Forty Trips DVD Editing

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Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:21 am

I don't have the DVD yet. I was waiting for the lawsuit to resolve, plus I already blew money on tickets and the boxset. That said, I have seen a few videos from the release. Anyone notice that in "Alone", Steve P goes from long sleeves to short sleeves? Editor should be fired. Luke previously mentioned "cheated visual shots" in this post. Anyone catch anything else?

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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Ehwmatt » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:13 am

I didn't notice that, but all in all, I was very happy with the finished product. It looks and sounds fantastic on my OLED TV. You should definitely snag a copy, TNC. You'll like it.

If there are some dorks out there acting like it's some cobbled together product with poor editing, overdubs, or whatever, fear not. This is not the FIB Live DVD -- far from it. That was a total fiasco. 40 Trips is one of the best concert discs I've seen/heard in a long time.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby RonaldDupris » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:42 am

How can a lawsuit kill the band and stop them from performing? Just sounds like Luke is pissed off and letting out steam.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Sundet » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:32 pm

RonaldDupris wrote:How can a lawsuit kill the band and stop them from performing? Just sounds like Luke is pissed off and letting out steam.


I guess Jeff Porcaro, as founder and corporate member of the band, co-owned the Toto name and brand, the co-ownership of which was transferred to his heirs (i.e. his wife) upon his death. This is plain guesswork, but technically I suppose this entitles Susan Porcaro, under given circumstances (should as a lawsuit over royalties), to file for a cease & desist order against the band using the name 'Toto' as such, as this generates contested income. I guess the band could still tour as 'David Paich's Toto' or something like that (cf. the two current incarnations of Yes), but with Paich currently out of the touring loop I wouldn't think this is a viable option. This being said, I have absolutely no idea of how ownership of the band name and brand is distributed, but I think it would have made sense for Paich and Jeff Porcaro to own the band name, and for the others to be corporate members (currently Lukather, Steve Porcaro and Williams). In any event, the legal battles into which the band appear to be continuously drawn are very unfortunate indeed.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:00 pm

Ehwmatt wrote:I didn't notice that, but all in all, I was very happy with the finished product. It looks and sounds fantastic on my OLED TV. You should definitely snag a copy, TNC. You'll like it.

If there are some dorks out there acting like it's some cobbled together product with poor editing, overdubs, or whatever, fear not. This is not the FIB Live DVD -- far from it. That was a total fiasco. 40 Trips is one of the best concert discs I've seen/heard in a long time.


Thanks Matt. Will prolly get CD version for the car.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby RonaldDupris » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:57 am

Sundet wrote:
RonaldDupris wrote:How can a lawsuit kill the band and stop them from performing? Just sounds like Luke is pissed off and letting out steam.


I guess Jeff Porcaro, as founder and corporate member of the band, co-owned the Toto name and brand, the co-ownership of which was transferred to his heirs (i.e. his wife) upon his death. This is plain guesswork, but technically I suppose this entitles Susan Porcaro, under given circumstances (should as a lawsuit over royalties), to file for a cease & desist order against the band using the name 'Toto' as such, as this generates contested income. I guess the band could still tour as 'David Paich's Toto' or something like that (cf. the two current incarnations of Yes), but with Paich currently out of the touring loop I wouldn't think this is a viable option. This being said, I have absolutely no idea of how ownership of the band name and brand is distributed, but I think it would have made sense for Paich and Jeff Porcaro to own the band name, and for the others to be corporate members (currently Lukather, Steve Porcaro and Williams). In any event, the legal battles into which the band appear to be continuously drawn are very unfortunate indeed.


I feel like there's a huge part of this story that hasn't been posted here on this forum. Where did all of this bad blood come from between Susan Porcaro and the band? Luke and Paich obviously loved Jeff like a brother, they wouldn't fuck over his family like that. This whole situation honestly makes no sense.

