President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:42 pm

steveo777 wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:It's hilarious to read you claiming such moral high ground for Republicans and yet support Trump, who is the most immoral of any of the candidates running.

Morality, eh? Hmm. Last time I checked, Trump did not vote for the Iraq war. That was Hillary. Like Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan or Nader, Trump knew enough to speak out against NAFTA whereas Hillary supported it. Trump also did not overrule Secretary Gates and create further havoc in the Middle East or go on to crack jokes about Gaddafi's brutal sodomy death. Again, that was your upstanding girl. While I'm on the subject, can you please tell me where is the morality in taking millions of dollars in speaking fees from Goldman Sachs? Also, when will she release the transcripts of her speeches? Y'know, that would be the moral righteous thing to do...


Exactly, TNC. Notice you don't see me bashing on Sanders? While I might not agree with some of his positions, I don't find him morally decrepit, like I do Hillary.


And, neither of you understand that none of this matters. If "morality", however you define it, mattered as much as you seem to believe Ben Carson would be winning in a landslide, and Huckabee would still be in, and where is Alan Keys nowadays? "Morality" means nothing in this election. Even evangelical groups justify endorsing Trump by saying we are not voting for who is the best Christian, but for who would be the best President. Funny how morality doesn't matter to Republican Christians.

And, the Republicans go and nominate the worst candidate available...Clinton may have her issues, but she does not equal the negatives of Trump...and most Republican leaders don't even like Ted Cruz. Republicans are committing suicide and the party will be in the toilet after this election. They are practically giving it to the Democrats at their own peril. I'll even predict that in the next few years the division in the party will cause more and more moderates to leave the party to become Democrats - because what the Republican voter wants has become so extreme that the party can no longer function at a national level.``

The worst thing that can happen is a brokered election and Trump getting screwed out of the election in favor of somebody like Rubio. I doubt it will happen, but it is not impossible. At that point, Trump will probably go independent and guarantee a Democrat wins...and the Republican party will implode under the weight of their own stupidity.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby steveo777 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:35 pm

Monker, how can you even see to type, when there is so much distortion going on in your skull? :mrgreen:
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:03 am

Dozens of times the media and political talking heads laid claims that Trump "is done" after he says something that makes some feel uncomfortable or isn't PC and yet he defies their logic. The have under estimated both him and the Republican voting base. That voting base is tired of the same old same old. The politicians that are backed by the special interest groups and Super PACs. That voting base is tried of politicians that talk a good game on the campaign trail and once elected only to do little to nothing they said they would. Trump is a wild card that the media and GOP couldn't see coming. He can speak his mind because he is not beholden to donors from special interest groups and Super PACs. He has been successful at using the media to his benefit. He's not playing the game as people would expect a candidate to do. These are the things that are resonating with the voters. No one would have ever expected a first time politician running for the top political position in the world to do so well. Yet he deifies the odds. People can try and white wash or down play the situation but the outcomes are proving people dead wrong. Whether Trump is the right person for the job that remains to be seen. Say what you will but he is running a campaign that is obviously working and it simply is driving the career politicians, liberals and media insane.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby steveo777 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:26 am

He's still being called unelectable because, supposedly, too many people hate him. I'm looking at size of his rallies and the votes, trying to figure out where all the hate is that would keep him from becoming president. People have been saying he's gonna fall for a long time, but yet, here he is. I think he's gonna continue doing the impossible. I think there is good reason that Ben Carson is staying in the race; to keep the votes spread enough to work against Cruz and Rubio. Carson may very well end up being the VP pick. I don't see any vitriol being thrown at him, by Donald, like I do towards Cruz and Rubio.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:47 am

steveo777 wrote:He's still being called unelectable because, supposedly, too many people hate him. I'm looking at size of his rallies and the votes, trying to figure out where all the hate is that would keep him from becoming president. People have been saying he's gonna fall for a long time, but yet, here he is. I think he's gonna continue doing the impossible. I think there is good reason that Ben Carson is staying in the race; to keep the votes spread enough to work against Cruz and Rubio. Carson may very well end up being the VP pick. I don't see any vitriol being thrown at him, by Donald, like I do towards Cruz and Rubio.


