Had an intersting discussion on religion at work today.

[scarygirl]

I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to personal salvation.

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via FoxyTunes

I don't understand what this means. Can you expand on what you mean. No agenda with the question.

It means that I believe Jesus Christ died on the cross to absolve me of my sins and that by believing him and asking for him to come into my heart as my personal savior that I will go to heaven. I believe there is no other way.

[mdaemon]

if your child has polio and you have the choice to pray or inoculate, which one do you do if you can only chose one? Which one has a better chance of making the child well? In that instance I'll go with science.

If you are a poor father from a 3rd world country with no access to vaccine, you are left with no choice but to go with prayer. You have to believe that prayer will work.

....I realize that my answer is too late

[iLex]

If you choose to stay a scientific illiterate, that's your choice. That's one of the reasons why religion is harming us as a species.

Scientific illiterate, delusional, brainwashed, etc. If you can't stay away from the bomb-throwing, I think this discussion has run its course.

Why are you offended that easily?

At the beginning of this discussion you called me "a fool" cause the bible says so. Strange that a holy book has to use offensive language but anyhow,
it was part of your defense and I was OK with it.

A little later RossValoryRocks calls me euro-trash, an ass and a fool. But if that's his christian way of expressing his feelings, so be it.

Don't take it all too personal.

[Sarah]

Questions for atheists:

1. If you really think there is no God, why even bother caring that others believe in Him? After all, it really doesn't matter if this life is all there is and then you turn into worm food.

2. Again, there is no God...Who cares if people murder, rape, steal, etc., because we will all send up in the same place when we die...the ground.

3. If you are an atheist, why not support anarchy instead of some form of government? Since there is no higher power to answer to and every man is his own God, wouldn't it make more sense to not have a government?

1. Well I care because religion infringes on politics so often that it has an impact on my civilian life. If religion stayed out of politics we probably wouldn't have people trying to define marriage in the constitution.

2. We're not horrible immoral people, man. The fact that you think atheists should condone rape and murder is appalling and shows that you have no idea what atheists are about. It's not about sin it's about FUCKING UP OTHER PEOPLE. When a theft or rape happens I'm not concerned with what they get after death. I'm just concerned with them paying beforehand, because it better happen sometime. This question actually sounds like you would support letting criminals go because they would pay in the afterlife...

3. Government authority is not even remotely the same as believing that a cosmic guy is watching for sin. In fact, now that you ask this, atheists should probably love government since it does on a human level what God should be doing (punishing the wicked especially) and religious people should love anarchy because it doesn't let men play God.

[Sarah]

Not being condescending or anything, what are your attitudes about extraterrestrial life. I'm not talking about little green men. I'm talking about Lifeforms that are more intelligent than us. The universe is a big place. Are we the top dog or can there be others out there that may dwarf us intellectually.

I mentioned some pages back that I totally think there MUST be sentient life out there.

This also strengthens my idea that there's no way any god would be assed to spend much of its time on Earth when the universe is so massive and probably full of alien species needing the same attention.

[whirlwind]

I believe in the "Big Bang" and that all of this has happened before and will happen again. We will become another burned out planet adrift in outer space and another reborn planet will probably call us "Elmo."

I don't for a minute believe in a heaven or hell. How any knowledgable person can is a mystery to me. You reap what you sow in the here and now, imo. I'm am completely without doubt with this and have no questions about the how and why of it all. I am. We are. We will be again. Period!

[conversationpc]

Why are you offended that easily?

Ummm...Have you not noticed how I've put up with your comments about being delusional for quite a few pages now in this thread? He who is never offended by anything probably doesn't care enough about something.

At the beginning of this discussion you called me "a fool" cause the bible says so. Strange that a holy book has to use offensive language but anyhow,
it was part of your defense and I was OK with it.

Actually, I don't believe I said that it was because the Bible says so. You also cannot claim that I continued to use that line as you have done with your "delusional" comments throughout the entire thread.

A little later RossValoryRocks calls me euro-trash, an ass and a fool. But if that's his christian way of expressing his feelings, so be it.

Don't take it all too personal.

How's that different from calling people delusional, indoctrinated, etc.? You can't hold people up to a standard that you're not willing to abide by yourself.