Makes you wonder if Paich not performing has something to do with the lawsuit. He left right after the lawsuit was filed.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Andrew » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:24 pm

RonaldDupris wrote:How can a lawsuit kill the band and stop them from performing? Just sounds like Luke is pissed off and letting out steam.


Know the facts before blowing your trumpet.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Andrew » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:25 pm

Of course the full ugly ass story hasn’t been told. I hope it will be eventually.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby RonaldDupris » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:37 am

Hey I'm on Toto's side 100%. I hope they can overcome whatever bullshit is being thrown their way.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby RumTumJM » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:17 am

Funny you bring this up.

I just recently got my version of the Blu-Ray from Amazon (living in America) & thought some stuff was funky too.

First of all, I swear that for some of the songs the mouths/motions didn't sync up properly. Also, for some of the songs, notably Goodbye Girl, the mixing seemed off. (I could barely here Luke's guitar!)

I admit that I wasn't playing it through a, elaborate sound system, but it still seemed out of whack.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby WalrusOct9 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:23 pm

Andrew wrote:
RonaldDupris wrote:Know the facts before blowing your trumpet.


We'd love to. Please share when you can.


Here's the thing: this kind of stuff happens all the time. It's why I had to buy tickets for "Jeff Lynne's ELO" instead of the original name. But meanwhile you can go see the legal "Guess Who" with one non-writing, non-singing member and a bunch of ringers.

But...can you do this literally 27 years after the fact? If there's a lawsuit, it'd probably more likely to be between Bobby and the actual band, not Jeff's estate. Obviously I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt there'd be much of a case after letting the band continue for 25-plus years post-Jeff.

I hope the band isn't done for good, but they've been on a pretty wild ride the last 4 years, first with the XIV tours then the 40th anniversary stuff back to back. With Dave still somehow out of the touring picture, they're going to take a breather after this last 2019 leg and hopefully plot a way forward after some recouping time.

I hate to say they're doing it for the money, but nothing Luke or Joe do is gonna make as much in a year doing anything as they would from doing 30-40 Toto shows..I don't know about Steve P or Dave. (let's assume Luke's Ringo gig isn't going to go on forever, even though it feels like it at this point) So I could see them taking 2020 off, and regrouping in another year to play some shows, for fun, but also to make a few bucks, hopefully with a healthy Dave. I don't know about Joe's voice, but Luke, Dave, and Steve P can all still play, and the supporting cast is among the best they've ever had, so...I wouldn't count them out completely, but I'd definitely count on an extended break after this fall.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Sundet » Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:17 am

WalrusOct9 wrote:
But...can you do this literally 27 years after the fact? If there's a lawsuit, it'd probably more likely to be between Bobby and the actual band, not Jeff's estate. Obviously I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt there'd be much of a case after letting the band continue for 25-plus years post-Jeff.


Of course you can, as long as you own the brand. Unless his will stated otherwise I'm pretty sure that, upon his death, all of Jeff's business matters relating to Toto, likely including rights to the name, royalties, publishing and whatnot, fell to his estate. My guess is that this has worked fairly well up until recently. Apparently the lawsuit filed by Susan Porcaro Goings relates to the distribution of publishing income from Africa. Under most circumstances this is a management issue, and it may well be, for it seems that the lawsuit coincided with Steve Lukather taking up management duties for the band (hence, the lawsuit was filed against Lukather and Paich). So Susan Porcaro Goings might have an issue with current management arrangements too. The less than flattering remarks made about her in Lukather's book certainly suggest that relations aren't exactly cordial and with whatever is going on I guess that these remarks haven't much helped bring about an amicable settlement. In any event, as the head of Jeff's estate and as such, I suppose, co-owner of the Toto brand, there is a chance that Susan Porcaro Goings may have a case for a cease & desist order, unless the band start billing themselves as David Paich's Toto (supposing that ownership of the Toto brand was shared by David and Jeff). But with David Paich out of the touring carousel such a billing probably won't make much sense (and, frankly, look rather weird in any case).

Note that the above is pure guesswork and speculation. Only those involved know the details and, frankly, it's literally none of our business.