The people that "hate Trump" are people that would never vote for a non tow the party line candidate. Also liberals who wouldn't vote for any Republican. Then you have the special interest groups and those entrenched in the Super Pacs. The GOP is so out of touch with the voting base which is why they can not see where the support is coming from. They have been listening to advisers that are simply out of touch. Personally, I think that Ben Carson is out of his league. He seems to have this "deer in the headlights" persona. I think a VP nomination for him is a stretch. The reason the vitriol is not being launched at him is none of the other candidates consider him a threat.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:39 pm

Boomchild wrote:Dozens of times the media and political talking heads laid claims that Trump "is done" after he says something that makes some feel uncomfortable or isn't PC and yet he defies their logic.


I have not said "Trump is done". I say Republicans are done. It is THEIR voting that is dooming their own party. It the Republican demographic that is no longer electable in a national election. Trump appeals to the lowest common denominator in the party. But, that appeal will not translate outside the party. At least, I don't believe it does.

It reminds of when McCain was running and had some lady (I think) go about insulting Obama and he had to tell her that was disrespectful. That attitude and hatred is such a huge portion of the Republican party that a person like Trump can now make use of those voters and win a nomination.

But, that alone is not enough. Like McCain, and Romney, the Republicans can NOT win without appealing to minorities. I refuse to believe that minorities will go for Trump when the election happens.

That voting base is tired of the same old same old. The politicians that are backed by the special interest groups and Super PACs.


That's only a part of it. Read this forum and you'll see hints of it expressed by FF and KC. Many Republicans are tired of nominating people who do not represent "true conservatism" and "values". That is why Ted Cruz is also getting votes...but Trump gets those votes too...from those who do not like Cruz. In short, they don't compromise for an "establishment" candidate (like Bush) who they are told has a better chance of winning. They in fact believe they lose because they are not conservative enough. They are moving the entire Republican party far, far, to the right...

That voting base is tried of politicians that talk a good game on the campaign trail and once elected only to do little to nothing they said they would.


That is true. At the same time the things the Republican voting base wants are impossible. None of the things Trump says he wants to do are possible. Building a wall and making Mexico pay for it - impossible. Kicking out all illegal Mexicans - impossible. I even doubt that getting rid of Obama Care and replacing it is possible. If something weird happens and Trump is elected, he will be Obamanized by the radical Republicans within a year.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:47 pm

steveo777 wrote:He's still being called unelectable because, supposedly, too many people hate him.


Gee, that's exactly what TNC says about Clinton.

Trump is unelectable because he will lose the vote of every minority group out there. THAT is why he will lose.

I'm looking at size of his rallies and the votes, trying to figure out where all the hate is that would keep him from becoming president.


Where was the "hate" for Romney during his nomination rallies when helost the election because he could not get the minority vote?

People have been saying he's gonna fall for a long time, but yet, here he is. I think he's gonna continue doing the impossible. I think there is good reason that Ben Carson is staying in the race; to keep the votes spread enough to work against Cruz and Rubio. Carson may very well end up being the VP pick. I don't see any vitriol being thrown at him, by Donald, like I do towards Cruz and Rubio.


Carson has already said he does not want the VP job, or even Surgeon General.

I think he is in the race because the RNC is encouraging him to stay in so Rubio and Trump have a better chance at beating down Cruz during Super Tuesday. He takes the evangelical vote from Cruz. Even though his percentage is small it may be enough to tilt the lead from Cruz toward Trump or Rubio - both are more party friendly than Cruz. Look for Carson to exit after Super Tuesday.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:13 pm

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:
steveo777 wrote:
K.C.Journey Fan wrote:Jebs out. Now we wait for the hammer to drop on Hillary.


You might be waiting a long time. Obama's DOJ isn't going to do anything to that nasty bitch and she's most likely to be the Democratic nominee, which makes me ill. I can't believe there are so many mindless, immoral idiots out there who think she deserves to be president. Considering that Hillary is the epitome of big money in politics, what the Democrats claim to hate, it just goes to show the hypocrisy of the Democrats. This election needs to become a war on Hillary. If she's not defeated we're in a lot of trouble. I hope Trump gets the opportunity to keep hammering on all her issues, as well as gets a face to face debate, where he can annihilate her.

Stevo, remember, The FBI said if the DOJ does not go after the hag by June, they will dump everything they have on her to the Media. The FBI is also after the hags husband, and horse faced daughter, as well as their "Foundation".


That is not what the DOJ said. That is what a biased reporter said an anonymous source within the FBI told him in an article written just prior to the Iowa caucus.

