DC Extended Universe THREAD

Off Topic Babble. The really important stuff...

Moderator: Andrew

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:29 pm

"GREEN LANTERN CORPS" ENLISTS KYLE RAYNER; "THE FLASH" CASTING THESE 5 CHARACTERS
http://www.comicbookresources.com/artic ... characters
User avatar
YoungJRNYfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:55 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:RT audience score settled at 68% with a 3.7/5 rating. Not bad for a site like RT who panned the movie. Besides, we all know sites like IMdB is a more accurate barometer when it comes down to how fans or audiences rank films. IMdB ranks Batman V Superman at 72% with a 7.2/10 rating with 50,000+ more users who ranked the film compared to RT. With DC being darker and much broodier, it's not perfect but at the same time, no matter what you say, people are looking forward to the DCEU. Wonder Woman got people talking and the Flash's warning has people debating what is happening. Mission accomplished. It's all good.


Wow, when 70% is seen as "not bad", that really says it all. Complete denial that the movie sucks.
User avatar
Monker
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9392
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:35 am

Monker wrote:
YoungJRNYfan wrote: Wow, when 70% is seen as "not bad", that really says it all. Complete denial that the movie sucks.


It may read as 68%, but the rating is 3.7/5. If you're rounding up, that's close to 4/5 (we all know RT system of Rotten to Fresh is jacked up.) So what's so "bad" about that?

Your reply would hold more weight if you weren't a hater (or actually see the movies.) Lets look at compiling IMdB's other superhero movies (current Universe's) ratings and compare:

The Avengers: 8.1/10
Guardians of the Galaxy: 8.1/10
Iron Man: 7.9/10
Captain America: Winter Soldier: 7.8/10
Avengers: Age of Ultron: 7.5/10
-------------------
Ant-Man: 7.4
Iron Man 3: 7.3/10
Man of Steel: 7.2/10
Batman V Superman: 7.2/10

Thor: The Dark World: 7.1/10
Iron man 2: 7.0/10
Thor: 7.0/10
Captain America: The First Avenger: 6.8/10
The Incredible Hulk- 6.8/10

Going by your logic used with IMdB's rankings (which is a great barometer for movie fans) 7/12 Marvel movies are "bad." :lol: Man of Steel and Batman V Superman (two movies that got destroyed by critics and reviews) are only a few points, give or take, behind Marvel's heavy hitters within their franchise (ranked by fans and actual viewers.) Five movies in the untouchable Marvel brand are below MoS and BvS. By your logic, what does it make those movies? :lol:

Maybe Man of Steel and Batman V Superman aren't as bad as you're making it out to be. OR, maybe more than half of Marvel's movies aren't as GOOD as you make them out to be.

Even as a big fan of the DCEU, I outright admit where DC's wrongdoing's can turn some people or the audience off and that's okay with me. It's actually pretty easy to pick out. Any fans of MoS or BvS will admit the films faults. But not once did any of you Marvelites ever question or admit some of the things Marvel may be doing that may have lost some fans along the way (and they have; not every movie is good. Every film has its flaws.) Which brings up the question: Who REALLY is in denial? :lol:
User avatar
YoungJRNYfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby RedWingFan » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:42 am

We could also go by first week box office drop off too, but trust me you don't want to do that. Lol. DC's box office drops Reminds me of the old cheech and chong Christmas skit. "Man, her cookies were so good, I could almost eat one"
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
User avatar
RedWingFan
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 7674
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:37 pm
Location: The Peoples Republic of Michigan

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:40 am

verslibre wrote:I predict when RDJ is done, they won't recast that role for years, because the next guy will have a hard act to follow. Though they have no idea what the comics Tony is like (nor do they care), audiences will regard it the same had they tried to recast "Dirty" Harry Callahan, i.e. not well at all.


RDJ had to fight to get chosen for the part. He wasn't an A-lister at the time. The big draw was the movie itself. Marvel may wait a few years, but I think they would have no problem recasting the role. In several interviews, Kevin Feige has already said that the plan is to re-cast Iron Man just like James Bond.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12394
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:47 am

RedWingFan wrote:Nobody in the theater gave 2 shits that Superman "died" at the end. There's no emotional attachment to the guy after 2 movies.


