President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:45 am

Behshad wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:Thank you for the TV commercial idea Barry,

Love,
Mitt


If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

- Barack Obama July 14, 2012


Surprise Surprise, the villiage idiot has to twist everything. :roll: It's very simple and every business owner knows that the most important part of a business is the clients. :wink:


Obama wasn't referring to clients in his speech



Enlighten us , kindly ! :)


He said in his speech if you built a business you didn't build it yourself . That you relied on someone else to provide you with an education , the roads, , the infrastructure,the finance etc. Therefore you dont own the fruits of your labor and you owe it all to someone else.

There are a number of logical fallacies to that argument. First of all , if that infrastructure didn't exist from the government, it is likely that businessmen within the community would club together, pay for the building of roads, create the infrastructure, build schools. etc.
Secondly business people have no choice but to use , for example Interstate 10 to move their goods down the road, its a public road and private roads aren't allowed. it does not follow that you logically owe someone for the use of goods/infrastructure that you were forced to use.

Also assuming Obama was referring to clients in his speech. If he did mean that (and he didn't) that would be a false argument as well. There is an economic law called Says law that says "Supply creates its own demand" A client can't demand a good that hasn't been dreamed up by an innovator . You can't want an IPOD if there is no Steve Jobs inventing it .
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Postby Fact Finder » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:48 am

What came first, the Model T or I-75?
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:52 am

Fact Finder wrote:What came first, the Model T or I-75?


Bingo :!:
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Postby Behshad » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:55 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:Thank you for the TV commercial idea Barry,

Love,
Mitt


If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

- Barack Obama July 14, 2012


Surprise Surprise, the villiage idiot has to twist everything. :roll: It's very simple and every business owner knows that the most important part of a business is the clients. :wink:


Obama wasn't referring to clients in his speech



Enlighten us , kindly ! :)


He said in his speech if you built a business you didn't build it yourself . That you relied on someone else to provide you with an education , the roads, , the infrastructure,the finance etc. Therefore you dont own the fruits of your labor and you owe it all to someone else.

There are a number of logical fallacies to that argument. First of all , if that infrastructure didn't exist from the government, it is likely that businessmen within the community would club together, pay for the building of roads, create the infrastructure, build schools. etc.
Secondly business people have no choice but to use , for example Interstate 10 to move their goods down the road, its a public road and private roads aren't allowed. it does not follow that you logically owe someone for the use of goods/infrastructure that you were forced to use.

Also assuming Obama was referring to clients in his speech. If he did mean that (and he didn't) that would be a false argument as well. There is an economic law called Says law that says "Supply creates its own demand" A client can't demand a good that hasn't been dreamed up by an innovator . You can't want an IPOD if there is no Steve Jobs inventing it .


At the same token, if you create IPODS and you have ZERO clients, then they will be called BETA MAX players. ;)

People like FakeFinder take ONE part of the speech out of context and try to twist the words. Typical FF.
Obama never said anything about involvement of GOVERNMENT. He simply explained the ALL FOR ONE - ONE FOR ALL.
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Postby Fact Finder » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:00 am

Behshad wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:Thank you for the TV commercial idea Barry,

Love,
Mitt


If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

- Barack Obama July 14, 2012


Surprise Surprise, the villiage idiot has to twist everything. :roll: It's very simple and every business owner knows that the most important part of a business is the clients. :wink:


Obama wasn't referring to clients in his speech



Enlighten us , kindly ! :)


He said in his speech if you built a business you didn't build it yourself . That you relied on someone else to provide you with an education , the roads, , the infrastructure,the finance etc. Therefore you dont own the fruits of your labor and you owe it all to someone else.

There are a number of logical fallacies to that argument. First of all , if that infrastructure didn't exist from the government, it is likely that businessmen within the community would club together, pay for the building of roads, create the infrastructure, build schools. etc.
Secondly business people have no choice but to use , for example Interstate 10 to move their goods down the road, its a public road and private roads aren't allowed. it does not follow that you logically owe someone for the use of goods/infrastructure that you were forced to use.