In other words, you have no clue what is going to happen but it is probably not this because it was a politically motivated and biased article.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:49 am

Monker wrote:
steveo777 wrote:He's still being called unelectable because, supposedly, too many people hate him.


Gee, that's exactly what TNC says about Clinton.

Trump is unelectable because he will lose the vote of every minority group out there. THAT is why he will lose.


Self-identified Democratic voters account for maybe 30% of the US population. That is not enough to elect Hillary. Hillary can't get ANY independents. Trump, however, can create a broad coalition of Reagan dems, independents, and Repubs.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:46 am

Monker wrote:I have not said "Trump is done". I say Republicans are done. It is THEIR voting that is dooming their own party. It the Republican demographic that is no longer electable in a national election. Trump appeals to the lowest common denominator in the party. But, that appeal will not translate outside the party. At least, I don't believe it does.


Who said you said anything?
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:13 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:
steveo777 wrote:He's still being called unelectable because, supposedly, too many people hate him.


Gee, that's exactly what TNC says about Clinton.

Trump is unelectable because he will lose the vote of every minority group out there. THAT is why he will lose.


Self-identified Democratic voters account for maybe 30% of the US population. That is not enough to elect Hillary. Hillary can't get ANY independents. Trump, however, can create a broad coalition of Reagan dems, independents, and Repubs.


National polling from the very start of this election cycle proves you are wrong.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:17 am

You're a plagiarist. You did not write this.

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:Throughout the Bush years, liberals repeated “Bush lied, people died” like a mantra. That slander wasn’t true then and it’s not anymore true now that it has resurfaced. There are many legitimate criticisms of the way the Bush Administration conducted the war in Iraq and even more of the way Obama threw away all the blood and treasure we spent there for the sake of politics, but you have to be malicious or just an imbecile at this point to accuse Bush of lying about WMDs.

To begin with, numerous foreign intelligence agencies also believed that Saddam Hussein had an active WMD program. The "intelligence agencies of Germany, Israel, Russia, Britain, China and France" all believed Saddam had WMDs. CIA Director George Tenet also rather famously said that it was a “slam dunk” that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Incidentally, it’s hard to fault the CIA for their conclusions when even, “In private conversations that were intercepted by U.S. intelligence, Iraqi officials spoke as if Saddam continued to possess WMD. Even Iraqi generals believed he did. In the fall of 2002, the Iraqi military conducted exercises in chemical protective gear – but not because they thought the U.S.-led coalition was going to use chemical weapons.”

Additionally, many prominent Democrats who had access to the same intelligence that George Bush did came to the same conclusion and said so publicly. If George W. Bush lied, then by default you have to also believe that Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, John Edwards, Robert Byrd, Tom Daschle, Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders also lied. Some of them, like Hillary Clinton, even alleged that Saddam was working on nuclear weapons.

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.” — Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

Even Bernie Sanders, who opposed the war from the beginning, publicly said he believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.



Mr. Speaker, the front page of The Washington Post today reported that all relevant U.S. intelligence agencies now say, despite what we have heard from the White House, that "Saddam Hussein is unlikely to initiate a chemical or biological attack against the United States." Even more importantly, our intelligence agencies say that should Saddam conclude that a U.S.-led attack could no longer be deterred, he might at that point launch a chemical or biological counterattack. In other words, there is more danger of an attack on the United States if we launch a precipitous invasion.

You can’t blame Bernie and Hillary too much for thinking Iraq had WMDs because privately, even former weapons UN inspectors were saying the same thing.

Additional confirmation of this latter point comes from Kenneth Pollack, who served in the National Security Council under Clinton. “In the late spring of 2002,” Pollack has written,

I participated in a Washington meeting about Iraqi WMD. Those present included nearly twenty former inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), the force established in 1991 to oversee the elimination of WMD in Iraq. One of the senior people put a question to the group: did anyone in the room doubt that Iraq was currently operating a secret centrifuge plant? No one did.

Furthermore, as even the New York Times has been forced to admit, large numbers of pre-Gulf War WMDs have actually been found in Iraq.

From 2004 to 2011, American and American-trained Iraqi troops repeatedly encountered, and on at least six occasions were wounded by, chemical weapons remaining from years earlier in Saddam Hussein’s rule.

In all, American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

One of the reasons Saddam Hussein went to such great lengths to hide what he was doing was because he did have thousands of old WMDS stockpiled. However, that wasn’t all there was to it. Even though the ultimate conclusion of the Iraqi Survey Group was that Saddam didn’t have an active WMD program, his hands were far from clean on the WMD front.

