President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[The Sushi Hunter]

Talking about Watergate, if you really think about what has been going on, the US Government has actually wiretapped all of it's citizens who use the internet and phones. Watergate was restricted to a building. What's going on now is the entire nation is wiretapped. OBozo came in stating that his presidency was all about transparency, yet nothing was said about wiretapping Americans in their homes, workplaces, wireless devices, etc. until Snowden came and spilled the beans. At which point OBozo and his Clown Posse of Misfits then chimed in that it was done out of the safety for the American people. It's like intercepting letters placed in the US mail, making copies of every letter, resealing it and then forwarding it off to the recipient, pretty much like how the Viet Cong did to the American captives at the Hanoi Hilton, but this time electronically vs physical letters. And Google is at the top of the list when it comes to enabling this to be done.

[slucero]

and the irony is that the NSA has finally admitted that none of their electronic surveillance has stopped any terrorist attack.

Not. One.

[The Sushi Hunter]

and the irony is that the NSA has finally admitted that none of their electronic surveillance has stopped any terrorist attack.

Not. One.

That must be a pretty recent admission because I remember shortly after the Snowden exposure, OBozo posse were commenting in the news how it had "foiled" dozens and dozens of would be terrorist attacks with the spying system in place. I called the BS flag on that because we all know that if any such attacks are foiled, the OBozo administration gets up on their high horse and praises itself on a job well done, but up to that point when they had to explain themselves, no dozen's of would be attacks had been reported as being "foiled" by OBozo or his clown posse.

And with all the spying it's quite funny how they didn't catch the marathon bombing before it happened.

[slucero]

and the irony is that the NSA has finally admitted that none of their electronic surveillance has stopped any terrorist attack.

Not. One.

That must be a pretty recent admission because I remember shortly after the Snowden exposure, OBozo posse were commenting in the news how it had "foiled" dozens and dozens of would be terrorist attacks with the spying system in place. I called the BS flag on that because we all know that if any such attacks are foiled, the OBozo administration gets up on their high horse and praises itself on a job well done, but up to that point when they had to explain themselves, no dozen's of would be attacks had been reported as being "foiled" by OBozo or his clown posse.

And with all the spying it's quite funny how they didn't catch the marathon bombing before it happened.

This was disclosed in July this year: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/j ... icials-nsa

Straight from the words of NSA deputy director John C Inglis:

The NSA has previously claimed that 54 terrorist plots had been disrupted "over the lifetime" of the bulk phone records collection and the separate program collecting the internet habits and communications of people believed to be non-Americans. On Wednesday, Inglis said that at most one plot might have been disrupted by the bulk phone records collection alone. "There is an example that comes close to a 'but for' example," Inglis said.

"at most one plot might have been disrupted" is not definitive.. so the only answer is "none".

[The Sushi Hunter]

Too funny, they must be looking for other information. I recall NSA agents talking about how other NSA agents did a fine job of looking into personal information on people they were "dating" and involved with.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/2 ... interests/

[Monker]

and the irony is that the NSA has finally admitted that none of their electronic surveillance has stopped any terrorist attack.

Not. One.

That must be a pretty recent admission because I remember shortly after the Snowden exposure, OBozo posse were commenting in the news how it had "foiled" dozens and dozens of would be terrorist attacks with the spying system in place. I called the BS flag on that because we all know that if any such attacks are foiled, the OBozo administration gets up on their high horse and praises itself on a job well done, but up to that point when they had to explain themselves, no dozen's of would be attacks had been reported as being "foiled" by OBozo or his clown posse.

And with all the spying it's quite funny how they didn't catch the marathon bombing before it happened.

This was disclosed in July this year: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/j ... icials-nsa

Straight from the words of NSA deputy director John C Inglis:

The NSA has previously claimed that 54 terrorist plots had been disrupted "over the lifetime" of the bulk phone records collection and the separate program collecting the internet habits and communications of people believed to be non-Americans. On Wednesday, Inglis said that at most one plot might have been disrupted by the bulk phone records collection alone. "There is an example that comes close to a 'but for' example," Inglis said.

"at most one plot might have been disrupted" is not definitive.. so the only answer is "none".

Sorry...but I just don't believe this.

50yrs of project Echelon must have had more impact then this.

[Monker]

2014 will be the RNC against Obamacare and the lies..

Right. Sure. Sure. And Benghazi is even bigger than Watergate. Nobody cares.

I agree. Nobody cares. Therein lies the problem, not that I'd expect you to care, at all.

Correct...it's a problem for Republicans because they will try to argue it instead of addressing issues the country cares about...which will cause them to lose votes in the next election. THAT is the problem being referred to.