Also assuming Obama was referring to clients in his speech. If he did mean that (and he didn't) that would be a false argument as well. There is an economic law called Says law that says "Supply creates its own demand" A client can't demand a good that hasn't been dreamed up by an innovator . You can't want an IPOD if there is no Steve Jobs inventing it .


At the same token, if you create IPODS and you have ZERO clients, then they will be called BETA MAX players. ;)

People like FakeFinder take ONE part of the speech out of context and try to twist the words. Typical FF.
Obama never said anything about involvement of GOVERNMENT. He simply explained the ALL FOR ONE - ONE FOR ALL.



BB, lying is unbecoming of you. I NEVER said one word about this issue, NOT ONE. I only posted BO's quote and thanked him for the commercial idea. You inferring something from that is your problem not mine.
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Postby slucero » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:00 am

Obama's whole term has been a logical fallacy..
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Postby Yoda » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:01 am

Behshad wrote: He simply explained the ALL FOR ONE - ONE FOR ALL.


What does THAT mean? That if I go out and make a billion dollars, I'm supposed to share it with others and others share their wealth with me?
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Postby Behshad » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:03 am

Yoda wrote:
Behshad wrote: He simply explained the ALL FOR ONE - ONE FOR ALL.


What does THAT mean? That if I go out and make a billion dollars, I'm supposed to share it with others and others share their wealth with me?


no, that it means we are all in this together, that a business owner needs its workers and suppliers and clients as much as they need the business and its owner.
Nothing was said about sharing the wealth. People just add their own ( in FakeFinder sake , Limbaughs) spin to things.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:04 am

Behshad wrote:
At the same token, if you create IPODS and you have ZERO clients, then they will be called BETA MAX players. ;)

People like FakeFinder take ONE part of the speech out of context and try to twist the words. Typical FF.
Obama never said anything about involvement of GOVERNMENT. He simply explained the ALL FOR ONE - ONE FOR ALL.



No he did refer to government. Read the statement. He starts talking about the need to for higher taxes- and this thing about you didn't own your business was the reason why taxes needed to go up - to pay for all the government funded infrastructor you used.
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Postby Behshad » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:05 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:Thank you for the TV commercial idea Barry,

Love,
Mitt


If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

- Barack Obama July 14, 2012


Surprise Surprise, the villiage idiot has to twist everything. :roll: It's very simple and every business owner knows that the most important part of a business is the clients. :wink:


Obama wasn't referring to clients in his speech



Enlighten us , kindly ! :)


He said in his speech if you built a business you didn't build it yourself . That you relied on someone else to provide you with an education , the roads, , the infrastructure,the finance etc. Therefore you dont own the fruits of your labor and you owe it all to someone else.

There are a number of logical fallacies to that argument. First of all , if that infrastructure didn't exist from the government, it is likely that businessmen within the community would club together, pay for the building of roads, create the infrastructure, build schools. etc.
Secondly business people have no choice but to use , for example Interstate 10 to move their goods down the road, its a public road and private roads aren't allowed. it does not follow that you logically owe someone for the use of goods/infrastructure that you were forced to use.

Also assuming Obama was referring to clients in his speech. If he did mean that (and he didn't) that would be a false argument as well. There is an economic law called Says law that says "Supply creates its own demand" A client can't demand a good that hasn't been dreamed up by an innovator . You can't want an IPOD if there is no Steve Jobs inventing it .


At the same token, if you create IPODS and you have ZERO clients, then they will be called BETA MAX players. ;)

People like FakeFinder take ONE part of the speech out of context and try to twist the words. Typical FF.
Obama never said anything about involvement of GOVERNMENT. He simply explained the ALL FOR ONE - ONE FOR ALL.



BB, lying is unbecoming of you. I NEVER said one word about this issue, NOT ONE. I only posted BO's quote and thanked him for the commercial idea. You inferring something from that is your problem not mine.


