President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Memorex]

Even Bill Clinton knew this OBozocare was a glorified healthcare Ponzi scheme. Listen to him stumping it on youtube vids. He specifically states that in order for it to work, young people need to enroll in it. Yeah, because most young people require very little health care upkeep so they are paying into the system and not taking out of it.

That's how an insurance pool works - period! You fucking dumbass.

You seem so angry to me. Like, all the time. We should learn to accept that some people believe in different things. Doesn't make them bad people. We all have a story to tell. We all have our struggles. We all used to be a lot more than our political affiliations.

That said - the insurance market always self adjusted based on how many sick people could be treated vs how many people required no treatment, but still paid in. It never worked by forcing things on people that they didn't want.

[The Sushi Hunter]

So now the open enrollment for business has been pushed back until after the election. This administration has become the most politically-motivated and manipulative power-hungry administration in my memory.

If you think something is good for the country, then stand behind it. Cowards.

If you like your healthcare you can keep it,....until after the 2014 elections.

Yeah, that's really funny hearing OBozo say that and then looking at how many policy cancelation letters have been sent out so far and how many are expected to be sent out. How many millions again?

[Memorex]

Had our open enrollment meeting yesterday at work. As expected, my premiums went up and up and up. Sweet. Can't wait to pay even more for the same coverage. Can't afford it.

Speaking of can't afford it, is it me or does it seem like the price of everything has gone up? Gas has gone down some, which is good. But in spring it will bounce up to new highs, I imagine. But all my utility bills are higher and just life in general seems to be getting harder and harder. Even my car insurance went up and None of us have had tickets or an accident in years and years. Weird.

[verslibre]

Had our open enrollment meeting yesterday at work. As expected, my premiums went up and up and up. Sweet. Can't wait to pay even more for the same coverage. Can't afford it.

Speaking of can't afford it, is it me or does it seem like the price of everything has gone up? Gas has gone down some, which is good. But in spring it will bounce up to new highs, I imagine. But all my utility bills are higher and just life in general seems to be getting harder and harder. Even my car insurance went up and None of us have had tickets or an accident in years and years. Weird.

Everything has gone up and doesn't go as far as it once did. Packages of food continue to go up in price and go down in size. Look at those incredible shrinking Triscuits boxes!

[Boomchild]

Right now? I think it's a fig leaf for right wing whack jobs like you to shoot up Town Hall meetings and maim and debilitate people like Gabby Giffords. I'm sure FactFinder raised a cold PBR and celebrated that news as soon as it came over his AM radio. I have no respect for any of you filthy swine.

LOL As if all those involved in the recent mass shootings have been part of the right wing. I remember that the person responsible for the shootings at the military location near D.C. was a known supporter of B.O. The fact is it's not the guns, it's the people that commit such acts that are the problem. Crazy people come from all sorts of backgrounds. Take away the guns and they will just find another route to kill people on mass. It's got nothing to do with the right for the average law biding citizen wanting to exercise their right to own a firearm for personal protection. Something that people have done since the time of this country's founding. You speak about conservatives having conspiracies, this is ones yours.

[Boomchild]

Speaking of can't afford it, is it me or does it seem like the price of everything has gone up? Gas has gone down some, which is good. But in spring it will bounce up to new highs, I imagine. But all my utility bills are higher and just life in general seems to be getting harder and harder. Even my car insurance went up and None of us have had tickets or an accident in years and years. Weird.

You think that's bad, just wait till the days of hyper inflation.

[Boomchild]

The Disastrous Launch Of Obamacare Has Caused A Remarkable Collapse In Democratic Poll Numbers


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/disastrou ... arebuttons



It's only going to get worse.

Somehow, I think things will bounce back for them before the next election period. The fools and the ones that have been duped before will fall for their tactics all over again. Besides as time goes on, I find that our elections are turning into a joke year after year.

[trekman]

It was suggested I post this here in this thread, so I am. Anyone else have thoughts on it?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

trekman wrote:Im guessing this is directed towards me? I would have thought with all your personal attacks against others when you speak, that actually telling us your ideas & thoughts on the above subjects would be something you wouldnt hesitate to let everyone here know about.



