President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby Monker » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:44 am

conversationpc wrote:
Memorex wrote:They happen to both come from very Democrat States. Why would anyone expect them to win there?


Kinda what I was thinking...I don't know who Romney ran against for Governor of Massachusetts but those folks are almost always going to vote for the real liberal. Other than electing Scott Brown, who's really just a liberal Republican, they almost always vote for the lib.


LOL...at the time, Romney was a real liberal.
then he ran in the Republican primary and had to prove he was a real conservative to win.
Then he found himself with the nomination and that he had to prove that he wasn't 'too' conservative.

He is whatever it takes to win..Errr...whatever he THINKS it takes to win.
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Postby Monker » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:22 am

Just a couple additional things....

I almost pity the Republicans now. So full of confidence that you don't even realize that what you are full of is very far away from "confidence". So many have this fantasy of what the political universe is like, and you stick to it. You stick to it because you have your own network of radicals who feed your fantasy. You don't have to face reality...until it smacks you in the face after an election.

Romney was never electable. I said that before he was even nominated. Deep down, I think most Republicans knew that. That's why every other nominee was tested before Romney was defaulted to. He's not conservative enough for the base. he's not charismatic, or exciting, or inspiring, or anything else to get moderates excited about him. He alienated minorities and women. He was never a good candidate...the only reason it was even close is because Obama had a lot of negatives to exploit.

But, anyway....I read this Washington Post article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/his-party-doomed-romney/2012/11/06/bde52c4e-288a-11e2-bab2-eda299503684_blog.html

The Republican party is so fucked up right now. It doesn't matter what state you start the process in...get it through your heads that the party itself wants conservative candidates. The more conservative the better. In fact, I'm quite certain that factions in the party are saying Romney wasn't conservative enough and next time.... Moderates are ignored and pushed aside BECAUSE they are moderate and the party doesn't want them. A moderate con NOT be nominated and the Republican nomination and Presidency.

Romney lost simply because Obama knew how to play the game better then Romney and the Republicans. The field has changed. It's NOT 1980 any longer....Democrats realize this and play a modern game directed at moderates and minorities. That won the election. Republicans are still trying to put together some type of "Reagan coalition". It just doesn't work any longer. And, Democrats got more people to the polls then anybody expected.

THAT is why Obama won. Modern politics beat politics stuck in 1980.

If Republicans want to win the Presidency again, they have to modernize their ideas. It's not enough to promise tax cuts for everybody. It's not enough to say you are good for business. It's not enough to say you hate liberalism. It's not enough to spew out a bunch of "Swift Boat" ads. If they want to win, they need to relate to minorities and young people. Talk about THEIR issues as if they matter...and not as if they are resolved as a side effect of some other policy, or ignore them, or the worst - insult and demonize them.

As long as Republicans follow the advice of Karl Rove and Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck and FOX News - they will lose. it's just that simple. Modernize your rhetoric - or dissolve the party.

And, one other thing about the Tea Party....this has HURT the party as a whole. Republicans have LOST seats in congress specifically because of the Tea party. If it were not for the Tea Party and their nominees, the Senate would have a Republican majority right now. Somehow, reign their rhetoric in a bit...it is best for your party, and better for politics in general.

The next four years will be interesting...both parties need to find a new leader.
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Postby Memorex » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:04 pm

I say this from time to time - Sorry for the long one. :)

I think it's somewhere in the middle. As i was saying a few days ago, Democrats seem to carve out groups of people and have policies just for them. Republicans seem to just say hey, you either agree with our philosophy or not, we don't care who you are.

If you go for the carve out method, you will literally go too far, as I believe Democrats have. And if you don;t address these varying groups at all, you won't relate, as the Republicans have seen.

I know this. We cannot afford whatever is happening, be it the last 4 years or the last 12. It's so easy to say someone cares when they spend trillions of dollars on you. But what is the return on investment.