[MartyMoffatt]

I suspect all atheists, agnostics and even some passively religious people are actually humanists, even if they don't realise it. Humanism advocates the rights and responsibilities of ALL humans in the world, but without deferring that responsibility to some higher order. In other words, morality and laws governing human behaviour are still very important but we humans, and only we, share the burdon of defining, applying and abiding by them.

Here's an interesting web page comparing humanism with several major religions... http://www.humanists.freeserve.co.uk/comparison/comparison.htm

Marty

[conversationpc]

2. We're not horrible immoral people, man. The fact that you think atheists should condone rape and murder is appalling and shows that you have no idea what atheists are about. It's not about sin it's about FUCKING UP OTHER PEOPLE. When a theft or rape happens I'm not concerned with what they get after death. I'm just concerned with them paying beforehand, because it better happen sometime. This question actually sounds like you would support letting criminals go because they would pay in the afterlife...

I never said that atheists were horrible, immoral people. Don't try to put words in my mouth that I haven't said. You're not thinking logically here, something iLex has been trying to say for the entire thread that Christians aren't doing.

Many atheists are moral people and I would never say otherwise. However, thinking logically, if there is no afterlife and no ultimate judge, what does it matter if, when you die, there is nothing, you just cease to exist?

3. Government authority is not even remotely the same as believing that a cosmic guy is watching for sin. In fact, now that you ask this, atheists should probably love government since it does on a human level what God should be doing (punishing the wicked especially) and religious people should love anarchy because it doesn't let men play God.

God gave us dominion over the earth. Mankind are not automatons. He gave us freewill and the ability to choose evil or good. Some choose evil.

[MartyMoffatt]

I never said that atheists were horrible, immoral people. Don't try to put words in my mouth that I haven't said. You're not thinking logically here, something iLex has been trying to say for the entire thread that Christians aren't doing.

No, you didn't say that, but you implied that by not believing in God, atheists would condone such immoral practices as rape, murder and theft because there would be no consequences in an 'afterlife'. This shows a complete lack of understanding about what atheism means.

Marty

[Sarah]

I never said that atheists were horrible, immoral people. Don't try to put words in my mouth that I haven't said. You're not thinking logically here, something iLex has been trying to say for the entire thread that Christians aren't doing.

No, you didn't say that, but you implied that by not believing in God, atheists would condone such immoral practices as rape, murder and theft because there would be no consequences in an 'afterlife'. This shows a complete lack of understanding about what atheism means.

Marty

Thank you, Marty. Saves me the reply.

Dave did you even read the whole paragraph? "It's not about sin it's about FUCKING UP OTHER PEOPLE. When a theft or rape happens I'm not concerned with what they get after death. I'm just concerned with them paying beforehand, because it better happen sometime."

[donnaplease]

That my friend is YOUR oppinion. One you are quite entitled to. One would be stupid to stand in the way of a train and just "pray". It would also call for some action. Get off the track. He also gives us common sense. I never heard God say, thou shalt not go to a doctor and get medicine. One of the appostles was told to take something for their stomachs sake. You are welcome to take medicine to these people, problem is the people who would not allow it. What keeps you from taking this medicine to them? Some evil government that would not allow it. Not God.

Isn't it true that there are many people and organizations that DO take medications and vaccines to people in these situations? And a LARGE percentage of these people do it IN GOD'S NAME and for His grace. Missionary work is very important to many Christians.

[iLex]

I never said that atheists were horrible, immoral people. Don't try to put words in my mouth that I haven't said. You're not thinking logically here, something iLex has been trying to say for the entire thread that Christians aren't doing.

No, you didn't say that, but you implied that by not believing in God, atheists would condone such immoral practices as rape, murder and theft because there would be no consequences in an 'afterlife'. This shows a complete lack of understanding about what atheism means.

Marty

Excellent Marty, wish I could formulate things in English the way you can!

[iLex]

At the beginning of this discussion you called me "a fool" cause the bible says so. Strange that a holy book has to use offensive language but anyhow,
it was part of your defense and I was OK with it.

Actually, I don't believe I said that it was because the Bible says so.

Check on page 10, this is what you said!!!

