President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:15 am

Eric wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:The Bush Administration single-handedly slammed the American economy into the ground not once, but twice.


You are so full of shit. You forget Libs like Bawney Fwank threatened "racism" if unqualified minorities were not given mortgages they couldn't afford. If you look at the economy at the end of 2006 when the GOP last had any control and then look at it now after 2 years of Lib mismanagement its pretty hard to blame W. But you morons will blame him for scraping your knee so whats the point


So the White House has zero responsibility huh? The fallacy that the Democrats controlled Congress from 06-08 is really mindboggling. They had a one seat lead in the Senate, and everyone involved in this thread has a brain, and knows damned well, that a one seat lead means nothing. Now that they have the 9 or 10 seat lead, that is quite different, but this argument you Cons use is really weak. Either way, the White House still makes policy, and has to sign off on any Congressional action, so the buck still stops at W's desk.

I think Frank sucks too, for the record.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:25 am

Oh, he sucks, alright.

I would love to be a fly on the wall the next four (and probably eight) years...just to see how crazy the Democratic dominance makes the cons on this board.
But around town, it was well known...when they got home at night
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:27 am

Fact Finder wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:There is a difference between tightening lending policies for extending credit, and extending none at all.

It seems to me you're espousing the virtues of tighter control and regulation - which the Right has been fighting against for twenty-nine years.

Anyway, the next four years should be fun over here...especially if Obama's policies turn the economy around!


I'm only espousing that your remark (made only to slam Bush), saying the Brit bailout was a success, was a very stupid and uninformed remark. Nothing more, nothing less.


The Brit bailout has been a complete disaster. The British economy is in worse shape than the US economy, and it going to struggle to recover. The only job growth in Britain since 1997 have been in the public sector area, and as a result theres no real dyanmism in the economy - all those public sector jobs are just sucking the air out of the system. Hate to say it but the US is heading the same direction.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:33 am

7 Wishes wrote:Oh, he sucks, alright.

I would love to be a fly on the wall the next four (and probably eight) years...just to see how crazy the Democratic dominance makes the cons on this board.


20 days in and they are already running into walls, hysterical and confused. Puppetmaster Limbaugh is leading the sheep over ledge and into the abyss. We may truly see the demise of a major party. The GOP is in shambles. led by a hate mongering loudmouth radio slob, with a brainless wolf shooting Bimbo from the wilderness as their hope in 2012. I have always said I would be ashamed to say I was a republican. Sure glad I am not one now. Fucking embarrassment.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:39 am

Rockindeano wrote:
7 Wishes wrote:Oh, he sucks, alright.

I would love to be a fly on the wall the next four (and probably eight) years...just to see how crazy the Democratic dominance makes the cons on this board.


20 days in and they are already running into walls, hysterical and confused. Puppetmaster Limbaugh is leading the sheep over ledge and into the abyss. We may truly see the demise of a major party. The GOP is in shambles. led by a hate mongering loudmouth radio slob, with a brainless wolf shooting Bimbo from the wilderness as their hope in 2012. I have always said I would be ashamed to say I was a republican. Sure glad I am not one now. Fucking embarrassment.


GOP and the conservatives are in shambles, yes. Those of us who are Libertarians with a Hayekian viewpoint are, however, watching the situation with perfect clarity, and will take some consolation in the fact of the fact that history will prove us right. :D
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:40 am

To draw comparisons with the British economy versus the American economy is retarded. The UK is reliant on the Euro community and we all know Europe is in the shitter right now. America, can swallow the UK in a sip of water. California is a bigger economy than the UK. The point is this is a world economy, but America has to lead and for the last few years, has failed miserably. America needs to think outside the box, drop the fucking tax cuts for the wealthy, and get the fuck out of Iraq.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:43 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
GOP and the conservatives are in shambles, yes. Those of us who are Libertarians


Aw, is that what we are calling ourselves now? :wink: :D
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:48 am

Rockindeano wrote:To draw comparisons with the British economy versus the American economy is retarded. The UK is reliant on the Euro community and we all know Europe is in the shitter right now. America, can swallow the UK in a sip of water. California is a bigger economy than the UK. The point is this is a world economy, but America has to lead and for the last few years, has failed miserably. America needs to think outside the box, drop the fucking tax cuts for the wealthy, and get the fuck out of Iraq.



The UK's biggest trading partner is the US not Europe. More FDI comes into the UK from the US than Europe and the UK invests more in the US than it does in Europe. Euroskeptics in England point this out ad nauseum.

