PLEASE READ:1st Time Poster/No Agenda...just facts

[Socratic Methodist]

Hi Tampadave,

I'm a Little River Band fan. I saw them when they performed at Vinoy Park in St. Petersburg approx 5 years ago. I can honestly tell you that I have no clue if any of them on stage were any of the original members or not (someone with more knowledge would know) but I can tell you there was 1 american and 4 aussies in the band. They sounded amazing and I was lucky enough to meet them after the show.

Had they not sounded like the Little River Band that I am a fan of, I would have walked away none the weary. I think that because I have never gotten into the "behind the scenes" info and nitty-gritty about them, I didn't judge them on anything other than how they sounded to me.

Oddly enough, the fact that I have read so much in regards to Journey over the last couple of years has put me into the mindset that I am not so sure I want to attend another one of their concerts unless Steve Perry is on stage with them. Something tells me it will be awhile untill hell freezes over.....

Peace to all~

Another LRB fan here....and I must say I'm ragged on by my friends almost daily.....

How can one not like songs like:

A Cruel Madness
Sanity's Side
The Other Guy
We Two

[circleIIcircle]

My first post too. While I am upset with the way Journey and JSS situation went down I was not surprised. Let me explain and give a little background.

Well from the beginning when I first heard the news that JSS was the new frontman for Journey, my heart dropped and I thought what a bad move on JSS part and a good move on Journeys part. I was very upset because I knew it would spell the end to Talisman.

I have always been a big fan of Journey, I have bought every release they have ever put out and been to over 100 of their shows. But the one thing that had become very apparent is they lost their "magically touch" in song writing after Frontiers. Some say Raised on Radio, but in no way did that album compare to anything before it. I saw them with Steve A and it was a good show. But what Journey had started out as a Great live band, they turned into a cover band that only covered their own Greatest Hits.

They also seemed to not care about there fans anymore. I was going to check them out even though I was upset about the loss of Talisman, so I went to Journeys fan site and got another surprise. I may be dating myself, but it used to be that Bands rewarded their fans for being loyal. If you got the tickets from their fan club you got them at Face Value or slightly under face value. But no they were charging up to $300 + more. So the band wants me to buy their new albums, go to their shows, and not play anything off their new album, tell my friends how great they are get my friends to go see them and buy their new albums, and because I do that they are going to charge me extra. To me that is just trying to make money at any cost. What a bush league move by them, showing they lost any connection to their fans and like a old sports star were trying to hold onto past glories.

I was not going to pay $450 + to go see a band that turned into a cover band and played the same set basically since the late 90' early 2000's. On those shows it was $45, so I figured that I would see them after they went into the studio with JSS, and hopefully returned to writing good songs.

For those who want to say that people only want to hear the hits of their youth and that is why Journey sticks with their 1983 set list, or it is all the music industry fault, well that is not completely true. Journey has not written or put out anything rememberable since then. And it is not because Melodic Rock went into a "dead era" in at least the US. If they would have maintained quality writing they would have gotten through the "dead era". Look at Bon Jovi they made it through the dead period, with record sales, and not dishing Bon Jovi, but if you weigh musical talent Journey members would have it on them. But Journey stopped being the band that sold 7 nights out at the LA Forum (I believe the only other person to do that feat was Neil Diamond). They forgot how to write and got comfortable living in the past.


So it should not be any wonder that they got rid of JSS for a cover band singer. If JSS had went into the studio they would have to come out with something new and exciting and possibly a new direction. This move should show that Journey does not want to move on to a future, and does not mind staying stuck in the past.

Well I can only hope that for some off chance that Talisman will be resurrected. In that band they were not afraid to put out something new, their writing never fell off. and they never seemed to be content with living on the past. Living in the states I never got to see them live, and was going to go to Europe last fall to see them, but with the way they cancelled shows because of Journey last fall, that got all screwed up. I was not able to travel to Europe this summer, so I am out of luck, unless they decide that they want to go on. So I watch the Talisman DVD, and am impressed every-time I see it, and get angry that Journey brought an end to a VERY Talented band.

What Journey did in the end was a bad move for them, and how they seem to have done it was wrong, but JSS is much better off not being in Journey, unlike Journey he has a future, and keeps moving on.

