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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:44 am

From Ron Paul editorial in USA today this week...

"There was no al-Qaeda in Iraq before the 2003 U.S. invasion. There was no Islamic State in Syria before President Obama’s covert support for regime change after the 2011 unrest. The massive pipeline of U.S. weapons to “moderate” rebels in Syria ended up in the hands of al-Qaeda affiliated groups and ISIS. Does anyone think that harebrained scheme makes anyone safer?"
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:46 am

Boomchild wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Ponder this, was it just a mere coincidence that as soon as HRC lost the 2016 election that CF shutdown the operation of the "Clinton Global Initiative"? I have talked here about the investigative work on the CF by Charles Ortel. By far he is one, if not the best investigator into the operations of the foundation. I encourage you to look at his work on his website.

http://charlesortel.com/

Also remember that the Clinton's claimed that at the end of BC's term as POTUS they were "flat dead broke". So since then were did all their wealth come from? Sometimes it best to just use the old adage "follow the money".


What Bernie Madoff did to people made me angry but didn't effect me personally. What I've just read on http://charlesortel.com/ make me feel sick because I voted for Bill Clinton and respected him as a president.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:40 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:From Ron Paul editorial in USA today this week...

"There was no al-Qaeda in Iraq before the 2003 U.S. invasion. There was no Islamic State in Syria before President Obama’s covert support for regime change after the 2011 unrest. The massive pipeline of U.S. weapons to “moderate” rebels in Syria ended up in the hands of al-Qaeda affiliated groups and ISIS. Does anyone think that harebrained scheme makes anyone safer?"


Not me, and there was the Fast and Furious fiasco. Oh and let us not forget that the weapons that Al Qaeda had in Afghanistan had been provided by Bill Clinton for the Afghanis to fight Russia. We could also go back and dig up Iran Contra and the subsequent CIA involvement in cocaine trafficking to fund the Contra rebels.

Who among them has any right to question Trump's methods?
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Boomchild » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:43 am

ohsherrie wrote:
What Bernie Madoff did to people made me angry but didn't effect me personally. What I've just read on http://charlesortel.com/ make me feel sick because I voted for Bill Clinton and respected him as a president.


What the Clintons have done with their "foundation" make what Madoff did look like child's play. It is sickening. Perhaps with the new investigations into the CF something will be done. We'll see. A lot of people are in fear of the Clintons. You never know if you are going to be a victim of Arkancide.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Boomchild » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:47 am

ohsherrie wrote:
Not me, and there was the Fast and Furious fiasco. Oh and let us not forget that the weapons that Al Qaeda had in Afghanistan had been provided by Bill Clinton for the Afghanis to fight Russia. We could also go back and dig up Iran Contra and the subsequent CIA involvement in cocaine trafficking to fund the Contra rebels.

Who among them has any right to question Trump's methods?


And people wonder why the U.S. has been unable to "win the war" on illegal drugs.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Boomchild » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:38 am

Things that make you go Hmmm.......

Image
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Boomchild » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:31 pm

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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:05 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Boomchild wrote:Things that make you go Hmmm.......

Image


Yep, that dude gets around, and I'm not speaking of McCain.


Before the Syrian Emergency Task Force, Moustafa was the Executive Director of the Libyan Council of North America, which like the SETF existed to help push regime change. Before that, he mentions working with "rebels" in Egypt. On his Twitter feed, he denounces the overthrow of Morsi making it rather clear which side he was on.

Predating his international period, Mouaz Moustafa did stints as a Field Organizer for the Democratic National Committee and a senate staffer. On Instagram, he calls himself a Freelance Revolutionary.


So he just runs around the Middle East stirring up trouble. I can't help wondering what ties he may still have to the senate and/or DNC.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:10 am

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:This would be a great start.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/04 ... ommittees/


I agree.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:43 am

I have to ask again if you're really that naive or have you been reading revisionist history? My grandparents were farmers in Iowa and my mother, aunt, and uncles picked the produce for sale to canneries and markets in Council Bluffs and Glenwood. My father worked as a maintenance worker on farms in Iowa. They weren't too good for that work. They never asked for a government handout. I have a younger cousin who started working as a farm hand in high school and after graduating stayed on doing the job because he liked it. He took night and Internet classes and is now making a good living doing on that farm. Do you think hard work has no dignity.


And, I have to ask you if you even read my post. I said, "Also, corporate farming is much, much more common today than it once was..."

Small family farms, as you describe above, are no where near as common as they were even 25yrs ago. Large farms are FAR more common, the last I knew it was around 75% of all farms. At that size, a family can NOT do ALL of the work. So, they contract out the work.

When I talk about building America I'm not necessarily talking about the physical construction, but many immigrants who were here to become Americans, not just here illegally or on a work visas, did a lot of that.