Superman spends most of BvsS acting aloof and pensive. Plus, he plays second banana to Affleck's Batman. So his sacrifice just doesn't resonate in any way. Nobody is rooting for Cavill's dour goth version of Superman. He's simply, just, 'there.'
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12394
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:54 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:Even as a big fan of the DCEU, I outright admit where DC's wrongdoing's can turn some people or the audience off and that's okay with me. It's actually pretty easy to pick out. Any fans of MoS or BvS will admit the films faults. But not once did any of you Marvelites ever question or admit some of the things Marvel may be doing that may have lost some fans along the way (and they have; not every movie is good. Every film has its flaws.) Which brings up the question: Who REALLY is in denial? :lol:


You are not admitting anything.

People who went to see BvS were not going in expecting to see Ant-man or Guardians of the Galaxy. They were expecting this dark and brooding "war" between Batman and Superman set in a TDK meets MOS sorta world. Anybody who paid ANY attention or watch ANY trailer, or saw ANY poster knew what to expect. Instead of getting what they expected, they got a mash up of crap with 45mins of decent actions.

People didn't like it because it was "dark", they didn't like it because it sucked.

I said right up front that I had absolutely no interest in seeing Ant-Man because the entire concept sounds stupid. I have not gone on and on defending Iron Man 2 or 3, or Thor:TDW. I think you guys are way too critical of them, even compared to your own rankings at times, However, Marvel has not ignored 10,000 years of storytelling and gone and tried to reinvent it and completely screwed up a movie in the process...BvS deserves the critique it received from critics, and fans. It's a BAD MOVIE....not simply filled with lame jokes and dialogue. Snyder showed how horrible of a story teller he really is, and frankly, DC should replace him before he gets too far into Justice League.
User avatar
Monker
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9392
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:58 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:"GREEN LANTERN CORPS" ENLISTS KYLE RAYNER; "THE FLASH" CASTING THESE 5 CHARACTERS
http://www.comicbookresources.com/artic ... characters


So, you guys are actually excited that Green Lantern is going to be kind of "buddy" film?
User avatar
Monker
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9392
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:04 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:Nobody in the theater gave 2 shits that Superman "died" at the end. There's no emotional attachment to the guy after 2 movies.


Superman spends most of BvsS acting aloof and pensive. Plus, he plays second banana to Affleck's Batman. So his sacrifice just doesn't resonate in any way. Nobody is rooting for Cavill's dour goth version of Superman. He's simply, just, 'there.'


What Snyder tried to do, according to YJ, is to make this a 'tragedy". The problem is, yet again, there was not enough time to put together enough story to get you to really care about Superman BEFORE all of the "false god" crap starts being shoved on him. I spose you are just sposed to care about him because, hey, he's Superman.
User avatar
Monker
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9392
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:57 pm

Monker wrote:I spose you are just sposed to care about him because, hey, he's Superman.


Yup. And it doesn't work because we've have one film, Man of Steel, which is essentially Superman Begins, and another, BvsS, which is busy and all over the place. This is a Superman that wearily puts his tights on one leg at a time as he debates a mid-life career change. Doomsday simply put him out of his misery.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12394
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:29 am

RedWingFan wrote:We could also go by first week box office drop off too, but trust me you don't want to do that. Lol. DC's box office drops Reminds me of the old cheech and chong Christmas skit. "Man, her cookies were so good, I could almost eat one"


The drops are big and most action blockbusters are always frontloaded, but that's no indication if a person liked a movie or not. There's so many factors in BO receipts that are impossible to pin-point. Getting a movie to a billion dollars (as we've established before) comes down to repeat viewings with a mixture of people who are on the fence with a movie via critics and reviews. Batman V Superman (at the moment) is over $850+WW. $850+ isn't anything to moan or sneeze about. It's about as solid of a settling number a studio can hang their disappointing hats on over a movie that was WRECKED by the critics. The expectations are ginormous with DC films (arguably with the bar set twice as high than Marvel films) and though Man of Steel was also a divisive movie with fans and the critics alike, that didn't matter because the people still showed up opening weekend in the midst of the all-things-negative attitude and a lot of people ended up disagreeing with the critics and some did. As I said before, the movie is very easy to pick apart as to why families wouldn't, say, take their kids to see this over and over again. The elements in place are geared towards a more mature audience with a different set of unorthodox rules the director was keen on establishing. To some, it could be off-putting and the movie raised more questions than answers. If people showed up in droves opening weekend, then they certainly will continue so and hopefully by that point, films like JL will be an awesome movie with a better percentage intangibles for the movie to be repeatable by the casual viewer.
User avatar
YoungJRNYfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:42 am

Monker wrote: So, you guys are actually excited that Green Lantern is going to be kind of "buddy" film?


