OFFICIAL DC Studios; "DCU" THREAD

[Monker]

But it wasn't a genuine "hit." There was no buzz. It was roundly and soundly rated a so-so movie and its final box office gross is highly suspect, sandwiched between Infinity War and Endgame or not.

LOL....a billion dollar film wasn't a 'hit'. That is hilarious.

Brie Larson has the charisma of a two-by-four. She doesn't own the role the way her predecessors have owned theirs.

Frankly, I don't think it was her fault. The character was SUPPOSED to be holding back her emotions and suppressing who she really was. So, this critique never made sense to me. It is essentially a compliment that she played the character as written.

Did you actually go see that movie? Of course, you did not.

Of course I saw Captain Marvel in the theater. I don't remember how full it was. I was not scanning around looking for empty seats.

Had you, you may have noticed the empty rows of IMAX seats that were suspiciously reserved.

Oh, stop lying and exaggerating things. First of all, I screwed up....they would have to buy 50 million tickets at $10/each to equate to $500 million, to have any impact...and lose tens of millions of dollars in the process. It's just a crazy conspiracy theory that shows how jealous certain people are.

Put on your Sherlock cap, dude. They wrote off that shadow play as "Miscellaneous Expenses."

Yeah, right, they wrote off 500million dollars as "Miscellaneous expenses". That's laughable, ridiculous. Not only is it ridiculous but it would be public knowledge and you would have proof rather than random people saying they saw empty seats.

You think their accounting dept. doesn't get creative when they receive that memo? Wake UP.

Five hundred million dollars is not something accounting can just 'hide'. Ask the Trump family what happens when you do stuff like using "creative accounting'.

What you are suggesting is Marvel and Disney spent $500million dollars on top of the budget and marketing of the movie. Then LOST hundreds of millions of dollars. Wrote off the $500million as EXPENSES to make a film...probably double the budget of the film itself...and kept it secret and avoided a tax audit and the corporation(s) being brought to trial for fraud.

Let's do the math. There are 6,000 movie theaters in the US. The average seating capacity is 600 seats. Let's say it showed on three screens in each theater. That is 6,000 x 600 x 3 = 10,800,000 seats available. At $10/ticket hat is $110 million if they bought EVERY seat available...and it is STILL not even close to the $500 million you need.

It is an absolutely ridiculous concept.

Aquaman, however, was legit. There wasn't an empty seat in the house when I went to see that. The kids in that joint were excited — buzz galore Aquaman kicked Mary Poppins right outta there and did three times the business.[/quote]

So what? That doesn't mean that Captain Marvel did not get to a billion dollars. It's totally unrelated.

I didn't know Aquaman and Mary Poppins were comparable. No wonder he talks to fish. Crazy.

[verslibre]

Julie Andrews voiced — brilliantly — the underwater kaiju Karathen who Aquaman rode into battle versus Orm and his legions.

The shills told WB they had to move Aquaman or face total defeat at the box office by Mary Poppins Returns. (How'd that turn out?)

Five years later, and the sequel to a billion dollar-grossing blockbuster won't make half what the first did because of the delays and perpetual too-many-cooks stranglehold WB's management keeps their IPs in. Way to go, morons. Way to go.

How do we get THIS and NOT get the next film / chapter / episode / installment...!!!???

[Monker]

Julie Andrews voiced — brilliantly — the underwater kaiju Karathen who Aquaman rode into battle versus Orm and his legions.

The shills told WB they had to move Aquaman or face total defeat at the box office by Mary Poppins Returns. (How'd that turn out?)

Oh, yeah, I remember that being mentioned now. I don't think I ever commented on it because I just don't care. Here's the thing; if you talked to the people who were in each of those theaters seeing their movie, I doubt hardly any of them cared. And, I am sure even fewer care about it today.

Five years later, and the sequel to a billion dollar-grossing blockbuster won't make half what the first did because of the delays and perpetual too-many-cooks stranglehold WB's management keeps their IPs in. Way to go, morons. Way to go.

First, I have not seen any projections. You seem to be making up the numbers. But, if you are right, it will also be because the DCEU has no future. Momoa as Aquaman has no future. This film will connect to nothing in the future of DC. Also, there are not enough Snyder fans to save it. So, just like Shazam, and Flash, and Blue Beetle, there is no real reason to see it. In addition to that, CBM's are no where near as popular as they were five years ago. Guardians 3 was the biggest CBM hit this year...but it is more of a Space Opera than a CBM anyway and crosses over to that scifi fanbase. Other than that, there has not been a huge DC or Marvel hit in over a year. Aquaman has a LOT of things going against it, regardless of how good the movie actually is.

Guaranteeing it as a billion dollar film was foolish.

[verslibre]

Guaranteeing it as a billion dollar film was foolish.

What are you referring to, Smithers? The Aquaman sequel? Did you even read what I wrote? If the film came out well before The Flash, it'd been a guaranteed moneymaker.

"Momoa as Aquaman has no future" — because they pulled the plug, and your boy Gunn had both hands on the cord.

I swear, you and your goalpost musical chairs, man.

[Monker]

Guaranteeing it as a billion dollar film was foolish.

What are you referring to, Smithers? The Aquaman sequel? Did you even read what I wrote? If the film came out well before The Flash, it'd been a guaranteed moneymaker.

Guaranteeing ANYTHING like that is foolish. If Aquaman and Flash had swapped dates, or if Aquaman would have been released prior to Black Adam and Gunn taking over, you don't know how it would have been received, and it is alternate history in some other branch of the multiverse . And, as South Park said, multiverses suck. You are inventing a reality that doesn't exist to try to prove a point that can't be proven.