[Monker]

Obama denies ‘you can keep it’ videotaped promises
http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama ... -promises/

If the GOP was smart they should start running PSAs focusing directly on this topic. Show all the major clips before and his pathetic attempt to back peddle now. But of course they won't. Instead you'll get appearances by Karl Rove and his stupid white board spewing his out of touch philosophy.

If Republicans were smart they would have alienated the TeaParty months ago. Now that radical faction has cost the Republicans a lot of credibility nationally. I said this a long time ago...it divides the party and will cause Republicans problems for years. The center is too liberal for the party (Romney) and the right is too radical for the nation. They're screwed.

[Boomchild]

OBozo came in stating that his presidency was all about transparency, yet nothing was said about wiretapping Americans in their homes, workplaces, wireless devices, etc. until Snowden came and spilled the beans.

B.O. came into office stating that he opposed to what the Patriot Act was doing and stated that he was going to stop it. Instead his administration did the exact opposite. Guess this is part of B.O.'s idea of change.

[Boomchild]

and the irony is that the NSA has finally admitted that none of their electronic surveillance has stopped any terrorist attack.

Not. One.

As if that is really what they were after.

[Boomchild]

Nah.. Rove is on the outs with the RNC...

Maybe I've missed something but I haven't seen or heard about this.

[Boomchild]

If Republicans were smart they would have alienated the TeaParty months ago. Now that radical faction has cost the Republicans a lot of credibility nationally. I said this a long time ago...it divides the party and will cause Republicans problems for years. The center is too liberal for the party (Romney) and the right is too radical for the nation. They're screwed.

Sorry, I don't agree. It's funny how people with true conservative values and look to protect and defend what our Constitution is all about are now considered radicals. The majority in the Republican party no longer represent actual conservative values. Their mistake is turning on those in their party they don't agree with. Something that the Democrats learned not to do. No matter how bad they screw up or are not 100% in line with their party.

[slucero]

Correct...it's a problem for Republicans because they will try to argue it instead of addressing issues the country cares about...which will cause them to lose votes in the next election. THAT is the problem being referred to.

Just like how folks are now awakening to the reality of O'Care and how what they were sold isn't what they're getting... and will cause likely result in the Dems losing votes..

[Boomchild]

According to Sebelius, Obamacare "navigators" are not required to undergo criminal background checks. It's nice to see this administration has the protection of citizen's personal and sensitive information at the top of their list. Since this is the case maybe some of the illegals (undocumented citizens for pc folks) could get some of these positions. They should be good for those non English speaking applicants. Also, we are supposed to believe that the website is secure. Yeah, sure it is.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/seb ... 66342.html

[Monker]

Correct...it's a problem for Republicans because they will try to argue it instead of addressing issues the country cares about...which will cause them to lose votes in the next election. THAT is the problem being referred to.

Just like how folks are now awakening to the reality of O'Care and how what they were sold isn't what they're getting... and will cause likely result in the Dems losing votes..

No, not exactly. The public will be told Obamacare sucks by the Republican spin machine.

That is a lot different then the Republican spin machine wasting everybody's time by arguing against something nobody cares about.

[verslibre]

Independents and libertarians are critical of O-care, too. For every person it works for, there's somebody for whom it doesn't.

[StoneCold]

.

Life Inside the Bubble: Why a Top-Ranked Secret Service Agent Walked Away from It All
by Dan Bongino

review from someone that's read it:

The price of truth for Bongino may foreseeably be paid by him in character attacks, discrediting, some invented 'exposure', God forbid; a Hastings experience. To 61% of people polled today Obama's administration is obscure.
He has a penchant to tell; always telling, telling, the nation what they want with no independent poll numbers reporting what the people actually want when the pollster asked instead of told.

Obama's campaign speeches promised obscurity; riddled with " you misunderstand what I said ", but we didn't, nevertheless he disarmed the listener with his version of " you're wrong ".

Airways retrained minds by rote, repeating his finger pointing Blame Bush hatred. The beginning of hiddenness.
With all the information under his control he could have reported facts to account for the state of the nation he inherited to better. Instead he accused and accused and accused. Woe is Me has served him well. A nation has looked at the woundedness of the man and not his intent.

Denial, blame, finger pointing, making others accountable yet refusing to answer questions, a presidency that replicates an ad campaign run by Hollywood lights and camera, wardrobe and Stanislavski convening on Madison Avenue.
Reading this book by one of the rare brave is the difference between seeing a movie by a Producer-Director whose money is invested for a return and reading the book by the Author who lived it whose reputation is invested for you. No amount of book sales will offset the dangers Bongino will face.