Think about this. How much was spent in Afghanistan and Iraq? What was the return on investment? Now, I am all for killing people that can't play nice and i know America needed to bloody some noses. But it just went on far too long. If you look at the trajectory of the last few years, it seems on the surface like things are improving. They absolutely are not. I say this because far fewer people are working, many are making far less, and many that are working work fewer hours. When you look at how much money was spent to get us to this point, there is absolutely no return on investment. You can't justify any small gains by spending 4+ trillion dollars.

So what happens when we can't keep spending money? Nothing real has been created yet. Every sector has shrunk. Nothing new is on the horizon. Correct me if I am wrong. And this is the fault of the President and the Congress - both sides.

We took a point that was tough and we flipped the whole thing such that far more people require the government's help than before. When you have a president that seems to want to grow that, there is no motivation to correct it.

You can say all you want about any gains that have been made, if there are any. But none of it was a result of the President or Congress, outside of the few jobs that were created at a cost far more than they were worth.

It's like hiring a guy to cut your grass and paying him $90,000 a year. It sounds great. It's awesome that he makes so much and if that's all we focus on, life looks good. But when the guy paying him only makes $75,000 a year, well then it sure as hell ain't worth it.

So we can say hey, let's have health care for all. Let's give a ton of money to alternative energy companies that don't need it. Let's increase food stamp, disability, unemployment, and welfare payments to the highest levels ever seen, let alone imagined. But now we seem to have policies (both Dem and Republican) that make it all too easy to choose government assistance over work. Sounds great until you realize the government simply cannot and will not ever be able to afford that.

And for these policies, I and others get to pay more. I am going to be forced, along with many of you, to give more of my salary (and damn hard earned salary) to support these policies that often hurt more than help. I just simply do not agree with that at all.

We all know I can give a million examples how none of you agree with it either - if it was your money and affected you in the same percentage that it will all of us collectively. It's been painless for me (outside of being on the verge of losing my job) for all of this to go down. My taxes are pretty much the same as before. Yea - gas is higher, food is higher, health care is a lot more - but generally all this increased food stamp growth, etc. has been painless for me personally. So far. But how long can that last?

The basis of this argument is simple. You can take all of the money from all of the wealthy people and it doesn't even come close to taking a dent out of where we are at. So let's say we all just gave in and the rich paid another 10%. Because of the deepness of this issue, it is absolutely meaningless. It's a moral victory for some and that's it. I'd say it's a band aid, but that's an insult to band aids.

So then of course there is the social side. This to me is the more difficult side, but I think it's what decides these things. In fact, I think if Democrats adopted the Republican (supposed) ideas on low taxes, everyone sharing, no free ride kind of attitude, you'd never see another Republican in office. Ever. Because you'd probably have a stronger economy and all the social positions of the majority of the country. I don't think Romney made a big deal out of social issues, but of course they have a platform and it's all right there. I understand religion so I fully respect people's opinions, even if I don't agree with them. There is nothing crazy or extreme about tea party people. That's just BS to scare people. I know many folks in that category and they just tend to focus on the economic more than the social.

So while yes, the Republicans are out of touch, the Dems are in great danger of collapsing the whole damn thing. Too many people think this was a victory for big and expensive government and I am not sure that can be turned around. If you are being honest with yourself, clearly we are tipping the balance too far to ever afford all of this.

I don't know how you fix it. I think the public voted for a sympathetic and empathetic president and a congress to hold him in check. But the power of the president is so big now, there is no holding anyone in check anymore. I hope the two sides work together to figure this out. I hope the president stops being so short sighted on our energy issues. We need gas and coal and all that shit until someone comes up with something better. Otherwise it's $4 gas forever. And then some. And lost jobs. I hope Republicans become more willing to work through issues. And I hope bosses like mine can somehow get waivers from Obamacare so I can keep my insurance and hopefully my job.