That's a ways down the road, and everything surrounding that project is rumor at best, so it's all speculation. Are you familiar with Green Lantern? Do you know that there isn't just ONE Green Lantern? And did you know the team of Green Lantern (The Green Lantern Corps) consists of fun/funny personalities like Hal Jordan (why do you think Ryan Reynolds was cast in the first one?) and characters like Guy Gardner? Considering the Lanterns operate as intergalactic cops in each of their respective sectors in the known galaxy ontop of having multiple personalities operating AS Green Lanterns in their own establishment, it makes sense to see them interact in some sort of "buddy" way if you understood the characters that are rumored to be used in 'Green Lantern Corps'.It's almost like Lethal Weapon meets Star Wars. Green Lantern Corps has big potential.
User avatar
YoungJRNYfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:09 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:We could also go by first week box office drop off too, but trust me you don't want to do that. Lol. DC's box office drops Reminds me of the old cheech and chong Christmas skit. "Man, her cookies were so good, I could almost eat one"


The drops are big and most action blockbusters are always frontloaded, but that's no indication if a person liked a movie or not. There's so many factors in BO receipts that are impossible to pin-point.


Let's keep it real. Batman vs. Superman is a divisive movie in the same way as Phantom Menace. It's just not a very good movie. DC Fans would make it seem that critics panned the movie because of some sort of bias. But that's the equivalent of saying Battlefield Earth was trashed because of Scientology. Separated from any DC vs Marvel baggage, Batman vs Supes is just a massive creative failure. DC can't wait for the Affleck Batman film to rush into production. Everything that was said on this forum since Man of Steel fizzled has come true. There will be no MOS sequel and the entire DC universe is now being ret-conned into a Bat-centric universe. The only purpose Man of Steel served was to extend and protect Warner's intellectual property rights to the Supes character. Studios have done the same thing with low rent cheapie sequels to Hellraiser and Children of the Corn over the years. Only those didn't cost nearly 300 million dollars.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12394
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:24 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote: Superman spends most of BvsS acting aloof and pensive. Plus, he plays second banana to Affleck's Batman. So his sacrifice just doesn't resonate in any way. Nobody is rooting for Cavill's dour goth version of Superman. He's simply, just, 'there.'



Yup. And it doesn't work because we've have one film, Man of Steel, which is essentially Superman Begins, and another, BvsS, which is busy and all over the place. This is a Superman that wearily puts his tights on one leg at a time as he debates a mid-life career change. Doomsday simply put him out of his misery.


You bring up some interesting points, but I think they are misleading in what Snyder is actually doing with Superman that are going right over people's heads, and that's fine because we are so use to Superman being told only one way.


In some universe's or movies, "death" is usually the payoff after a great buildup of character. Here, Superman is built up (like you say) as a conflicted hero trying to do the right thing, but in a "gothic"(?) type of way as he "puts his tights on one leg at a time" because the world around him simply doesn't "care" for him. That's the point. If this "world" doesn't care for him, why should we(the audience?)

His "death" isn't the payoff or what's at stake for Superman in this world. His death is simply his rebirth in many ways. You say Doomsday puts Superman out of his misery, but that's not what is manipulatig the audience to "like" Superman. The audience see's this Superman as broken, "aloof" and in misery, so how awesome is it going to be to see Superman come back to cheers, smiles and tears from the same ones who doubted him or questioned his importance? That's the point.

Beloved characters go through the arc of being loved and we feel that MISERY and pain when they perish. For Superman in this universe, we first see him go through pain and self agony FIRST, only to see the real payoff be his rebirth and how the world will finally accept him. That's what Superman, as a character, comes down to and that's when he's at his best: when the world believes in him. His sacrifice in BvS made the world BELIEVE in him ("If you seek his monument, look around you.") Kal never see's it. The payoff for Superman in this universe isn't us "caring" if he "dies" or not. It's building to see him...happy and for him to be happy, the world needs to accept him and that's the classic Superman everybody knows and loves. I can't wait to see it.
User avatar
YoungJRNYfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby Monker » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:42 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:
Monker wrote: So, you guys are actually excited that Green Lantern is going to be kind of "buddy" film?


