convenient target for the Right - kinda how ACORN is now a byword for lazy minorities - but he's not the culprit.
Most important of all, 80% of all subprime loans were made by banks not subject to the Community Reinvestment Act.
So your whole charge is just bullshit.

Eric wrote:If you look at the economy at the end of 2006 when the GOP last had any control and then look at it now after 2 years of Lib mismanagement its pretty hard to blame W. But you morons will blame him for scraping your knee so whats the point


Ok.
Point to specific legislation.
What did the Democrats change that sank us into economic wrack and ruin?
At varying intervals, both Bush and the Rep and Dem controlled Congress attempted to reform Fannie and Freddie with little success.
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