"Momoa as Aquaman has no future" — because they pulled the plug, and your boy Gunn had both hands on the cord.

Correct. Momoa as Aquaman has no future. So, why see it? Why not wait to support Momoa in the role he really wants, as Lobo? Are you going to guarantee Lobo as a billion dollar film?

I swear, you and your goalpost musical chairs, man.

Not moving any goalpost...I've been repeating the same thing since Black Adam failed and Gunn took over. All of these DCEU films should have been cancelled...all of them lost money.

[verslibre]

What are you referring to, Smithers? The Aquaman sequel? Did you even read what I wrote? If the film came out well before The Flash, it'd been a guaranteed moneymaker.

Guaranteeing ANYTHING like that is foolish. If Aquaman and Flash had swapped dates, or if Aquaman would have been released prior to Black Adam and Gunn taking over, you don't know how it would have been received, and it is alternate history in some other branch of the multiverse .

Yet, you talk like you know things, when you don't. You said The Marvels is doing as well critically as you expected. It's not. It's being hammered. RT is a joke, and you know it. RT is an aggregator and all it takes are a bunch of phony accounts to manipulate the overall score for any film. RT is not an accurate gauge of receipt for anything. The Marvels is being trashed right, left and right again. Some of the memes out there are positively hilarious.

And, as South Park said, multiverses suck. You are inventing a reality that doesn't exist to try to prove a point that can't be proven.

Fuck South Park. Multiverses were a mainstay in comics LONG before these things became movies and people like you argued nonstop because you love to hear yourself talk/type.

"Momoa as Aquaman has no future" — because they pulled the plug, and your boy Gunn had both hands on the cord.

Correct. Momoa as Aquaman has no future. So, why see it? Why not wait to support Momoa in the role he really wants, as Lobo? Are you going to guarantee Lobo as a billion dollar film?

No, that's Gunn's plan. Don't revise. That, and Jason didn't have to play Aquaman if he didn't want to. Nobody held a gun to his head.

What you don't understand is that for Lobo to make sense, the Omega Men must be adapted first. That's where Lobo made his first appearance (I read it when it happened back in the '80s, long before he became popular). DC doesn't even have plans for The Omega Men to come to the screen, let alone The Legion, which tells you exactly how screwy things are over there (and now, even worse under Safran, Gunn and Zaslav).

(And I know you'll say you don't care, blah blah, nobody knows who they are, ad nauseum. Save it. Unscrew your mouth from Gunn's cock, already.)

Again, the best thing for DC is to strap a parachute on Gunn and give him the heave-ho and sell the whole shebang to Universal and let Nolan be the co-showrunner. Then maybe these IPs will be treated with a modicum of respect again.

Not moving any goalpost...I've been repeating the same thing since Black Adam failed and Gunn took over. All of these DCEU films should have been cancelled...all of them lost money.

"Since Black Adam failed" — not. It made some money and generated buzz, without the benefit of a Chinese release.

The Flash? Failure. The Marvels? An even bigger failure. one that has Feige and his buds at Disney looking at each other, nervously.

[Monker]

What are you referring to, Smithers? The Aquaman sequel? Did you even read what I wrote? If the film came out well before The Flash, it'd been a guaranteed moneymaker.

Guaranteeing ANYTHING like that is foolish. If Aquaman and Flash had swapped dates, or if Aquaman would have been released prior to Black Adam and Gunn taking over, you don't know how it would have been received, and it is alternate history in some other branch of the multiverse .

Yet, you talk like you know things, when you don't.

I *KNOW* it is foolish to guarantee something that isn't going to happen until years in the future. You guys miscalculated at least twice. Once with WW84 and now with Aquaman. Both were guaranteed in this forum to be billion dollar films. WW84 was FAR from a billion dollar film. It seems Aquaman isn't going to make it either.

You said The Marvels is doing as well critically as you expected. It's not. It's being hammered.

What I said is it is getting mixed reviews. RT has the critics score at 83...which is what other recent Marvel films have had. It is not getting 'hammered' as you say. Examples of the other side are Grace gave it a positive review. Voss from New Rockstars gave it a positive review. And, there are others. Some people like the humor, some don't. Some people like Flerkins, some don't. And, yeah, it's about what I expected.

RT is a joke, and you know it. RT is an aggregator and all it takes are a bunch of phony accounts to manipulate the overall score for any film.

That is true, for the audience score. It is much harder to manipulate the critics score. It can be done with pressure, free gifts and such...but it is no where near as easy. Which is why I compare it with recent Marvel films. I posted the audience score with a FWIW after it...for the very reasons you post above.

The Marvels is being trashed right, left and right again. Some of the memes out there are positively hilarious.

Yeah, it is being trolled, as I expected that to happen too. Love Stephen King's response to that, “Some of the rejection of ‘The Marvels’ may be adolescent fanboy hate. You know, ‘Yuck! GIRLS!'”

In other words, a bunch of whiney immature baby's who can't deal with three women starring in a movie! LOL

Fuck South Park. Multiverses were a mainstay in comics LONG before these things became movies and people like you argued nonstop because you love to hear yourself talk/type.