That's a ways down the road, and everything surrounding that project is rumor at best, so it's all speculation. Are you familiar with Green Lantern? Do you know that there isn't just ONE Green Lantern? And did you know the team of Green Lantern (The Green Lantern Corps) consists of fun/funny personalities like Hal Jordan (why do you think Ryan Reynolds was cast in the first one?) and characters like Guy Gardner? Considering the Lanterns operate as intergalactic cops in each of their respective sectors in the known galaxy ontop of having multiple personalities operating AS Green Lanterns in their own establishment, it makes sense to see them interact in some sort of "buddy" way if you understood the characters that are rumored to be used in 'Green Lantern Corps'.It's almost like Lethal Weapon meets Star Wars. Green Lantern Corps has big potential.


Stop it with all of the "Comic Book speak". Talking of this being a "buddy film" is just weird. What is this going to be? Miami Vice in space? Do you even hear what you are saying, "Lethal Weapon meets Star Wars?" That's just dumb....unless it's a sequel to Spaceballs, and it's going to parady both scifi and comic book films...then I'm all in. Just because there is a Green Lantern corp, and Hal Jordon was not Earth's secotor's only Lantern does not mean making Green Lantern into some type of space cop buddy team is anything other than lame at best.

What DC does is just bizarre.
User avatar
Monker
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9392
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:48 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote: Batman vs Supes is just a massive creative failure.


I don't buy that for a second. If Batman V Superman is a massive creative failure, then you can't turn around and say how DC can't wait for an Affleck lead solo film to rush into production because Affleck's Batman IS a creative product of Batman V Superman. Not only is he a product of Batman V Superman, but so is the reasoning and stories behind Suicide Squad and films taking off like Wonder Woman. There is nothing they can retcon.

There will be no MOS sequel

Pump the breaks. Lets wait and find out. Charles Roven and Snyder already said they are placing Supe's solo on their board and Snyder said they never announced a Super solo to allow the events in BvS play out first. I would bet Superman gets his solo either after JL1 or immediately after JL2. in

..now being ret-conned into a Bat-centric universe.


Batman was always going to be a huge part in this Universe. It's a Justice League Universe. This Batman is back and inspired because of Superman. We don't know how this is going to shake out. For all we know, this could be just as Wonder Woman drivin' than it is Superman or Batman driven. The Trinity is a huge property explored in itself. WB won't let that go to waste.
User avatar
YoungJRNYfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby Monker » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:05 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:You bring up some interesting points, but I think they are misleading in what Snyder is actually doing with Superman that are going right over people's heads, and that's fine because we are so use to Superman being told only one way.


If it went over people's heads, then the story telling FAILED. Do you not see that you are making excuses?

In some universe's or movies, "death" is usually the payoff after a great buildup of character. Here, Superman is built up (like you say) as a conflicted hero trying to do the right thing, but in a "gothic"(?) type of way as he "puts his tights on one leg at a time" because the world around him simply doesn't "care" for him. That's the point. If this "world" doesn't care for him, why should we(the audience?)


You are just wrong. He is not 'built up' as anything. That part of the story telling FAILED. That is the point. If the world doesn't care for him, and the audience doesn't care for him...then cut him from the movie because there is no point in having him there anyway...and there is definitely no point in a death scene.

His "death" isn't the payoff or what's at stake for Superman in this world. His death is simply his rebirth in many ways. You say Doomsday puts Superman out of his misery, but that's not what is manipulatig the audience to "like" Superman. The audience see's this Superman as broken, "aloof" and in misery, so how awesome is it going to be to see Superman come back to cheers, smiles and tears from the same ones who doubted him or questioned his importance? That's the point.


But, as you say above, the audience doesn't care if he is broken or not, in 'misery' or not. He's just sorta going through the motions until he has to fight Batman and then Doomsday. Everything prior to that was a mess that people just don't connect to because of bad story telling.

Beloved characters go through the arc of being loved and we feel that MISERY and pain when they perish.


But, before they go through any of that, the audience has to connect with them and relate to them on their own level. Jesus was a ordinary carpenter before he went through his suffering and then nailed to a cross and was ressurected. Superman comes in saving people from terrorists and Clark jumps into the tub with his girl. This character came in unrelatable. Even Bruce comes in witnessing the city being destroyed and acting in a human and relatable way. Wonder Woman comes in as Diane. Superman/Clark didn't and therefore everything about the character arc was missed...and his death was pointless.
User avatar
Monker
Digital Audio Tape
 
Posts: 9392
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:40 pm
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:44 am

Monker wrote:
YoungJRNYfan wrote:
Monker wrote: Stop it with all of the "Comic Book speak".