Like the 60 highly trained top US military commanders Obama has quietly purged as he begins his purge, reenacting pages from Joseph Stalin and every wannabe leader of the world; the quiet purging of military brass who refuse to fire on their countrymen. Our laws prevent our military from firing on American's. Are they replaced with commanders who will give such an order? Do we know the truth? What is occurring in secret today may be the truth hidden behind the speeches. You can buy this book and allow someone else to give their speech.

Hardcopy
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Inside-Bubbl ... rd_title_0

Kindle e-book
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Inside-Bubbl ... al-text_15

[Boomchild]

An Israeli doctor says: "in Israel, medicine is so advanced that we cut off a man’s testicles, put them on another man and in 6 weeks, he is looking for work.

“The German doctor says: "that’s nothing, in Germany we take part of a brain, put it in another man, and in 4 weeks he is looking for work.

“The Russian doctor says: “gentlemen, we take half a heart from a man, put it in another's chest and in 2 weeks he is looking for work.

“The United States doctor laughs: "You all are behind us. five years ago, we took a man with no brains, no heart and no balls and made him President. Now, the whole country is looking for work !

[The_Noble_Cause]

Their mistake is turning on those in their party they don't agree with. Something that the Democrats learned not to do.

Yea, because Obama's liberal base was just clamoring for a war w/ Libya, expanded surveillance, endless civil liberty trampling, and the biggest giveaway to the health industrial complex since Bush's Medicare Part D.
What are you talking about, dude? The Democratic Party/Obama turns on their hardcore base all the time. It's part of centrist governing. The Tea Party lives in Ayn Rand fantasy land.

[slucero]

No, not exactly. The public will be told Obamacare sucks by the Republican spin machine.

Of course they will. That's politics. Both sides do it.

That is a lot different then the Republican spin machine wasting everybody's time by arguing against something nobody cares about.

So by your hypothesis... people don't care about the cost of their healthcare rising (which then must mean they don't care about Obamacare), and all those people trying to sign up, finding they can't, and seeing their HC costs rising, and/or getting cancellation notices has nothing to do with the their opinion on Obamacare?

It's all because the Republicans are so good at spinning opinion?





If the Republicans were so good at opinion spin, they'd own both houses and the Oval office by now.

[steveo777]

GOP aims to impeach Eric Holder. If this works it could be the precursor to the next largest target - Obama, I feel.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ach-eric-/

[Monker]

No, not exactly. The public will be told Obamacare sucks by the Republican spin machine.

Of course they will. That's politics. Both sides do it.

That is a lot different then the Republican spin machine wasting everybody's time by arguing against something nobody cares about.

So by your hypothesis... people don't care about the cost of their healthcare rising (which then must mean they don't care about Obamacare), and all those people trying to sign up, finding they can't, and seeing their HC costs rising, and/or getting cancellation notices has nothing to do with the their opinion on Obamacare?

It's all because the Republicans are so good at spinning opinion?





If the Republicans were so good at opinion spin, they'd own both houses and the Oval office by now.

No, you said the two scenarios were "just like" each other.

I am saying they're not.

Saying "Obama care sucks" is, as you said, 'just politics' as usual...and it is arguing against something everybody DOES care about.

Nobody cares about Bengazi...so the Republican spin machine will try to MAKE people care about it. I don't know if it will work or not. I doubt it will...it obviously didn't last election.

So, the two situations are NOT 'just like' each other.

[Monker]

If Republicans were smart they would have alienated the TeaParty months ago. Now that radical faction has cost the Republicans a lot of credibility nationally. I said this a long time ago...it divides the party and will cause Republicans problems for years. The center is too liberal for the party (Romney) and the right is too radical for the nation. They're screwed.

Sorry, I don't agree. It's funny how people with true conservative values and look to protect and defend what our Constitution is all about are now considered radicals. The majority in the Republican party no longer represent actual conservative values. Their mistake is turning on those in their party they don't agree with. Something that the Democrats learned not to do. No matter how bad they screw up or are not 100% in line with their party.

Oh, please. In 2010, the Tea Pary supporters were directly responsible for Republicans losing several elections. They were responsible because they supported candidates who had no possibilty of winning their election...at times rejecting candidate, even incumbants, who would have won election easily. Yeah, it was a good election year for Republicans...but they could have won a few more elections.

Now they waste everybody's time shutting down the government to try to defund Obamacare. A strategy which also had no possibility of success. Whether you like it or not, Obamacare is not some bill up for debate. It's not some policy to be debated. It passed Congress and was signed by the President into LAW. Not only that, but it has been ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court. And, it has been attempted to repeal Obamacare a few dozen times, and has always failed.