South Park was not talking about the comics, but the movies directly...and more specifically towards Marvel. The simple fact is that everybody is getting tired of the multiverse aspect of recent films. EVERY film has the multiverse in it, including Flash. The movie going public is tired of it and South Park pointed that out. It resonated with people and added to this backlash against CBM's and Disney (put a chick in it and make her gay and gender swapping and "representation"). You don't have to like South Park, but it is undeniable that they nailed it.

No, that's Gunn's plan. Don't revise. That, and Jason didn't have to play Aquaman if he didn't want to. Nobody held a gun to his head.

I am not saying he didn't want to play Aquaman. I am saying he has always wanted to play Lobo and so have many fans. Gunn is giving everybody this.

What you don't understand is that for Lobo to make sense, the Omega Men must be adapted first.

Not true. Lobo made perfect sense in Krypton. Towards the end, he was obviously one of the best things the series did.

Again, the best thing for DC is to strap a parachute on Gunn and give him the heave-ho and sell the whole shebang to Universal and let Nolan be the co-showrunner. Then maybe these IPs will be treated with a modicum of respect again.

LOL....nobody wants to run DC. They are lucky they even got Gunn. I doubt very much that Nolan wants anything to do with the DC mess.

"Since Black Adam failed" — not. It made some money and generated buzz, without the benefit of a Chinese release.

Dude, it didn't even cross 500million. As I have said, WB needs HUGE HITS...films that make hundreds of millions of dollars. They don't need films that are barely profitable and make tens of millions. MUCH more was expected from Black Adam, and it failed...and Dwayne, Cavill, and all the Snyder cast are out of DC because of it.

The Flash? Failure. The Marvels? An even bigger failure. one that has Feige and his buds at Disney looking at each other, nervously.

I don't think Feige is nervous. IMO, they all knew the Marvels was not going to make it but had to release it anyway. So, now they are going to pivot to something else to get out of the multiverse ASAP. Lucky they don't have many releases next year so they have time to start looking towards XMen and Fantastic 4, and maybe getting rid of Kang. Who knows...but I doubt very much the current path will continue. At the same time, Loki was awesome so who knows where that will influence things.

[verslibre]

...and Dwayne, Cavill, and all the Snyder cast are out of DC because of it.

Nonsense. They lied. Cavill was never back in. They lied to him, and they lied to us to try to put asses in seats. With China, it would've crossed 500M, easily. The Marvels won't even do that.

I don't think Feige is nervous. IMO, they all knew the Marvels was not going to make it but had to release it anyway.

Nonsense.

[Monker]

...and Dwayne, Cavill, and all the Snyder cast are out of DC because of it.

Nonsense. They lied. Cavill was never back in. They lied to him, and they lied to us to try to put asses in seats.

Of course. It was common sense that if Black Adam failed to be a huge hit that Cavill and Dwayne were never coming back. This was OBVIOUS from the start and I tried to tell you all that. IMO, Dwayne's big mouth and trying to rally fan support was the final nail in the coffins. If I were any type of exec at WB, I would have been pissed at both of them for Dwayne trying to dictate studio business. If BA was a huge hit, things would be different right now.

With China, it would've crossed 500M, easily. The Marvels won't even do that.

Yeah, so? The Marvels was never going to be a big hit. One controversial star and two relative unknowns in a mediocre plot of a movie was never going to do well. I knew that when it was announced. There is nothing here that I am disagreeing about.

I don't think Feige is nervous. IMO, they all knew the Marvels was not going to make it but had to release it anyway.

Nonsense.[/quote]

No, it's not. There is no way Feige is out of a job. If anything he will have MORE control of Marvel's output,. They will pivot, make some changes for their future plans. And, that will be about it. They don't care about a bunch of childish memes. They care about $'s. The public has voted with their $'s that Marvel's current direction sucks...The Marvels is just the climax of that....very bad timing for an all female Marvel comedy to be released.

[verslibre]

...and Dwayne, Cavill, and all the Snyder cast are out of DC because of it.

Nonsense. They lied. Cavill was never back in. They lied to him, and they lied to us to try to put asses in seats.

Of course. It was common sense that if Black Adam failed to be a huge hit that Cavill and Dwayne were never coming back. This was OBVIOUS from the start and I tried to tell you all that. IMO, Dwayne's big mouth and trying to rally fan support was the final nail in the coffins. If I were any type of exec at WB, I would have been pissed at both of them for Dwayne trying to dictate studio business. If BA was a huge hit, things would be different right now.

There you go again, acting like you knew what was going to happen, when you didn't. Cavill thought he was back and said so. He made an Instagram post. He again donned the suit for the Black Adam post-credits scene. Audiences were thrilled. The scene drew applause in major markets like New York (if you don't believe me, you knew who to ask).

The truth came out afterward. Black Adam opened with the pandemic still ongoing to a respectable 67 million. It finished shy of 400 million worldwide — again, without China.

‘Black Adam’ wins a star-powered box office weekend

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/23/media/bl ... index.html

Yeah, so? The Marvels was never going to be a big hit. One controversial star and two relative unknowns in a mediocre plot of a movie was never going to do well. I knew that when it was announced. There is nothing here that I am disagreeing about.

Brie doesn't own the role. Nobody's excited to see her. It is what it is. But I've always thought they should've skipped Captain Marvel and gone straight to Binary so that Monica Rambeau could be the only Captain Marvel.

There is no way Feige is out of a job. If anything he will have MORE control of Marvel's output,. They will pivot, make some changes for their future plans. And, that will be about it. They don't care about a bunch of childish memes. They care about $'s. The public has voted with their $'s that Marvel's current direction sucks...The Marvels is just the climax of that....very bad timing for an all female Marvel comedy to be released.