No reason to stop "comic book speak" when talking about comic book movies. I know it's uncomfortable for you to recognize since you have no idea about any of these characters to rationalize or compare to. Instead, all you really want to do is argue the merits of a movie that isn't even close to being made yet. Haters will always find new reasons to hate. You make it look easy.
User avatar
YoungJRNYfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby verslibre » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:12 am

Monker wrote:Wow, when 70% is seen as "not bad", that really says it all. Complete denial that the movie sucks.


Have you patented the recipe for your Weaksauce® ? :lol:

Back in grammar school when I first learned about numbers and percentages, we were shown that something like "7/10" reads "7 out of 10," or in this case, 7 out of 10 people like the movie. Which is more than half, if you're into fractions.

The "beloved" Ant-Man: 7.4/10 (based on 272K user ratings) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478970/?ref_=nv_sr_1

You'll notice a few Marvel movies have settled into comparable scores:

Iron Man 2: 7.0/10 (based on 503K user ratings) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1228705/?ref_=nv_sr_3

Thor: 7.0/10 (based on 513K user ratings) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800369/?ref_=nv_sr_3

Even the billion dollar-grossing Iron Man 3 is at 7.3 – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1300854/?ref_=nv_sr_2

Not everything sits at 8.5 (or higher), or, in the case of The Dark Knight, 9.0 (based on 1.6M ratings): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/?ref_=nv_sr_1

IMO, IMDb is a far better source to gauge what people like than RT.
"Heer's ta swimmen wid bowlegged wimmen!"
User avatar
verslibre
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4999
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:55 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby verslibre » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:18 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
verslibre wrote:I predict when RDJ is done, they won't recast that role for years, because the next guy will have a hard act to follow. Though they have no idea what the comics Tony is like (nor do they care), audiences will regard it the same had they tried to recast "Dirty" Harry Callahan, i.e. not well at all.


RDJ had to fight to get chosen for the part. He wasn't an A-lister at the time. The big draw was the movie itself. Marvel may wait a few years, but I think they would have no problem recasting the role. In several interviews, Kevin Feige has already said that the plan is to re-cast Iron Man just like James Bond.


Actually, Favreau fought to get him in there. They're buddies. The studio didn't want RDJ. He was regarded as a burnout at that point. His is one of the biggest Hollywood comebacks ever. I think Ryan Reynolds may get a taste of that now, thanks to Deadpool. Studios weren't exactly beating down his door to sign him to new movie. RDJ has said the same, too, but just because you recast somebody doesn't mean the audience will bite.
"Heer's ta swimmen wid bowlegged wimmen!"
User avatar
verslibre
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4999
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:55 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:24 am

Monker wrote:If it went over people's heads, then the story telling FAILED. Do you not see that you are making excuses


I don't need to make excuses over interpretation. Pity it bothers you so much. Audience's aren't slaves. Storytelling isn't always straight forward and part of the experience is debating things, especially when a platform is being used to a major storyline yet to take shape. TNC brought up that people didn't buy into Clark's death. I debated they didn't because his buildup in this universe was never meant to be his death, but rather his rebirth. "If you seek his monument, look around you." That's foreshadowing a world in acceptance of Superman. Now the question is, how are they going to bring him back? Whether you like it or not, people are interested in the right things with the DCEU, bad movie or not.


He is not 'built up' as anything.


He isn't? Then how did TNC come up with his statements? You can't come up with those things if there was no buildup.

If the world doesn't care for him, and the audience doesn't care for him...


The audiences care about Superman. The proof is in the response to how this Superman is being written. They aren't accepting it because they care about a Superman that's more happy and inspiring. There's hidden messages in Man of Steel and BvS that briefly undermines that, but the world around that element isn't allowing it to come to fruition. That's the point.

and there is definitely no point in a death scene.


We'll see if there's more to this in Justice League. Superman is going to be in the movie, so his death is going to be evident and a driving force going forward. The point of Superman's death is not only going to be the effect it has on forming the Justice League, but also Superman's current arc himself and what he means to the world. That's a relationship that still needs to be told.



