Concertgoers, beware: Classic rock bands play 'musical chair

[tater1977]

Concertgoers, beware: Classic rock bands play 'musical chairs' with heyday lineups

http://m.startribune.com/concertgoers-b ... 442406633/

By Sheila Branscome Sunderland , Special to the Star Tribune
September 01, 2017 - 3:07 PM

Going to see a classic-rock band in concert can be like getting the mystery meat at the cafeteria — you never know what’s on your plate.

You might recognize the name of the band, but not its current members. In fact, a group that boasted five devoted musicians during its heyday may have trickled down to only one. Sometimes, the freshly recruited members were still crawling when the band’s hit songs were climbing the charts. Yet, the group continues to perform, cashing in by using the same familiar brand name.

Take the case of Yes. There are two estranged incarnations of the veteran prog-rock band touring — both coming to Minnesota in the next week or so. Yes Featuring Jon Anderson, Trevor Rabin, Rick Wakeman — as it’s awkwardly billed — is headed to Treasure Island Casino in Red Wing on Friday. Yes, featuring Steve Howe (who apparently owns the moniker “Yes”) and Alan White plus Howe’s son on drums, performs in Moorhead on Sept. 11. Eight members of Yes were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in April but detente apparently lasted only one night.

Who's with the band?

From the Pointer Sisters to Yes, here's who's who these days.

The list of similarly evaporating famous bands is longer than a live drum solo in the ’70s. The Who are kiddingly called Who’s Left with sadly only half the band remaining. Kiss, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Journey, the Pointer Sisters, the Spinners and countless other reconstituted groups continue to tour despite the absence of key players.

Who's with the band?

Even contemporary bands face the same issue. Thirteen musicians have set sail with Awolnation while 15 have ridden with Band of Horses. Trent Reznor has been the only constant in Nine Inch Nails, and Josh Homme is the sole keeper of Queens of the Stone Age.

At what point should a dwindling band stop riding the coattails of its original name?

Truth in advertising

The Truth in Music Advertising act was first signed into law in 2005 in Pennsylvania. Thirty-four states followed suit, including Minnesota in 2008. It is unlawful to advertise or promote a live musical performance with false or misleading associations between the performing group and the established recording band. Moreover, at least one member of the original group must be involved and have a legal right to use the band’s name.

Are fans aware of this law? Do they care?

J.J. Williams, 32, of White Bear Lake, was astonished to learn that a single band member could legally hold the rights to a band’s moniker.

“If I bought a ticket to a concert and found out only one original guy was onstage, I’d be mad, getting ripped off like that,” he said. “I follow Metallica, so I know they’re not the original lineup, but I can’t keep up with every band out there who’s coming unglued.”

A band’s name is the bedrock of the brand’s fame. This is why Roger Waters sued fellow bandmates David Gilmour and Nick Mason over the use of the commercially successful name Pink Floyd. The same goes for the Beach Boys, Boston, Steppenwolf, Deep Purple, Sister Sledge and other litigated monikers.

Minneapolis attorney Michael R. Cohen is an expert in intellectual property, especially when it comes to band names.

“The point of trademark laws is to prevent confusion in the marketplace,” he said. “You have to ask yourself: Is this truth in advertising or a deceptive trade practice — saying one thing and offering something different?”

Cohen is a cousin of Lee Oskar, the original harmonica player for the band War. After prolonged litigation, Oskar and three other original members of War lost ownership of the band’s name to their manager. The four original members have since regrouped and renamed themselves the Lowrider Band, after their 1975 hit song.

Because of a 1991 court decision, Cohen explained, these original members are no longer able to use War to promote their performances. “As a result, it is virtually impossible for them to reach out to their old fan base,” he said.

Hasn’t hurt Axl, Kiss

If every member of the band bows out except the recognizable voice of the lead singer, you might say that a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet, especially if that was Axl Rose. The frontman of Guns N’ Roses legally obtained sole ownership of the band’s moniker in 1997. He can slash his musical lineup however he sees fit, and still call the final concoction Guns N’ Roses. At last count, he has welcomed 22 Gunners to the jungle, though he has reunited with heyday members Slash and Duff McKagan for a current tour.

Ultimately, though, ticket buyers will decide.