WalrusOct9 wrote:
I hate to say they're doing it for the money, but nothing Luke or Joe do is gonna make as much in a year doing anything as they would from doing 30-40 Toto shows..I don't know about Steve P or Dave. (let's assume Luke's Ringo gig isn't going to go on forever, even though it feels like it at this point)


I'm not sure any of the band really need the Toto money, although their personal finances are absolutely not any of ours, nor really anyone's, business. But you've got to remember that Joe's father is none other than John Williams. As for David Paich, Lukather has often joked that he drives around in Calabasas in his golden golf cart to collect his Africa publishing checks. Steve Porcaro wrote Human Nature but he has alluded to having sold the publishing rights for that song.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby WalrusOct9 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:03 am

Sundet wrote:
WalrusOct9 wrote:
But...can you do this literally 27 years after the fact? If there's a lawsuit, it'd probably more likely to be between Bobby and the actual band, not Jeff's estate. Obviously I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt there'd be much of a case after letting the band continue for 25-plus years post-Jeff.


Of course you can, as long as you own the brand. Unless his will stated otherwise I'm pretty sure that, upon his death, all of Jeff's business matters relating to Toto, likely including rights to the name, royalties, publishing and whatnot, fell to his estate. My guess is that this has worked fairly well up until recently. Apparently the lawsuit filed by Susan Porcaro Goings relates to the distribution of publishing income from Africa. Under most circumstances this is a management issue, and it may well be, for it seems that the lawsuit coincided with Steve Lukather taking up management duties for the band (hence, the lawsuit was filed against Lukather and Paich). So Susan Porcaro Goings might have an issue with current management arrangements too. The less than flattering remarks made about her in Lukather's book certainly suggest that relations aren't exactly cordial and with whatever is going on I guess that these remarks haven't much helped bring about an amicable settlement. In any event, as the head of Jeff's estate and as such, I suppose, co-owner of the Toto brand, there is a chance that Susan Porcaro Goings may have a case for a cease & desist order, unless the band start billing themselves as David Paich's Toto (supposing that ownership of the Toto brand was shared by David and Jeff). But with David Paich out of the touring carousel such a billing probably won't make much sense (and, frankly, look rather weird in any case).

Note that the above is pure guesswork and speculation. Only those involved know the details and, frankly, it's literally none of our business.

WalrusOct9 wrote:
I hate to say they're doing it for the money, but nothing Luke or Joe do is gonna make as much in a year doing anything as they would from doing 30-40 Toto shows..I don't know about Steve P or Dave. (let's assume Luke's Ringo gig isn't going to go on forever, even though it feels like it at this point)


I'm not sure any of the band really need the Toto money, although their personal finances are absolutely not any of ours, nor really anyone's, business. But you've got to remember that Joe's father is none other than John Williams. As for David Paich, Lukather has often joked that he drives around in Calabasas in his golden golf cart to collect his Africa publishing checks. Steve Porcaro wrote Human Nature but he has alluded to having sold the publishing rights for that song.



I just think a judge's first question would be "Why are you doing this now, and not 20-25 years ago?" Also, Jeff was a partner in whatever TotoCorp, LLC was called, but he did not "own the brand" outright. Forgetting for a moment David P's absence from gigs, Dave and Luke also "own the brand." (I don't know Steve P or Joe's situations here, but I also doubt they're just 'employees' like a Tommy Thayer situation) Of course there's been a ton of these sort of lawsuits over the years, but I can't think of one where the relatives of a dead band member sue the living band members for continuing to use their name, when those living band members are a) multiple in number and b) primary songwriters/singers of that band's music.

You're probably closer in suggesting it has something to do with "Africa," which of course is suddenly making a ton of increased revenue 35 years after the fact, and subsequently, so is the band. I wonder if the Porcaro estate is trying to get a bigger piece of that pie on the iffy legal basis of arguing that revenue is due to a Jeff co-write. Given the terrible circumstances of 1992, it's possible however the administrative aspects of the situation weren't handled well from a legal perspective, and everything was fine until the band started making more money the last couple years?