But, as you say above, the audience doesn't care if he is broken or not, in 'misery' or not. He's just sorta going through the motions until he has to fight Batman and then Doomsday.


The movie raise's that question. If this MoS/BvS "world" doesn't care for Superman, then why should the audience? But the audience knows Superman. That's the point. They want to see him rise above. He's an inspiring character. When Superman is being held back from inspiring people and instilling hope, what good is he? He battles through that mentally and it takes its toll on the character. That's not "going through the motions." That's an ignorant statement coming from somebody who either hated the movie and didn't care or somebody who flat out didn't see the film. Superman's character is still evolving and his "death" is simply the next evolution of a world that's moving onward.



Superman comes in saving people from terrorists and Clark jumps into the tub with his girl.


You need to get over this, stretch. It's about as far of a reach as you can go.

Even Bruce comes in witnessing the city being destroyed and acting in a human and relatable way.


This is true.

Wonder Woman comes in as Diane.


This is true.

Superman/Clark didn't and therefore everything about the character arc was missed


The little tidbit of information you yourself provided above on how Bruce is introduced and witnessing Metropolis being destroyed is in reference to a movie called 'Man of Steel.' The very first time we ever see Henry Cavill in character was as Clark Kent. Cavill's first frame was him on a fishing boat, immediately rescuing workers from a blown up oil rig and he even sticks up for a girl being sexually harassed in a bar he bar tends at. Besides, how is SUPERMAN coming in and saving people not relatable to the character? It's what he does. Again, in BvS, Superman is in the middle of his own origin story as BvS is an extension of Man of Steel itself. Nothing much has changed from that world until the end of Batman V Superman. We're entering another link in the saga come Justice League.

...and his death was pointless.


I don't believe it is. That can only be answered later.
User avatar
YoungJRNYfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:37 am

Henry Cavill’s Superman May End Up Having A Very Different Look In Justice League
Image
Image

http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/henr ... ce-league/
User avatar
YoungJRNYfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:44 am

verslibre wrote:Actually, Favreau fought to get him in there. They're buddies. The studio didn't want RDJ. He was regarded as a burnout at that point. His is one of the biggest Hollywood comebacks ever.


And Feige fought for him too. But Downey had to screen test for the part and the head of Marvel, Avi Arad, flat-out did not want him. When was the last time an A-list actor had to screen test? Downey was a risky gamble and he's lucky Marvel picked him - not the other way around. Nobody was chasing Downey down for the role. Iron Man is no different than Batman or Bond and it really matters very little who plays him. The character is larger than any one actor. And if you don't think Marvel believes that, go ask Ed Norton. :wink:
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12394
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby verslibre » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:53 am

Monker wrote:People who went to see BvS were not going in expecting to see Ant-man or Guardians of the Galaxy. They were expecting this dark and brooding "war" between Batman and Superman set in a TDK meets MOS sorta world. Anybody who paid ANY attention or watch ANY trailer, or saw ANY poster knew what to expect. Instead of getting what they expected, they got a mash up of crap with 45mins of decent actions.


That's exactly what we got. We're all familiar with Snyder's style via Watchmen and Man of Steel. At least I am. I can't speak for you. The film isn't perfect but as far as being an intense film, it hit all the notes I expected it to.

Monker wrote:People didn't like it because it was "dark", they didn't like it because it sucked.


Sorry you see everything as black & white. I shall elaborate. As others have echoed across other message boards (that are far larger than this watering hole), the majority of the naysayers are actually the minority, i.e. the fanboys (and a few fangirls, too) in the Web-O-Sphere who bitch and moan ceaselessly about the film. It's the same old "not-my-Superman, Batman-doesn't-kill, but Wonder Woman's rad" bullshit, over and over and over and over and over and over. I've never seen this level of scrutiny for even a completely illogical mess like Iron Man 3, nor the cookie-cutter Age of Ultron. People online want others to believe BvS is another Green Lantern, because they feel if they succeed, everything will automatically reboot and Colgate Superman and "Holy Bat Socks!" Batman will come back, and both will be wearing their old school Underoos.