Now you are trying to get into people's heads and deciding who is/was here to become a citizen and who wasn't/isn't. I don't believe Mexicans are treated any better than say the Irish fleeing the potato famine. They take the shit jobs because that is what is avaiable. The first generation probably don't get citizenship because it can take decades...but, their children and grandchildren do. IMO, if it were 1850, you would be making these exact same arguments - except you would be talking about the Irish instead of Mexicans.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:53 am

Boomchild wrote:Since the subject has been brought up that in the past most farming work was performed by slaves, there is this information on it.

Less than 5% of the whites in the South owned slaves. Fully 3/4's of the white people of the South had neither slaves nor an immediate economic interest in the maintenance of slavery or the plantation system.

This was written by none other than the late John Hope Franklin in From Slavery to Freedom, McGraw-Hill, 1994., p. 123. Franklin was a Harvard educated Professor Emeritus of History and Professor of Legal History at Duke University. Dr. Franklin also happened to be a Black man.


And, that is a very misleading statistic since this is a percentage of ALL whites, whether they had any "need" for a slave or not. What percentage of large farms or plantations had slaves - regardless of race? THAT would be a statistic that would have meaning in the context of this discussion.

It seems to me the argument being made here is coming from the position of entitlement. That people should only have to work at jobs they really want to do and if that is not possible then they should be entitled to public assistance.


No, that is NOT the position I am taking.

I am saying it is wrong for goverment to control a business decistion on who to legally hire as an employee. I am saying it is wrong for government to force a person to work in these type of jobs. This is basically communism and I doubt such policies would hold up in court.

You are setting up a situation where an employer is hiring people they don't want, and employees are forced into jobs they don't want. it's a HORRIBLE idea.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:02 am

ohsherrie wrote:Thank you again Boomchild. There is a huge difference between the immigrants who settled this country, the ones who came here later through Ellis Island dreaming of becoming Americans and what we have today whether coming as hoards of refugees or sneaking across the borders.


I say you are completely wrong. The Irish were talked about and treated in the exact same way you are talking about Mexicans. Look it up anywhere. This is the first Google search I clicked...and it is so ironic:

https://www.history.com/news/when-america-despised-the-irish-the-19th-centurys-refugee-crisis

"The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists. And, worst of all, these undesirables were Irish."


You are viewing history through tinted glasses and you see only what you want to see.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:11 am

Boomchild wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Not me, and there was the Fast and Furious fiasco. Oh and let us not forget that the weapons that Al Qaeda had in Afghanistan had been provided by Bill Clinton for the Afghanis to fight Russia. We could also go back and dig up Iran Contra and the subsequent CIA involvement in cocaine trafficking to fund the Contra rebels.

Who among them has any right to question Trump's methods?


And people wonder why the U.S. has been unable to "win the war" on illegal drugs.


Having a "war" against "drugs" is stupid anyway.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:08 am

Monker wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:Thank you again Boomchild. There is a huge difference between the immigrants who settled this country, the ones who came here later through Ellis Island dreaming of becoming Americans and what we have today whether coming as hoards of refugees or sneaking across the borders.


I say you are completely wrong. The Irish were talked about and treated in the exact same way you are talking about Mexicans. Look it up anywhere. This is the first Google search I clicked...and it is so ironic:

https://www.history.com/news/when-america-despised-the-irish-the-19th-centurys-refugee-crisis

"The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists. And, worst of all, these undesirables were Irish."


You are viewing history through tinted glasses and you see only what you want to see.


I've seen that website. Of course it pops up, it got really popular when the History Channel ran that series, which was right about the time President Trump caused controversy about wanting to keep the Mexican illigals from bringing their drugs and crime to this country. No big revelation there and of course the History Channel has never dramatized anything. :roll:
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:44 am

Monker wrote:
Boomchild wrote:Since the subject has been brought up that in the past most farming work was performed by slaves, there is this information on it.

Less than 5% of the whites in the South owned slaves. Fully 3/4's of the white people of the South had neither slaves nor an immediate economic interest in the maintenance of slavery or the plantation system.

This was written by none other than the late John Hope Franklin in From Slavery to Freedom, McGraw-Hill, 1994., p. 123. Franklin was a Harvard educated Professor Emeritus of History and Professor of Legal History at Duke University. Dr. Franklin also happened to be a Black man.


And, that is a very misleading statistic since this is a percentage of ALL whites, whether they had any "need" for a slave or not. What percentage of large farms or plantations had slaves - regardless of race? THAT would be a statistic that would have meaning in the context of this discussion.

It seems to me the argument being made here is coming from the position of entitlement. That people should only have to work at jobs they really want to do and if that is not possible then they should be entitled to public assistance.


No, that is NOT the position I am taking.