So, it is therefore the Tea Party who is whining and crying about the Constitutional process and is trying to force something to change in ways that are improper...and do NOT support or defend our Constitution. They need to get over it already and lick their wounds because THEY LOST.

[Monker]

Just think about how far progressives have gotten us....


G. Washington: "I cannot tell a lie."

B. Obama: "I cannot tell the truth."


Somehow this is acceptable to some in the name of political victory.

W: "Uh, I can't tell a lie cuz I don't know what the truth is."
Cheney: "I must lie to you. If I tell you the truth, I'm afraid someone will have to kill you."
McCain: "The fundamentals of the economy really were sound. I mean, I could hear the economy making all kinds of noise and sounds. It talks to me all the time."

[Monker]

and the irony is that the NSA has finally admitted that none of their electronic surveillance has stopped any terrorist attack.

Not. One.

As if that is really what they were after.

Wow, I thought I wrote a reply to this several times...

Your communications have been monitored for more then 50yrs. Every Email, every cell phone call, every fax...all of it...that you have ever communicated has been scanned by the NSA. This isn't something NEW. It's been going on for DECADES. It was happening before cell phones. It was happening before Al Gore invented the internet.

In the early 2000's, W was investigated for these VERY SAME ISSUES. Due do the Patriot Act, W made it LEGAL...so they no longer had a need to 'hide' it...Or, use other countries to spy on the US and give the NSA the data, which is LEGAL.

This type of 'spying' is not limited to terrorism...but ANY type of intelligence gathering.

Here read about it:

http://pubrecord.org/nation/2290/revisi ... elon-nsas/

from 2005:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/clay-water ... ra-echelon

A quote from 60 Minutes, in 1999:

"If you made a phone call today or sent an e-mail to a friend, there's a good chance what you said or wrote was captured and screened by the country's largest intelligence agency. The top-secret Global Surveillance Network is called Echelon, and it's run by the National Security Agency and four English-speaking allies: Canada, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand. The mission is to eavesdrop on enemies of the state: foreign countries, terrorist groups and drug cartels. But in the process, Echelon's computers capture virtually every electronic conversation around the world."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/clay-water ... z2k1C8dLSv

Or, maybe you'd like to know Reagan did it, too:

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/fe ... helon/8773

All Snowden did was repeat something OTHER NSA ex-employees already leaked! Geez, I was arguing about this in the early 2000's on BT's Watercooler forum - 10yrs ago.

Google 'project echelon' and read all about it.

[slucero]

If Republicans were smart they would have alienated the TeaParty months ago. Now that radical faction has cost the Republicans a lot of credibility nationally. I said this a long time ago...it divides the party and will cause Republicans problems for years. The center is too liberal for the party (Romney) and the right is too radical for the nation. They're screwed.

Sorry, I don't agree. It's funny how people with true conservative values and look to protect and defend what our Constitution is all about are now considered radicals. The majority in the Republican party no longer represent actual conservative values. Their mistake is turning on those in their party they don't agree with. Something that the Democrats learned not to do. No matter how bad they screw up or are not 100% in line with their party.

Oh, please. In 2010, the Tea Pary supporters were directly responsible for Republicans losing several elections. They were responsible because they supported candidates who had no possibilty of winning their election...at times rejecting candidate, even incumbants, who would have won election easily. Yeah, it was a good election year for Republicans...but they could have won a few more elections.

Now they waste everybody's time shutting down the government to try to defund Obamacare. A strategy which also had no possibility of success. Whether you like it or not, Obamacare is not some bill up for debate. It's not some policy to be debated. It passed Congress and was signed by the President into LAW. Not only that, but it has been ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court. And, it has been attempted to repeal Obamacare a few dozen times, and has always failed.

So, it is therefore the Tea Party who is whining and crying about the Constitutional process and is trying to force something to change in ways that are improper...and do NOT support or defend our Constitution. They need to get over it already and lick their wounds because THEY LOST.

Roberts ruled it Constitutional.. and a tax...

I'm still trying to figure out how the ACA, which did not originate or ever pass in the House, and which Roberts ruled a "tax"..

jives with the Revenue Clause of the Constitution:

"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."

[slucero]

and the irony is that the NSA has finally admitted that none of their electronic surveillance has stopped any terrorist attack.

Not. One.

As if that is really what they were after.

Wow, I thought I wrote a reply to this several times...

Your communications have been monitored for more then 50yrs. Every Email, every cell phone call, every fax...all of it...that you have ever communicated has been scanned by the NSA. This isn't something NEW. It's been going on for DECADES. It was happening before cell phones. It was happening before Al Gore invented the internet.