Dozens of people I've spoken to in "real life" — friends and friends-of-friends, relatives, acquaintances, total strangers — (minus one) have told me they loved or liked BvS. And the one friend who didn't like it as much as she thought felt it was too dense, though she loved all the action (but then, her preferred genre is romance). Many have remarked Cavill is their favorite Superman (the dude certainly is a winner with the ladies) and that the film has the best live action Batman ever. Gadot's Wonder Woman shares an equal if not larger amount of praise, given her limited screen time. But even people online who said they didn't care for BvS (or won't bother going to see it, hence missing out on seeing it in its untethered glory) say they can't wait for the Wonder Woman film.

Monker wrote:I said right up front that I had absolutely no interest in seeing Ant-Man because the entire concept sounds stupid. I have not gone on and on defending Iron Man 2 or 3, or Thor:TDW. I think you guys are way too critical of them, even compared to your own rankings at times, However, Marvel has not ignored 10,000 years of storytelling and gone and tried to reinvent it and completely screwed up a movie in the process...BvS deserves the critique it received from critics, and fans. It's a BAD MOVIE....not simply filled with lame jokes and dialogue. Snyder showed how horrible of a story teller he really is, and frankly, DC should replace him before he gets too far into Justice League.


Wrong. Again. Marvel's left out HUGE chunks of stories and revised others for either of two reasons: they want their movies to retain a family-friendly vibe, and because they don't have all their characters. (Fox has all the mutants and FF characters and their villains.) That's why Stark's not a career alcoholic and the huge standoff between he and his pal Rhodey — which culminated in an incredible battle between Iron Man and War Machine — was whittled down (just like Owen Wilson would whittle it) to a fracas at a cocktail party. That's why we got Ant-Man Mk. II, instead of Hank Pym, the great scientist and original Avenger and eventual wife abuser, and hence that's why Stark's ultimately responsible for Ultron, not Pym. Which is stupid. But audiences didn't care because they want RDJ's sarcasm and action and a big battle. And for all the shit WB gets for "relying on" Batman, that's exactly what Marvel is doing with Iron Man. Or he wouldn't be in this new movie nor the new Spider-Man film.

Other problems still exist. Spider-Man was at a major crossroads in Civil War, but it came years down the line in his career. So somehow Marvel got him from Sony so they could use him in the film. I guarantee you that however they try to replicate "that moment," it's going to come across so cheesetastic due to this Spidey being a rebooted Spidey, I'm going to have to write it off and just enjoy the action. Civil War was never about Bucky. That should have been its own storyline, and Civil War should have been a proper Avengers movie (which it is in all but its name, anyway, thanks to Feige's direction). Other characters, like Daredevil, won't even figure into the film's story because it's the Happy Meal version of the Real Thing. So go enjoy it for the action, not the story (the warehouse scene in BvS won't be topped, I guarantee it). :lol:
"Heer's ta swimmen wid bowlegged wimmen!"
User avatar
verslibre
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4999
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:55 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby verslibre » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:55 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:Henry Cavill’s Superman May End Up Having A Very Different Look In Justice League
Image
Image

http://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/henr ... ce-league/


That's right! I saw the article on Yahoo. Interesting times ahead :!:
"Heer's ta swimmen wid bowlegged wimmen!"
User avatar
verslibre
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4999
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:55 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:58 am

YoungJRNYfan wrote:If Batman V Superman is a massive creative failure, then you can't turn around and say how DC can't wait for an Affleck lead solo film to rush into production because Affleck's Batman IS a creative product of Batman V Superman.


Batman is Batman - period. Obligatory flashback sequences of his parents getting killed, the Batmobile, repartee between Alfred and Wayne in the cave...these are all hallmarks of a franchise that viewers are familiar with. Audiences know the mythology. Batman vs. Superman did not drastically change the Batman character. A little gruffer. A little more battle-hardened. The whole reason WB/DC inserted Batman into a MoS follow-up is because Batman does not need any introduction. It's a license to print money and put asses in seats.

YoungJRNYfan wrote:Pump the breaks. Lets wait and find out. Charles Roven and Snyder already said they are placing Supe's solo on their board and Snyder said they never announced a Super solo to allow the events in BvS play out first. I would bet Superman gets his solo either after JL1 or immediately after JL2.


And if you believe that one, I have some nice waterfront property on Arrakis to sell you. Or better yet, you may also believe that "Augeri's condition is still being closely monitored by his physician to determine when he may be able to rejoin the Journey tour." Wake up and smell the bullshit, man!
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12394
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:01 am

verslibre wrote:
Monker wrote:Wow, when 70% is seen as "not bad", that really says it all. Complete denial that the movie sucks.