You are right the contintental European economies are in the shitter. The US and UK are currently shocked with their 8% unemployment rate. In France Spain and Italy its been 10-11 percent since god knows when. Thats because big goverment has created structural unemployment over there. The US and UK will now have that too with govt spending over 40 % of GDP- soon 7% unemployment will be considered "good times".

Irregardless of the size and scale of the country its imposed on- govt control of the economy is nothing but a road to serfdom, I dont care if a dumfuck Republican/Conservative poltician institutes or and even more inaine brainless Democrat /Labour poltician implements it
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:16 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Eric wrote:You are so full of shit. You forget Libs like Bawney Fwank threatened "racism" if unqualified minorities were not given mortgages they couldn't afford.


Total myth.
First off, the housing push (or the "home ownership society", as Bush called it) was a bi-partisan effort dating back to Carter.
Secondly, Frank was criticized by the Wall Street Journal when he tried to curb subprime lending.
A homosexual jew might make a convenient target for the Right - kinda how ACORN is now a byword for lazy minorities - but he's not the culprit.
Most important of all, 80% of all subprime loans were made by banks not subject to the Community Reinvestment Act.
So your whole charge is just bullshit.

Eric wrote:If you look at the economy at the end of 2006 when the GOP last had any control and then look at it now after 2 years of Lib mismanagement its pretty hard to blame W. But you morons will blame him for scraping your knee so whats the point


Ok.
Point to specific legislation.
What did the Democrats change that sank us into economic wrack and ruin?
At varying intervals, both Bush and the Rep and Dem controlled Congress attempted to reform Fannie and Freddie with little success.



The Community Reinvestment Act and other Democratic-promoted policies to ease lending standards for the poor helped pave the way for the current subprime and financial crises. That has acted as a domino falling for the rest of the economy, and now we have our PRESIDENT walking around saying negative things like "party's over". Its mostly phsycological when it comes to the economy. Companies have been scared (or are using bad news as an excuse) to lay off people. Now..things ARE getting bad. We need a dose of Reagan's optimism...it feels an awful lot like the start of the movie Miracle now.....with Jimma saying how bad life is.

Bottom line. Bawney is as much to blame for this as, say, W. I think W and Paulson stabilized banks not wanting to repeat the mistakes of Hoover. The oversight was not there...thats on W. He then tried to reassure the country that we'd be okay, which, in fairness, he did not do as good a job of as he did during 9-11 when he genuinelly calmed me down during his speeches after.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:44 am

Eric wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Ok.
Point to specific legislation.
What did the Democrats change that sank us into economic wrack and ruin?
At varying intervals, both Bush and the Rep and Dem controlled Congress attempted to reform Fannie and Freddie with little success.



The Community Reinvestment Act and other Democratic-promoted policies to ease lending standards for the poor helped pave the way for the current subprime and financial crises. That has acted as a domino falling for the rest of the economy, and now we have our PRESIDENT walking around saying negative things like "party's over". Its mostly phsycological when it comes to the economy. Companies have been scared (or are using bad news as an excuse) to lay off people. Now..things ARE getting bad. We need a dose of Reagan's optimism...it feels an awful lot like the start of the movie Miracle now.....with Jimma saying how bad life is.

Bottom line. Bawney is as much to blame for this as, say, W. I think W and Paulson stabilized banks not wanting to repeat the mistakes of Hoover. The oversight was not there...thats on W. He then tried to reassure the country that we'd be okay, which, in fairness, he did not do as good a job of as he did during 9-11 when he genuinelly calmed me down during his speeches after.


As predicted, you got nothin.
By the way, lending to financially unsound demographics expanded under Bush, not shrank.
It was part of his and Rove's vision to try and draw hispanics into the GOP tent.
And I fail to see how the CRA is a factor when 80% of the subprime loans were made by banks not subject to it.

As for Barney Frank, his anti-predatory lending Mortgage Reform Act, earned him the scorn of the Wall Street Journal.
Therein, the cons bitched how his legislation "would impose new rules and financial penalties on subprime lenders " and how "..eighty percent of subprime loans are being repaid on time and another ten percent are only thirty days behind. Most of these new homeowners are low-income families, often minorities, who would otherwise not have qualified for a mortgage. In the name of consumer protection, Mr. Frank's legislation will ensure that far fewer of these loans are issued in the future."