[stevew2]

Just to be clear guys (and gals), I wasn't ripping on LRB as I think they are fantastic. I just wanted to point out that their situation is much more disfunctional than Journey's but because most do not know (or care) they will spend the money to see LRB but now want to boycott Journey concerts with a sound-a-like singer. That is their perogative, no doubt but it is no different than the current Guess Who and many other bands that may, indeed, be coverish bands of the originals but sound the same so we can enjoy the music of our youth.

Last summer I saw both Styx and Dennis DeYoung and sang as loud to "Come Sail Away" with Lawrence Gowan singing it as I did with DDY singing.

I give the Journey, Survivor, etc. harcores credit for taking a stand and that is their right, and certainly do not defend Journey for the apparant way they treated JSS, but at the end of the day, they will still sell 10-15K at a shed singing the hits, and, when they can't do that, they will hit the casino's, county fairs, and whatever else can keep the rush of playing live and the cash that comes with it.

Being someone who was in the live entertainment business in front of audiences for 12 years and than lost my gig, I can tell you that the hardest thing to accept is not the money not coming in but the roar of the crowd. Ego's are hard to lose and these bands will pull out all the stops to keep the "rush" of the live audience singing along to the hits.

That said, I will be going next week to see The Guess Who and Grandfunk Railroad with a total combination of possibly 2 1/2 original members between both bands (if I'm lucky) and will, most likely, LOVE every minute of it. Just reliving my youth.

Cheers, Dave

Welcome ,you make alot of sense,I agree with you, I could give a fuck about the band anymore. Play the music,and try not to kill your lead singers. Keep us posted on the concerts. I love Grand Funk i saw them back together on TV right around the time Journey was starting up with Steve A. They sounded good then {8 years ago] The drummer still had his fro it was just grey. Still sang his ass off

[conversationpc]

What Journey did in the end was a bad move for them, and how they seem to have done it was wrong, but JSS is much better off not being in Journey, unlike Journey he has a future, and keeps moving on.

Agreed.

BTW, are you a big fan of Zach Stevens and/or Savatage?

[Little Lenny]

Styxman,

Wasn't inferring that the new REO CD was bad...quite good. My point is, in craving for nostalgia, I found myself listeing more to the bonus Live Hi-Infidelity CD, my point being that the majority will crave nostalgia more than new material. Not everyone, but most IMO.

Dave

Hi Tampadave,
I don't know if I agree with you on your craving for old material. In the UK there is a thriving rockscene, and many new bands that are readily available on cd. I Say this as my partner is a DJ playing Rock muisc, he still plays old stuff, but there is a generation of younger people who want to hear stuff that is new, there is also a large demand within in the older age brackets, by this I mean people in there mid 30's upwards to hear newer stuff , from groups such as Wigwam, Gotthard, Jorn Lande, Stan Bush, Frederiksen & Denander, the list is endless..

This aside, there are many of the old groups that seem to have been around forever that are still producing new stuff, Deep Purple, Scorpions, Aerosmith, David Coverdale . This in my opinion keeps them fresh, revitalised, and attractive ( musically & creativly) not only to the older generations, but to the up and coming youngsters. In the UK if you ask a young person to name something by Journey, they will say primarily 'don't stop believing', after that the vast majority will draw a blank.

With Jeff Scott Soto Journey had a chance to change that, and become alive again and fertile in new creativity. Unfortunately they have only thought within their own immediate environment in my opinion, that does not make good sense to me, you need to keep attracting people to be remain in the forefront of your trade. If not you may as well just resign/ retire/ put yourself our to grass.
That's my take on it anyway.

[Liz22562]

Tampadave, I think you may have misunderstood my post! The only reason why I'm not inclined to want to see Journey perform any time soon is because of "TMI" - (too much information). I've read just about everything a soul could read on all the whys, how comes and what if's on this message board. I have watched posters get bashed, trashed, abused, insulted, blah, blah blah because they had opposing views. I've seen the members of Journey get the same treatment because of decisions they have made. After awhile (for me), enough was enough and it soured me just a little bit.