But again, it just seems so strange to me that there'd be issues over the band name now, and not 27 years ago when the band continued on post-Jeff.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Sundet » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:02 am

I'm not suggesting by any means that the question of the band name lies at the heart of this matter, but it may well be a rather powerful stick with which Susan Porcaro Goings might be able to beat the band. I don't see any reason why the ownership of the brand would not have passed to Jeff's estate upon his death, unless of course someone bailed the estate out (which was probably the last thing on anyone's mind at that awful time). And if this is how things stand, Susan Porcaro Goings may well reply to a judge's question of 'why now?' that it is only now that conflicts over Africa royalties (to which Jeff's estate is certainly entitled) have arisen, adding a little bit of drama about Jeff's legacy and whatnot. The original lawsuit was filed over Africa royalties: We know as much from press reports, but whether the band name/brand is in fact a matter of contention I have no idea. But I can't imagine what else may have brought Lukather to state something to effect of that 'lawsuits may finally have killed us".
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby WalrusOct9 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:04 pm

Band names are typically owned/controlled by a joint LLC type situation. In a few cases, this has reverted to one person as members left (Guns N' Roses is the most obvious example), but typically for classic rock bands it's jointly held by at least two members. (Trust me, as much as Neil Schon would love it, he does not control/own the name 'Journey' outright, and can't do squat with it without the approval of at least Cain, if not Cain and Valory).

My speculation is that, obviously Jeff's share of TotoCorp (i just think it's fun to call it that) as a decision maker presumably was eliminated, but a chunk of their revenue went to Jeff's estate or the trust fund for his kids, or something like that, kinda similar to the arrangement Journey has with Steve Perry.

The thing with "Africa" royalties is...wouldn't that be a Sony issue, not necessarily a Luke/Paich/band issue? Unless the family is just looking to go after someone for money, and this is easier than trying to get Sony's attention.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Sundet » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:27 am

I have no idea how ownership of the Toto name is arranged. The only mention of this matter I have ever seen Lukather's statement in his autobiography that none of the 2007-8 version of the band owned the name, his own departure from the band in 2008 thus effectively ending Toto. Whether this implies that Lukather has a share in the rights to the band name I don't know. The question, anyway, is what happened to Jeff's share of TotoCorp (I dig the name) upon his death. To put another spin on it: If a co-owner of, say, the Coca Cola brand suddenly passed away, I am pretty sure that his or her share would not revert to the other co-owners just like that, at least not without a major legal battle.

As for Africa royalties, I'm pretty sure this has little or nothing to do with Sony but rather with publishing companies. As far as I know Jeff owned his own publishing, but a publishing company, be it owned by a musician or an estate, still has to chase money to get paid what is due. I guess this is where things somehow went wrong with Susan Porcaro Goings and Toto, at least if her demands for the band's full accounts are anything to go by.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby RonaldDupris » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:36 am

Now here's a thought, does anyone think Paich's absence from the band is connected to the ongoing lawsuits? Susan's lawsuit and David's leave did occur very close to one another. I'm not saying that's the case but it is interesting that with everything going on within Toto right now, Dave is MIA. Even on social media, he's been totally silent.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Sundet » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:33 pm

I very strongly doubt Paich's leave of absence has got anything to do with the lawsuit.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Sep 16, 2019 12:41 am

Steve P also goes from long sleeve jacket to short sleeve vest to long sleeves in Rosanna too. Wow. The buck stops with the band and management, but heads should roll. You can't use b-roll footage for touch ups if Steve P is wearing a completely different jacket. The band is better than this. Damn.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Sundet » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:22 pm

The DVD sounds great in my opinion. To be honest, I couldn't care less if Steve P alternated between long sleeves, short sleeves and nudity as long as it sounds as good as this.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:01 am

Sundet wrote:The DVD sounds great in my opinion. To be honest, I couldn't care less if Steve P alternated between long sleeves, short sleeves and nudity as long as it sounds as good as this.