You chose ONE part of it, as I said. why not share the whole speech ! ;)


“If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president — because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”
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Postby Behshad » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:08 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Behshad wrote:
At the same token, if you create IPODS and you have ZERO clients, then they will be called BETA MAX players. ;)

People like FakeFinder take ONE part of the speech out of context and try to twist the words. Typical FF.
Obama never said anything about involvement of GOVERNMENT. He simply explained the ALL FOR ONE - ONE FOR ALL.



No he did refer to government. Read the statement. He starts talking about the need to for higher taxes- and this thing about you didn't own your business was the reason why taxes needed to go up - to pay for all the government funded infrastructor you used.


Where does he say anything about higher taxes ? :?
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:13 am

If what BO is saying is true, then what happened to Solyndra, since they got an even bigger ($500Million) Obamahelpinghand.

The roads, bridges, infrastructure and all this that BO mentioned has all been paid for by the hard working tax payers every year, unless BO is saying the government gets it's funding from someone other then the tax payers. All companies across the board use the same roads, bridges, infrastructure, etc. so why do some make it and some don't?

Every day BO proves more and more that he's a friggin no-load.
Last edited by The Sushi Hunter on Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:15 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:
The roads, bridges, infrastructure and all this that BO mentioned has all been paid for by the hard working tax payers every year, unless BO is saying the government gets it's funding from someone other then the tax payers.
.


and if there were no government to build road, I assure you that a group of private citizens would build the roads and bridges. Guaranteed.
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Postby Behshad » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:19 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
The roads, bridges, infrastructure and all this that BO mentioned has all been paid for by the hard working tax payers every year, unless BO is saying the government gets it's funding from someone other then the tax payers.
.


and if there were no government to build road, I assure you that a group of private citizens would build the roads and bridges. Guaranteed.


So why do we even need government. Why even vote. Why not just get rid of government, dont pay taxes and just let few people like Donald Trump run this country :lol:
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:23 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
The roads, bridges, infrastructure and all this that BO mentioned has all been paid for by the hard working tax payers every year, unless BO is saying the government gets it's funding from someone other then the tax payers.
.


and if there were no government to build road, I assure you that a group of private citizens would build the roads and bridges. Guaranteed.


Yeah and they'd build it better, faster, and with more efficient ingenuity with less money.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:25 am

Behshad wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
The roads, bridges, infrastructure and all this that BO mentioned has all been paid for by the hard working tax payers every year, unless BO is saying the government gets it's funding from someone other then the tax payers.
.


and if there were no government to build road, I assure you that a group of private citizens would build the roads and bridges. Guaranteed.


So why do we even need government. Why even vote. Why not just get rid of government, dont pay taxes and just let few people like Donald Trump run this country :lol:


We don't really need government - only to defend individuals from violations of their rights, violence , aggression and fraud.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:26 am

Behshad wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
The roads, bridges, infrastructure and all this that BO mentioned has all been paid for by the hard working tax payers every year, unless BO is saying the government gets it's funding from someone other then the tax payers.
.


and if there were no government to build road, I assure you that a group of private citizens would build the roads and bridges. Guaranteed.


So why do we even need government. Why even vote. Why not just get rid of government, dont pay taxes and just let few people like Donald Trump run this country :lol:


That's the concept in places such as Samolia and Nigeria. Yet we see how far it has gotten them.
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Postby Behshad » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:31 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
The roads, bridges, infrastructure and all this that BO mentioned has all been paid for by the hard working tax payers every year, unless BO is saying the government gets it's funding from someone other then the tax payers.
.


and if there were no government to build road, I assure you that a group of private citizens would build the roads and bridges. Guaranteed.


So why do we even need government. Why even vote. Why not just get rid of government, dont pay taxes and just let few people like Donald Trump run this country :lol:


That's the concept in Africa. Yet we see how far that got them.


OK so make up your mind, we need them or we dont need them ?