Like I said in the Obama thread, (where this question actually belongs), it is painfully obvious that you, as well as most of the ConservaTeaTards, have little interaction with opposing viewpoints. The fact that you need me to expound on my viewpoints, as if I am an alien visitor from another planet, only confirms this.

trekman wrote:We only think we know who & what you are....can you, will you, prove to us your not what we think you are?



Oh boy, you're a regular little Joe McCarthy, aren't you? I have nothing to prove to you, punk. I come to MR.com for my own information and entertainment purposes. I have no obligation to make up for all the time you mis-spent smoking pot in the bathroom during your High School civics class.

trekman wrote:I have no shame saying to the world im a conservative that wants nothing to do with the government.



That's anarchy, you simpleton. Not Conservatism



Ok, Thanks for your answer. Personally I and probably most here have no problem with debate. Everyone has a view point and should be allowed to express it. I wont do it with someone Im having a conversation with and I would ask the same of them. There is No reason for personally attacking someone.

[slucero]

TNC's an unabashed liberal.

Nothing wrong with that. He's entitled to his opinions.


The personal attack stuff sucks.. but we're all guilty of it (I've done it to TNC and I'm not proud of it) and Andrew allows it, as there really is no moderation on this BB.

If there was an "ignore" function on this board it would likely get used. But there isn't .. so the only obvious way is to simply not engage or respond with someone you disagree with, who responds with personal attacks.

[Memorex]

I don't like the personal stuff. To say that someone feels a certain way simply because someone in the media believes it is a silly argument.

If someone is not a free thinker - fine - that's most of the country and that includes probably the majority of voters on both sides. But if anyone engages in a debate at any level I assume they are free thinkers. I don't think anyone who has contributed to this thread did so because they were told what to think.

I'm angry that our government - on both sides of the aisle - refuses to optimize our dollars at any level. It's the single most wasteful organization on the planet. They burden small business with insane and arbitrary regulations, they spend far more money on things and services than they are worth, they want to dish out money to those simply raising their hand without fixing the underlying problem. Our tax dollars are sent into a the vast wasteland that is government. I don't feel that way cause anyone told me to. I feel that way because it's true. It is honestly factually true.

Now, you can support an organization like that and that's fine. If someone feels that the most good can be done by implementing this huge, intrusive machine, than fine. I don't think you believe that because you are an idiot or have been told to think it. For me personally, I think it comes from seeing a path to fairness that is unrealistic and unsustainable. But smarter folks than I have made the case for socialism. So to think someone an idiot over it is silly.

Same with social fears. Some people truly believe that society suffers when we lessen our moral values or what they perceive as moral values. Right or wrong, that's America and it's ok if we aren't perfect in those people's eyes. We don't have to be. But people aren't against abortion because they are ignorant and bad people. It's their belief system.

To look at someone that believes a certain way and think them an idiot for those beliefs says more negative about you than them.

TNC - as rude as you have been, I find it so odd that you say no one else is a free thinker and that everyone else follows certain people and cannot think for themselves. I don't recall you giving an inch on anything. And that's ok - if you believe something then defend it. But just because other people have strong beliefs on the other side doesn't mean they are any less of a free thinker than you.

[AR]

There are times when I miss some of the personal attacks from the old days.

I've met TNC in person. Good guy. I am more of a Libertarian so politically maybe not in agreement with his posts on that subject, but I respect his opinion.

No need to get offended by message board posts where we are all semi-anonymous. Just keep the arguments going and make it entertaining.

[Memorex]

There are times when I miss some of the personal attacks from the old days.

I've met TNC in person. Good guy. I am more of a Libertarian so politically maybe not in agreement with his posts on that subject, but I respect his opinion.

No need to get offended by message board posts where we are all semi-anonymous. Just keep the arguments going and make it entertaining.

Fuck you.

[trekman]

There are times when I miss some of the personal attacks from the old days.

I've met TNC in person. Good guy. I am more of a Libertarian so politically maybe not in agreement with his posts on that subject, but I respect his opinion.