Who said he's out of a job? That's just you reaching. They still have stockholders to appease and however which way you cut it, it's not a good result. The Marvels' production budget was 75 million more than Black Adam's, not including marketing. It's a major bomb.

They need to stop making comedy superhero films, period.

[Monker]

There you go again, acting like you knew what was going to happen, when you didn't.

Of course I knew. I argued repeatedly here that there would be no Black Adam 2. There would be no MOS2. There would be no BAvSM. It was never going to happen because BA failed to be a big money maker. It failed despite Dwayne's public charades. It failed despite the Superman cameo. After BA's barely profitable status it was OBVIOUS to me that Dwayne's plans had no possibility of coming true...because WB was/is in HUGE debt and they do not need a string of less than mediocre performing films like Black Adam. If BA had twice as much gross as it did, then things would be different. They would be foolish to let that franchise go...instead they would be foolish to keep it.

Cavill thought he was back and said so. He made an Instagram post. He again donned the suit for the Black Adam post-credits scene. Audiences were thrilled. The scene drew applause in major markets like New York (if you don't believe me, you knew who to ask).

None of that matters as much as the $'s for WB that it did NOT generate. Why would WB care about ANY of the above when the BA FILM failed to sell as a big blockbuster should. Even after you posted this and the article about the rumored "contract" link, I STILL argued that it would not happen...because it makes absolutely no sense that it would.

The truth came out afterward. Black Adam opened with the pandemic still ongoing to a respectable 67 million. It finished shy of 400 million worldwide — again, without China.

The pandemic was barely affecting things in late 2022. Movies like WW84, Dune, Black Widow in 2020/2021 were affected by it. Multiverse of Madness was released Summer of 2022 and it doubled what Black Adam grossed - and it was not released in China either.

WB wants to make money. Excuses do not make money. Selling seats makes money...and BA did not do enough of that to warrant any type of franchise spawning off of it. WB doesn't care about when and where it was or not released...They are a company in huge debt that needs money....and BA was nothing but a big fart out of Dwayne's mouth.

Brie doesn't own the role. Nobody's excited to see her.

I have already said that in different ways, multiple times. Captain Marvel and Brie are nothing but controversy. They needed a film to END that, not continue it.

But I've always thought they should've skipped Captain Marvel and gone straight to Binary so that Monica Rambeau could be the only Captain Marvel.

Or, they could do the Rogue story right, introduce the X-Men that way, and create contrasting characters between Carol and Rogue in the same way that Iron Man and Cap did. Pairing a bunch of characters that basically get along; Carol's best friend's daughter, and a kid who idolizes Carol, is not nearly as interesting as Rogue having a conflict with Carol and walking away with part of her powers...and being a part of the rival X-Men instead of the Avengers. THAT would be interesting...and set up a long lasting dynamic for future X-Men teaming with the Avengers movies - THAT could be as big as the Infinity saga.

Who said he's out of a job? That's just you reaching.

Then they don't have anything to be nervous about. Bob Igor is the one who has to face stockholders, not Feige.

The Marvels' production budget was 75 million more than Black Adam's, not including marketing. It's a major bomb.

Correct. Black Adam was a major bomb...and I'm not saying The Marvels isn't. You keep acting like I am. It just doesn't matter nearly as much as DC bombs do because WB NEEDS CASH to pay its debt. I'm sure Disney doesn't like all the negative press they have had to endure this year. But, Marvel has had Guardians 3 as the biggest CBM this year, and Loki was an awesome success..and Quantumania had major issues, but it didn't 'bomb' and made money.

They need to stop making comedy superhero films, period.

Unless you include the Guardians Holiday Special....which was awesome,The Marvels is the only comedy they have released since the second Antman film, and that is not even a "comedy" in the way The Marvels seems to try to be.

[verslibre]

The Marvels has been out a week and the hits (articles, vlogs, tweets, you name it) keep rolling like stones downhill!

Then they don't have anything to be nervous about. Bob Igor is the one who has to face stockholders, not Feige.

Your timing couldn't be better. This is fresh out the oven!


Disney CEO: Recent Marvel output not "up to the standards that we set for ourselves"

At least folk like Disney CEO Bob Iger are acknowledging that something needs to change. "[A]t the time the pandemic hit, we were leaning into a huge increase in how much we were making and I've always felt that quantity can be actually a negative when it comes to quality," he said on a recent earnings call, according to The Hollywood Reporter. "And I think that's exactly what happened. We lost some focus."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/d ... 2138&ei=11

[verslibre]

WB wants to make money. Excuses do not make money. Selling seats makes money...and BA did not do enough of that to warrant any type of franchise spawning off of it. WB doesn't care about when and where it was or not released...They are a company in huge debt that needs money....and BA was nothing but a big fart out of Dwayne's mouth.

Things you purposely continue to gloss over:

~ WB delaying production on Black Adam for years — yes, years, not months!

~ WB delaying promoting Black Adams for months!

~ WB already having drawn the ire of the DCEU fan base!

~ WB's showrunners actually wanting the film to fail, because Dwayne Johnson repeatedly rebuffed their asking him if he'd like to play any other character but Black Adam, when they knew he did NOT!

~ Last, but not least, Gunny was onboard a bit earlier than initially reported, drawing up his plan for a series of films that has nothing to do with the DCEU's films, foundation or actors...