One of the hardest workers I know - have ever known - got laid off a few months ago. I talked to her tonight. Her focus was on getting as much from the system as possible, including a bad disability claim in the months ahead rather than focusing on finding work. She said employment out there just isn't the same anymore and collecting from the government might be a better option. I hung up thinking please please raise my taxes so I can support this person. It really lowered my spirit. From the ultimate worker to a freeloader. And you know that has been repeated over and over. I hope we make it.
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Postby AR » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:26 pm

Very simple:

If your guy won = great. Stop blaming Bush. If your guy lost = let the next 4 years prove you were right. It's all good.
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Postby Memorex » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:28 pm

Simple for me - I didn't really have a candidate that I could choose to support all my beliefs. Sucks.
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Postby Boomchild » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:10 pm

The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:MARKET NEWS: Dow dives 350+ points, sinks below 13,000


Yeah I just read that. This is going to be a fucking great next four years. During the second term Obama can now blame all the current problems on his previous four years in office.


Should that happen you can be sure Obama will still be blaming the Bush Administration.
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Postby steveo777 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:24 pm

Boomchild wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:MARKET NEWS: Dow dives 350+ points, sinks below 13,000


Yeah I just read that. This is going to be a fucking great next four years. During the second term Obama can now blame all the current problems on his previous four years in office.


Should that happen you can be sure Obama will still be blaming the Bush Administration.


But he didn't inherit Bush's economy this time. He inherited his own and in time when things are still fucked up he won't be able to blame Bush anymore.

This is a president for the entitlement crowd. You think Tax Credits, Welfare, Foodstamps and Medical expenditures escalated during Obama's first term, wait til after the second. It's gonna be mind blowing. No wonder the minorities like this guy. Someone needs to put their foot down and the gravey train needs to come to a halt, or we are screwed and next time I will move to another country. This is not my fucking debt and I'm getting pissed! :evil:

For those who say Romney didn't cater enough to the hispanics and other minorities, well I say to you this is America and we shouldn't have to. This is how fucked up it's become. People who are born here are not treated as well as some of these illegals.
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Postby slucero » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:53 pm

steveo777 wrote:
Boomchild wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:MARKET NEWS: Dow dives 350+ points, sinks below 13,000


Yeah I just read that. This is going to be a fucking great next four years. During the second term Obama can now blame all the current problems on his previous four years in office.


Should that happen you can be sure Obama will still be blaming the Bush Administration.


But he didn't inherit Bush's economy this time. He inherited his own and in time when things are still fucked up he won't be able to blame Bush anymore.

This is a president for the entitlement crowd. You think Tax Credits, Welfare, Foodstamps and Medical expenditures escalated during Obama's first term, wait til after the second. It's gonna be mind blowing. No wonder the minorities like this guy. Someone needs to put their foot down and the gravey train needs to come to a halt, or we are screwed and next time I will move to another country. This is not my fucking debt and I'm getting pissed! :evil:

For those who say Romney didn't cater enough to the hispanics and other minorities, well I say to you this is America and we shouldn't have to. This is how fucked up it's become. People who are born here are not treated as well as some of these illegals.


there's a flaw in your logic.. Illegals can't vote.. If Romney was catering to the illegals trying to get their vote.. then he deserved to lose.. lol...

The Hispanics and other minorities being referred to were the ones who were born here.

and FYI... white people are a minority now too...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby steveo777 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:09 pm

slucero wrote:
steveo777 wrote:
Boomchild wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:MARKET NEWS: Dow dives 350+ points, sinks below 13,000


Yeah I just read that. This is going to be a fucking great next four years. During the second term Obama can now blame all the current problems on his previous four years in office.


Should that happen you can be sure Obama will still be blaming the Bush Administration.


But he didn't inherit Bush's economy this time. He inherited his own and in time when things are still fucked up he won't be able to blame Bush anymore.

This is a president for the entitlement crowd. You think Tax Credits, Welfare, Foodstamps and Medical expenditures escalated during Obama's first term, wait til after the second. It's gonna be mind blowing. No wonder the minorities like this guy. Someone needs to put their foot down and the gravey train needs to come to a halt, or we are screwed and next time I will move to another country. This is not my fucking debt and I'm getting pissed! :evil:

For those who say Romney didn't cater enough to the hispanics and other minorities, well I say to you this is America and we shouldn't have to. This is how fucked up it's become. People who are born here are not treated as well as some of these illegals.


there's a flaw in your logic.. Illegals can't vote..