As David Kay noted in his report back in 2003,

...When Saddam had asked a senior military official in either 2001 or 2002 how long it would take to produce new chemical agent and weapons, he told ISG that after he consulted with CW experts in OMI he responded it would take six months for mustard.

Another senior Iraqi chemical weapons expert in responding to a request in mid-2002 from Uday Husayn for CW for the Fedayeen Saddam estimated that it would take two months to produce mustard and two years for Sarin.”

— “…(O)ne scientist confirmed that the production line…..could be switched to produce anthrax in one week if the seed stock were available.”

...With regard to Iraq’s nuclear program, the testimony we have obtained from Iraqi scientists and senior government officials should clear up any doubts about whether Saddam still wanted to obtain nuclear weapons.

They have told ISG that Saddam… remained firmly committed to acquiring nuclear weapons. These officials assert that Saddam would have resumed nuclear weapons development at some future point. Some indicated a resumption after Iraq was free of sanctions.”

“1. Saddam, at least as judged by those scientists and other insiders who worked in his military-industrial programs, had not given up his aspirations and intentions to continue to acquire weapons of mass destruction. Even those senior officials we have interviewed who claim no direct knowledge of any on-going prohibited activities readily acknowledge that Saddam intended to resume these programs whenever the external restrictions were removed. Several of these officials acknowledge receiving inquiries since 2000 from Saddam or his sons about how long it would take to either restart CW production or make available chemical weapons.”

The Duelfer report also noted that Saddam had every intention of making more WMDs.

“(S)ources indicate that M16 was planning to produce several CW agents including sulfur mustard, nitrogen mustard, and Sarin.”

In other words, it is true that no stockpiles of new WMDS were found and the people in the best position to know didn’t conclude the weapons were moved to Syria. However, had Saddam Hussein not been taken out, he would have still had stockpiles of old WMDs available and he had every intention of making more.

Given all of that, it’s no surprise that everyone from the head of the CIA to Bernie Sanders to the British thought that Saddam had WMDs; yet George W. Bush is the one who is accused of deliberately sending American soldiers to their deaths over a lie.

No honest person can read all of this and STILL repeat the disgusting smear that George W. Bush lied about WMDs to get us into war in Iraq.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:21 am

Boomchild wrote:
Monker wrote:I have not said "Trump is done". I say Republicans are done. It is THEIR voting that is dooming their own party. It the Republican demographic that is no longer electable in a national election. Trump appeals to the lowest common denominator in the party. But, that appeal will not translate outside the party. At least, I don't believe it does.


Who said you said anything?


I didn't say anybody said I said anything. I only said what I have not said. I said that because what I say in critique of Trump is not what was said other people say.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:39 am

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:So your saying it's bullshit like "Bush went to war for WMD's".


Bush went to war in Iraq because he's an idiot. Then his administration, not him personally, used every excuse imaginable to justify what they did. Yes, Colin Powel justified the war to the UN by claiming WMD. Then Cheney implied links to terrorism and Saddam - which was bullshit and he knew it. And, they ALLOWED the public to believe the war was somehow connected to 9/11 - which it never was. I will not say "W lied about Iraq"....but his administration misinformed, twisted the facts, and allowed the people to believe things they knew were not true - in order to continue having the support of the people. Then, if you expressed opposition to the war, you were a traitor, you were benefiting and encouraging the enemy, you were acting in an unpatriotic and treasonous way and should leave the country. The unpatriotic and dangerous assholes were Dick Chenney and Donald Rumsfeld for continuing this charade....and they are the ones who should leave the country for acting in such a treasonous way...and W should put his leash back on the two of them can drag him along as they did while they were running this country.

What Trump said in the Town Hall "debate" was absolutely right...and I said those exact same things leading up to the war. I remember saying very specifically in Journey's "Water cooler" forum that invading Iraq would be the greatest foreign policy mistake in this nations history. In fact, I remember making the argument that he wouldn't do it...that he would drop some bombs and blow up things that they thought held WMD, and that would be it. I could not believe that a President would be so stupid to believe that invading another country, removing its government and trying to replace it with what WE wanted, would actually somehow turn out to be a good idea. I was wrong....W was/is that stupid.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:02 am

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:"To begin with, numerous foreign intelligence agencies also believed that Saddam Hussein had an active WMD program. The "intelligence agencies of Germany, Israel, Russia, Britain, China and France" all believed Saddam had WMDs. CIA Director George Tenet also rather famously said that it was a “slam dunk” that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq."