The bridge and roads and all were paid for and by TAX PAYERS money. but if we dont have government to keep things organized and keep track of taxation system and how its spent and what its spend on, then we will be like Africa. Also, people love to complain and point fingers and find a bad guy to blame their own failures on. Government is bad when people cant do their own job, but of course government is great when they can go there for unemployment, welfare etc.
Even if we managed to have a normal society without government, those who like to bitch and complain would still find something to bitch and complain about.
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Postby Monker » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:35 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
The roads, bridges, infrastructure and all this that BO mentioned has all been paid for by the hard working tax payers every year, unless BO is saying the government gets it's funding from someone other then the tax payers.
.


and if there were no government to build road, I assure you that a group of private citizens would build the roads and bridges. Guaranteed.


LOL...that is hysterically funny. It took until the 1950's to START building the interstate highway system. No 'band of citizens' got together to do that..and they had decades to do it. No band of citizens gather together to maintain it either. They would rather let it decay and drive on a dirt road then build and manager the interstate.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:37 am

So then what happened to Solyndra. They used the same everything all the other companies used, plus they got the extra $500 Million Obamahelpinghand but didn't even stay in business longer then BO's first term. What gives? They failed big time.
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Postby slucero » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:44 am

The Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways (commonly known as the Interstate Highway System, Interstate Freeway System or the Interstate) was never built for "the People"... it was because Eisenhower gained an appreciation of the German Autobahn network as a necessary component of a national defense system while he was serving as Supreme Commander of the Allied forces in Europe during World War II.[9] He recognized that the proposed system would also provide key ground transport routes for military supplies and troop deployments in case of an emergency or foreign invasion.
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Postby Fact Finder » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:53 am

I gotta learn you guys everything.... :wink:


The notion of private highways, which would seem fantastic to our parents, was commonplace to our great-great-grandparents. Initiated in the 1790s in the growing Republic, these roads stimulated commerce, settlement, and population. During the nineteenth century more than 2,000 private companies financed, built, and operated toll roads. States turned to private initiative for much the same reason they are doing so today: fiscal constraints and insufficient administrative manpower. Knowledge of our toll-road heritage may help encourage today’s budding toll-road movement.

The Turnpike Heyday, 1800-1825

Once the state of Pennsylvania chartered a private company in 1792 to build a road connecting Philadelphia and Lancaster, rival states felt impelled to follow. Private initiative was the only effective means of providing new highways, because state and county finances were almost nonexistent and town resources were meager. Private control and user fees were bold steps, but once taken, states could only continue to move forward. In an age before the canal and railroad, legislators were willing to test community and political custom to get highways built.
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Postby No Surprize » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:10 am

You know I rarely get involved with political mud slinging, just not my style. But I regress in the name of fucking sanity. Do you REALLY want a republican in office? Wait, I regress even farther, A MORMON fucking republican? Pretty soon all the oil tycoons will have 7 wives and 1000 different ways to defer their money. I'm ALL for paying my fair share of what the fuck ever. I have been fortunate and help out all I possibly can. But I will NEVER, as long as I'm sucking wind, vote for a republican again. That being said there are thousands of things wrong with this nation and how it's ran and one person cannot solve it when he's up against 400 senators, 500 congressman, 600 legislatures, etc. To much government period is the problem. Cut the fucking red tape. It's unreal the shit that you have to wade thru to get a bill passed, a patent passed etc. And who has the right to say I can't smoke a fatty when I want? Is it that degree from Columbia, Yale, Harvard? What makes them all fucking powerful? Fuck em.
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Postby slucero » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:03 pm