I think the Hispanics and other minorities being referred to were the ones who were born here.

and FYI... white people are a minority now too...


Are you naive enough to believe that illegals do not vote? Nobody checks to make sure each voter is legitimate, nor ID's them. People can buy their identity, in fact, any document you need, whether it be a tax id number, social security number, work permit, can be bought on the internet or from another under ground source. Even if illegals couldn't vote, they have sympathizers within their own families who are going to vote in accordance with their cause...to take more government benefits. The system is getting a work over and people who should care are looking the other way. Again, if you believe none of this is going on, you are naive.
I recently watched a hispanic woman at the gas station hand her oldest kid an EBT card.........to pay for pop, candy bars and chips, while she was out gassing up a 2010 Cadillac Escalade. It could have been someone from Russia, Africa or Germany, so I am not throwing down on hispanics, in general, but the system is being worked by illegals and it's time we quit turning a blind eye to it. Obama is exactly the kind of president who allows our country to keep slipping away to this kind of stuff. It's only going to get worse.
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Postby slucero » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:28 pm

steveo777 wrote:
slucero wrote:
steveo777 wrote:
Boomchild wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:MARKET NEWS: Dow dives 350+ points, sinks below 13,000


Yeah I just read that. This is going to be a fucking great next four years. During the second term Obama can now blame all the current problems on his previous four years in office.


Should that happen you can be sure Obama will still be blaming the Bush Administration.


But he didn't inherit Bush's economy this time. He inherited his own and in time when things are still fucked up he won't be able to blame Bush anymore.

This is a president for the entitlement crowd. You think Tax Credits, Welfare, Foodstamps and Medical expenditures escalated during Obama's first term, wait til after the second. It's gonna be mind blowing. No wonder the minorities like this guy. Someone needs to put their foot down and the gravey train needs to come to a halt, or we are screwed and next time I will move to another country. This is not my fucking debt and I'm getting pissed! :evil:

For those who say Romney didn't cater enough to the hispanics and other minorities, well I say to you this is America and we shouldn't have to. This is how fucked up it's become. People who are born here are not treated as well as some of these illegals.


there's a flaw in your logic.. Illegals can't vote..

I think the Hispanics and other minorities being referred to were the ones who were born here.

and FYI... white people are a minority now too...


Are you naive enough to believe that illegals do not vote? Nobody checks to make sure each voter is legitimate, nor ID's them. People can buy their identity, in fact, any document you need, whether it be a tax id number, social security number, work permit, can be bought on the internet or from another under ground source. Even if illegals couldn't vote, they have sympathizers within their own families who are going to vote in accordance with their cause...to take more government benefits. The system is getting a work over and people who should care are looking the other way. Again, if you believe none of this is going on, you are naive.
I recently watched a hispanic woman at the gas station hand her oldest kid an EBT card.........to pay for pop, candy bars and chips, while she was out gassing up a 2010 Cadillac Escalade. It could have been someone from Russia, Africa or Germany, so I am not throwing down on hispanics, in general, but the system is being worked by illegals and it's time we quit turning a blind eye to it. Obama is exactly the kind of president who allows our country to keep slipping away to this kind of stuff. It's only going to get worse.



Actually I believe there is some degree of illegal voting occurring.. just military ballots get locked up and dead people vote.. and I'm no fan of Obama... BUT

The hysteria over illegal immigration is just that hysteria.. there have been 7, yes SEVEN immigration reforms since the Johnson era.. why do you think immigration keeps getting reformed yet never SOLVED? Because its a political football.. used by both parties to stir their base.. and you fall for it hook - line - and sinker.


Do the math...


