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Postby Don » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:06 am

S2M wrote:For instance...I know my music isn't well received here, but it is catchy and good. If Journey would put out catchy songs with hooks like this:

Shakra - When I See You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prH6NGtok8U

they would quickly gain new fans, and become somewhat relevant again....


As relevant as Shakra? Do you think?

On one hand, you're pushing the point that Eclipse won't sell well but then you are saying that Journey would do well to copy the style of a band like Shakra that doesn't sell at all.

How does that make them more relevant than they already are?
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:24 am

I didn't think Revelation would sell. Didn't think the Manilla dvd would either. While Eclipse doesn't have any of the classics, the band could be poised for another hit.
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Postby steveo777 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:27 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I didn't think Revelation would sell. Didn't think the Manilla dvd would either. While Eclipse doesn't have any of the classics, the band could be poised for another hit.


Cash that check now....done deal! Infact, you watch and remember where you heard it first. City of Hope will be used in a movie, either in the beginning, or as part of a soundtrack. :D
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Postby S2M » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:37 am

Don wrote:
S2M wrote:For instance...I know my music isn't well received here, but it is catchy and good. If Journey would put out catchy songs with hooks like this:

Shakra - When I See You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prH6NGtok8U

they would quickly gain new fans, and become somewhat relevant again....


As relevant as Shakra? Do you think?

On one hand, you're pushing the point that Eclipse won't sell well but then you are saying that Journey would do well to copy the style of a band like Shakra that doesn't sell at all.

How does that make them more relevant than they already are?


Don, I know you are a smart guy....please don't insult my intelligence. I know my music isn't popular. Shakra will never be famous, even though they are better than 80% of the acts out there....sometimes it is who is singing the song. Remember that Survivor song, 'It's the Singer Not the Song'? Why is a particular song a hit with one singer, and not the next? It's the same song. I'm not saying that Journey should copy Shakra, or comparable songs....but the style is what's in right now in certan circles.

And please don't harp on the 'As relevant' as Shakra' crap....Journey isn't the end-all, be-all....I'm so tired of people sucking the collective cocks of Survivor, Toto, journey, Foreigner, Styx, and like bands....as if no other band can ever be as good.
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Postby Melissa » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:37 am

S2M wrote:For instance...I know my music isn't well received here, but it is catchy and good. If Journey would put out catchy songs with hooks like this:

Shakra - When I See You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prH6NGtok8U

they would quickly gain new fans, and become somewhat relevant again....


That's a great song, but I really don't think that would make them super relevant again. I'll be happy to eat my words if this new album actually does make them some kind of relevant again though, and it's because of the new album and not because of riding in the wake of DSB for the 1,938,847th time.
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Postby slucero » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:13 am

I'm thinking this will be the last Journey album...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby Don » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:16 am

slucero wrote:I'm thinking this will be the last Journey album...


Maybe the last original album but like a lot of other legacy acts, there is plenty of tread still left in releasing live albums at discount pricing with the occasional new track as a bonus.
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Postby slucero » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:29 am

Don wrote:
slucero wrote:I'm thinking this will be the last Journey album...


Maybe the last original album but like a lot of other legacy acts, there is plenty of tread still left in releasing live albums at discount pricing with the occasional new track as a bonus.


Agreed.

I expect JC to move on to producing in Nashville at his new studio and managing Madison's career..

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Postby Rip Rokken » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:43 am

koberry wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:Gorgeous haunting little riff by Neal at 0:25 and 4:07, reminds me of something off his solo records.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fswGoBEgSqU

Like TOTO's Dying on My Feet, (which Drew named song of the year), this new track, Edge of the Moment, is challenging, progressive, and really goes places. If you can't find the hook upon one take, that's a good thing. Was indifferent to it yesterday, now I can't get enough.



Oh yeah! This is the theme from the short vid Neal posted nearly 2 years ago. The melody is haunting, and I agree, gorgeous. Here's the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD2AocNK5A8


Good catch! I'd seen that video originally, but totally forgot about that riff.
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Postby steveo777 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:44 am

slucero wrote:
Don wrote:
slucero wrote:I'm thinking this will be the last Journey album...


Maybe the last original album but like a lot of other legacy acts, there is plenty of tread still left in releasing live albums at discount pricing with the occasional new track as a bonus.


Agreed.

I expect JC to move on to producing in Nashville at his new studio and managing Madison's career..


One would think, but these tours are a cash cow and how does one give that up when they are still able and willing to work? Would Rolie come back if Cain wanted to retire? That wouldn't be a bad thing. Come to think of it, Rolie is not really the sound that the masses love. :D
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Postby jrny84 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:47 am

Predictions on how it will fair on the billboard charts? Better or worse position than the #5 spot revelation received?
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Postby S2M » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:56 am

jrny84 wrote:Predictions on how it will fair on the billboard charts? Better or worse position than the #5 spot revelation received?