For arguments sake lets say that Saddam did have chemical WMDs. Was there evidence to show that a threat of use was imminent? Did this mean that the solution should have been for the U.S. to invade Iraq? If the agencies of other countries were so sure as well, why didn't they step up an lead? Was invasion the only solution? I guess it seems that the U.N. isn't worth jack shit and should be dismantled.

Looking at the results, it seems to me and a lot of others that invasion was the wrong solution. All it has done is further destabilized the Middle East. Created a totally unstable Iraqi government, military and produced a haven for terrorists. It's created the possibility for Iran to take over Iraq. Which I think most would consider an even bigger problem then Saddam. Iran supports terrorism where as Saddam killed terrorists. If your going to use the position that if they have WMDS then we have to invade, then we should have already invaded Syria.

What people can't seem to get through their thick skulls is that we nor ANY nation or country outside the Middle East can stabilize the region. For God's sake, they have been at each others throats since the 7th century. Your dealing with a culture that does not separate it's religion form it's government(s). Which is a recipe for disaster. To be successful, any outside country or nation trying to do so would have to permanently occupy the whole region. As far as the U.S. is concerned, I doubt you could find one citizen that would support that.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:05 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Hillary Clinton email controversy 

1h

US judge rules State Department officials, top Hillary Clinton aides should be questioned over private email system - Washington Post

Read more on washingtonpost.com


Gee I wonder how this will pan out? Maybe a little something like this:

"Sir\Madam, I have been advised by my counsel to plead the fifth and will not answer the question(s) on the grounds that I may incriminate myself."
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:36 pm

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:Throughout the Bush years, liberals repeated “Bush lied, people died” like a mantra. That slander wasn’t true then and it’s not anymore true now that it has resurfaced. There are many legitimate criticisms of the way the Bush Administration conducted the war in Iraq and even more of the way Obama threw away all the blood and treasure we spent there for the sake of politics, but you have to be malicious or just an imbecile at this point to accuse Bush of lying about WMDs.

To begin with, numerous foreign intelligence agencies also believed that Saddam Hussein had an active WMD program. The "intelligence agencies of Germany, Israel, Russia, Britain, China and France" all believed Saddam had WMDs. CIA Director George Tenet also rather famously said that it was a “slam dunk” that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Incidentally, it’s hard to fault the CIA for their conclusions when even, “In private conversations that were intercepted by U.S. intelligence, Iraqi officials spoke as if Saddam continued to possess WMD. Even Iraqi generals believed he did. In the fall of 2002, the Iraqi military conducted exercises in chemical protective gear – but not because they thought the U.S.-led coalition was going to use chemical weapons.”

Additionally, many prominent Democrats who had access to the same intelligence that George Bush did came to the same conclusion and said so publicly. If George W. Bush lied, then by default you have to also believe that Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, John Edwards, Robert Byrd, Tom Daschle, Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders also lied. Some of them, like Hillary Clinton, even alleged that Saddam was working on nuclear weapons.

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.” — Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

Even Bernie Sanders, who opposed the war from the beginning, publicly said he believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.



Mr. Speaker, the front page of The Washington Post today reported that all relevant U.S. intelligence agencies now say, despite what we have heard from the White House, that "Saddam Hussein is unlikely to initiate a chemical or biological attack against the United States." Even more importantly, our intelligence agencies say that should Saddam conclude that a U.S.-led attack could no longer be deterred, he might at that point launch a chemical or biological counterattack. In other words, there is more danger of an attack on the United States if we launch a precipitous invasion.

You can’t blame Bernie and Hillary too much for thinking Iraq had WMDs because privately, even former weapons UN inspectors were saying the same thing.

Additional confirmation of this latter point comes from Kenneth Pollack, who served in the National Security Council under Clinton. “In the late spring of 2002,” Pollack has written,

I participated in a Washington meeting about Iraqi WMD. Those present included nearly twenty former inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), the force established in 1991 to oversee the elimination of WMD in Iraq. One of the senior people put a question to the group: did anyone in the room doubt that Iraq was currently operating a secret centrifuge plant? No one did.

Furthermore, as even the New York Times has been forced to admit, large numbers of pre-Gulf War WMDs have actually been found in Iraq.