Yeah, WB pissed everyone off plenty. Well, The Suicide Squad bombed, The Flash bombed and Blue Beetle bombed. They decided to shelve Batgirl a year ago when they could've released it this year. Zaslav just tried to write off another movie but it's going to be shopped.

Oh, yeah, speaking of The Suicide Squad, why wasn't that a hit? Shouldn't whathisname be able to guarantee a hit? I can't wait to hear your excuse. (Pandemic?) It didn't even gross back its production budget. That should've been the litmus test.

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/tt6334354/

[Monker]

WB wants to make money. Excuses do not make money. Selling seats makes money...and BA did not do enough of that to warrant any type of franchise spawning off of it. WB doesn't care about when and where it was or not released...They are a company in huge debt that needs money....and BA was nothing but a big fart out of Dwayne's mouth.

Things you purposely continue to gloss over:

~ WB delaying production on Black Adam for years — yes, years, not months!

~ WB delaying promoting Black Adams for months!

~ WB already having drawn the ire of the DCEU fan base!

~ WB's showrunners actually wanting the film to fail, because Dwayne Johnson repeatedly rebuffed their asking him if he'd like to play any other character but Black Adam, when they knew he did NOT!

~ Last, but not least, Gunny was onboard a bit earlier than initially reported, drawing up his plan for a series of films that has nothing to do with the DCEU's films, foundation or actors...

NONE of this matters. WB is not in the game to LOSE MONEY. THAT is what had been happening. BA *BARELY* made a profit. There was NO WAY they would have continued down that path. PERIOD.

Yeah, WB pissed everyone off plenty. Well, The Suicide Squad bombed, The Flash bombed and Blue Beetle bombed. They decided to shelve Batgirl a year ago when they could've released it this year. Zaslav just tried to write off another movie but it's going to be shopped.

Yeah, and NONE of those movies should have been released, including The Suicide Squad. Releasing Batgirl would have been inexcusably STUPID. It would have done just as bad, if not worse, than everything else. All of these films should have been written off and never seen. In the end, that would have helped WB more than releasing them.

Oh, yeah, speaking of The Suicide Squad, why wasn't that a hit? Shouldn't whathisname be able to guarantee a hit? I can't wait to hear your excuse. (Pandemic?) It didn't even gross back its production budget. That should've been the litmus test.

It wasn't a hit because it was not a good movie. It was just as stupid as the first one. It's one lame gag after another that adds up to nothing. I couldn't even watch the whole thing because I thought it was so bad. You make it seem like I am a huge Gunn fan. I already told you that the only thing Gunn has released that I like are the Guardians movies.

As for a "litmus test'. I disagree. They are lucky to have Gunn...DC is so far in the shit that I doubt anybody else really wants his job at this point. And, I'm not going to judge it before I see what Gunn does.

[verslibre]

NONE of this matters. WB is not in the game to LOSE MONEY. THAT is what had been happening. BA *BARELY* made a profit. There was NO WAY they would have continued down that path. PERIOD.

Again, talking like you know things that you don't. If WB didn't want to diminish interest in their cinematic CBM universe / multiverse / omniverse, they should've refrained from making false promises and spinning bullshit narratives. The Flash should've been a hit. It wasn't.

Everything WB is doing is costing them. That's my point. For reasons, you miss it.

[Monker]

NONE of this matters. WB is not in the game to LOSE MONEY. THAT is what had been happening. BA *BARELY* made a profit. There was NO WAY they would have continued down that path. PERIOD.

Again, talking like you know things that you don't. If WB didn't want to diminish interest in their cinematic CBM universe / multiverse / omniverse, they should've refrained from making false promises and spinning bullshit narratives. The Flash should've been a hit. It wasn't.

Everything WB is doing is costing them. That's my point. For reasons, you miss it.

You are assuming things. Where is your proof that the PROMISES WB has broken has diminished interest, or had any significant negative affect at all? Where is your evidence that the hundreds of millions of people who saw these recent films even know that these promises were made? IMO, only a small fraction know about it, and an even smaller fraction care.

Yes, the DCEU is taking a 'hit' in interest...the DCU has nothing to gauge it on. But, so has Marvel's MCU. As South Park so plainly pointed out...Multiverses SUCK. So, there is a general lack of interest in movies that dive into it for both CBM companies. There is also a general CBM burnout happening, IMO, and it is also affecting both DC and Marvel. Finally, the CBMs have generally been of lower quality, IMO. Black Adam was barely watchable for me. Shazam 2 was mediocre at best. I have not seen Flash or Blue Beetle, or The Marvels. So, that doesn't help things either. Then there is the fact that the DCEU is ending so seeing these films is pointless anyway. You will only know how bad things are for DC when Gunn's Superman movie is released....and we'll know about the MCU when Deadpool 3 is released

BOTH the Marvel and DC have been struggling lately...the reason for that is beyond DC's perceived broke promises.

[verslibre]

Where is your proof that the PROMISES WB has broken has diminished interest (...)

Are you for real? As if you didn't already know, [I just said that] the most recent batch of movies, not including Black Adam, bombed, and the Aquaman sequel probably won't do that well.

What other proof do you need? You're trying to delineate this huge berth between the DCEU and DCU and then you're pretending there's no connection, when in fact it's all connected. WB keeps pulling the rug out, keeps meddling, keeps delaying, keeps backpedaling — you name it. It's costing them. WB/DC needs to get sold to Universal. There really is nothing more to say about this, is there?

[Monker]

Where is your proof that the PROMISES WB has broken has diminished interest (...)