Like Krista Esterling, 28, of Minneapolis, who goes to about 20 concerts per year. She recently saw Panic! at the Disco, even though she knew the band has only one original member — Brendon Urie, the lead vocalist.

“As long as the chorus sounds the same, I’m OK with whomever else might be onstage, that is, unless I’ve been emotionally invested in a band for years, like I am with Coldplay,” she said. “If Chris Martin was still the lead singer, but drummer Will Champion was missing, I’d be upset. I like the band as a whole.”

The continuing members of Queen were sensitive to this issue and thus dubbed themselves Queen + Paul Rodgers, and more recently, Queen + Adam Lambert, who drew a capacity crowd to Xcel Energy Center in July. Those billings illustrated respect for both the late singer Freddie Mercury and Queen’s fans.

Journey and Kiss have had remarkable commercial success despite well-documented changes in their lineups. After Journey replaced lead singer Steve Perry with sound-alike Arnel Pineda in 2007, Billboard reported their following year’s concert tour earnings to be upward of $35 million. Kiss lost half its original members when guitarist Ace Frehley and drummer Peter Criss quit. Nonetheless, the group has evolved into one of rock’s most lucrative enterprises — worth $5 billion, boasts co-founder Gene Simmons.

By doing a little internet sleuthing, the discerning consumer can quickly identify the genuine article from a reasonable facsimile. Timelines are readily available online to determine if a band has more lives than a cat.

With the 2015 death of Cory Wells, Three Dog Night, which is coming to Mystic Lake Casino on Oct. 20, is down to one of its three original lead singers, Danny Hutton, though former member Chuck Negron still sings under his own name. The other night at the Minnesota State Fair there was only one of the original Pointer Sisters — Ruth, plus her daughter and granddaughter.

In the concert world, it has become buyer beware. Before you shell out your hard-earned money to buy a ticket, compare the bill in your hand to who’s actually on the playbill at hand. Remember, much like the mystery meat at the cafeteria, band members are “subject to change.”

[JourneyHard]

Maybe Steve Perry was correct when he said, "Don't fracture Journey." However, Perry went on tour for Raised on Radio without Ross Valory and Steve Smith. Perry is the one who fractured Journey.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Journey as a touring act was making money before 2007. Arnel replaced JSS not Perry. Another dipshit "journalist" whitewashing SA years out of history.

[SoonerThunder]

Which original members are people supposedly missing in Metallica? Cliff ain't comin back. Dave? Ron McGovney? That article sucked.

[JourneyHard]

This might be a ploy to make more money. If Styx tours without Dennis DeYoung, Dennis can also tour, and then both tours make money off the same songs. Perhaps Journey figured this out. Jon will tour with the current line up of Journey plus a new guitarist, and Neal will get Gregg Rolie and some other guys together for his JRNY. Thus, both tours can capitalize on the Dirty Dozen except maybe Neal's version will mix it up more and play more deep cuts.

[Greg]

I didn't understand the Metallica reference. I actually don't even understand the article. If concertgoers feel "tricked" into attending concerts and later finding out that none of the original members or 1/3 of the original members is/are in the band, then well, I don't know what to tell them. If you go to the concerts, you have a good time, the songs bring you back to the time in your life when they were new and you were young, then what does it really matter if the original members aren't there?

To me, I look at these classic bands are brands. Professional sports teams have players who retire and new players come onto the team. You still root for your favorite team even though that hall of famer is no longer playing for your team, why should it be different for music? It's one thing if the new guys are trying to dress and look like the old guys, but if they are doing their very best to stay true to the classics in concert, and they have the ability to write new music that stays true to the signature sound but is worth buying, then what does it really matter? Chicago has no original guys from what I understand, yet I've listened to some live clips on YouTube, and they still sound great. I miss the original voices, but I also realize that times change and bands evolve.

Sure, I'd love for Steve Perry to come back to Journey, but I also like the idea of the band moving on with new guys and recreating new, timeless music if it's possible. Just like KISS at one time were supposedly picking their replacements. I'd love the idea of having KISS, Journey, Chicago, Foreigner, or Kansas putting out new music 30 years from now. Maybe it's new players all around, but it's a brand that was started 40+ years ago and has stood the test of time.