No Surprize wrote:You know I rarely get involved with political mud slinging, just not my style. But I regress in the name of fucking sanity. Do you REALLY want a republican in office? Wait, I regress even farther, A MORMON fucking republican? Pretty soon all the oil tycoons will have 7 wives and 1000 different ways to defer their money. I'm ALL for paying my fair share of what the fuck ever. I have been fortunate and help out all I possibly can. But I will NEVER, as long as I'm sucking wind, vote for a republican again. That being said there are thousands of things wrong with this nation and how it's ran and one person cannot solve it when he's up against 400 senators, 500 congressman, 600 legislatures, etc. To much government period is the problem. Cut the fucking red tape. It's unreal the shit that you have to wade thru to get a bill passed, a patent passed etc. And who has the right to say I can't smoke a fatty when I want? Is it that degree from Columbia, Yale, Harvard? What makes them all fucking powerful? Fuck em.



no... its the people who vote them in to office...
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Postby hoagiepete » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:36 pm

No Surprize wrote:You know I rarely get involved with political mud slinging, just not my style. But I regress in the name of fucking sanity. Do you REALLY want a republican in office? Wait, I regress even farther, A MORMON fucking republican? Pretty soon all the oil tycoons will have 7 wives and 1000 different ways to defer their money. I'm ALL for paying my fair share of what the fuck ever. I have been fortunate and help out all I possibly can. But I will NEVER, as long as I'm sucking wind, vote for a republican again. That being said there are thousands of things wrong with this nation and how it's ran and one person cannot solve it when he's up against 400 senators, 500 congressman, 600 legislatures, etc. To much government period is the problem. Cut the fucking red tape. It's unreal the shit that you have to wade thru to get a bill passed, a patent passed etc. And who has the right to say I can't smoke a fatty when I want? Is it that degree from Columbia, Yale, Harvard? What makes them all fucking powerful? Fuck em.


So based on this, you'd vote for a Democrat???

We may have passed the tipping point. So many people have become dependant on the government, if they vote, all they will ask for is more...and get it until we are completely broke. This includes government employees. Inside the beltway needs an enema. The staffers and agencies are the red tape producers. Their liviehood depends on it. The worst part is they have no idea how the red tape and impacts real America.

Again, so you would vote for a Democrat but not a Republican?
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Postby Fact Finder » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:36 am

Posted July 12th, 2012

Staggering Health Insurance Premiums Right Around the Corner, Predicts Premera Vice President

Don’t Expect Premiums to go Down With Health Care Reform – Some Customers Might See Increases of 50 to 70 Percent

By Erik Smith
Washington State Wire

http://washingtonstatewire.com/blog/sta ... president/

OLYMPIA, July 12.—If you think the cost of health insurance is going to go down under health care reform, think again, says the CEO of Washington state’s largest individual-insurance health plan. Many purchasers of individual insurance plans may see premiums rise 50 to 70 percent.

It was a statement Tuesday that hushed the room at a health care policy conference sponsored by the Washington Policy Center at the Doubletree Inn at Seatac. The policies that drive those numbers are no secret. They are embedded in the Affordable Care Act, which has been the law of the land since 2010. But with the Supreme Court’s decision last month to uphold the law it has become clear that health care reform is coming. Jeff Roe’s statement might be taken as a word of warning. Fasten your seatbelts. It’s going to be a bumpy ride.

“This is massively bigger than we appreciate, and may be bigger than we are capable of pulling off successfully,” said Roe, senior vice president for employer and individual markets at Premera Blue Cross and CEO of its affiliated company, LifeWise Health Plan of Washington. Someday, he said, the nation might be able to “look back and see if we landed safely and squarely and whether it is a step forward. Today I think the answer is unknown.”

Roe’s comments created a buzz at the conference, where most attendees had some connection with the health industry or state policymaking circles. Given the complexity of the new federal law and the raft of new state laws designed to implement it, it has been difficult for anyone outside the insurance business or regulatory arena to translate it to a bottom-line number. But Roe’s figures, based on an analysis of his own company’s book of business, tied it all together. They challenge one of the central assumptions many have had about the new system that is just around the corner in 2014. Many figure that competition on insurance “exchanges,” the new state-by-state marketplaces for insurance policies, is going to drive costs down. In fact, costs are going to go up, and for the typical buyer of individual insurance policies, the increase might cause the jaw to drop.