The most recent estimate of the total number of illegals in this country is 11.5 Million.. according to a 2012 DHS estimate. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/ ... 9I20120324

(before you shit all over that.. I can also cite estimates by Pew Research, and a few others.. all around 12 Million)


But for the sake of your inane argument, lets round it up to 23 Million... which is a double the 2012 DHS estimate

The average size of immigrant minority families is 5... 3 adults, 3 kids
The avg American family is 3.... 2 adults, 1 kid


So of that 23 million.. 9.2 Million illegals MIGHT be voting...

And of the 11.5 Million DHS estimate... the number is 4.6 million...

If you believe EITHER PARTY is going to have simply looked the other way, if that much illegal alien voter fraud is happening,

You are the naive one.

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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:41 pm

Monker wrote:
And, one other thing about the Tea Party....this has HURT the party as a whole. Republicans have LOST seats in congress specifically because of the Tea party. If it were not for the Tea Party and their nominees, the Senate would have a Republican majority right now. Somehow, reign their rhetoric in a bit...it is best for your party, and better for politics in general.

The next four years will be interesting...both parties need to find a new leader.



I think that depends on how you define the Tea Party. Its is an umbrella organization. In one group you have a group of folks, most of of them social conservatives,Santorum type conservatives who read one Milton Friedman book think they are a superstar, and then go on to get slaughtered not only due to their general cluelessness and inconsistencies . Your Christine O Donnells, Sharon Engles and the Rape Twins (although to be fair many tea Party groups warned about the joker down in Missouri and supported someone else) fall into this category. These guys and gals don't need to be reigned in, they just need to go away. You have a second group in the Tea Party, like Cruz in Texas who are more successful, because they were better qualified in the first place and stick carefully economic issues.

Breaking away from the Tea Pary umbrella caucus are LIBERTY Caucus candidates - folks like Justin Amash, Thomas Massie the Pauls, and growing number of others Its a group that advocates auditing and reigning in the FED, audititng and reigning in the Dept of Defense, as well as making more traditional small govt arguments. In some ways this group is quite to the left on civil liberties - patriot act, NDAA . Most of these Liberty candidates won their races in the house some of them pretty tough ones. A couple like Paul and LePage have proved they can win statewide. Currently, there's a limit to how far this group can get electorally at the moment because they typically tell both Republicans and Democrats things they don't like to hear, but for most of them its more about educating people than winning. However, when the next bubble bursts and we face a huge crisis over the next few years, you might see folks from both parties gravitating to this group
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Postby Liam » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:28 am

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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:05 am

conversationpc wrote:
Behshad wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Behshad wrote:The mentality is , negative clowns like you two , who think that since your boy Romney lost , we aren't a great nation anymore.


Why how Republican of you...Accusing people of hating on their country. Never said it. Never even thought it. Please retract and apologize for that remark.

Be proud of your country and your president , and once and for all get rid of your negativity. I know it's hard for you guys to be positive , but try dammit , TRY . :)


I'm proud of my country and ashamed of my President. Can you seriously tell me you were proud of Bush? I'll know you're lying if you say yes. And how hypocritical to tell us to stop being negative. Have you even said one positive thing about Romney? One?



:lol: apologize to you ? :lol:

You're ashamed of your president , deal with it.

I didn't say one positive thing about Romney cause there were none. Zero. And he was not my president. Thank god.

If he would've been chosen , I wouldn't have hoped for his failure and I would've given him a fair chance to lead us and respected him as POTUS !


As outrageous as Deano could sometimes be, he was always tongue-in-cheek about it and normally followed up with a PM to me to let me know he thought I was a good dude and that he didn't mean it. I don't get that vibe from you. You should be ashamed to even have his avatar in your sig. You're nothing like him.


IMO, I liked Deano because he was a funny and very entertaining character. Behshad is just a moron along with Monker.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:11 am

Boomchild wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:MARKET NEWS: Dow dives 350+ points, sinks below 13,000


Yeah I just read that. This is going to be a fucking great next four years. During the second term Obama can now blame all the current problems on his previous four years in office.


Should that happen you can be sure Obama will still be blaming the Bush Administration.