From 2004 to 2011, American and American-trained Iraqi troops repeatedly encountered, and on at least six occasions were wounded by, chemical weapons remaining from years earlier in Saddam Hussein’s rule.

In all, American troops secretly reported finding roughly 5,000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs, according to interviews with dozens of participants, Iraqi and American officials, and heavily redacted intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

One of the reasons Saddam Hussein went to such great lengths to hide what he was doing was because he did have thousands of old WMDS stockpiled. However, that wasn’t all there was to it. Even though the ultimate conclusion of the Iraqi Survey Group was that Saddam didn’t have an active WMD program, his hands were far from clean on the WMD front.

As David Kay noted in his report back in 2003,

...When Saddam had asked a senior military official in either 2001 or 2002 how long it would take to produce new chemical agent and weapons, he told ISG that after he consulted with CW experts in OMI he responded it would take six months for mustard.

Another senior Iraqi chemical weapons expert in responding to a request in mid-2002 from Uday Husayn for CW for the Fedayeen Saddam estimated that it would take two months to produce mustard and two years for Sarin.”

— “…(O)ne scientist confirmed that the production line…..could be switched to produce anthrax in one week if the seed stock were available.”

...With regard to Iraq’s nuclear program, the testimony we have obtained from Iraqi scientists and senior government officials should clear up any doubts about whether Saddam still wanted to obtain nuclear weapons.

They have told ISG that Saddam… remained firmly committed to acquiring nuclear weapons. These officials assert that Saddam would have resumed nuclear weapons development at some future point. Some indicated a resumption after Iraq was free of sanctions.”

“1. Saddam, at least as judged by those scientists and other insiders who worked in his military-industrial programs, had not given up his aspirations and intentions to continue to acquire weapons of mass destruction. Even those senior officials we have interviewed who claim no direct knowledge of any on-going prohibited activities readily acknowledge that Saddam intended to resume these programs whenever the external restrictions were removed. Several of these officials acknowledge receiving inquiries since 2000 from Saddam or his sons about how long it would take to either restart CW production or make available chemical weapons.”

The Duelfer report also noted that Saddam had every intention of making more WMDs.

“(S)ources indicate that M16 was planning to produce several CW agents including sulfur mustard, nitrogen mustard, and Sarin.”

In other words, it is true that no stockpiles of new WMDS were found and the people in the best position to know didn’t conclude the weapons were moved to Syria. However, had Saddam Hussein not been taken out, he would have still had stockpiles of old WMDs available and he had every intention of making more.

Given all of that, it’s no surprise that everyone from the head of the CIA to Bernie Sanders to the British thought that Saddam had WMDs; yet George W. Bush is the one who is accused of deliberately sending American soldiers to their deaths over a lie.

No honest person can read all of this and STILL repeat the disgusting smear that George W. Bush lied about WMDs to get us into war in Iraq.


Oh please. Just a few weeks ago it was revealed that there was ANOTHER Joint Chiefs of Staff report in 2002 questioning the evidence. If it was "such a slam dunk", why were the UN inspectors told to leave early? Why did Bush's Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neil, say the administration was discussing an Iraq invasion from day one? And that's not even half of it. Trump is right. Bush lied. Does anybody hear Democrats defending LBJ and the Gulf of Tonkin lie? Of course not. Grow up.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/rumsfe ... id/710628/
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby steveo777 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:22 pm

Looks like that ceiling that people were talking about, saying Trump would never get more than 30-35%, has been broken. Looks like he's got 43% in the Nevada caucus. This is yuuuuugggggeee!
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:18 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Oh please. Just a few weeks ago it was revealed that there was ANOTHER Joint Chiefs of Staff report in 2002 questioning the evidence. If it was "such a slam dunk", why were the UN inspectors told to leave early? Why did Bush's Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neil, say the administration was discussing an Iraq invasion from day one? And that's not even half of it. Trump is right. Bush lied. Does anybody hear Democrats defending LBJ and the Gulf of Tonkin lie? Of course not. Grow up.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/rumsfe ... id/710628/


Not only that but much of what this article is based on is the ISG report...with bits taken out of context. This was argued in this forum over a year a go. Taken as a whole that report said NO WMD was found in Iraq. There was NO evidence that there were plans to restart WMD production. The weapons that were found were left over from the Iran/Iraq war and were old and useless....Sarin degrades VERY QUICKLY from a gas into a useless goop.

Much of the rest of it was based on "intelligence" from Aḥmad Alwān who LIED to the US and other countries about the extent of Iraq's WMD's....and the very ISG report the rest of this article is based on proved that in 2004.