I am saying it is wrong for goverment to control a business decistion on who to legally hire as an employee. I am saying it is wrong for government to force a person to work in these type of jobs. This is basically communism and I doubt such policies would hold up in court.

You are setting up a situation where an employer is hiring people they don't want, and employees are forced into jobs they don't want. it's a HORRIBLE idea.


So you dispute Boomchild's statistics while you're ignorant enough to think all of the hard farming work in this country was done by slaves? Do you really think all of the farmers who settled the bread basket of America, the great midwest, had slaves to do their work for them?

Do you realize how absurd it sounds for you to say nobody should have to do a job they don't want to do? When NAFTA put millions of factory workers in this country out of jobs do you think they had a choice about where to go to work? They had families to feed, clothe and educate and had to take whatever jobs they could find. Many lost their homes and had to use all of the money they had saved for whatever purpose to supplement the $10 - $15 an hour jobs they were able to find. Some eventually had to completely lose their self respect and ask for help to keep their families fed. But you don't think these people who have been freeloading off the government for generations should have to do a job they don't want? What kind of marshmallow world do you live in?

Nobody in this country is entitled to have whatever they want. They are entitled to what they earn, nothing more.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby verslibre » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:55 am

ohsherrie wrote:Nobody in this country is entitled to have whatever they want. They are entitled to what they earn, nothing more.


Time for you to send a singing telegram to Casa Trump.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby verslibre » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:06 am

Wow. Cohen's offices AND hotel room raided. They must have sniffed something.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:22 am

Monker wrote:
I have to ask again if you're really that naive or have you been reading revisionist history? My grandparents were farmers in Iowa and my mother, aunt, and uncles picked the produce for sale to canneries and markets in Council Bluffs and Glenwood. My father worked as a maintenance worker on farms in Iowa. They weren't too good for that work. They never asked for a government handout. I have a younger cousin who started working as a farm hand in high school and after graduating stayed on doing the job because he liked it. He took night and Internet classes and is now making a good living doing on that farm. Do you think hard work has no dignity.


And, I have to ask you if you even read my post. I said, "Also, corporate farming is much, much more common today than it once was..."

Small family farms, as you describe above, are no where near as common as they were even 25yrs ago. Large farms are FAR more common, the last I knew it was around 75% of all farms. At that size, a family can NOT do ALL of the work. So, they contract out the work.

When I talk about building America I'm not necessarily talking about the physical construction, but many immigrants who were here to become Americans, not just here illegally or on a work visas, did a lot of that.


Now you are trying to get into people's heads and deciding who is/was here to become a citizen and who wasn't/isn't. I don't believe Mexicans are treated any better than say the Irish fleeing the potato famine. They take the shit jobs because that is what is avaiable. The first generation probably don't get citizenship because it can take decades...but, their children and grandchildren do. IMO, if it were 1850, you would be making these exact same arguments - except you would be talking about the Irish instead of Mexicans.


Nothing you said is relevant to anything that this "disscussion" began about. You just keep picking out the bits you think you can argue with until the entire point is lost.

My point is still that whatever unskilled labor jobs that are available in this country should be available first to the able bodied, working age citizens of this country who are qualified for those jobs before migrant workers are hired. If those citizens CHOOSE not to work they are not ENTITLED to sponge off the tax payers.

I don't care if you want to call it interfering with the way people run their businesses or if you're such a marshmallow that you call honest hard work for an honest day's pay slavery, the point still remains that we have to get our own people out of the welfare cycle and keep immigrants from coming here and starting their own cycles. That's just common sense. I guess that's why it's so hard for you to understand. Now I'm through arguing with you about it.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:54 am

verslibre wrote:Wow. Cohen's offices AND hotel room raided. They must have sniffed something.


FBI is becoming the Democratic gestapo. Shut it down.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:55 am

Fact Finder wrote:Here ya go dude.

http://www.justice.gov/file/1050276/download



Similar Free Speech chilling tactics are also causing Craigslist ads to shut down. This is bullshit. I believe in free speech.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Boomchild » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:59 am

ohsherrie wrote:My point is still that whatever unskilled labor jobs that are available in this country should be available first to the able bodied, working age citizens of this country who are qualified for those jobs before migrant workers are hired. If those citizens CHOOSE not to work they are not ENTITLED to sponge off the tax payers.


It's the job of our government to do what it best for the citizens. Which includes ensuring our borders are secure. So that the government can properly enforce our immigration laws. So that we are in control of how, when and why people are entering this country. It's the governments job to ensure that immigration does not have a negative impact on our economy and the job market for the citizens.The government needs to focus on the needs of the citizens BEFORE the needs of those looking to immigrate to the U.S.. Citizens need to be put to or back to work before making work available to those looking to come here.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Boomchild » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:04 am

It's interesting that Trump mentions making plans to pull out of Syria and next thing you know BOOM a chemical attack happens.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:09 am

Monker wrote:I say you are completely wrong. The Irish were talked about and treated in the exact same way you are talking about Mexicans. Look it up anywhere. This is the first Google search I clicked...and it is so ironic:

https://www.history.com/news/when-america-despised-the-irish-the-19th-centurys-refugee-crisis

"The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists. And, worst of all, these undesirables were Irish."