Arnel's novelty, and his rags to riches story has worn off....I'm thinking just on name alone is worth a few positions. But I think it gets no higher than 20, at best.
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Postby Don » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:57 am

jrny84 wrote:Predictions on how it will fair on the billboard charts? Better or worse position than the #5 spot revelation received?


With albums reaching #1 with 50k or less in sales the last few months (and seeing that Revelation sold 100,000 when it it debuted), I thought this had an easy chance at topping the charts. That was before I saw Lady GaGa has an album release that same week. I'm still predicting a top 3 spot though.
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Postby Don » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:02 am

S2M wrote:
jrny84 wrote:Predictions on how it will fair on the billboard charts? Better or worse position than the #5 spot revelation received?


Arnel's novelty, and his rags to riches story has worn off....I'm thinking just on name alone is worth a few positions. But I think it gets no higher than 20, at best.


That means it would end up selling less than 20,000. Just on purchases by diehards alone, it should surpass that.
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Postby Carlitto H@kk » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:05 am

jrny84 wrote:Predictions on how it will fair on the billboard charts? Better or worse position than the #5 spot revelation received?


This album could be the greatest musical statement ever made,
but who is really going to know about it outside of this forum?
Does anyone know if the band or Walmart plan on doing any type
of heavy promotion for this release???

All sarcasm aside, we know that no matter what the music sounds like,
unless its a slow, adult contemporary ballad, there isn't a market for
this kind of music anymore. The Big Corporate Music Machine does not
think it needs new music from bands like Journey. Its sad, but the media moguls
decide what to cram down our throats on radio and tv, and thats what ends up being popular.
It might get some play on XM & Sirrius but thats about it.

Worrying about record sales and billboard chart positions is meaningless,
and think the band knows this...
Maybe that's one of the meanings behind Cain's recent statement that
the band is "making a statement" with this album.
Maybe they want everyone to know that, not only
can they still make good music w/o Perry, but
there is more to this bad than just the standard radio-friendly ballads
and mid-tempo 80s re-hashes they've been
spitting out for the past few years.
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Postby slucero » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:03 am

steveo777 wrote:
slucero wrote:
Don wrote:
slucero wrote:I'm thinking this will be the last Journey album...


Maybe the last original album but like a lot of other legacy acts, there is plenty of tread still left in releasing live albums at discount pricing with the occasional new track as a bonus.


Agreed.

I expect JC to move on to producing in Nashville at his new studio and managing Madison's career..


One would think, but these tours are a cash cow and how does one give that up when they are still able and willing to work? Would Rolie come back if Cain wanted to retire? That wouldn't be a bad thing. Come to think of it, Rolie is not really the sound that the masses love. :D


I'm thinking that (in order of priority) JC is a:

1. Father
2. Songwriter
3. Journey member

He moved to Nashville when he first left Chicago as a young songwriter... he's a songwriter, Nashville is the "Mecca"... Now he's a soon to be studio owner, and he's already said he wants to produce...

Now he's moved there, for Madison... and for him as a songwriter... it's familiar ground and an easy move... he alluded to this in his recent interview...

I think he can make as much as he makes in Journey touring by producing and writing... and at this point in his life... I'm sure he doesn't really "need" the money anyways... as much as he'd rather be more a part of his families' lives...


Missing more of his families lives...
Playing 20 year old songs for strangers...

OR

Stay at home more (At 61 years old)
Writing new songs in Nashville
Helping his daughter's career (and be a part of it)
Produce in his studio

I'm sorry... this is pretty obvious (At least to me)

JC is setting the stage for his next step in life. And good for him.. he's paid his dues and earned it.

For me this is how his interview adds up...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby Rip Rokken » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:17 am

Don wrote:
S2M wrote:For instance...I know my music isn't well received here, but it is catchy and good. If Journey would put out catchy songs with hooks like this:

Shakra - When I See You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prH6NGtok8U

they would quickly gain new fans, and become somewhat relevant again....


As relevant as Shakra? Do you think?

On one hand, you're pushing the point that Eclipse won't sell well but then you are saying that Journey would do well to copy the style of a band like Shakra that doesn't sell at all.

How does that make them more relevant than they already are?


Oh my gosh... I thought he said Shakira...

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That Shakra song is pretty boring to me, btw. No replay value in my mind. Not even sure what makes it any example, especially comparing it to Journey. Apples to oranges.
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Postby steveo777 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:28 am

S2M wrote:
jrny84 wrote:Predictions on how it will fair on the billboard charts? Better or worse position than the #5 spot revelation received?


Arnel's novelty, and his rags to riches story has worn off....I'm thinking just on name alone is worth a few positions. But I think it gets no higher than 20, at best.


That was to be expected. Nowdays he and Journey work on their own merits and he has earned respect and after this album will have his proper place in music, not just bearing the label as the guy who replaced the replacements. :wink:
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Postby Behshad » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:28 am

Shakira is way better than Shakra. Catchy songs with hooks ;)
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Postby Rip Rokken » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:29 am

S2M wrote:I know my music isn't popular.


Keep all your music you want... just take the opinions, please.

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S2M wrote:I'm not saying that Journey should copy Shakra, or comparable songs....but the style is what's in right now in certan circles.


"What's in style" often equates to crap. Commercial bands are cranked out on a mass assembly line these days, and milked for a "hit" before they are discarded. Keep 'em disposable so they won't pose any problems for their record companies.

S2M wrote:And please don't harp on the 'As relevant' as Shakra' crap....Journey isn't the end-all, be-all....I'm so tired of people sucking the collective cocks of Survivor, Toto, journey, Foreigner, Styx, and like bands....as if no other band can ever be as good.


Gene Simmons was right -- there aren't any real new "rock stars" out there anymore. Just American Idols and label puppets. The guys who really know how to do it are still proving they have it. The crap being churned out will not still be being played in 20-30 years, and nobody will recognize their names or remember their songs. That era is kinda gone, save for the few classic bands who still have pull and write their own material.
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Postby S2M » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:58 am

With all due respect Rip, the difference between you and I is that you are the one stuck in the past. You seem to embrace new if it is one of your core of favorites that is doing the changing....whereas I'm open to more groups. You were quick to shoot down that Shakra song....which is ok. But if it were a Dokken song you'd be all over it. I honestly think you are incapable of being objective when it comes to music. I bet you I could list 300 songs for you to listen to, not one of them being from a classic 'melodic rock' group, and you'd find something wrong with everyone of them. But perhaps there just isn't room in your life for more than 5 or 6 core groups....especially ones in which you haven't ingratiated yourself with, or chased down for an autograph.... :P :lol:
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Postby Behshad » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:05 am

S2M wrote:With all due respect Rip, the difference between you and I is that you are the one stuck in the past. You seem to embrace new if it is one of your core of favorites that is doing the changing....whereas I'm open to more groups. You were quick to shoot down that Shakra song....which is ok. But if it were a Dokken song you'd be all over it. I honestly think you are incapable of being objective when it comes to music. I bet you I could list 300 songs for you to listen to, not one of them being from a classic 'melodic rock' group, and you'd find something wrong with everyone of them. But perhaps there just isn't room in your life for more than 5 or 6 core groups....especially ones in which you haven't ingratiated yourself with, or chased down for an autograph.... :P :lol:




You're stuck on quality over quantity. ;)
I rather have 100 quality songs from five bands that I enjoy , rather than listen to 6000 songs from 200 bands just " to say I like music " ;)
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Postby RedWingFan » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:22 am

Behshad wrote:
S2M wrote:With all due respect Rip, the difference between you and I is that you are the one stuck in the past. You seem to embrace new if it is one of your core of favorites that is doing the changing....whereas I'm open to more groups. You were quick to shoot down that Shakra song....which is ok. But if it were a Dokken song you'd be all over it. I honestly think you are incapable of being objective when it comes to music. I bet you I could list 300 songs for you to listen to, not one of them being from a classic 'melodic rock' group, and you'd find something wrong with everyone of them. But perhaps there just isn't room in your life for more than 5 or 6 core groups....especially ones in which you haven't ingratiated yourself with, or chased down for an autograph.... :P :lol:




You're stuck on quality over quantity. ;)
I rather have 100 quality songs from five bands that I enjoy , rather than listen to 6000 songs from 200 bands just " to say I like music " ;)

You mean "quantity over quality" right? :wink:
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Postby Rip Rokken » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:33 am

S2M wrote:With all due respect Rip, the difference between you and I is that you are the one stuck in the past. You seem to embrace new if it is one of your core of favorites that is doing the changing....whereas I'm open to more groups.


LOL... No, I'm stuck on talent, haha! I don't understand people today (which seem to be the masses, unfortunately) who don't want to hear new music from older groups -- just the "classic" hits. I'm loyal to groups over songs, so if I like the group, I'll always want to hear new music out of them. I personally can't imagine being a fan of a song without being interested in the group, but many people, especially the younger ones who are raised on digital music, seem to be exactly that these days. They don't have that much to choose from though.