And this was just one of several pieces of housing reform legislation Frank attempted to get across.
Like I said before, you're full of shit.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial ... =110010826
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:20 am

Eric wrote:Yeah - it left off with some entitlement programs that LDR and Jimma bloated


Never heard of the SEC, FDIC, or countless other New Deal firewalls, eh?
Odd, considering your party has been devoted to systematically dismantling them for much of the last century.
Prior to FDR, black lung-riddled adolescents and hypothermia-suffering grandparents were the norm.
You should get down on your knees daily and thank the good lord (no, not Reagan!) you tumbled out of your mom’s foul smelling hole AFTER FDR terraformed this into a civilized nation.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:55 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:[The UK's biggest trading partner is the US not Europe. More FDI comes into the UK from the US than Europe and the UK invests more in the US than it does in Europe. Euroskeptics in England point this out ad nauseum.


Yes, but the neighbouring states of the EU are vastly important to the Brits.

Largest trading partner for most free staes is the USA. Hell, did you know Canada imports more oil to the US than anyone? Canada is the USA's largest trade partner, but my point is, we need more than Canada to be prosperous.

You are right the contintental European economies are in the shitter. The US and UK are currently shocked with their 8% unemployment rate. In France Spain and Italy its been 10-11 percent since god knows when. Thats because big goverment has created structural unemployment over there. The US and UK will now have that too with govt spending over 40 % of GDP- soon 7% unemployment will be considered "good times".


The stimuli package is too small. We need to double it, with nothing but infrastructure shovel ready jobs, in the form of specific uses; block grants, China had a huge stimuli package, about 20% of their GDP, and it was very effective. The US plan is about 9-10% of our GDP, and yes, filled with too much crap, including tax cuts. tax cuts aren't going to help anyone. They won't be spent, they will be saved. A lot of good that does.

Irregardless of the size and scale of the country its imposed on- govt control of the economy is nothing but a road to serfdom, I dont care if a dumfuck Republican/Conservative poltician institutes or and even more inaine brainless Democrat /Labour poltician implements it


Have to say it, irregardless is not a word :wink: I say that to you, because you are obviously a smart guy.
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:22 am

Great editorial from the New Hampshire paper:

One month from tomorrow, U.S. Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., will be the keynote speaker at the New Hampshire Democratic Party’s annual Jefferson-Jackson dinner. It is a coveted and high-profile role previously filled by such notables as Hillary Clinton and Al Gore. The Democrats’ choice of House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank is, therefore, very revealing.

The party announced Frank as the keynote speaker on Sept. 11 — three days after the U.S. government took control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, costing taxpayers untold billions. That takeover probably could have been prevented had Frank not worked to thwart every attempt to limit the risks taken on by the two government-sponsored mortgage giants.

For 16 years reformers in Congress have tried to improve oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and prevent the government-chartered companies from putting the housing market and the whole economy at risk. All that time, Frank was involved in efforts to block those attempts, and in the last eight years he was a leader of those efforts.

In 2002, shortly before accounting irregularities were exposed at both companies, Frank said, “I do not regard Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as problems,” The Wall Street Journal reported. After the Freddie Mac accounting scandal in 2003, Frank said, “I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis.”

But there was a crisis, thanks in large part to Frank, Sen. Charles Schumer and others on the leash of these companies. In Congress, they made sure there was no additional oversight, no additional limit on executive behavior and compensation, and no further restraint on the growth of the companies’ mortgage-backed-securities portfolios, among other changes.

(All of these needed reforms, by the way, have been championed for years by Sen. John Sununu.)

In fact, Frank & Co. made matters worse by pushing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take on greater risk. They wanted more loans to people who might not qualify for traditional bank financing. And, as The Wall Street Journal has pointed out, Frank “pressured regulators to ease up on their capital requirements — which now means taxpayers will have to make up that capital shortfall.”

Even now, after the government took the companies over (which Frank repeatedly said over the years was not a possibility), Frank opposes limits on the amount of money they can risk on mortgage backed securities — the one reform that might have done the most to prevent the current meltdown and probably would do the most to keep it from happening again.

Barney Frank is the very symbol of Washington’s deliberate refusal to prevent the collapse — the predicted collapse — of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And this is the guy the New Hampshire Democratic Party showcases at its most prestigious annual event. That ought to tell you a lot right there.

Besides their total ignorance about the troubles that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were headed towards is the fact that these two men, and other Democrats, helped to make the problem worse.

In fact, Frank & Co. made matters worse by pushing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take on greater risk. They wanted more loans to people who might not qualify for traditional bank financing. And, as The Wall Street Journal has pointed out, Frank “pressured regulators to ease up on their capital requirements

These companies were forced to loan money to people who couldn’t afford it in the interest of “being fair.” Rules were relaxed and money was loaned and predictably low income families defaulted on loans that they never had any business getting in the first place and now you and I have to pay for it.