Taken as a whole, all this proves is some people are very naïve when they get spam written five years ago in their Email box that happens to agree with their opinion. They would rather live in ignorance and believe misinformation and propaganda than accept that their opinion was simply wrong.

And, use common sense, if Iraq had WMD available, they would have used it during the first Gulf War...Saddam used WMD against both his own people, and Iran. There is no reason to believe he would not use it against the coalition.

Iraq was NEVER A THREAT to the US. There was no "real" reason to invade and take over the government. I said that before even Trump said it. Saddam was a brutal dictator....no question. But, there are a lot of brutal dictators in the world and we can't invade and take over all of those countries...even one was too many.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:20 pm

steveo777 wrote:Looks like that ceiling that people were talking about, saying Trump would never get more than 30-35%, has been broken. Looks like he's got 43% in the Nevada caucus. This is yuuuuugggggeee!


Who's Yuggee? Yogi's Bear's sister?
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:41 pm

As for the debate, Ben Carson had the best line, "Can somebody attack me please so I can have some time to speak?"

That about sums it up the circus.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:30 pm

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:So they aren't scripted like the Democratic love fest.


Not scripted? That's what you think? The Republicans are a party which doesn't know how to win a national election. That is what is really going on. If Rubio and Cruz had acted this way back when Iowa and NH were up for grabs, Trump would have dropped out by now. But, they waited too long and now the only way to avoid Trump is for a brokered election...and even then if they don't nominate him, it will split the party due to internal rebellion. Republicans are so screwed...and have been from the start.

Sanders has been so screwed over. Clinton with over 500 Delegates to Sanders 70? What a joke.


LOL...I said from the start, maybe even before the start, that she was going to win the nomination and election. You may as well get used to saying "President Clinton" again. After Tuesday, Clinton will have it a done deal...and so will Trump...the worst candidate on the Republican side.

One would think Sanders would be screaming foul if he really wanted to win.


If he screams too loud, it damages the party itself. He knows this...Republicans need to learn it. Maybe they'll learn it after Clinton schlongs Trump.

Bernie is smart...he will stay in it until the end, having a lot of delegates and power. He may not win the nomination but he will have influence. So, there is no sense in "screaming" and burning bridges when he may want o make use of those connections in the future.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:21 pm

Monker wrote:Maybe they'll learn it after Clinton schlongs Trump.


Trump has already demolished one "invincible" candidate of the establishment (El Jeb!). Next up - the Clinton dynasty. After he brings up Monica in a debate, Hillary will probably have a breakdown. Trump keeps toppling these sacred cows (McCain's service, Iraq War etc) and he only gets stronger. You ain't seen nothing yet!
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:34 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:Maybe they'll learn it after Clinton schlongs Trump.


Trump has already demolished one "invincible" candidate of the establishment (El Jeb!). Next up - the Clinton dynasty. After he brings up Monica in a debate, Hillary will probably have a breakdown. Trump keeps toppling these sacred cows (McCain's service, Iraq War etc) and he only gets stronger. You ain't seen nothing yet!


I never felt Jeb! was "invincible".

He gets stronger with those voting in the Republican primaries and caucuses....but not against the Democrats. You should know that, Bernie beats him worse than Hillary does. In fact, IMO, nominating Trump will probably invigorate Democrats to vote more than anything else....and it will keep "establishment" Republican voters home in protest/disgust. I doubt he, or Ted Cruz, will have any chance to win. The only way the Republicans have a chance to win is to nominate Rubio - but that isn't going to happen.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:15 pm

Monker wrote:I never felt Jeb! was "invincible".

Both Jeb and Hillary's represent dynastic oligarchy and not democracy. With a few words "low energy" Trump managed to completely define Jeb. You just wait until he starts on Hillary. Bernie, for the most part, has refused to get involved with Benghazi and the emails. Trump has no such scruples

Monker wrote:In fact, IMO, nominating Trump will probably invigorate Democrats to vote more than anything else....and it will keep "establishment" Republican voters home in protest/disgust.


Trump at least can attract independents and some Dems. Hillary has no such cross-over appeal AT ALL. Maybe she will go on Ellen again and dance the "nae nae" to appeal to minorities. What a pandering fat old hag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppgk9Mj1n88
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:08 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:I never felt Jeb! was "invincible".