[tj]

I didn't understand the Metallica reference. I actually don't even understand the article. If concertgoers feel "tricked" into attending concerts and later finding out that none of the original members or 1/3 of the original members is/are in the band, then well, I don't know what to tell them. If you go to the concerts, you have a good time, the songs bring you back to the time in your life when they were new and you were young, then what does it really matter if the original members aren't there?

To me, I look at these classic bands are brands. Professional sports teams have players who retire and new players come onto the team. You still root for your favorite team even though that hall of famer is no longer playing for your team, why should it be different for music? It's one thing if the new guys are trying to dress and look like the old guys, but if they are doing their very best to stay true to the classics in concert, and they have the ability to write new music that stays true to the signature sound but is worth buying, then what does it really matter? Chicago has no original guys from what I understand, yet I've listened to some live clips on YouTube, and they still sound great. I miss the original voices, but I also realize that times change and bands evolve.

Sure, I'd love for Steve Perry to come back to Journey, but I also like the idea of the band moving on with new guys and recreating new, timeless music if it's possible. Just like KISS at one time were supposedly picking their replacements. I'd love the idea of having KISS, Journey, Chicago, Foreigner, or Kansas putting out new music 30 years from now. Maybe it's new players all around, but it's a brand that was started 40+ years ago and has stood the test of time.

In some of these bands making new music, it's like a TV show remake/spinoff. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. MASH was huge success, AfterMASH was horrible with many of the same actors. Hawaii Five 0 seems to have done OK as a remake, but isn't the original.

Chicago lists 4 of the original members as still with the band, but only 3 are playing on tour anymore. Robert Lamm, Lee Loughnane and Jimmy Panknow are the only 3 still on the road. Walt Parazaider is still listed as a member bur from doesn't tour due to health reasons. He has been replaced by Ray Hermann. Loughnane and Pankow sometimes have other guys fill in for them as well. The music doesn't suffer a bit because of it.

[tj]

I didn't understand the Metallica reference. I actually don't even understand the article. If concertgoers feel "tricked" into attending concerts and later finding out that none of the original members or 1/3 of the original members is/are in the band, then well, I don't know what to tell them. If you go to the concerts, you have a good time, the songs bring you back to the time in your life when they were new and you were young, then what does it really matter if the original members aren't there?

To me, I look at these classic bands are brands. Professional sports teams have players who retire and new players come onto the team. You still root for your favorite team even though that hall of famer is no longer playing for your team, why should it be different for music? It's one thing if the new guys are trying to dress and look like the old guys, but if they are doing their very best to stay true to the classics in concert, and they have the ability to write new music that stays true to the signature sound but is worth buying, then what does it really matter? Chicago has no original guys from what I understand, yet I've listened to some live clips on YouTube, and they still sound great. I miss the original voices, but I also realize that times change and bands evolve.

Sure, I'd love for Steve Perry to come back to Journey, but I also like the idea of the band moving on with new guys and recreating new, timeless music if it's possible. Just like KISS at one time were supposedly picking their replacements. I'd love the idea of having KISS, Journey, Chicago, Foreigner, or Kansas putting out new music 30 years from now. Maybe it's new players all around, but it's a brand that was started 40+ years ago and has stood the test of time.

In some of these bands making new music, it's like a TV show remake/spinoff. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. MASH was huge success, AfterMASH was horrible with many of the same actors. Hawaii Five 0 seems to have done OK as a remake, but isn't the original.

Chicago lists 4 of the original members as still with the band, but only 3 are playing on tour anymore. Robert Lamm, Lee Loughnane and Jimmy Panknow are the only 3 still on the road. Walt Parazaider is still listed as a member bur from doesn't tour due to health reasons. He has been replaced by Ray Hermann. Loughnane and Pankow sometimes have other guys fill in for them as well. The music doesn't suffer a bit because of it.

Thinking about the sequels a little more, Star Trek wasn't particularly successful in it's original run on TV. Then it took off in syndication. The Next Generation did really well. Enterprise, Voyager, etc. all had some degree of success. The Star Trek movies - with the original cast were both good and bad depending on which one. The Brand, however, lives on and is phenomenally successful, whether the original, NextGen, etc. I can see bands somewhat in that vein too.