I have been a fan of Journey since before Perry entered into the picture, so who the lead singer is doesn't matter. There are a lot of posts that I breeze through and do not pay much attention to. This thread has been one of the most interesting ones I've seen in a long while because of the information and non-battle-esque views that are shared. There have been some great discussions and debates and a lot of knowledge shared on this particular message board, but when people get trashed because they have opposing view points - I cease to care.

~Peace to all~

P.S. Socratic Methodist - Hello fellow LRB fan!!!!!!

[MRMUSIC413]

This aside, there are many of the old groups that seem to have been around forever that are still producing new stuff, Deep Purple, Scorpions, Aerosmith, David Coverdale . This in my opinion keeps them fresh, revitalised, and attractive ( musically & creativly) not only to the older generations, but to the up and coming youngsters...

With Jeff Scott Soto Journey had a chance to change that, and become alive again and fertile in new creativity. Unfortunately they have only thought within their own immediate environment in my opinion, that does not make good sense to me, you need to keep attracting people to be remain in the forefront of your trade. If not you may as well just resign/ retire/ put yourself our to grass.

That's my take on it anyway.

Exactly...well said.

That's the point I've tied to relay in a few recent threads and believe anything else leads to stagnation (and eventually a big drop in product and ticket sales...) Ian Gillian echoed the same sentiments recently in the UK publication Classic Rock. He claimed he was hesitant to do a feature in the mag because he doesn't see Purple as classic rock. In recent years there has been a huge resurgence in the band in the UK & Europe and they are playing bigger halls and drawing a wide age group of fans - all the while on the road promoting new material. He said how odd it is for his college age daughter's friends to tell him how "hot the band is right now" and how all her friends "love Deep Purple"...

Vintage rock acts like Maiden, Rush, Styx, REO, Cheap Trick, Deep Purple, Alice Cooper, etc... still enjoy the recording and touring to promote new material - and many do quite well with sales. It would be a major shame if all rested on their laurels and became little more than a half assed jukebox...

[tampadave]

Little Lenny,

Not that I am an expert but I think that the music business is EXTREMELY different in the US than it is in Europe and the UK. For whatever reason, the majority of US music fans are much more into the "Greatest Hits" and not so much for new music. Is that sad? Sure. It is also sad that more people here are interested in Britney Spears shaving her head or Paris Hilton in jail than terrorism, war, the economy, etc.

It seems like Europe and the UK are much more into new music, which, I guess, is one of the reasons Talisman did well there and didn't have much of a presence here.

It is interesting that us Americans are more apt to rest on the hits of our youth and are not hungry for new music while it seems to be 100% different in the UK and Europe.

Using the Little River Band again as a reference, I guess that is why they only play in the US but still do 100-150 gigs a year going back to the same cities to play the same 10 hits over and over again.

Cheers, Dave

[lidobar]

I'm sorta a newbie to this Journey fandom. I agree with you I'd spend bucks to buy a new Journey album and see them in concert. I rediscovered their music just recently. I didn't listen to it much growing up, I was into 80's new wave music in my youth but now I feel like I missed out on so many opportunities to see them in their prime. Oh well.

I don't know why all the fans here are so hostile and up in arms about a new lead singer. So maybe they didn't let him go in the best manner but it's not like it hasn't happened before in the history of the band. I still love their music regardless of what their personalities are really like.

They haven't done anything really obnoxious like getting thrown in jail for drunk driving or setting bad examples. What I love about their music is that they've kept the lyrics clean never a swear word even if they don't live pristine lives. They've never called women bitches n' ho's in their lyrics so I have the great respect for them and they will have my support as a fan.

[NealIsGod]

I'm sorta a newbie to this Journey fandom. I agree with you I'd spend bucks to buy a new Journey album and see them in concert. I rediscovered their music just recently. I didn't listen to it much growing up, I was into 80's new wave music in my youth but now I feel like I missed out on so many opportunities to see them in their prime. Oh well.

I don't know why all the fans here are so hostile and up in arms about a new lead singer. So maybe they didn't let him go in the best manner but it's not like it hasn't happened before in the history of the band. I still love their music regardless of what their personalities are really like.