Have you patented the recipe for your Weaksauce® ? :lol:

Back in grammar school when I first learned about numbers and percentages, we were shown that something like "7/10" reads "7 out of 10," or in this case, 7 out of 10 people like the movie. Which is more than half, if you're into fractions.

The "beloved" Ant-Man: 7.4/10 (based on 272K user ratings) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478970/?ref_=nv_sr_1

You'll notice a few Marvel movies have settled into comparable scores:

Iron Man 2: 7.0/10 (based on 503K user ratings) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1228705/?ref_=nv_sr_3

Thor: 7.0/10 (based on 513K user ratings) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800369/?ref_=nv_sr_3

Even the billion dollar-grossing Iron Man 3 is at 7.3 – http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1300854/?ref_=nv_sr_2

Not everything sits at 8.5 (or higher), or, in the case of The Dark Knight, 9.0 (based on 1.6M ratings): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/?ref_=nv_sr_1

IMO, IMDb is a far better source to gauge what people like than RT.


Of that list, I would say Thor 1 and Ant Man were better than BvsS. The rest are crap. If anything, BvsS reminded me of Avengers 2. Also a mess.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12394
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:05 am

verslibre wrote:Dozens of people I've spoken to in "real life" — friends and friends-of-friends, relatives, acquaintances, total strangers — (minus one) have told me they loved or liked BvS.


Once a month I stop into my local comic shop and pick up some titles I have placed on hold. The week after BvsS came out, there were 8 people in the shop (include me and the clerk). Of the 8, only three people liked it. In my personal life, 2 friends thought it was a mess. Another 2 really liked it.
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
User avatar
The_Noble_Cause
MP3
 
Posts: 12394
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:14 am
Location: Lake Titicaca

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby YoungJRNYfan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:06 am

It's good to see Marvel being inspired by Batman V Superman:

‘Captain America: Civil War’ Was Made Because Of ‘Batman v Superman’
“There have been 11 or 12 movies so far, all with a fairly traditional structure. Our pitch to them was: People will tell you they love chocolate ice cream — until you give it to them five days a week. It’s time to give them some rainbow sherbet. Kevin [Feige] is a maverick and he’s very sensitive to how people are responding to his content. He said he thought we might be right. And after they announced Batman v. Superman, he said, ‘you guys are absolutely right.’ We needed to do something challenging with the material or we were going to start to lose the audience.”


http://heroichollywood.com/captain-amer ... -superman/

Only problem with that statement, according to what I've read, is how CW ends with 'more of the same.'
User avatar
YoungJRNYfan
Cassette Tape
 
Posts: 2281
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:35 pm

Re: DC Extended Universe THREAD

Postby verslibre » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:10 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
verslibre wrote:Actually, Favreau fought to get him in there. They're buddies. The studio didn't want RDJ. He was regarded as a burnout at that point. His is one of the biggest Hollywood comebacks ever.


And Feige fought for him too. But Downey had to screen test for the part and the head of Marvel, Avi Arad, flat-out did not want him. When was the last time an A-list actor had to screen test? Downey was a risky gamble and he's lucky Marvel picked him - not the other way around. Nobody was chasing Downey down for the role.


You see that name? Same guy who fucked up Spider-Man 3. He made Raimi retool the script to jam Venom in there along with Sandman and NuGoblin.

And yeah, I believe RDJ had to screen test because, as we know, he was no longer A-anything. More like D...for drugs. :lol

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Iron Man is no different than Batman or Bond and it really matters very little who plays him. The character is larger than any one actor. And if you don't think Marvel believes that, go ask Ed Norton. :wink:


It depends on how invested the audience is. If you think nobody's bummed that Bale is no longer Batman, guess again. People really like RDJ's goofy, sarcasm-peddling Stark.

Ed Norton? :lol: That guy's nowhere near what he was. Audiences weren't invested in Bana or Norton. If they replaced Ruffalo tomorrow, I doubt anyone would care, too. Which is too bad. Bana, Norton and Ruff are all good actors. They just have to make a really good Hulk movie, but that's really resonated with audiences. TIH wasn't bad, though (just don't mention Ang's stinker). And most people want to see the Hulk smash, anyway.
"Heer's ta swimmen wid bowlegged wimmen!"
User avatar
verslibre
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4999
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:55 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Death By Stereo

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests