Toto's incredible new setlist.

[WalrusOct9]

Have they filmed a show yet? They usually do in Europe

Not yet. Depends on whether a label will pony up the production costs, not sure whether putting out a 3rd live video in 8 years would be appealing to the band or a label. I'm sure they'll do some dates in 2016 though, and probably film one, if there's label interest.

[Ehwmatt]

Yeah, but the problem with your theory is that Luke has explicitly said they chose certain songs because they were playing with Yes and to the "Yes crowd," not to generally "dispel misconceptions" that the band is "yacht rock." Maybe that's two sides of the same coin. As I said before, I think it really cuts both ways with the bands if you apply this theory. There could just as easily be a bunch of people who were 20-25 in the early 80s and who thus are primarily going to see Toto and expecting Yes to do cuts like "Love Will Find a Way" and the ones you mentioned. In fact, I'm guessing a lot of diehard Yes fans are skipping this tour. Losing Anderson undoubtedly cost them some diehards, and I'm sure Squire dying led to a bunch more giving up on Yes like I've given up on Journey. So, all in all, again, I don't know why Toto felt the need to cater to "Yes fans."

I think Yes has seen diminishing returns for several years now. I mean, I had only seen the 'real' Yes once, in 2004, so I went to see them last year, because it was a great venue (The Ryman in Nashville), and they were doing Close To The Edge, and, well, I figured it was probably the last chance to at least see 3/5ths of a band I really, really loved. It was enjoyable, but once I saw it, I didn't really need to see it again, and I'm sure a lot of other Yes fans feel the same way. I saw this tour at Freedom Hill in Detroit, which has a pavilion capacity of 4,400, and even that wasn't sold out (not embarrassingly empty, but plenty of empty seats towards the back).

I basically have no problems with the setlist (other than wanting a lot more), so I'm really just lamenting that Toto felt pressured to cater to anybody in their setlist this year. If they really did, it's more evidence that Toto should pair up with a more logical touring partner - Night Ranger, Journey, Foreigner, Survivor, REO, whomever else of that ilk.

Hey, it's better than when they toured with McDonald. I'm sure the band would love to tour with more of a hard rock band, but it's really not up to them. It's all managers, promoters, etc. Journey would make sense, but Luke can't just call his buddy Neal and make that happen. Toto also doesn't have a whole lot of clout in the US touring market at the moment, so while they have veto power, they also aren't going to turn down a pairing that would get them out in front of bigger crowds in more cities than they could play on their own. It's just all about money, sadly.

I'd much rather see (and be willing to travel to see) Toto just play on their own, these package tours just end up cutting everyone's set short and leaving you kind of unfulfilled if you're a serious fan of either band.

Toto on their own would definitely be ideal. I question Toto's management in the booking/promotion choices that get made. For instance, Toto's never once made it here to Cleveland. All AOR bands draw well here, and there are plenty of sensible venues that Toto could play with or without other acts. Even Survivor, whom I love but who's indisputably a lesser name than the Journeys and REOs of the world, played our Hard Rock Rocksino last August (one of JJ's last shows before he died), and it was sold out. Pretty much every other band of this ilk comes through here at least once a year. Why hasn't Toto? Maybe there are reasons I don't understand, but without knowing more, it's baffling that they wouldn't come here.

[Sundet]

For instance, Toto's never once made it here to Cleveland. All AOR bands draw well here, and there are plenty of sensible venues that Toto could play with or without other acts. Even Survivor, whom I love but who's indisputably a lesser name than the Journeys and REOs of the world, played our Hard Rock Rocksino last August (one of JJ's last shows before he died), and it was sold out. Pretty much every other band of this ilk comes through here at least once a year. Why hasn't Toto? Maybe there are reasons I don't understand, but without knowing more, it's baffling that they wouldn't come here.

Well, there is a certain TV broadcast from 1979 that would dispute the claim that Toto's never once made it to Cleveland...

Lo and behold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g50YoC6cFes

What is more, as far as venues and cities go, it's not up to the band, but management, agencies, record companies and, above all, promoters. If no promoters in Cleveland have been interested in booking the band for the last 36 years, there's only so much the band can do.

[DracIsBack]

If no promoters in Cleveland have been interested in booking the band for the last 36 years, there's only so much the band can do.

You beat me to it. That's really the situation. Toto has absolutely done major US tours since "waning" in popularity in that market ... both Kingdom of Desire and Falling In Between had a lot of US shows. They also lost money on them.

As Sundet said, if no promotor is willing to pop up a guarantee that covers their costs, it gets problematic. Toto is an expensive machine to keep on the road.

That said, over the last few years, things seem to be changing in the US. Smart managers have gotten them added to festivals, on co-headline tours and the band seems excited about it.

In essence, they seem to be building a resurgence in their live audience here, much as they built it up in Europe in the 1980s.

The fact that they've even played within a three hour drive of me three summers in a row is pretty astonishing for me.