They haven't done anything really obnoxious like getting thrown in jail for drunk driving or setting bad examples. What I love about their music is that they've kept the lyrics clean never a swear word even if they don't live pristine lives. They've never called women bitches n' ho's in their lyrics so I have the great respect for them and they will have my support as a fan.

Good post. Some fans treat Neal and Jon like OJ. It is over the top.

Welcome aboard.

[ArnelRox]

Some fans treat Neal and Jon like OJ. It is over the top.

Really? I've been sitting here thinking we just might not be doing enough. Gosh darn it.

I'm so glad ur here to set me straight niggy.

[Moon Beam]

How can one not like songs like: We Two

Damn that be a fine one, ever heard Who Made The Moon
by Wayne Nelson......damn, heart tug tune that just don't let go.

[NealIsGod]

Some fans treat Neal and Jon like OJ. It is over the top.

Really? I've been sitting here thinking we just might not be doing enough. Gosh darn it.

I'm so glad ur here to set me straight niggy.

And we did it non-violently. Ghandi would be proud.

[ArnelRox]

Well I can only hope that for some off chance that Talisman will be resurrected. In that band they were not afraid to put out something new, their writing never fell off. and they never seemed to be content with living on the past.

Very nice post & an excellent debut. Welcome aboard!

I only discovered Talisman last yr & they are truly amazing. They act like a band of bros even after all these yrs together. Not 2 prancing divas & their worshippers. I really hope they decide to keep going. If we could just introduce them in the US, I think they might do better than anyone expects.

[Saint John]

I'm sorta a newbie to this Journey fandom. I agree with you I'd spend bucks to buy a new Journey album and see them in concert. I rediscovered their music just recently. I didn't listen to it much growing up, I was into 80's new wave music in my youth but now I feel like I missed out on so many opportunities to see them in their prime. Oh well.

I don't know why all the fans here are so hostile and up in arms about a new lead singer. So maybe they didn't let him go in the best manner but it's not like it hasn't happened before in the history of the band. I still love their music regardless of what their personalities are really like.

They haven't done anything really obnoxious like getting thrown in jail for drunk driving or setting bad examples. What I love about their music is that they've kept the lyrics clean never a swear word even if they don't live pristine lives. They've never called women bitches n' ho's in their lyrics so I have the great respect for them and they will have my support as a fan.

What they did was FAR worse than drunk driving. Drunk driving is usually the result of poor judgment and/or a poor tolerance to alcohol. What the members in Journey with "say so" and management did was cold, premeditated, classless and without backbone. Besides, you're comparing apples to oranges. Please don't be an apologist for their reprehensible actions.

[larocque6689]

Hey, if you want to reward Neal and Jon's behavior, by all means, go ahead. Economically supporting the "new" Journey at this stage is equivalent to being an accessory after the fact.

[squirt1]

CircleIIcircle- Neal and Jon miss Perry's writing and input. So nothing has been notable for the last 10-11 yrs. They stumble into a potential goldmine with Jeff and blow it ! I will not go pay to see bands w/o the orig singer/writer ,unless the new singer displays some of the talent as the original and that is rare. Do you think anyone will truly be sucessful replacing Tyler,BonJovi or Mercury? I wouldn't pay to see it.

[squirt1]

Torch- You said it ! How did you discover MR? You will love it !

[lidobar]

hey, why personally attack Neal and Jon? none of us know them in real life or how they really are. I don't think what they did was bad or is worse than drunk driving. let me just say we can agree to disagree, it's a free country - if you're in the good ol' USA that is. whatever i say won't change your mind and whatever you say won't change mine. My point in even posting here is that there are fans our there who still support the band after this JSS debacle. I want the rest of the world to know that not everyone feels the same way as the most vocal posters on this board. I came here because I'm a fan of Journey music.

Hey, if you want to reward Neal and Jon's behavior, by all means, go ahead. Economically supporting the "new" Journey at this stage is equivalent to being an accessory after the fact.

[Rick]

Torch- You said it ! How did you discover MR? You will love it !

I think she's MsM's sister. Good to see her in here.

[Ms_M]

Torch- You said it ! How did you discover MR? You will love it !

I think she's MsM's sister. Good to see her in here.

Yes she is - thanks, Rick.