Why the hell not? Many right wingers, including FF, were blaming Bill Clinton (and even Jimmy Carter!) as the housing bubble melted during W's term in 2008. And when Obama successfully took down Osama, many on the right were lightning quick to credit Bush-era policies for it. So it seems it's ok to lay blame at the feet of past Democratic presidents when it's politically convenient. Heaven forbid, tho, when a Democrat accurately points out that a member of your own team took a shit on the fine leather ottoman. On average, economies require four and half years to recover GDP, housing prices, and for unemployment to bottom out in the wake of an asset bubble exploding. Obama's policies have us back on the path to growth. Any country that has tried the Mitt Romney way (aka severe austerity programs) is steeped in civil unrest, riots, and contracting economies worse than our own.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:06 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:. Any country that has tried the Mitt Romney way (aka severe austerity programs) is steeped in civil unrest, riots, and contracting economies worse than our own.


You do know that there has been no austerity program in Europe dont you. Spending growth rates have have slowed, but there have been little cuts, and more importantly central banks in Europe are still following quantitative easing.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:07 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Any country that has tried the Mitt Romney way (aka severe austerity programs) is steeped in civil unrest, riots, and contracting economies worse than our own.


I almost had to do a double-take on this to see if it was really you because I couldn't believe how stupid this statement is. The reason they have to make such severe cuts is because they're so far in debt from government over-spending that they had no other choice but to make cuts. It's not the fault of those making the cuts to try to save their economy but the ones who spent so recklessly to begin with. Obama's the one spending the money. Whoever comes after him that's forced to make severe cuts is going to get the blame but it won't really be their fault.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:31 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:You do know that there has been no austerity program in Europe dont you. Spending growth rates have have slowed, but there have been little cuts, and more importantly central banks in Europe are still following quantitative easing.


Yeah, ok.
When you're ready to join the real world, let me know.
And spare me the long-winded theses on Hayek and the magic of gold bars.
Don't want to hear it.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 62668.html

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 41/1/.html

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/ho ... m-1.475615
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:50 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:You do know that there has been no austerity program in Europe dont you. Spending growth rates have have slowed, but there have been little cuts, and more importantly central banks in Europe are still following quantitative easing.


Yeah, ok.
When you're ready to join the real world, let me know.
And spare me the long-winded theses on Hayek and the magic of gold bars.
Don't want to hear it.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 62668.html

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 41/1/.html

http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/ho ... m-1.475615


Oh for Christ's sake, if I told you that Journey were a jazz quintet and kept calling it one, it wouldn't be one just because I kept repeating it and convinced scores of people to call it that too.

Yes I understand full well every tom dick and harry use the term austerity to talk about what is going on in most countries in Europe. And yes I've read Paul Krugman's fantasy land argument about the consequences of so called austerity in the UK. Surprised you didn't reach for that link. (if you do serve that softball up though Id be glad to knock it out of the park)

You've had some contraction in spending- in Greece (but the austerity is mostly pension entitlement, reform and wage rate restrictions ) forced on it by its bankruptcy. Every other country really hasn't cut government spending- perhaps eased off the rate of growth. I know, I run a business that operates on both sides of the Atlantic. Take for instance Britain - there has been a shifting of spending, but nothing other than a cut in the growth in the percentage of spending. Unless you consider austerity tax increases - yes you have had tax increases (which the rich in Spain Italy and Greece never will pay as they only obey the rules they damn well want) .

Secondly the expansionary policy of the central banks in Europe is anything less than austere.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:59 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:And yes I've read Paul Krugman's fantasy land argument about the consequences of so called austerity in the UK.


Krugman is an op-ed writer. I don't use op-eds for economic news. But since you seem to relish the chance to refute the analysis of some of today's leading Keynesians, take a whack at this.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publicati ... 010-10.pdf
"I think we should all sue this women for depriving us of our God given right to go down with a clear mind, and good thoughts." - Stu, Consumate Pussy Eater
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Postby brandonx76 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:14 am

Why the Republicans Lost - - Bill Maher 11/8

"Mitt Romney has lost and he'll soon be accepting his new job as professor of method acting at The New School in New York City. And after watching him play all these different characters over the last two years, really, who better?