[WalrusOct9]

I remember the Journey/Foreigner/Night Ranger tour a few years ago. Mick Jones missed some shows due to illness, so there literally were no actual members of Foreigner onstage who'd played on the original recording of any song in their setlist. And the audience didn't even notice. (Props to Kelly Hansen though, who did a great job, and connected with the audience more than Arnel did) I was never really a huge Foreigner fan, and even "real" Foreigner was down to one member at that point, but I was amazed they still played the gigs.

[scarab]

Saw LRB back in the late 90s i believe.
Figured Glenn Shorock wouldnt be there but was really surprised when only 1 guy that joined em I believe in 1980 and sang lead on only 1 1/2 hits was there. (and he did not write any of the hits)
They sounded ok, but first/last time I will see them.
Googled them, wow like 40+ past members.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_L ... nd_members

Wish I would have seen Shorrock/Birtles/Goble when they toured in the late 2000's
Now this is the LRB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMkRpmRXMW8

Love it when they say we are not the LRB but we sure sound like them.

[Eric]

I'm totally fine with bands morphing into bRands as long as its done over time and with care.

[JourneyHard]

I am NOT saying Perry will ever tour with Journey again, but if he did the tickets would have to be "Journey with Steve Perry!" Neal would probably be okay with it, but I wonder if Jon would.

[lparn]

I remember the Journey/Foreigner/Night Ranger tour a few years ago. Mick Jones missed some shows due to illness, so there literally were no actual members of Foreigner onstage who'd played on the original recording of any song in their setlist. And the audience didn't even notice. (Props to Kelly Hansen though, who did a great job, and connected with the audience more than Arnel did) I was never really a huge Foreigner fan, and even "real" Foreigner was down to one member at that point, but I was amazed they still played the gigs.

I am continually amazed by the musicians Mick Jones has assembled in Foreigner. I saw them last year in Durham ct. First time seeing kelly hansen live. Not only does he have an incredible voice, he connects with the audience and is entertaining. Mick Jones wasn't at that show. I knew he has had health problems.
I don't have a problem with bands replacing members. If musicIan's don't want to or can't continue seems like bands don't have a choice. I don't consider them a "tribute" band if one member chooses to continue. It is awesome to see new musicians pour new life into classic songs. Foreigner adds some newer songs to the set like say you will and starrider. They have also done acoustic versions. Would rather see that then the same songs every tour.

[DracIsBack]

Chicago lists 4 of the original members as still with the band, but only 3 are playing on tour anymore. Robert Lamm, Lee Loughnane and Jimmy Panknow are the only 3 still on the road. Walt Parazaider is still listed as a member bur from doesn't tour due to health reasons. He has been replaced by Ray Hermann. Loughnane and Pankow sometimes have other guys fill in for them as well. The music doesn't suffer a bit because of it.

That's debatable. The new lineup definitely has their fans, but there's definitely also a contingent that considers it a tired, unchanging oldies act. Especially when the vast overwhelming majority of songs on stage aren't sung by the people who sang them on record. It's not just one sub but many vocal subs. Cetera? Gone. Kath? Gone. Champlin? Gone. Scheff? Gone. Chicago's famous guitar player? Gone. Chicago's famous horn section? two of three still remain, but often only one shows up.


There's even been shows where Robert Lamm is the only guy on the stage.

[Greg]

I didn't understand the Metallica reference. I actually don't even understand the article. If concertgoers feel "tricked" into attending concerts and later finding out that none of the original members or 1/3 of the original members is/are in the band, then well, I don't know what to tell them. If you go to the concerts, you have a good time, the songs bring you back to the time in your life when they were new and you were young, then what does it really matter if the original members aren't there?

To me, I look at these classic bands are brands. Professional sports teams have players who retire and new players come onto the team. You still root for your favorite team even though that hall of famer is no longer playing for your team, why should it be different for music? It's one thing if the new guys are trying to dress and look like the old guys, but if they are doing their very best to stay true to the classics in concert, and they have the ability to write new music that stays true to the signature sound but is worth buying, then what does it really matter? Chicago has no original guys from what I understand, yet I've listened to some live clips on YouTube, and they still sound great. I miss the original voices, but I also realize that times change and bands evolve.