Another liberal policy and another liberal failure. And now we must all pay for it. But hell, they meant well.
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Postby Michigan Girl » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:26 am

Rockindeano wrote:Have to say it, irregardless is not a word :wink: I say that to you, because you are obviously a smart guy.


I hate to do this, because you are rarely wrong :lol:
but I'm going to have to correct you on this....
irregardless is a word, not a good one mind you, but a word none-the-less!!!
Regardless works!! :wink:
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:26 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote: As predicted, you got nothin.
By the way, lending to financially unsound demographics expanded under Bush, not shrank.
It was part of his and Rove's vision to try and draw hispanics into the GOP tent.


You say "ive got nothing" and then you throw lies like this out? The only people trying to play games like this is that piece of shit Emanuel and Bobama by taking over the Census from the Commerce Department. This is nothing but a devious attempt to fudge population numbers to affect future elections.

Fucking shameful this Administration is.
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:27 am

Michigan Girl wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:Have to say it, irregardless is not a word :wink: I say that to you, because you are obviously a smart guy.


I hate to do this, because you are rarely wrong :lol:
but I'm going to have to correct you on this....
irregardless is a word, not a good one mind you, but a word none-the-less!!!
Regardless works!! :wink:


I use it all the time and its really not a word. Its a bad habit.
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Postby Michigan Girl » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:29 am

Eric wrote:
Michigan Girl wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:Have to say it, irregardless is not a word :wink: I say that to you, because you are obviously a smart guy.


I hate to do this, because you are rarely wrong :lol:
but I'm going to have to correct you on this....
irregardless is a word, not a good one mind you, but a word none-the-less!!!
Regardless works!! :wink:


I use it all the time and its really not a word. Its a bad habit.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:37 am

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Postby S2M » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:40 am

Eric wrote:http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/doh-caterpillar.html

http://drudgereport.com/flashgg.htm

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123431418276770899.html


How's the song go? Oh yeah.....IT GOES ON AND ON AND ON AND OOOOOONNNN



Nice Raven reference....... :wink:
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:42 am

Eric wrote:You say "ive got nothing" and then you throw lies like this out? The only people trying to play games like this is that piece of shit Emanuel and Bobama by taking over the Census from the Commerce Department. This is nothing but a devious attempt to fudge population numbers to affect future elections.

Fucking shameful this Administration is.


Amazing that something like this should draw your ire, yet despite Bush's numerous impeachable offenses, you defended him to the hilt. How does it feel to be that ignorant?
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:43 am

7 Wishes wrote:
Eric wrote:You say "ive got nothing" and then you throw lies like this out? The only people trying to play games like this is that piece of shit Emanuel and Bobama by taking over the Census from the Commerce Department. This is nothing but a devious attempt to fudge population numbers to affect future elections.

Fucking shameful this Administration is.


Amazing that something like this should draw your ire, yet despite Bush's numerous impeachable offenses, you defended him to the hilt. How does it feel to be that ignorant?


Which impeachable offense is that? This should be fun....
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:56 am

1. Invading a sovereign nation on false pretenses;
2. Electronic wiretapping without court orders;
3. Violating the Geneva convention;
4. Voter suppression in Ohio;
5. Denying first amendment rights to protesters;
6. Illegally transferring funds from the war in Afghanistan to be used in Iraq;
7. Illegal and secret trade with Iran;
8. Kidnapping and detaining suspects and sending them to illegal prison camps.

What else do you want? I own you.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:56 am

Eric wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote: As predicted, you got nothin.
By the way, lending to financially unsound demographics expanded under Bush, not shrank.
It was part of his and Rove's vision to try and draw hispanics into the GOP tent.


You say "ive got nothing" and then you throw lies like this out?


It's not a lie.
NYTimes covered the subprime crisis in a meticulously researched 20 page article, that, among other things, even shed light on Bush's one-time efforts to reform Freddie and Fannie.
In it, Paulson and other Bush officials admit exactly what I said above.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/21admin.html

Eric wrote:The only people trying to play games like this is that piece of shit Emanuel and Bobama by taking over the Census from the Commerce Department. This is nothing but a devious attempt to fudge population numbers to affect future elections.

Fucking shameful this Administration is.