Are you for real? As if you didn't already know, [I just said that] the most recent batch of movies, not including Black Adam, bombed, and the Aquaman sequel probably won't do that well.

And, you specifically said in an earlier post that they lied to Cavill and they lied to "us" regarding his promised return as Superman. How do you know that is a reason all these moved have "bombed"?

What you are saying is like saying that Santa is real because he ate the cookies you left out for him....as if there can't be another explanation for them to be gone, ie: there can't be another reason why the movies bombed...it has to be broken promises.

As I have said, those movies were mediocre at best - including Black Adam. The interest in CBM's is lower. The biggest issue, IMO, is that the DCEU is done. So, no I do not believe that that broken promises is why those movies failed. In fact, I would say it is only a very small part because people like you are a very small portion of the audience. A few thousand people on CBM forums do not account for the hundreds of millions who see these films.

WB keeps pulling the rug out, keeps meddling, keeps delaying, keeps backpedaling — you name it. It's costing them.

Maybe, maybe not. But, that hardly means these movies are guaranteed to fail. Guardians 3 had to suffer through Gunn's firing, being delayed from being the first movie in the current phase to being in the middle of it, then Gunn being rehired, Gunn doing multiple films and series for DC and being hired to head the DCU, then Gunn's vision for Gamora was tampered with in End Game by killing her off causing her story and relationship to Star-Munch to be reimagined....and yet it STILL ended up being a huge hit...and, IMO, the best Marvel movie since End Game.

Also, I would not consider these things as "promises" being broken. It's just what happens when making a movie. As I have said, almost EVERY Marvel movie has last minute changes and reshoots and delays, etc. Those things are NOT an excuse for releasing a mediocre movie that nobody cares to see.

WB/DC needs to get sold to Universal. There really is nothing more to say about this, is there?

Who owns and controls WB is not the problem. You guys said the same about Hamada...that things would be different under him. What needs to happen is they just need to start making great movies instead of mediocre crap. DC has had this issue almost from the START of the DCEU, but they have slithered by because CBM's were such an "in" thing...that's not going to fly any longer...ask Marvel.

[verslibre]

Where is your proof that the PROMISES WB has broken has diminished interest (...)

Are you for real? As if you didn't already know, [I just said that] the most recent batch of movies, not including Black Adam, bombed, and the Aquaman sequel probably won't do that well.

And, you specifically said in an earlier post that they lied to Cavill and they lied to "us" regarding his promised return as Superman. How do you know that is a reason all these moved have "bombed"?

And I've said before that the continuation of the Justice League arc was paramount to interest and buzz (that word again). Cavill's return got people excited. The sequel to Man of Steel wasn't merely anticipated, it was expected. WB wanted people to feel that way. They kept on shuffling the deck. The buzz felt during Superman's return in Black Adam (not a fake-out with a different guy from the neck down this time) was palpable.

Ben Affleck returned, after he said he wouldn't, for scenes in the Aquaman sequel. Batman had a sizeable role in the film, and those scenes have all been removed and the film has been recut multiple times, just like The Flash.

Regardless of WW84's reception, people wanted and want a third standalone Wonder Woman film. Gal was given the brush-off, then she wasn't, then she seemed to officially be bought out of her contract. Either way, it's money left on the table, as with a Superman movie featuring Brainiac as the antagonist.

Ben's unproduced solo Batman film? An easy billion left right on the table by WB, simply because it concerns the DCEU's Batman.

I'm not sure why I have to keep spelling all this out for you.

What you are saying is like saying that Santa is real because he ate the cookies you left out for him....as if there can't be another explanation for them to be gone, ie: there can't be another reason why the movies bombed...it has to be broken promises.

See above, wise guy. You're the one insisting let's wait and see how the DCU turns out. Sure. Let's. There's no buzz out there. Nobody's more excited for Swamp Thing's return in a feature film than me, but they did dismantle the series after just one season, and it was doing well.

As I have said, those movies were mediocre at best - including Black Adam. The interest in CBM's is lower. The biggest issue, IMO, is that the DCEU is done. So, no I do not believe that that broken promises is why those movies failed. In fact, I would say it is only a very small part because people like you are a very small portion of the audience. A few thousand people on CBM forums do not account for the hundreds of millions who see these films.

You really do miss the big picture. Before Twitter became X and people started jumping off it due to the toxicity, there were thousands of people tweeting DAILY about the DCEU. If the DCEU or Zack or Gal or Henry or Batman/Ben started trending, then we're going into the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of messages — in such instances, try a "few" thousand messages per hour, dude. That's not even factoring in Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and Reddit. You forget all the fans in Europe and South America who aren't on these "CBM forums" you allude to.

A fandom of a "few thousand" more aptly describes the following carried by Firefly or any of those second-rate and third-rate SF shows you love.

Also, I would not consider these things as "promises" being broken. It's just what happens when making a movie. As I have said, almost EVERY Marvel movie has last minute changes and reshoots and delays, etc. Those things are NOT an excuse for releasing a mediocre movie that nobody cares to see.

It's undeniable that reshoots and recuts can deeply affect tone and narrative. Ezra's issues didn't help, but reshot scenes and VFX do-overs lent parts of The Flash a very Josstice League sheen, which wasn't good. The opening action scene was cringey. The VFX looked bad. Batman's new suit and his dialogue were cringey. Wonder Woman's cameos in The Flash & Fury of the Gods were silly. You're saying the movies are mediocre — you can chalk up the mediocrity to the writing. Where is your PROOF that that isn't why these movies aren't being well-received? Compare Josstice League to Zack Snyder's Justice League. Need more? Compare Batman and Robin to Batman Begins. Compare Superman Returns to Man of Steel. When the writing is good, people appreciate it. If the tone of the films shifts closer to Superfriends, turnouts will be paltry.

(But then, I'm not sure I trust your inbuilt sense of quality control. I recall you defending GGVOL2 when I said it sucked.)

You can walk this convo to the pin drop-silent Marvel thread. See if anyone engages you there. Meanwhile, The Marvels is being lowered into the ground. Its non-performance is one for the history books.

Again: Universal.

[Monker]

And I've said before that the continuation of the Justice League arc was paramount to interest and buzz (that word again). Cavill's return got people excited. The sequel to Man of Steel wasn't merely anticipated, it was expected. WB wanted people to feel that way. They kept on shuffling the deck. The buzz felt during Superman's return in Black Adam (not a fake-out with a different guy from the neck down this time) was palpable.

So what. Not enough of these people showed up to Black Adam. Period. If that "buzz" is not transfered into $'s WB DOESN'T CARE. WB didn't want people to just be excited - they NEED them to spend their damn money and BUY TICKETS.

Ben Affleck returned, after he said he wouldn't, for scenes in the Aquaman sequel. Batman had a sizeable role in the film, and those scenes have all been removed and the film has been recut multiple times, just like The Flash.

So what. Afleck is not part of the DCU. It is up to the writers to make that change. Deal with it. Aquaman 2 is probably going to fail because the trailers look lame and the DCEU is OVER. THAT is why it will fail...not because Batman is not part of it.

Regardless of WW84's reception, people wanted and want a third standalone Wonder Woman film. Gal was given the brush-off, then she wasn't, then she seemed to officially be bought out of her contract. Either way, it's money left on the table, as with a Superman movie featuring Brainiac as the antagonist.

Just as WW84 caused this forum to eat its words of "billion dollars", there is NO guarantee that a WW3 would do any better. It's silly to prophesize these things. It's fiction. You are simply making up conclusions for things that you have no idea would have worked out.

Ben's unproduced solo Batman film? An easy billion left right on the table by WB, simply because it concerns the DCEU's Batman.

A billion dollars is NOT easy regardless of the film.

I'm not sure why I have to keep spelling all this out for you.

Because you are writing a fictional narrative of things that you have NO CLUE would really turn out. You WANT to believe something so you write a fictional account of how that would happen.

See above, wise guy. You're the one insisting let's wait and see how the DCU turns out.

I am CONSISTANTLY saying that you can't prejudge how something is going to turn out...you have to wait until it happens. And, if it NEVER happens, you don't know and never will.

You really do miss the big picture. Before Twitter became X and people started jumping off it due to the toxicity, there were thousands of people tweeting DAILY about the DCEU. If the DCEU or Zack or Gal or Henry or Batman/Ben started trending, then we're going into the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of messages — in such instances, try a "few" thousand messages per hour, dude. That's not even factoring in Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and Reddit. You forget all the fans in Europe and South America who aren't on these "CBM forums" you allude to.

There could be 250,000 people online contributing to this - and there isn't that many. That STILL pales in comparison to the hundreds of MILLIONS of people who buy tickets. All of your "online buzz" means absolutely NOTHING. They need to BUY THE TICKET. THAT is what matters

A fandom of a "few thousand" more aptly describes the following carried by Firefly or any of those second-rate and third-rate SF shows you love.

Firefly is not a second rate show...it is one of the top rated scifi shows of all time...that is a fact.

It's undeniable that reshoots and recuts can deeply affect tone and narrative. Ezra's issues didn't help, but reshot scenes and VFX do-overs lent parts of The Flash a very Josstice League sheen, which wasn't good. The opening action scene was cringey. The VFX looked bad. Batman's new suit and his dialogue were cringey. Wonder Woman's cameos in The Flash & Fury of the Gods were silly. You're saying the movies are mediocre — you can chalk up the mediocrity to the writing.

I attribute to DC'/WB inability to adjust to an overall vision of the universe. That is how it has been FROM THE BEGINNING and it has always been one of Marvel's strengths. ALL of Marvel's films go through such things and MOST end up being hits...including End Game.

Where is your PROOF that that isn't why these movies aren't being well-received? Compare Josstice League to Zack Snyder's Justice League. Need more?

Yes, because JS:JL had generally positive reviews but many I saw and read said that if you are not a huge Snyderverse fan or hugely into CBM, you don't need to see it. That it has a weird ending with Joker, that it creates story lines for other films that will never be made and are really a waste of time. It is generally better but not "must see" better. Even Angry Joe, who is a huge Superman fan and defender of MOS, admitted most people would not care if they saw it or not. In the end, this "Snyder Cut" was made to get more HBOMax subscribers - and it failed to do that.

Compare Batman and Robin to Batman Begins.

Why? Even in DC canon they are not part of the same universe. It's a dumb comparison.

Compare Superman Returns to Man of Steel.

Funny, in the Nostalgia Critic/Angry Joe skit, they make the observation that BvS basically stole the creation of the bad buy from Superman Returns. Bad writing? LOL.

But, I do not consider ANY of those three films "good writing".

When the writing is good, people appreciate it. If the tone of the films shifts closer to Superfriends, turnouts will be paltry.

Ah, I understand why people turn out for the Transformer movies now. It's all that great writing.