Sure, I'd love for Steve Perry to come back to Journey, but I also like the idea of the band moving on with new guys and recreating new, timeless music if it's possible. Just like KISS at one time were supposedly picking their replacements. I'd love the idea of having KISS, Journey, Chicago, Foreigner, or Kansas putting out new music 30 years from now. Maybe it's new players all around, but it's a brand that was started 40+ years ago and has stood the test of time.

In some of these bands making new music, it's like a TV show remake/spinoff. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. MASH was huge success, AfterMASH was horrible with many of the same actors. Hawaii Five 0 seems to have done OK as a remake, but isn't the original.

Chicago lists 4 of the original members as still with the band, but only 3 are playing on tour anymore. Robert Lamm, Lee Loughnane and Jimmy Panknow are the only 3 still on the road. Walt Parazaider is still listed as a member bur from doesn't tour due to health reasons. He has been replaced by Ray Hermann. Loughnane and Pankow sometimes have other guys fill in for them as well. The music doesn't suffer a bit because of it.

This kind of reminds me of each year, I go to a beach music festival (love beach music!) You almost don't have any original guys in the bands anymore. Even some of those bands have sort of changed names, even though they still perform the same music. It's still a fun time to be had. You're outdoors having a few beers, listening to "beer drinking" music, and enjoying yourself. People of all ages enjoy the music. I don't feel I've been through summer unless I've been to this beach music festival. I said that to say that the music and the bands themselves can continue on with new players, if you find the right guys who can do the back catalog justice, and who has the right vision to move the music into the next decade and on. Of course, if you're an up and coming musician or artist, you want to make a name for yourself and your band, not live behind the "mask" of someone else's claim to fame. That, I understand. But, maybe there are musicians out there who struggle to make it, because they haven't been given a chance. They're just as talented as anybody else, just as creative, but they need something that can get them into the business to be heard. Maybe being "drafted" by some of these classic rock bands could be a new approach to keeping the music alive while giving these artists the means to make some money and to be creative. I know similar ideas have been tried in the past. Didn't INXS try this?

All I know is, right now, people should probably just go out and enjoy the fact that these bands still tour, regardless who's in the band, and not be so picky. I haven't seen Chicago live yet. I haven't seen Styx. I haven't seen Foreigner. Seeing those bands would probably complete my classic rock tours. I've seen Journey, Kansas, Boston, REO Speedwagon, Loverboy and Night Ranger. I've probably missed out on Pink Floyd and Rush. But to have at least seen these acts, in some form, before they all completely go away is my goal.

[lparn]

There's a ton of bands out there without the original members
I have always loved journey and I will admit I was not really cool with Steve perry not being with them anymore
Saw them in 99 with Steve Augeri and was convinced am still a huge fan of his
Didn't accept Arnel at first however saw live in Manila and was convinced.
I was appreciative journey was still relevant and touring
Have always loved reo also they always do an awesome Show
I have seen Chicago many times I know Walt parazaider doesn't perform with then due to health
Would still love to see them especially Jimmy Pankow
I see the intent of the article esp to the casual fan who probably doesn't follow these bands on Facebook etc
They probably remember the music and want to see a show
And they aren't going to research or Google it
And see who is still in the band or not
I would be disappointed if Kevin Cronin wasn't in reo
OR the horn section not in Chicago
Probably wouldn't go see them
I love the lineup in Foreigner
I think they are doing an incredible job
However I only knew about after seeing them on axs and googling it
I'm just glad the music I love is still around

[tj]

Chicago lists 4 of the original members as still with the band, but only 3 are playing on tour anymore. Robert Lamm, Lee Loughnane and Jimmy Panknow are the only 3 still on the road. Walt Parazaider is still listed as a member bur from doesn't tour due to health reasons. He has been replaced by Ray Hermann. Loughnane and Pankow sometimes have other guys fill in for them as well. The music doesn't suffer a bit because of it.

That's debatable. The new lineup definitely has their fans, but there's definitely also a contingent that considers it a tired, unchanging oldies act. Especially when the vast overwhelming majority of songs on stage aren't sung by the people who sang them on record. It's not just one sub but many vocal subs. Cetera? Gone. Kath? Gone. Champlin? Gone. Scheff? Gone. Chicago's famous guitar player? Gone. Chicago's famous horn section? two of three still remain, but often only one shows up.


There's even been shows where Robert Lamm is the only guy on the stage.