S2M wrote:You were quick to shoot down that Shakra song....which is ok. But if it were a Dokken song you'd be all over it. I honestly think you are incapable of being objective when it comes to music. I bet you I could list 300 songs for you to listen to, not one of them being from a classic 'melodic rock' group, and you'd find something wrong with everyone of them.

I gave it a full listen and it just didn't grab me. I actually only watched it because someone else also said it was a good song, so that creates independent attestation. And I judge songs on their own merits, not the bands who perform them. I will definitely judge bands by their songs though -- just not the songs by the band. That means, a band I truly despise could put out a good song and I'd acknowledge it. A band I love could put out a mediocre or horrible song, and I'd hate it. Truth, and matter of fact, I didn't care for that new Europe song recently posted, and trust me, I'm always excited to hear new Europe. If the song you posted had been a Dokken song, I would have been disappointed as well, but I just don't see that happening -- Don Dokken doesn't write bad songs. Even the songs he hates, I love. The man just has that much songwriting talent. :)

Maybe the Shakra song could grow on me, it's possible, but I can't envision that. Maybe the Europe song as well. I just didn't care for either of them after a full listen of each.

S2M wrote:But perhaps there just isn't room in your life for more than 5 or 6 core groups....especially ones in which you haven't ingratiated yourself with, or chased down for an autograph.... :P :lol:


Man, I spend too much energy correcting you. Luckily I've had some caffeine today. I'm always open to new bands, and even new genres. Hard/heavy melodic rock is obviously my favorite, but I'm into pop and all sorts of stuff. Just no country or hip-hop. Eden's Curse is a perfect example -- discovered them by accident on YouTube, thinking I was pulling up another band's material. Loved them right off the bat, and I believe Michael Eden will surely conquer the world. James LaBrie from Dream Theater is backing them up on their new album, btw.

Another perfect example of a band I grew to love was Garbage -- Shirley Manson is, well, you know. Hopefully, anyway. Very talented band with dark, deep lyrical content.

Sure, I'm not always on the active hunt for new bands because I have so much newer stuff to listen to already, but am always open when I hear them. Andrew's MelodicRock CD's are excellent for doing just that, and I've learned quite a bit from them. Also, I just got the Within Temptation CD "The Silent Force" a couple of weeks ago, based on your recommendation actually. That's why I know you haven't gone completely over to the dark side, young Padawan. There is still good in you.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:35 am

Behshad wrote:I rather have 100 quality songs from five bands that I enjoy , rather than listen to 6000 songs from 200 bands just " to say I like music " ;)


Agreed! Otherwise, I'd actually download all those free tunes Starbucks gives away. Worthless!

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Postby youkeepmewaiting » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:40 am

Alter Bridge, Hinder, Anberlin, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, Simple Plan, Shinedown, Stone Sour, Avenged Sevenfold... plenty of good new rock bands around today

Especially Anberlin!
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Postby Rip Rokken » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:03 pm

youkeepmewaiting wrote:Alter Bridge, Hinder, Anberlin, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, Simple Plan, Shinedown, Stone Sour, Avenged Sevenfold... plenty of good new rock bands around today

Especially Anberlin!


I've heard good things about some of them, but haven't gotten around to them. Gimme a sample! :)
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Postby Triple S » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:22 pm

Rip Rokken wrote:
youkeepmewaiting wrote:Alter Bridge, Hinder, Anberlin, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, Simple Plan, Shinedown, Stone Sour, Avenged Sevenfold... plenty of good new rock bands around today

Especially Anberlin!


I've heard good things about some of them, but haven't gotten around to them. Gimme a sample! :)


I love Stone Sour - 2 of my favorites from Audio Secrecy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEn-nTkbEM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv5D2gc_ ... re=related
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Postby youkeepmewaiting » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:23 pm

Rip Rokken wrote:
youkeepmewaiting wrote:Alter Bridge, Hinder, Anberlin, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, Simple Plan, Shinedown, Stone Sour, Avenged Sevenfold... plenty of good new rock bands around today

Especially Anberlin!


I've heard good things about some of them, but haven't gotten around to them. Gimme a sample! :)


Certainly sir..

Alter Bridge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-I8ALlYxdY&feature=fvst

Anberlin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-HpHadZGLk

Hinder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXs_mFRUFC8

RJA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOqua-Cny4g

Shinedown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H25ORRgLxdA

Stone Sour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEn-nTkbEM0

Avenged Sevenfold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UvyvpmMDHg

Simple Plan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-pQBDE5Gbg
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Postby Triple S » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:30 pm

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