Both Jeb and Hillary's represent dynastic oligarchy and not democracy. With a few words "low energy" Trump managed to completely define Jeb. You just wait until he starts on Hillary. Bernie, for the most part, has refused to get involved with Benghazi and the emails. Trump has no such scruples

Monker wrote:In fact, IMO, nominating Trump will probably invigorate Democrats to vote more than anything else....and it will keep "establishment" Republican voters home in protest/disgust.


Trump at least can attract independents and some Dems. Hillary has no such cross-over appeal AT ALL. Maybe she will go on Ellen again and dance the "nae nae" to appeal to minorities. What a pandering fat old hag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppgk9Mj1n88


I'm not worried about any of this at all, honestly. Trump doesn't even have a small chance at winning the Presidency.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:19 am

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:TNC, up through Nevada, comparing to 2012 elections, the Democraric turn out has been down 22%, with Republican turn out being up 22%. If Trump wins, it's a good bet Hillary's e mail is going to go front pages no matter how much the "Justice Department" tries to stop it. Trump has that kind of gift. The Russian reset, Benghazi, Yeman, Libya, The Clintons taxes, all going to be open warfare.


Nominating an ass like Trump will do nothing but help Democratic turnout. He is going to lose by at least 10% of the total vote.

After the crappy few days Trump has had with his own question of taxes, him denouncing David Duke and then claiming to not know who he is, and mystery interview where he says all of his talk on immigration is lies and he has no plans of doing any of it...after all of that, you would still want to talk about issues that nobody really cares about with Clinton.

People claimed Obama was not "vetted" when he won...The truth is Trump was not 'vetted' during the nomination process...but he will be during the election. Trump university, hiring foreign workers to build his buildings, his own past marriage issues, bankruptcies, lawsuits, and all the things he has said about women, Mexicans, Muslims, and now refusing to denounce a former grandmaster of the KKK. Oh, and another "white advocacy" group also endorsed him. Trump has a LOT of issues that have hardly been touched on by anybody. The stuff you mention about Clinton has been recycled for years, some of it for decades.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:18 am

Monker wrote:I'm not worried about any of this at all, honestly.


Of course you don't. Like all Hillary sycophants, all you care about is winning. You remind me of the idiots that re-elected Bush in 2004. When Trump said he could "shoot somebody and not lose voters" he may as well have been discussing the brainless behavior of the Hillarybots. And, unlike Trump, Hillary's record of public service/private enrichment has ACTUALLY resulted in the deaths of people. Here she is laughing about destabilizing Libya and Ghaddafi getting lynched. Ho ho. What a knee slapper! :roll: With Democrats likes these, who needs Neocons?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:25 am

Trump got one democrat to cross over so far. I want to see him shake up Ryan, McConnell, Graham, McCain and so forth.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:13 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:I'm not worried about any of this at all, honestly.


Of course you don't. Like all Hillary sycophants, all you care about is winning.


Not true at all. All I am saying is she would win. I have never said who I would vote for.

You remind me of the idiots that re-elected Bush in 2004.


And, if Kerry had something more to say than, "Doesn't Bush suck?", maybe he would have won by giving people a reason to vote FOR HIM rather than voting against Bush. Even Kerry's attacks were mostly ineffective, compared to the Swift Boat attacks. It was as if he ran a campaign where he felt he was going to be handed the election and did not have to try to either win it, or defend himself when attacked.

You are right that he should have won...but he didn't run a campaign that deserved to win either.

When Trump said he could "shoot somebody and not lose voters" he may as well have been discussing the brainless behavior of the Hillarybots.


LOL, that's a change from your earlier posts where you said Clinton was losing ground to Sanders and on and on and on. You are implying that you now know that you were wrong.

And, unlike Trump, Hillary's record of public service/private enrichment has ACTUALLY resulted in the deaths of people. Here she is laughing about destabilizing Libya and Ghaddafi getting lynched. Ho ho. What a knee slapper! :roll: With Democrats likes these, who needs Neocons?


I bet the RNC wished there was a true neocon running this year. But, if Cruz and Rubio hold enough delegates, maybe the RNC will nominate one anyway....but it will probably just be Romney again.

After the Democrats win this election in a landslide, I have to wonder if a true third party will be started by defectors of the Republican "establishment" who give the party over to the losing group of Trump, his supporters, and the "Freedom caucus"/Tea Party...and maybe even pull in a few Democrats as well. I will not be surprised at all if that happens.
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