In the early 2000's, W was investigated for these VERY SAME ISSUES. Due do the Patriot Act, W made it LEGAL...so they no longer had a need to 'hide' it...Or, use other countries to spy on the US and give the NSA the data, which is LEGAL.

This type of 'spying' is not limited to terrorism...but ANY type of intelligence gathering.

Here read about it:

http://pubrecord.org/nation/2290/revisi ... elon-nsas/

from 2005:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/clay-water ... ra-echelon

A quote from 60 Minutes, in 1999:

"If you made a phone call today or sent an e-mail to a friend, there's a good chance what you said or wrote was captured and screened by the country's largest intelligence agency. The top-secret Global Surveillance Network is called Echelon, and it's run by the National Security Agency and four English-speaking allies: Canada, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand. The mission is to eavesdrop on enemies of the state: foreign countries, terrorist groups and drug cartels. But in the process, Echelon's computers capture virtually every electronic conversation around the world."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/clay-water ... z2k1C8dLSv

Or, maybe you'd like to know Reagan did it, too:

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/fe ... helon/8773

All Snowden did was repeat something OTHER NSA ex-employees already leaked! Geez, I was arguing about this in the early 2000's on BT's Watercooler forum - 10yrs ago.

Google 'project echelon' and read all about it.

doesn't make it right, or Constitutional... I think that's the argument here..

[Monker]

doesn't make it right, or Constitutional... I think that's the argument here..

I didn't say it was right.

But, the Patriot Act made it OK.

Before that, the Constitution didn't apply because it was foreign governments spying on US citizens. Please explain how the Constitution applies to Canada's actions, or Britain's, or Australia's. Yeah, they were using US technology and handing the data over to the NSA...but the NSA wasn't doing the actual spying. So, it was perfectly Constitutional...and if the Patriot Act is withdrawn, or changed, or whatever, that's what they will go back to. They are not going to allow this data to be taken away from them...they will get it one way or another.

The argument here is focused on current events...which I'm sure the NSA loves that. It's much better to do that then focus on the full scope of over 50yrs of spying on US citizens. There were also comments (TNC) of expanded surveillance (not true, it's always happened) and Obama's transparency promise. To be fully transparent, he has to admit 60yrs of spying on the people...no President is going to do that.

The problem here is the culture of the secret services. They feel they can get by with everything because they always have. Changing parties in the Presidency or Congress isn't going to help when the problem in the culture of the secret services. We are decades and trillions of dollars invested into projects like Echelon...it's too big to fail.

[Memorex]

We didn't decide to create a government and send people to represent us so we could be lied to and have information withheld from us. It's gotten so upside down. The government rules us now. Has for a long time. This is not a Democrat or Republican thing. Obama just happens to have pretended to be outraged and he's the one that stood on the soapbox to get elected. He brought that on himself when he did the exact opposite once in office.

We can't argue things if we don't know they are happening. We can't be against something that we don't even know is occurring.

If the Republicans or Conservatives here want to be outraged by all this, fine. But it's not an Obama thing and they should have spoken up years ago - before Obama. This policy should be debated based on whether or not a person thinks it's a good policy. Because you are right - it will continue and worsen under each president, no matter what party. At least until a candidate really wants to do something about it.

As far as Obama - it's just another in a long like of broken campaign promises. I don't think I've ever witnessed so many broken promises, especially when he then blames the American public for misunderstanding his words - all the time.

[slucero]

doesn't make it right, or Constitutional... I think that's the argument here..

I didn't say it was right.

But, the Patriot Act made it OK.

Before that, the Constitution didn't apply because it was foreign governments spying on US citizens. Please explain how the Constitution applies to Canada's actions, or Britain's, or Australia's. Yeah, they were using US technology and handing the data over to the NSA...but the NSA wasn't doing the actual spying. So, it was perfectly Constitutional...and if the Patriot Act is withdrawn, or changed, or whatever, that's what they will go back to. They are not going to allow this data to be taken away from them...they will get it one way or another.

The argument here is focused on current events...which I'm sure the NSA loves that. It's much better to do that then focus on the full scope of over 50yrs of spying on US citizens. There were also comments (TNC) of expanded surveillance (not true, it's always happened) and Obama's transparency promise. To be fully transparent, he has to admit 60yrs of spying on the people...no President is going to do that.

The problem here is the culture of the secret services. They feel they can get by with everything because they always have. Changing parties in the Presidency or Congress isn't going to help when the problem in the culture of the secret services. We are decades and trillions of dollars invested into projects like Echelon...it's too big to fail.

completley agree.