No need to get offended by message board posts where we are all semi-anonymous. Just keep the arguments going and make it entertaining.

Im not offended either, I just didnt think it was necessary to get the message/point across.

[Monker]

Even Bill Clinton knew this OBozocare was a glorified healthcare Ponzi scheme. Listen to him stumping it on youtube vids. He specifically states that in order for it to work, young people need to enroll in it. Yeah, because most young people require very little health care upkeep so they are paying into the system and not taking out of it.

That's how an insurance pool works - period! You fucking dumbass.

Having the Government run it like how they run the IRS makes it a completely different scheme altogether. Plus like life insurance, that is optional and it's not forced upon us to get by the government....yet.

TNC is right, you are an idiot. It's how insurance works. Why do you think a group plan is cheaper then an individual plan? If you knew even the very basics of insurance, you would know this. You are just making shit up to criticize...and you sound like a complete idiot because of it.

So next the Government is going to make everyone pay for auto insurance regardless if they own a car and drive or not? If they can somehow bring in revenue (tax) they will.

If they did, it would make insurance cheaper for everybody - it's a fact.

The bottom line is if you are alive, you are a detriment to the system if you don't have health insurance. If you are in an accident, or have a sudden life threatening illness, you end up in the emergency room and EVERYBODY PAYS FOR YOUR CARE IF YOU CAN"T AFFORD IT.

Again, that is just a fact. You are paying for all these people one way or the other.

OBozocare is just another way of the government extracting money from hard working Americans, with the perks of being able to choose and decide who pays what amount and to whom gets the healthcare. Plain and simple!

.

And, Republican care of going to the emergency room for a bad cold or the flu and forcing everybody to pay for it anyway is hell of a lot worse. And, all this about people who gets what care and 'death panels' is simple bullshit.

[Monker]

Always remember: The higher, the fewer.

It was suggested I post this here in this thread, so I am. Anyone else have thoughts on it?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

trekman wrote:Im guessing this is directed towards me? I would have thought with all your personal attacks against others when you speak, that actually telling us your ideas & thoughts on the above subjects would be something you wouldnt hesitate to let everyone here know about.



Like I said in the Obama thread, (where this question actually belongs), it is painfully obvious that you, as well as most of the ConservaTeaTards, have little interaction with opposing viewpoints. The fact that you need me to expound on my viewpoints, as if I am an alien visitor from another planet, only confirms this.

trekman wrote:We only think we know who & what you are....can you, will you, prove to us your not what we think you are?



Oh boy, you're a regular little Joe McCarthy, aren't you? I have nothing to prove to you, punk. I come to MR.com for my own information and entertainment purposes. I have no obligation to make up for all the time you mis-spent smoking pot in the bathroom during your High School civics class.

trekman wrote:I have no shame saying to the world im a conservative that wants nothing to do with the government.



That's anarchy, you simpleton. Not Conservatism



Ok, Thanks for your answer. Personally I and probably most here have no problem with debate. Everyone has a view point and should be allowed to express it. I wont do it with someone Im having a conversation with and I would ask the same of them. There is No reason for personally attacking someone.

[Monker]

Even Bill Clinton knew this OBozocare was a glorified healthcare Ponzi scheme. Listen to him stumping it on youtube vids. He specifically states that in order for it to work, young people need to enroll in it. Yeah, because most young people require very little health care upkeep so they are paying into the system and not taking out of it.

That's how an insurance pool works - period! You fucking dumbass.

You seem so angry to me. Like, all the time. We should learn to accept that some people believe in different things. Doesn't make them bad people. We all have a story to tell. We all have our struggles. We all used to be a lot more than our political affiliations.

That said - the insurance market always self adjusted based on how many sick people could be treated vs how many people required no treatment, but still paid in. It never worked by forcing things on people that they didn't want.

You are correct...you have to accept that some people have the belief that their opinions are facts even though they are baseless and not grounded in reality. So, yeah, they can go about spouting crazy words about government Ponzi schemes and remain ignorant because they shroud themselves from the facts, and reality.

In short, people have the right to be stupid. Get used to it.