I suppose that after 50 years of touring every single year, it would get old for a lot of people. I would see them again if I could.
Like most of the bands from that era, they put out a new album a couple of years ago and no one bought it, so touring gives the old guys who still want to play an chance to do it and pays the bills for the replacements.

I think only Cetera had a truly distinctive voice that hasn't been replicated. The Cetera/Scheff comparisons were still going on after Scheff had been in the band 25 years (Cetera was only with them for 17). I often thought that, particularly in the later years, Scheff trying to sound like Cetera on the Cetera songs was too forced. But Kath has been dead 40 years, Champlin's voice was going and Scheff's was as well (at least compared to their 80's level of singing). The guys on the road with them now still do a good job in my opinion.

[tj]

I have been listening to the Little River Band quite a bit again lately. Just re-bought their Greatest Hits. Only one guy in the touring band today had anything to do with the original band. Apparently the guy who owns the LRB rights and trademark hasn't even been with them for years and even he was a replacement after most of the hits were made.

The current group plays the hits, sometimes rearranged from the original recordings to change it up I suppose. My guess is that 95% of the audience couldn't tell you a single original member's name, so the fact that they are missing tells me that the songs are the most important thing with this band.

[lparn]

I remember the Journey/Foreigner/Night Ranger tour a few years ago. Mick Jones missed some shows due to illness, so there literally were no actual members of Foreigner onstage who'd played on the original recording of any song in their setlist. And the audience didn't even notice. (Props to Kelly Hansen though, who did a great job, and connected with the audience more than Arnel did) I was never really a huge Foreigner fan, and even "real" Foreigner was down to one member at that point, but I was amazed they still played the gigs.

I saw foreigner last year here in ct firsttime seeing them without lou gramm
There were 22,000 people there
Mick jones wasnt there
He was this year in Camden nj
They were incredible 100% very talented musicians
Kelly Hansen really connected with the audience
I havent felt that from journey the past 2years
They seem like they're phoning in the performance
Bands evolve and move on
It's about the songs and music
I think if they remain committed to that and have talented people
Its cool

[marco17]

Chicago lists 4 of the original members as still with the band, but only 3 are playing on tour anymore. Robert Lamm, Lee Loughnane and Jimmy Panknow are the only 3 still on the road. Walt Parazaider is still listed as a member bur from doesn't tour due to health reasons. He has been replaced by Ray Hermann. Loughnane and Pankow sometimes have other guys fill in for them as well. The music doesn't suffer a bit because of it.

That's debatable. The new lineup definitely has their fans, but there's definitely also a contingent that considers it a tired, unchanging oldies act. Especially when the vast overwhelming majority of songs on stage aren't sung by the people who sang them on record. It's not just one sub but many vocal subs. Cetera? Gone. Kath? Gone. Champlin? Gone. Scheff? Gone. Chicago's famous guitar player? Gone. Chicago's famous horn section? two of three still remain, but often only one shows up.


There's even been shows where Robert Lamm is the only guy on the stage.

I suppose that after 50 years of touring every single year, it would get old for a lot of people. I would see them again if I could.
Like most of the bands from that era, they put out a new album a couple of years ago and no one bought it, so touring gives the old guys who still want to play an chance to do it and pays the bills for the replacements.

I think only Cetera had a truly distinctive voice that hasn't been replicated. The Cetera/Scheff comparisons were still going on after Scheff had been in the band 25 years (Cetera was only with them for 17). I often thought that, particularly in the later years, Scheff trying to sound like Cetera on the Cetera songs was too forced. But Kath has been dead 40 years, Champlin's voice was going and Scheff's was as well (at least compared to their 80's level of singing). The guys on the road with them now still do a good job in my opinion.

I wasn't going to see them after Champlin left/fired, but I did with a girlfriend and they were good. I think, at least to me, it's when replacements are replacing the replacements. I remember Champlin's beef was that it's the same songs night after night... The band in that TV show a year ago made it out like he had a big ego and everyone wanted to hear him...not true... but a more mixed set would be nice. Similar to Journey, you can count on what songs you are going to hear. Agreed both Scheff and Champlin's vocals are or have been declining, but they aren't getting any younger either. Not as much wear and tear on the newer guys that replaced them. That said, since I have seen them semi-recently, I wouldn't waste the money to see them again.