At the very least, Roe argued, state policymakers now implementing health care reform need to avoid decisions that would further drive up the cost of insurance.

Richer Benefits

Reasons for the increases are all a bit technical, as is seemingly everything associated with the new law. A key point is that right now, most people who buy their own insurance policies, rather than obtaining them through their employers, try to minimize premium costs by buying policies with larger deductibles and copayments. But under health care reform, insurance policies will have to provide a richer level of benefits. The typical LifeWise customer purchases a policy with an actuarial value of 0.4 – meaning that the aggregate percentage of medical costs that are paid by the health plan rather than the customer is 40 percent. Under health care reform, plans that are sold on exchanges must have a value of at least 60 percent. So that means the benefits package has to be 50 percent richer.

Under the federal law, insurance companies can offer policies outside the exchange as well. But the Washington Legislature passed a law this year that essentially says insurance companies must provide the same policies outside the exchange as they do within it – because without the rule, state regulators argued that customers would flee and buy less-expensive insurance on the open market.

Add the effect of the mandates and taxes that are embedded in the act, and the fact that insurance companies will not be able to deny coverage to those with a pre-existing condition. Then add the fact that customers now served by the state’s program for high-risk customers will be entering the general insurance population. It becomes clear that the cost of the typical insurance policy will go higher, Roe said.

And the law doesn’t provide much relief. The law will offer subsidies in the form of tax credits to those who make less than 400 percent of the federal poverty level. But most current purchasers of insurance policies will not qualify, and for those who do, the subsidies may not be enough to offset the cost. That’s because the subsidies will be set on a sliding scale based on income.

“I think it is staggering that in fact the Affordable Care Act increases the per-person cost of health care from $9,000 to $14,000,” he said. “I find that just staggering. To focus in on two costs, though, I think really drives home that point.

Big Premium Increases

“The first is that in the individual market, we expect the cost of premiums to go up anywhere from 50 to 70 percent. Staggering amounts, and I can build that up for you this way.

“Our most popular plan in the market is our WiseEssentials Rx plan. It is a catastrophic plan with an actuarial value of 0.48. The minimum in the market allowed under the ACA is 0.6. So just on that basis it is a 25 percent increase.

“We expect the uninsured to add 15 percent in additional costs, because we know that they are less healthy than those in the system today, and if we get entrants from the high-risk pool, we can expect costs to go up another 11 percent.

“And then there is the insurer tax, which is 2 ½ percent. There is the exchange assessment, which could be as much as 5 percent. There is the Rx [drug] and device tax, which is 1 percent.

“So put that all together, compound it, and you are easily at 55, 60, maybe even 70 percent. Those are enormous increases.

Few Qualify for Subsidies

“And by the way, we talk about the subsidies and the benefits those subsidies provide. The fact is, there is a huge portion of the population that will not benefit from the subsidies.

“Seventy-five percent of our LifeWise Washington membership today is above 400 percent of the federal poverty level and will see no benefit from subsidies.”

In the small-group marketplace, meanwhile, where many employers purchase insurance, Premera estimates that risks will increase 7 percent to 9 percent, Roe said. “So there is another 7 to 9 percent in costs.”

An Important Qualifier

It should be noted that the premium-increase figures cited by Roe will not apply to everyone, points out Premera spokesman Eric Earling. There are plenty of variables. Certainly those who already are buying more-generous insurance policies will not see so great an increase. Perhaps it is safer to say simply that premiums will rise profoundly. But that’s the central message. Under health care reform, insurance premiums aren’t going down, and it’s something people better plan for.

In his presentation, Roe noted that insurance companies aren’t making the fat profit margins that many assume. In Premera’s case, it is 1 percent to 2 percent. Though 85 percent of the premiums collected go to medical services, leaving 15 percent, Roe said most of the remainder is consumed by such expenses as administrative costs, distribution costs and premium taxes.