[AR]

I don't want my premiums to go up to cover others. Selfish? Sure, but I'm honest about it.

Health care is not a "right". It is a service you pay for.

Can't afford it? Work harder or die.

Fixing the prescription drug costs would have a better thing to try to solve. Do not tell me what coverage I have to have.

The fact that Obamacare gives the IRS more power is the ultimate red flag.

[slucero]

nah... the red flag was spending $650 Million for that website..

[AR]

nah... the red flag was spending $650 Million for that website..

Well yes there was that as well.

I mean, Amazon and ebay can handle massive traffic, but our Big Brother government who thinks they know what is better for us can't get a website right?

And we should trust this bunch with our health??????

[steveo777]

I've had healthcare insurance for years at every employer I've ever worked at. If an employer didn't offer insurance, I didn't take the job.....simple as that. I'm 54 years old, have raised my kids, and have always had employer sponsored healthcare insurance. We raised a family and never for one minute thought that our plans were substandard or junk, as this administration would have you believe. Our plan's cost just went down because of my tenure and the increased subsidy my employer pays. That is how it should work......not me having my income stripped because certain people don't want to pull their own wagon. There are people who need help and there are people who want help, while doing little for themselves, even though they could. I'm all for a portion of my taxes going to help those who can't help the situation they are in. I am not for any redistribution of wealth program, which is going to weaken the middle class or destroy it, because some socialist agenda is suddenly sweeping the country, which coincidentally, happens to be a much larger issue under this president.

There are still over 1/3 of the people who support this guy, even though he has proven to be a habitual liar with multi-faceted agendas. WHY?

Probably the greatest thing we could all do is stop fighting with each other about our beliefs and start fighting the government, which no longer works for us.

[Boomchild]

TNC is right, you are an idiot. It's how insurance works. Why do you think a group plan is cheaper then an individual plan? If you knew even the very basics of insurance, you would know this. You are just making shit up to criticize...and you sound like a complete idiot because of it.

Speaking of these "group plans", your right the premiums are lower then individual plans. Everyone in the group plan pays the same premium based on the level of coverage they choose. No one gets a free ride. Which is different from the ACA program.

And, Republican care of going to the emergency room for a bad cold or the flu and forcing everybody to pay for it anyway is hell of a lot worse. And, all this about people who gets what care and 'death panels' is simple bullshit.

Actually, according to a report by our very own government shows that a larger amount of people with Medicaid (which is a form of coverage) end up going to the ER for non urgent issues then those without coverage. Having coverage won't stop people from making the decision to go to the ER for non urgent issues. It doesn't improve their intelligence.

[Boomchild]

nah... the red flag was spending $650 Million for that website..

Well yes there was that as well.

I mean, Amazon and ebay can handle massive traffic, but our Big Brother government who thinks they know what is better for us can't get a website right?

And we should trust this bunch with our health??????

All you need to do is look how the government has run Medicare to get an idea of how the new ACA will end up. They have proven that they cannot control costs, limit the waste and effectively stop the abuse and fraud. They have screwed up on one of the most basic parts of the operation, enrollment. In the hearings it came out that even after three years of work large parts of the system are not even completed. Which includes the premium payment process. Then there is the issue of personal data not being secure. Which anyone should find unacceptable. We keep being told that this is great and affordable for every American yet our own elected officials demanded that tax payers pay 75% of their premiums. If they can't pay their own way based on their income level how do they expect the average citizen to?

[Boomchild]

Probably the greatest thing we could all do is stop fighting with each other about our beliefs and start fighting the government, which no longer works for us.

This makes sense but some feel that what this administration is doing is working for the people.

[trekman]

This kind of Insane talk Really scares me. To even think some ARE talking about it.

"With President Obama's job-approval numbers down sharply, Zimmerman indicates that the nation's chief executive is perhaps being hampered by the fact that he's in his final term, giving GOP opponents and even Democrats little incentive to support him on issues that might hurt their own re-election chances.

To illustrate his point, he uses two topics in the headlines: the implemention of the new health care law and the nuclear agreement with Iran.