Look, I have no argument against you calling the writing of DC films "bad"...most of it is, dating back to BvS...and even some MOS.

(But then, I'm not sure I trust your inbuilt sense of quality control. I recall you defending GGVOL2 when I said it sucked.)

Sure, when you start talking about WHY you think it "sucks", yeah, I think you are off.

Meanwhile, The Marvels is being lowered into the ground. Its non-performance is one for the history books.

I think it's funny that you keep bringing it up....I don't disagree with you.

Again: Universal.

it's not the answer. If Universal DOES buy WB, they should order Gunn to put everything on hold for AT LEAST three years to put more distance between the DCU and DCEU and maybe get the public to miss these characters again. DC is nothing but a clusterfuck right now. Maybe taking a it away for a while will put people into withdrawal and be willing to give it a chance rather than writing it off before the films are even released.

[verslibre]

"So what," blah, blah, blah...

"So what," blah, blah, blah...

Same ol' song and dance, my friends!

I could fire off another post overstuffed with counters, but I don't care.

However, I WILL point out that it has been reported that WB's stock has lost HALF its value since Zaslav took over

Make of that what you will.

(Another funny tidbit: Iger threw The Marvels' director under the bus! Way to go, dude!)

Restore the Snyderverse!

[jestor92]

I didn’t care about the Justice League after Snyder left because the Justice League movie was terrible and Batman vs Superman wasn’t much better.

That said after I saw the Justice League Snyder cut it got me excited and disappointed it wasn’t continuing.

[verslibre]

That said after I saw the Justice League Snyder cut it got me excited and disappointed it wasn’t continuing.

We all are, bud. Except Monker.

[Monker]

That said after I saw the Justice League Snyder cut it got me excited and disappointed it wasn’t continuing.

We all are, bud. Except Monker.

I recognized after seeing BvS and how horrible it was and that Snyder's vision was not good. After his departure and debacle with Justice League, I knew WB did not want to continue with the direction Snyder wanted and he would not be returning to continue playing in the sandbox. So, no, I did not get excited nor disappointed with JS:JL because I knew it was a ruse to get Snyder fans to signup for HBOMax and the people in charge of the theatrical movies wanted nothing to do with him. And, I never looked at statues, took things Snyder said on weird tangents, or any other bazaar "clues" of his return. When Gunn was hired, I thought he would put an end to those "hopes". Instead, he chooses to disappoint you at every turn, but still allow a thread of 'hope' for whoever wants to cling to it.

[verslibre]

Instead, he chooses to disappoint you at every turn

The man who would start filming Justice League Part Two if he got the call is the one who "chooses to disappoint" us at "every turn"?

Sounds like you're describing Gunn.

[Monker]

Instead, he chooses to disappoint you at every turn

The man who would start filming Justice League Part Two if he got the call is the one who "chooses to disappoint" us at "every turn"?

Sounds like you're describing Gunn.

That is exactly who I am talking about. I wish GUNN would have vocally axed everything prior to when he took over and made it absolutely clear it was over and he was starting completely over.

Instead:
He "fires" each Snyderverse actor one by one but in a way that leaves open the possibility of them returning sometime in the future.

He "fires" Patty Jenkins from WW3 but in a way that makes it seem that WW3 could still happen under a different director. At that time, I don't think he had even fired Gal yet.

He "fires" Gal then gets into a word exchange over his comments with Gal but instead of saying he fired her and her time as WW is over, he just says that he did not recall the conversation she is talking about. There was no need to pacify anybody...she is gone.

He misfires and calls Flash the greatest super hero movie ever made, instead of keeping his mouth shut and letting it fail without his endorsement or critique.

He misfires and says Blue Beetle is the first DCU movie. Then goes back and says it is the first CHARACTER for the DCU, but that was not the first movie...whatever that means.

I stopped paying much attention after that because, IMO, he should talk about NOTHING other than HIS Superman movie and other DCU stuff...and not even mention ANYTHING about the DCEU - not the actors (except Lobo), not the old movies, not the old directors...and let them flail in the wind. That time is OVER and he should give attention ONLY to his work. Giving ANY attention to the old stuff only gives people like you "hope".

[verslibre]

Do ya think maybe, just maybe, he lacks integrity?

[Monker]

For all the talk of the Marvel, Aquaman 2 is projected to gross even less. The Marvels will end up with a worldwide gross of about $200 million. Aquaman 2 is projected to be $175 million. This is just a prediction, it could be better....or worse.

[verslibre]

What do you expect? WBD trashed their own house.

The Marvels cost more to make and will still be the bigger bomb.

[Monker]

What do you expect? WBD trashed their own house.

The Marvels cost more to make and will still be the bigger bomb.

I expect that when a film is guaranteed to be a billion dollar film that it is admitted that it is a flop.

I expect that when another film makes $200 million box office and you call it a bomb and critique is repeatedly that you can make those exact same critiques of a film that is projected to only make $175 million.

I expect that you can admit that there are more factors than problems at WB: CBM fatigue, the death of the DCEU, that it doesn't even look like that good of a movie.

I also expect that you realize that I was saying this could happen MONTHS ago, after the release of Blue Beetle. As I have repeatedly said, NONE of these DCEU movies should have been released this year. They would have been better off taking the tax write off as they did with Batgirl.

Do you realize that DC has not had a major hit movie since before Black Adam? What if you don't count Else World? I frankly do not even remember the last DCEU movie that was a major hit. That is how bad DC has been the last few years....which is another reason why Aquaman is bombing.