Yeh, what a seething outrage.
Let me grab my pitchfork, and I'll catch up with you on the national mall. :roll:
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:26 am

Eric wrote:Great editorial from the New Hampshire paper:

One month from tomorrow, U.S. Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., will be the keynote speaker at the New Hampshire Democratic Party’s annual Jefferson-Jackson dinner. It is a coveted and high-profile role previously filled by such notables as Hillary Clinton and Al Gore. The Democrats’ choice of House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank is, therefore, very revealing.

The party announced Frank as the keynote speaker on Sept. 11 — three days after the U.S. government took control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, costing taxpayers untold billions. That takeover probably could have been prevented had Frank not worked to thwart every attempt to limit the risks taken on by the two government-sponsored mortgage giants.

For 16 years reformers in Congress have tried to improve oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and prevent the government-chartered companies from putting the housing market and the whole economy at risk. All that time, Frank was involved in efforts to block those attempts, and in the last eight years he was a leader of those efforts.

In 2002, shortly before accounting irregularities were exposed at both companies, Frank said, “I do not regard Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as problems,” The Wall Street Journal reported. After the Freddie Mac accounting scandal in 2003, Frank said, “I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis.”

But there was a crisis, thanks in large part to Frank, Sen. Charles Schumer and others on the leash of these companies. In Congress, they made sure there was no additional oversight, no additional limit on executive behavior and compensation, and no further restraint on the growth of the companies’ mortgage-backed-securities portfolios, among other changes.

(All of these needed reforms, by the way, have been championed for years by Sen. John Sununu.)

In fact, Frank & Co. made matters worse by pushing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take on greater risk. They wanted more loans to people who might not qualify for traditional bank financing. And, as The Wall Street Journal has pointed out, Frank “pressured regulators to ease up on their capital requirements — which now means taxpayers will have to make up that capital shortfall.”

Even now, after the government took the companies over (which Frank repeatedly said over the years was not a possibility), Frank opposes limits on the amount of money they can risk on mortgage backed securities — the one reform that might have done the most to prevent the current meltdown and probably would do the most to keep it from happening again.

Barney Frank is the very symbol of Washington’s deliberate refusal to prevent the collapse — the predicted collapse — of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And this is the guy the New Hampshire Democratic Party showcases at its most prestigious annual event. That ought to tell you a lot right there.

Besides their total ignorance about the troubles that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were headed towards is the fact that these two men, and other Democrats, helped to make the problem worse.

In fact, Frank & Co. made matters worse by pushing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take on greater risk. They wanted more loans to people who might not qualify for traditional bank financing. And, as The Wall Street Journal has pointed out, Frank “pressured regulators to ease up on their capital requirements

These companies were forced to loan money to people who couldn’t afford it in the interest of “being fair.” Rules were relaxed and money was loaned and predictably low income families defaulted on loans that they never had any business getting in the first place and now you and I have to pay for it.

Another liberal policy and another liberal failure. And now we must all pay for it. But hell, they meant well.


This editorial is largely regurgitated editorials from the Wall Street Journal.
So essentially, it's an opinion piece citing other opinion pieces.
Very telling is the fact that the Wall Street Journal has refused to print any of Frank's counter-responses to their editorials.
As was the case with the Journal, this New Hampshire Union Leader editorial (which, you forgot to mention, is a right wing fishrag) also doesn’t list:

1) Bush insisted that Fannie and Freddie raise the percentage of below-median income homeowner mortgagees that were bought – (which Frank spoke out against)

2) When the Republicans attempted to reform Fannie and Freddie in 2005 (led by Republican Scott Garrettt) they, the GOP, controlled the house. The bill never saw the light of day.

3) Frank and Repub Michael Oxley attempted to regulate Fannie and Freddie in 2005 when the Dems were in the minority. Once more, the bill never passed the Senate.

And these are but a few examples...

As Frank said in the New Yorker:
“I will acknowledge that during the twelve years of Republican rule I was unable to stop them from impeaching Bill Clinton. I was unable to stop them from interfering in Terri Schiavo’s husband’s affairs. I was unable to stop their irresponsible tax cuts, the war in Iraq, and a Patriot Act that did not include civil liberties.”
Yet somehow we’re supposed to buy that he singlehandedly brought about the downfall of Fannie and Freddie?
Sorry, I don’t buy it.
It’s a bogus argument rendered even more bogus by the fact that Fannie and Freddie came late to the subprime party AFTER private institutions, and had nothing to do with exotic derivatives.
I recommend reading the NYTimes article I posted above.
While much of the blame falls on Bush, it chronicles how both parties tried to reform the housing market and failed miserably.
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:29 am

7 Wishes wrote:1. Invading a sovereign nation on false pretenses;
2. Electronic wiretapping without court orders;
3. Violating the Geneva convention;
4. Voter suppression in Ohio;
5. Denying first amendment rights to protesters;
6. Illegally transferring funds from the war in Afghanistan to be used in Iraq;
7. Illegal and secret trade with Iran;
8. Kidnapping and detaining suspects and sending them to illegal prison camps.