He writes:

"Many of Obama’s fellow Democrats have distanced themselves from the reform and from the president. Even former president Bill Clinton has said that Americans should be allowed to keep the health insurance they have. Or consider the reaction to the Iran nuclear deal. Regardless of his political approval ratings, Obama could expect Republican senators such as Lindsey Graham (S.C.) and John McCain (Ariz.) to attack the agreement. But if Obama could run again, would he be facing such fervent objections from Sens. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Robert Menendez (D-N.J.)? Probably not. Democratic lawmakers would worry about provoking the wrath of a president who could be reelected. Thanks to term limits, though, they’ve got little to fear."

Zimmerman adds, "Nor does Obama have to fear the voters, which might be the scariest problem of all. If he chooses, he could simply ignore their will. And if the people wanted him to serve another term, why shouldn’t they be allowed to award him one?"

The full article is here: http://news.yahoo.com/presidential-term ... 26518.html

[Seven Wishes]

My, how Atlas has Shrugged. With the retirement of Wal-Mart CEO Michael Duke, much has been made of his compensation package. The comments have been astonishing - most of all those who will stop at nothing to defend this quintessential example of profit-at-all-cost of corporate greed.

Wal-Mart made $17 billion in PROFITS in 2013 while exploiting and abusing its employees, almost half of whom qualify for food stamps. When did it become necessary for people to support, without exception, the extreme wings of their respective parties? Dis-infotainers like Limbaugh and Hannity conveniently cherry-pick the Constitution as a matter of routine.

The subjective and relatively recent subjugation of the Second Amendment, vis a vis the interpretation that it unilaterally protects the right to bear arms, for example - this is only referenced when it fits the narrative for Fox News. Anyway, according to the AP, Mike Duke made $20.7 in salary and stock options; he cashed out his pension at $113 million. All told, he made about $31 million per year for his 16 years of service in various positions at Wal-Mart. None to shabby, considering the starvation wages his company pays its workers

[Boomchild]

My, how Atlas has Shrugged. With the retirement of Wal-Mart CEO Michael Duke, much has been made of his compensation package. The comments have been astonishing - most of all those who will stop at nothing to defend this quintessential example of profit-at-all-cost of corporate greed.

Wal-Mart made $17 billion in PROFITS in 2013 while exploiting and abusing its employees, almost half of whom qualify for food stamps. When did it become necessary for people to support, without exception, the extreme wings of their respective parties? Dis-infotainers like Limbaugh and Hannity conveniently cherry-pick the Constitution as a matter of routine.

The subjective and relatively recent subjugation of the Second Amendment, vis a vis the interpretation that it unilaterally protects the right to bear arms, for example - this is only referenced when it fits the narrative for Fox News. Anyway, according to the AP, Mike Duke made $20.7 in salary and stock options; he cashed out his pension at $113 million. All told, he made about $31 million per year for his 16 years of service in various positions at Wal-Mart. None to shabby, considering the starvation wages his company pays its workers

Last I checked, Walmart is not the only company that employs people in this country. What happened to the idea that if your not happy with what you are making at your current job you look for another one as well as improve your skills to qualify for a better one?

[steveo777]

My, how Atlas has Shrugged. With the retirement of Wal-Mart CEO Michael Duke, much has been made of his compensation package. The comments have been astonishing - most of all those who will stop at nothing to defend this quintessential example of profit-at-all-cost of corporate greed.

Wal-Mart made $17 billion in PROFITS in 2013 while exploiting and abusing its employees, almost half of whom qualify for food stamps. When did it become necessary for people to support, without exception, the extreme wings of their respective parties? Dis-infotainers like Limbaugh and Hannity conveniently cherry-pick the Constitution as a matter of routine.

The subjective and relatively recent subjugation of the Second Amendment, vis a vis the interpretation that it unilaterally protects the right to bear arms, for example - this is only referenced when it fits the narrative for Fox News. Anyway, according to the AP, Mike Duke made $20.7 in salary and stock options; he cashed out his pension at $113 million. All told, he made about $31 million per year for his 16 years of service in various positions at Wal-Mart. None to shabby, considering the starvation wages his company pays its workers

Last I checked, Walmart is not the only company that employs people in this country. What happened to the idea that if your not happy with what you are making at your current job you look for another one as well as improve your skills to qualify for a better one?