Now comes the hand-wringing and finger-pointing that always follows electoral defeat; 500 columns of "If they'd done what I said, something, something, measuring the drapes in the Oval Office." And they'll all miss the forest for the trees. Except Dick Morris -- he's always right.

So now that I'm done telling you how everyone else will be full of shit and focusing on the wrong things, let me focus you on the big picture thing that's absolutely correct: Mitt Romney lost because of the Republican brand and Republican policies. There are other reasons, of course, like Mitt being unlovable to anyone not named Ann Romney, but nothing trumps the idea that 2/3rds of America thinks the other 1/3 is a frightening conglomerate of Bible-thumpers, xenophobes, and vaginophobes. (Not a word, but should be.)

Take Mitt's pivot from being "severely conservative" to being "the white Barack Obama." Sure, everyone tacks to the middle after the primaries, but Mitt's performance was different: it was a full-scale repudiation of just about every idea that conservatives hold dear. The positions were changed. The rhetoric was completely different. He was basically Barack Obama, Caucasian Edition.

Now I know what you're saying: this is what Mitt Romney always does. Being a shape-shifting phony isn't an act; that's who he is! And this is true.

But it isn't who Michele Bachmann is. When it comes to nutty right-wing beliefs that are completely false, she's a true believer. And yet what was Michele Bachmann saying during the waning days of her too-close-for-comfort campaign? She was putting out an ad distancing herself from her own Party -- even her conservative district:

"Michele Bachmann is an independent voice working for us, saying no to big spending by both political parties but bringing them together..."

Then Michele pops on the screen and says, "That’s why I've been an independent voice working for you..."

Wow. ...I'm just saying. When even Michele Bachmann can't run as a proud Republican, your brand identification has reached "pink slime" territory."
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:25 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:And yes I've read Paul Krugman's fantasy land argument about the consequences of so called austerity in the UK.


Krugman is an op-ed writer. I don't use op-eds for economic news. But since you seem to relish the chance to refute the analysis of some of today's leading Keynesians, take a whack at this.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publicati ... 010-10.pdf


nope no can do. Not enough pictures. I only read stuff with pictures, ideally with girls with their beavers and breast expose :-)

yes, I will have a wack at it give me an hour or two to give it the attention it deserves.
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Postby Behshad » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:30 am

Fact Finder wrote:ING Layoffs In State Are Unrelated To Massive Staff Reduction In Europe
November 7, 2012
http://www.courant.com/business/connect ... 5363.story

Caterpillar’s Layoffs Parallel A Falling Monthly Copper Price Index
November 7, 2012
http://agmetalminer.com/2012/11/07/cate ... ice-index/

More Layoffs May Be In Store for Alcatel-Lucent
November 6, 2012
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2 ... ucent.aspx

Boeing Telegraphs Layoffs in Defense, Space & Security Unit
November 7, 2012
http://247wallst.com/2012/11/07/boeing- ... rity-unit/

Umatilla Chemical Depot plans layoffs this month, in 2013
November 6, 2012
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2012/11/0 ... rylink=cpy

Hawker Beechcraft to close plants in Arkansas, Texas, Arizona, cut more jobs
November 07, 2012
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/5 ... 90c9f9c/KS—Hawker-Beechcraft-Layoffs


Good thing Romney didnt get elected, or they would blame all of the above on him ;) :lol:


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Postby Behshad » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:00 am

Obama names his new secretary of treasury : Mitt Romney

http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/52 ... -treasury/



( Yes I know its fake new , for now ;) But it is possible )
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Postby steveo777 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:53 am

Fact Finder wrote:Welch Allyn

Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, announced in September that they would be laying off 275 employees, or roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years. One of the major reasons discussed for the layoffs was a proactive response to the Medical Device Tax mandated by the new healthcare law.

Dana Holding Corp.