You are viewing history through tinted glasses and you see only what you want to see.


OhSherrie wrote:I've seen that website. Of course it pops up, it got really popular when the History Channel ran that series, which was right about the time President Trump caused controversy about wanting to keep the Mexican illigals from bringing their drugs and crime to this country. No big revelation there and of course the History Channel has never dramatized anything. :roll:


It's a historical fact that the Irish were treated absolutely horrible from the time of the colonies onward, even into the 1900's. Even JFK had to deal with left-over biases against Irish-Catholics. Think about things...England HATED the Irish. The original colonies were ENGLISH colonies...and therefore also HATED the Irish. They were treated no different than African slaves. They were essentially enslaved to work in coal mins in PA. They could not get any other work because of discrimination against the Irish.

That quote from the History channel reflects exactly the feelings at the time. And, yes, it has "Trump" written all over it. The only reference that wasn't there was gangs. Google "Irish Molly Maguires" to cover that. I suppose you'll even argue that historical fact.

The Irish were hated. Seen as nothing more than disease ridden, drunken brutes. who were the "missing link" between the blacks in Africa and civilized Europeans Blamed for rapes and murders and the lack of jobs for non-Irish. Discriminated against and forced to work in slave conditions in coal mines. Their religious belief (Roman Catholic) was feared because it seemed possible for the Pope to control America if there were enough Irish here. The Mollies were seen as terrorists...although they were fighting for livable/humane conditions in the coal mines and against the tyranny of the coal industry.

So, yes, history repeats itself...how the US thought of and treated the Irish is pretty much exactly how you and Trump want to treat to the Mexicans...with a little Religious/Muslim/terror fear and hatred thrown in.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby verslibre » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:13 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
verslibre wrote:Wow. Cohen's offices AND hotel room raided. They must have sniffed something.


FBI is becoming the Democratic gestapo. Shut it down.


LOL. Maybe it's Iran-Contra Part Deux.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:37 am

ohsherrie wrote:My point is still that whatever unskilled labor jobs that are available in this country should be available first to the able bodied, working age citizens of this country who are qualified for those jobs before migrant workers are hired. If those citizens CHOOSE not to work they are not ENTITLED to sponge off the tax payers.


It is not up to government to to micro-manage business to tell them they must hire these people before those people...and those people MUST take the job. That is wrong. That is what dictatorships do.

if you're such a marshmallow that you call honest hard work for an honest day's pay slavery,


No, I call working in the fields for 12hrs/day or longer for minimum wage and no benefits slavery conditions...not slavery itself, unless the company feels they own their employees.

the point still remains that we have to get our own people out of the welfare cycle and keep immigrants from coming here and starting their own cycles. That's just common sense. I guess that's why it's so hard for you to understand. Now I'm through arguing with you about it.


Again, you can do that by saying as a condition for benefits a person has to have a fulltime job, or be a full time student, or join the national guard, or perform community service. ALL of which benefit both society and the citizen in the ways you want to, without forcing citizens and employers to bend to the federal governments demands.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:41 am

Fact Finder wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
verslibre wrote:Wow. Cohen's offices AND hotel room raided. They must have sniffed something.


FBI is becoming the Democratic gestapo. Shut it down.


I just heard something about Cohen getting $350,000 from some organized crime group in 1999. Trying to track a link down. If so, has nothing to do with POTUS.


Maybe Putin paid Cohen $130,000.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:43 am

Boomchild wrote:Citizens need to be put to or back to work before making work available to those looking to come here.


If a Mexican (or Indian, or Russian, or Bosnian or...) has a work VISA and a company wants to hire him, then government should stay the fuck out of it.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:48 am

verslibre wrote:Wow. Cohen's offices AND hotel room raided. They must have sniffed something.


Maybe they got a tip that Trump kept Stormy's panties.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby tj » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:47 am

Monker wrote:
Boomchild wrote:Citizens need to be put to or back to work before making work available to those looking to come here.


If a Mexican (or Indian, or Russian, or Bosnian or...) has a work VISA and a company wants to hire him, then government should stay the fuck out of it.


The government provides the visa. They're in in already.
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Re: Presidump David Dennison LLC - ONLY Term Thread

Postby Boomchild » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:38 pm

tj wrote:
The government provides the visa. They're in in already.


That's it. They approve or deny them. If that practice is negatively affecting citizens being able to obtain work then the number of them should be decreased or halted.
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