Guaranteed Issue an Issue

He pointed out that the biggest insurers have been losing money on the individual market. Last year LifeWise lost $11 million, Regence lost $23 million and Group Health lost $6 million.

Premera attributes about one-third to one-half of the losses to regulatory policies that have eroded the rules surrounding the state’s high-risk insurance program. Basically, health plans in Washington state utilize a questionnaire that is designed to screen out the highest-risk patients, about eight percent of the population. They are eligible for the separate state program, which is subsidized by taxes on insurers. But regulatory changes have exempted about 40 percent of new insurance enrollees from the questionnaire. That has big implications for the new world of insurance that is around the corner in 2014, when “guaranteed issue” becomes the norm.

Roe called for more transparency in medical costs, mechanisms that would make consumers responsible for their medical-care choices, and rules that would penalize customers who drop insurance when they don’t need it and try to re-obtain it when they do. If regulators attempt to suppress rates, he said the state risks a repeat of the meltdown that took place in the late ‘90s, when insurers lost hundreds of millions and pulled out of Washington state’s individual insurance market. Premera, like other insurers, argues against efforts by the Office of Insurance Commissioner to consider companies’ surpluses in setting rates – essentially requiring them to take money out of the piggy-bank in order to keep rates low. The companies argue they may need it because of all the uncertainties ahead.

“The industry is in a perilous place right now, and I think given the additional costs that are on the horizon related to benefit increases, at minimum, it is going to be a real challenge going forward,” Roe said. “And it is why we say we need to have all parties represented here [at the conference] and in government to make the system more efficient than it is today, and in the process more affordable.”
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:23 am

I'm not concerned that we have a government, I am however concerned who is in the government. And who we have in the government now is usning it to destroy the country.

As for the price of health care premiums if the Obamacare is inforced, that's only going to be one small problem out of a whole lot more to come. 50% to 70% increase in rates, yeah and obviously because 50% to 70% more in health care expenses will go to the sponges who don't even pay into the system and perhaps never in their lives have, in the first place.

Behshad wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:
The roads, bridges, infrastructure and all this that BO mentioned has all been paid for by the hard working tax payers every year, unless BO is saying the government gets it's funding from someone other then the tax payers.
.


and if there were no government to build road, I assure you that a group of private citizens would build the roads and bridges. Guaranteed.


So why do we even need government. Why even vote. Why not just get rid of government, dont pay taxes and just let few people like Donald Trump run this country :lol:


That's the concept in Africa. Yet we see how far that got them.


OK so make up your mind, we need them or we dont need them ?

The bridge and roads and all were paid for and by TAX PAYERS money. but if we dont have government to keep things organized and keep track of taxation system and how its spent and what its spend on, then we will be like Africa. Also, people love to complain and point fingers and find a bad guy to blame their own failures on. Government is bad when people cant do their own job, but of course government is great when they can go there for unemployment, welfare etc.
Even if we managed to have a normal society without government, those who like to bitch and complain would still find something to bitch and complain about.
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Postby Fact Finder » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:35 am

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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:42 am

We bitch now about how much we pay in taxes, just wait for when the government tells us how much we have to pay in healthcare and hold us to it. It will be like having two tax deadlines a year instead of just one on April 15th.

The government tells us how much to pay, how much benefit we get in return, and who will get the most benefits. Go to any fast food restaurant and look at the 350+ lbs person who's spending welfare money on the meal. That's who's going to benefit the most from Obamacare.
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Postby Monker » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:08 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:We bitch now about how much we pay in taxes, just wait for when the government tells us how much we have to pay in healthcare and hold us to it. It will be like having two tax deadlines a year instead of just one on April 15th.

The government tells us how much to pay, how much benefit we get in return, and who will get the most benefits. Go to any fast food restaurant and look at the 350+ lbs person who's spending welfare money on the meal. That's who's going to benefit the most from Obamacare.


I'm glad I don't live in the fantasy world some of you people do.

Reality isn't perfect, but it's not what you just wrote.
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