What else do you want? I own you.


Yo own nothing...if ANY of these were valid he would have been impeached dumb-ass. think about it.

1) 17 UN violations, had congress approval
2) Say what? Impeachable? HUH
3) They were not soldiers genius...get a clue
4) You mean Acorn in '08...otherwise gimme some proof
5) HUH?
6) BS..prove it
7) BS...prove it
8) Kidnapping people plotting to kill us? You mean protecting the country, the most important job of the President?
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Postby Eric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:31 am

TNC

You dismiss my WSJ stuff, and in return use NYTimes for reference? What the fuck? NYT is a joke...WSJ is reliable.
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Postby 7 Wishes » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:59 pm

Eric wrote:1) 17 UN violations, had congress approval
2) Say what? Impeachable? HUH
3) They were not soldiers genius...get a clue
4) You mean Acorn in '08...otherwise gimme some proof
5) HUH?
6) BS..prove it
7) BS...prove it
8) Kidnapping people plotting to kill us? You mean protecting the country, the most important job of the President?


Lovely O'Reillyian spin there, you dittohead factoid-regurgitator.

1. War was declared BEFORE Congresional approval (and that was only obtained through a deliberate web of outright lies)
2. Absolutely 100% impeachable - he signed off on it
3. Some were, and some were not; either way, it's still illegal, and he signed off on it
4. Ummm...say what? There is irrefutable proof; he also stole the 2000 election
5. Absolutely - anti-war protesters were arrested en masse, and also illegally monitored and arrested by the hundreds
6. Bush signed off on secretly diverting $700 million earmarked for Afghanistan into Iraq
7. Look it up; trade with Iran went from $12 million in 1999 to $150 million in 2007
8. Almost all those detainees have been freed because they were not deemed to be combatants

Also, let's not forget about Scooter Libby and the NIE. That's nine reasons.
But around town, it was well known...when they got home at night
Their fat and psychopathic wives
Would thrash them within inches of their lives!
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:55 pm

Eric wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote: As predicted, you got nothin.
By the way, lending to financially unsound demographics expanded under Bush, not shrank.
It was part of his and Rove's vision to try and draw hispanics into the GOP tent.


You say "ive got nothing" and then you throw lies like this out? The only people trying to play games like this is that piece of shit Emanuel and Bobama by taking over the Census from the Commerce Department. This is nothing but a devious attempt to fudge population numbers to affect future elections.


From 2000, to 2008, the electoral map changed in favor of the GOP. Red states picked up more EV's and blue states lost more ev's. LOL, who would have thunkit- that 9 red states are now blue.

Fucking shameful this Administration is.


How so? I would love to hear your reasons of a shameful Administration.


Out of the blocks, definite stumbles. No shame at all. No hiding, lying, backstabbing. Obama is a smart man. He will get it right. The GOP is doing everything they can now, to disrupt Obama and his White House, because they know if he gets anything done the way he wants, it adios GOP lawmakers.

Obama "won" on the Stimulus deal. Good.
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Postby Rockindeano » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:03 pm

7 Wishes wrote:
1. War was declared BEFORE Congresional approval (and that was only obtained through a deliberate web of outright lies)


I believe that is correct. Funny thing is, the War was planned by Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rummy during the Clinton Administration.

I hope they recall Rove back to testify under oath and also prosecute those motherfuckers regarding torture. Obama was willing and ready to move on, but I hope somehow he gets a splinter up his ass and takes the heat to those corrupt sonsofbitches.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:34 am

Fact Finder wrote:Well what do you know, that poor homeless woman from Os Town Hall the other day isn't all she appears to be it seems.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29177195/

Thursday Tonya Johnson, Director of We Care Ministry, says she has offered Hughes assistance in the past - even a place to live - and she didn’t take it.

“We’ve offered her help. We have assisted her and if she’s been living out of her car - it’s only by choice,” said Johnson.




Yes, but she DID recently accept a place to live, right?
Maybe not from this particular minsitry, but last I heard she did take up someone else's offer.
Her impassioned plea to Obama is a case study in the power of cult of personality.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
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