Liberals don't get this shit. They want un-earned liberty and un-earned justice for all. They could give a shit about our founding fathers, your grandfather, or your father's righteous labors to make this world a better place. Nevermind the fact that all of the above mentioned were veterans, tradesmen, businessmen, visionaries & great builders of the free world and its economy. Liberals want to tear it all down, make everyone a "common man", elect politicians who will ensure that nobody has to work for housing or food.......or medical benefits. Where do these people think money comes from? I'll tell you exactly where it comes from; People working hard and exchanging products and services....people using their backbone, making furniture, building homes, cultivating farms, manufacturing great products. I still believe in America. I still believe in hard work. I still believe that we are a proper, God fearing people, who have a certain ethic, moral and desire for greatness. I'm not willing to sacrifice any of my ideals, so that we may enable people to just sit on their ass everyday, assuming that the government will take care of their wants and needs, while they do nothing to improve their circumstances. Fuck these lard asses....seriously!

We have too many able bodied people who have decided that it's easier to be fed than to hunt. We live in a generation where parents just don't lead anymore. Make a bunch of kids and let the older kids take care of the younger kids. Let the TV, Computer and the public school raise them......after all, kids require time, and we are just too busy, trying to earn income, pay the bills. When we're not earning money, we need to socialize, drink, smoke weed....the week was just too stressfull.....and these damn kids!

No wonder we're in the mess we are in. No wonder we have a government like we have. People, in general, just don't know much. Very sad!

[Seven Wishes]

Where the hell do you drudge up this shit? Boy, you really drink the Cool-Aid, don't you? What is this misconception that anyone on the left side of the spectrum is a lazy, good-for-nothing moocher?

I've worked my ass off my whole life - never collected unemployment. I've made good money at times, and not so much at other times. No matter where I fall on the economic spectrum, I have empathy. I want to help take care of those less fortunate than myself. You're only as strong as your weakest link.

As long as anachronistic neo-conservative closet fascists like you don't overly infiltrate the gene pool - often using your "religion" as a sword, I might add - the reality that we're all in this together will never be lost on the majority. So, keep bleating and blabbering away. Don't let me stop you.

Incidentally, this little table should help clear up any misconceptions about whose economic policies create more jobs. That retraction (austerity) slows economic growth and increases unemployment is an unassailable fact.

President Avg. % Rate Change Per Year
Truman (D) -0.15
Eisenhower (R) 0.357
Kenedy (D) 0.066
Johnson (D) -0.42
Nixon (R) 0.333
Ford (R) 0.933
Carter (D) -0.15
Regan (R) -0.2
Bush I (R) 0.5
Clinton (D) -0.438
Bush II (R) 0.263

[slucero]

Where the hell do you drudge up this shit? Boy, you really drink the Cool-Aid, don't you? What is this misconception that anyone on the left side of the spectrum is a lazy, good-for-nothing moocher?

I've worked my ass off my whole life - never collected unemployment. I've made good money at times, and not so much at other times. No matter where I fall on the economic spectrum, I have empathy. I want to help take care of those less fortunate than myself. You're only as strong as your weakest link.

As long as anachronistic neo-conservative closet fascists like you don't overly infiltrate the gene pool - often using your "religion" as a sword, I might add - the reality that we're all in this together will never be lost on the majority. So, keep bleating and blabbering away. Don't let me stop you.

Incidentally, this little table should help clear up any misconceptions about whose economic policies create more jobs. That retraction (austerity) slows economic growth and increases unemployment is an unassailable fact.

President Avg. % Rate Change Per Year
Truman (D) -0.15
Eisenhower (R) 0.357
Kenedy (D) 0.066
Johnson (D) -0.42
Nixon (R) 0.333
Ford (R) 0.933
Carter (D) -0.15
Regan (R) -0.2
Bush I (R) 0.5
Clinton (D) -0.438
Bush II (R) 0.263

That depends on how one measures economic decline or growth.. and the lag those policies incur from inception to effect. Honestly, I think government finance policyl has little effect on things economically, whereas central banking policy has huge ramifications.