Only fools think there is no God (see Psalm 14:1)

What punishment does the bible foresee for "people not telling the truth"?

[Rick]

At the beginning of this discussion you called me "a fool" cause the bible says so. Strange that a holy book has to use offensive language but anyhow,
it was part of your defense and I was OK with it.

Actually, I don't believe I said that it was because the Bible says so.

Check on page 10, this is what you said!!!

Only fools think there is no God (see Psalm 14:1)

What punishment does the bible foresee for "people not telling the truth"?

Alex, I hope Dave has a sense of humor about that.

I think I'm going to petition Andrew to close this thread. It's definitely run it's course.

[artist4perry]

At the beginning of this discussion you called me "a fool" cause the bible says so. Strange that a holy book has to use offensive language but anyhow,
it was part of your defense and I was OK with it.

Actually, I don't believe I said that it was because the Bible says so.

Check on page 10, this is what you said!!!

Only fools think there is no God (see Psalm 14:1)

What punishment does the bible foresee for "people not telling the truth"?

Alex, I hope Dave has a sense of humor about that.

I think I'm going to petition Andrew to close this thread. It's definitely run it's course.

Rick I agree, I tried to discuss this topic in a civil manner and was called a scientific illiterate, because they did not like my answers! I have studied several sciences in college and high school. It was one of my best subjects. I was on the Chancelors list and Had mostly A's all through college. I would challenge this individual to look up the word illiterate, instead of cutting and pasting other's knowledge on the board. If you cannot respect others, and resort to name calling and childish treatment of others because you don't like their answer. You negate anything you have to say.

[Rick]

Rick I agree, I tried to discuss this topic in a civil manner and was called a scientific illiterate, because they did not like my answers! I have studied several sciences in college and high school. It was one of my best subjects. I was on the Chancelors list and Had mostly A's all through college. I would challenge this individual to look up the word illiterate, instead of cutting and pasting other's knowledge on the board. If you cannot respect others, and resort to name calling and childish treatment of others because you don't like their answer. You negate anything you have to say.

Don't take any of it personally, you know how people can get when religion is discussed. It's certainly a hotbed topic. I think I can speak for everyone when I say you're a valued member of this site.

[iLex]

At the beginning of this discussion you called me "a fool" cause the bible says so. Strange that a holy book has to use offensive language but anyhow,
it was part of your defense and I was OK with it.

Actually, I don't believe I said that it was because the Bible says so.

Check on page 10, this is what you said!!!

Only fools think there is no God (see Psalm 14:1)

What punishment does the bible foresee for "people not telling the truth"?

Alex, I hope Dave has a sense of humor about that.

I think I'm going to petition Andrew to close this thread. It's definitely run it's course.

I'm sure he has.
Rick: Thanks for starting this thread! I enjoyed it.
Dave: Although we might never agree on this, I thank you for this discussion. Of all the ones believing in God you were the one giving me a hard time.
You took the effort watching movies that must be painful for you, I admire and appreciate that.
artist4perry: I love you too

[artist4perry]

Rick I agree, I tried to discuss this topic in a civil manner and was called a scientific illiterate, because they did not like my answers! I have studied several sciences in college and high school. It was one of my best subjects. I was on the Chancelors list and Had mostly A's all through college. I would challenge this individual to look up the word illiterate, instead of cutting and pasting other's knowledge on the board. If you cannot respect others, and resort to name calling and childish treatment of others because you don't like their answer. You negate anything you have to say.

Don't take any of it personally, you know how people can get when religion is discussed. It's certainly a hotbed topic. I think I can speak for everyone when I say you're a valued member of this site.

Rick I am fine! LOL! I just don't see talking about a subject when it gets to the point of people getting so worked up they make it a reason to insult others. iLEX learn to debate without taking it to that level.
Rick thank you for your kind words! I actually like everyone here, even if we do not all agree.

[Don]

I thought this has been tame compared to the political threads. But then again I don't take it very seriously to begin with.

[T-Bone]

The debate over religious beliefs can never be won. In fact, 99% of the time, it can't even be discussed without a shitfest starting.

Locking this thread while people here are still on somewhat good terms

PS: Starting a NEW thread to continue this one because you feel the need to have the last word wouldn't be a wise decision