[Ehwmatt]

For instance, Toto's never once made it here to Cleveland. All AOR bands draw well here, and there are plenty of sensible venues that Toto could play with or without other acts. Even Survivor, whom I love but who's indisputably a lesser name than the Journeys and REOs of the world, played our Hard Rock Rocksino last August (one of JJ's last shows before he died), and it was sold out. Pretty much every other band of this ilk comes through here at least once a year. Why hasn't Toto? Maybe there are reasons I don't understand, but without knowing more, it's baffling that they wouldn't come here.

Well, there is a certain TV broadcast from 1979 that would dispute the claim that Toto's never once made it to Cleveland...

Lo and behold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g50YoC6cFes

What is more, as far as venues and cities go, it's not up to the band, but management, agencies, record companies and, above all, promoters. If no promoters in Cleveland have been interested in booking the band for the last 36 years, there's only so much the band can do.

Well, I should've clarified that I meant Toto hasn't been here in the time I've been following the band. I was -7 in 1979, so I wasn't around to see that one. At any rate, my Cleveland example is just an anecdotal one because it's what I know. It's bigger than Cleveland. Just look at the limited cities Toto played in the US in the last 10-15 years and compare it to those that Journey, REO, Def Leppard, Styx, and even the current iteration of Foreigner played in the same time period. Something's not right. I don't buy that promoters will book all those bands in all these cities but run screaming from Toto.

[WalrusOct9]

They haven't played Nashville either, which is strange since the musician population alone (not to mention presumably the many friends/family they have who live here) would fill a decent-sized venue.

But also remember they can't just play random shows in places like Cleveland or Nashville, and if a promoter or their management can't route a successful run of dates that happens to geographically coincide with your city, it's not going to happen. This is why most of the tours I want to see never make it to Nashville...we're too out of the way from the 5 cities non-American bands have actually heard of.

[JohnH]

Well I got a gig Sat so no Toto this year. I really cannot stand another great band limp band bill again so this takes me out of my misery over it. I enjoyed their headlining single act shows I've seen in 2006 and 2012, nobody but themselves to blow off the stage. Lynyrd Skynyrd used to just wipe out anybody like Frampton that dared follow - except for The Whoand Toto are in that boat right now. They definitely need to partner up with Styx, Journey or Nightranger, somebody that hits the stage and takes no prisoners .

[DracIsBack]

[ I don't buy that promoters will book all those bands in all these cities but run screaming from Toto.

I have a good old interview from the Toto fanclub newsletter in the 1990s where that's exactly what Luke says. That they had a hard time getting on an arena gig as an opening act and that many promoters just weren't interested.

Fortunately, that really does seem to be changing (finally) which is why we're seeing a lot more US dates now. But I guess it takes time. Toto seems to have tackled this as a "four year plan".

Year 1 was a lot of them playing festivals

Year 2 was them playing with Michael McDonald

Year 3 was them playing with Yes

Year 4, accounting to Luke, is for them to have built up enough demand to go out on their own in the USA.

[Ehwmatt]

[ I don't buy that promoters will book all those bands in all these cities but run screaming from Toto.

I have a good old interview from the Toto fanclub newsletter in the 1990s where that's exactly what Luke says. That they had a hard time getting on an arena gig as an opening act and that many promoters just weren't interested.

Fortunately, that really does seem to be changing (finally) which is why we're seeing a lot more US dates now. But I guess it takes time. Toto seems to have tackled this as a "four year plan".

Year 1 was a lot of them playing festivals

Year 2 was them playing with Michael McDonald

Year 3 was them playing with Yes

Year 4, accounting to Luke, is for them to have built up enough demand to go out on their own in the USA.

I don't doubt that promoters were reluctant to book Toto in the 90s. But we're in a totally different era now -- 80s acts have been in vogue and have been some of the higher grossing concerts for the last decade or so if not longer. That would be awesome if year 4 is really what Luke has in mind.

[WalrusOct9]

I really hope this is the case. There's enough musicians in this town where I think they could easily fill up the Ryman, which would be a fucking brilliant place to see them.

[Ehwmatt]

I really hope this is the case. There's enough musicians in this town where I think they could easily fill up the Ryman, which would be a fucking brilliant place to see them.

Only been to Nashville once and didn't get to see a show at the Ryman. It's definitely on my short bucket list of places I want to see shows. What an awesome place.

[WalrusOct9]

I really hope this is the case. There's enough musicians in this town where I think they could easily fill up the Ryman, which would be a fucking brilliant place to see them.

Only been to Nashville once and didn't get to see a show at the Ryman. It's definitely on my short bucket list of places I want to see shows. What an awesome place.

Do it. Although contrary to conventional wisdom, most of the best seats are in the balcony. Only thing with a band like Toto playing there is that, because there's seats, most of the crowd will probably sit down for most of the show until "Africa" happens. But sound-wise it's a fantastic room, and people tend to shut the fuck up and actually listen, which is a nice change of pace from a lot of venues.