Can you provide the source for that data? I'd love to chart it against Fed rates.


Look at World GDP vs. World equity and asset values. (shown below)



World GDP is plunging in diverging contrast to world asset and equity values nominally exploding.

Clearly the pain is being felt at the middle to lower class levels.. as incomes are declining, and jobs are scarcer... For those people, austerity comes as a consequence. They tighten their belts. Spend less. IF US GDP is sub 2% (and it is if one removes the .8 that accounted for inventories in the last report) then who is buying all the crap? It certainly isn't the US consumer, who accounts for 70% of US GDP.

At a macro level, there is only one thing that is forcing austerity on the whole of individual economies (and nations), and that is falling demand. It is the ultimate cause, and business deals with falling demand the way it always has, layoffs, technology improvement, etc..

In the US.. companies have maxed out their downsizing and and output levels, and while long used measures of economic health at the macro level (DOW, S&P, GDP) say "better"... the indicators of economic health at the micro level (Labor Force Participation Rate, U-6 Rate, Wages) say "not better"..


IMHO the real question has to be: How can Wall Street equity prices be at all time highs... while the man on Main Street is earning at all time lows? What is causing normally convergent indicators to now diverge?


The answer is Fed policy.

• 1.02 Tillion per year, 85 Billion a month. Nearly 7% of annual US GDP ($14 Trillion) is made of up Quantitative Easing!
• Zero Interest Rate Policy (ZIRP) that allows banks to borrow at "0%" and then speculate on the open market via their trading desks. (because Dodd-Frank didn't close what Glass-Steagal had previously banned)

The problem here is deflation.. which is what the Fed is desperately trying to stave off, because it (deflation) is a natural consequence of falling demand, and directly contrary to an economy that requires "constant growth" (read: inflation).

The Fed policy is indicative of a mindset that believes pumping trillions into an economy will spur growth (demand)... which has not happened because simply injecting money into the economy does not create demand. There has to be a some industry that needs easy money and consumers wanting access for demand to occur. Just like the dot-com boom, and the housing boom. Both fueled by Fed ZIRP. The problem this time is the that the money is not entering the Main Street economy. It's only entering Wall Street. One need only examine those diverging indicators to see the truth for what it is.

What is happening now is the precursor to deflation. Diminishing returns for the Trillions being put in. Just compare to the dotcom and housing boom.

The Fed has been "pushing on a string".


My sister is a data integration specialist with FedX, she integrates FedX software with corporate shipping departments with Fedx .. and she says its "insanely slow"... that is demand falling.... and that is not normal for her before the holidays.

[Boomchild]

No matter where I fall on the economic spectrum, I have empathy. I want to help take care of those less fortunate than myself. You're only as strong as your weakest link.

I see no problem with empathy towards people that are less fortunate. What I think people have a problem with are those that abuse the systems that are in place to help the less fortunate. Those that are able bodied and instead choose not work and take a handout. Those that work the system by having more children to increase their government benefits. Those that are in the bad financial positions because of poor personal choices. Those that are on the food stamp programs and instead of using it for what it is for sell the amount on their EBT cards for cash. These are just a few examples. These programs would be much more effective if they were designed to give people a hand up instead of a handout. They would also be more effective if they were managed to weed out the abuse and fraud. Our government has an obligation to the tax payers to do that. But they really don't. Their excuse is they don't have the man power to do it among other things. If we have an unemployment problem in this country why not hire and train people so the government has the ability to do just that? One reason is that keeping people on government programs leads to votes for politicians that support and create more of them. The issue I have with some liberals and people on the left is that they seem to ignore or will not admit that there is abuse and fraud in our entitlement systems. There has be reform to these systems because our government cannot continue to function with the way they are operating. Unless you want to change it to a socialistic government were the government collects all the money and hands it out based on what they think you are worth. That's not something I am interested in becoming.