As recently as a week ago, a global auto parts manufacturing company in Ohio known as Dana Holding Corp., warned their employees of potential layoffs, citing “$24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses”. After laying off several white collar staffers, company insiders have hinted at more to come. The company will have to cover the additional $24 million cost somehow, which will likely equate to numerous cuts in their current workforce of 25,500 worldwide.

Stryker

One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce - an estimated 1,170 positions.

Medtronic

In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs. That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions over the summer, with another 500 set for the end of 2013.


I gotta ask, finally, are you just running around looking for bad news today? I bet I could find just as much good news as you can find bad, if I was hell bent on finding it. ;)
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:53 am

slucero wrote:Quoting myself.. and what I expect will be what caused the Romney loss..


After what the GOP did at the convention, by changing the delegate rules when the delegate vote was clearly "no"... I expect enough Tea Party, Independent Conservative, Libertarian, and newly shocked & disgruntled Republicans will:

  • write in a candidate,
  • vote for Obama or
  • simply stay away from the voting booth altogether.



The cost of the RNC fucking up at the convention... will be Romney losing those Tea Party, libertarian and independent conservative votes...


I found an interesting graphic that backs your statement up (not my own created graphic, and so not my words btw) .

Image


Whilst some of these RP supporters voted Romney the number couldnt have been more than 15 %. A fair percentage went to Johnson, a few to Virgil Goode, a stack wrote in Ron and many stayed home. Heavily because of the the way RP folks were treated at the convention and the treatment of delegations like the Maine delegations.
Last edited by Gin and Tonic Sky on Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Behshad » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:53 am

Fact Finder wrote:Companies facing future layoffs at the hands of Obamacare:

•Smith & Nephew - 770 layoffs
•Abbott Labs - 700 layoffs
•Covidien - 595 layoffs
•Kinetic Concepts - 427 layoffs
•St. Jude Medical - 300 layoffs
•Hill Rom - 200 layoffs



Do you have a list of all the companies who would fire their employees if Obama would get re-elected ? :)
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Postby Behshad » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:54 am

steveo777 wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:Welch Allyn

Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, announced in September that they would be laying off 275 employees, or roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years. One of the major reasons discussed for the layoffs was a proactive response to the Medical Device Tax mandated by the new healthcare law.

Dana Holding Corp.

As recently as a week ago, a global auto parts manufacturing company in Ohio known as Dana Holding Corp., warned their employees of potential layoffs, citing “$24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses”. After laying off several white collar staffers, company insiders have hinted at more to come. The company will have to cover the additional $24 million cost somehow, which will likely equate to numerous cuts in their current workforce of 25,500 worldwide.

Stryker

One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce - an estimated 1,170 positions.

Medtronic

In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs. That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions over the summer, with another 500 set for the end of 2013.


I gotta ask, finally, are you just running around looking for bad news today? I bet I could find just as much good news as you can find bad, if I was hell bent on finding it. ;)


:lol:
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:02 am

Behshad wrote:
I gotta ask, finally, are you just running around looking for bad news today? I bet I could find just as much good news as you can find bad, if I was hell bent on finding it. ;)


:lol:[/quote]

well im sure you can find good news , to quote the movie Beautiful Girls,


"Supermodels are beautiful girls, Will. A beautiful girl can make you dizzy, like you've been drinking Jack and Coke all morning. She can make you feel high full of the single greatest commodity known to man - promise. Promise of a better day. Promise of a greater hope. Promise of a new tomorrow. This particular aura can be found in the gait of a beautiful girl. In her smile, in her soul, the way she makes every rotten little thing about life seem like it's going to be okay. The supermodels, Willy? That's all they are. Bottled promise. Scenes from a brand new day. Hope dancing in stiletto heel"


just post a picture of hot girl everytime FF posts up bad news, you'll match his output. Best advise i can give you. the hotter and nakeder the better.
Last edited by Gin and Tonic Sky on Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Behshad » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:10 am

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Postby Behshad » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:14 am

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