Steve P didn't alternate his wardrobe in-between solos. The editors fucked up. And you're right, it does sound great. That's why I ordered the CD only version. Somebody dropped the ball big time here.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby RonaldDupris » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:53 am

Why exactly was other footage spliced in anyways? How does that cover up mistakes especially when the audio was fine? I'm honestly confused by that. If Joe made a flub during a song, they would simply have him do a re-do in post and splice the audio in. What mistakes were made during the concert that caused them to take video footage from another show in edit it in?
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Andrew » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:07 pm

RonaldDupris wrote:Now here's a thought, does anyone think Paich's absence from the band is connected to the ongoing lawsuits? Susan's lawsuit and David's leave did occur very close to one another. I'm not saying that's the case but it is interesting that with everything going on within Toto right now, Dave is MIA. Even on social media, he's been totally silent.


No. Nothing at all.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Sundet » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:54 pm

Very interesting interview with Lukather, who pretty much alludes to the band coming to an end next month:

http://www.azculture.com/interview-with-steve-lukather-vocalist-and-guitarist-of-toto/?fbclid=IwAR1E4iVhzyotjm7N2JOk2w0DW4_t2O2ixRkdyTO5RPakylaZ-e1ntABVk-g
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:45 am

Sundet wrote:Very interesting interview with Lukather, who pretty much alludes to the band coming to an end next month:

http://www.azculture.com/interview-with-steve-lukather-vocalist-and-guitarist-of-toto/?fbclid=IwAR1E4iVhzyotjm7N2JOk2w0DW4_t2O2ixRkdyTO5RPakylaZ-e1ntABVk-g



Thanks for posting. Luke has made similar comments in other recent interviews. I assume the billionaire woman is Jeff's wife? Pretty crazy. The guys finally built the band up again in the US only to have some spiteful wench tear it all down? Crazy.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby WalrusOct9 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:00 am

Glad they're doing a show here then. I used to have to fly to other states to see them, and they've played three shows in Nashville in 4 years now. It's nuts. (although I wish Dave was coming back to do these final dates :( )

I found the court documents here: https://unicourt.com/case/ca-la23-susan-porcaro-goings-vs-steven-l-lukather-et-al-191442

Not sure what "request for dismissal" means in this sense...if she's withdrawing the lawsuit for an out-of-court settlment or what?

Kind of makes sense they're folding Toto for the time being though, now that I've actually seen confirmation of what the legal issues are. If Luke is the acting manager of the band, it's probably better that they stop making money until this is resolved. So dumb. :(
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Sundet » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:24 am

How utterly sad this whole debacle is, no matter what the cause.

I'd say this current decade is the best and most consistent the band has ever had, with the band topping themselves time and time again, it being on stage (as documented on two live releases), in the studio (XIV, anyone?) and even in bringing out treasures from the archives coupled with great new material (Old is New). It is further credit to the band that all this has been achieved in spite of seemingly perpetual litigation issues (record company, management and now this recent incident).

I became a Toto fan in 1993, during one of the band's low-ebbs. I then spent the next 15 years wishing I was a Toto fan in the eighties, even though I thoroughly dug Tambu and FiB. But I will bloody well spend the rest of my life lovingly remembering the fact that I was a Toto fan in the 2010s.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby RonaldDupris » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:29 am

I still don't really get how Susan Porcaro can stop Toto from being a thing? Is it a case of, she co-owns the rights to the band (along with Dave)?
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby Sundet » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:02 pm

RonaldDupris wrote:Is it a case of, she co-owns the rights to the band (along with Dave)?


It is either that (and I find it rather likely) or a case of a court ruling granting her an outrageous financial claim that does not make the band financially viable anymore.
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Re: Forty Trips DVD Editing

Postby WalrusOct9 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:45 am

It's not unreasonable that Susan owns part of the band. They had three very young kids, and keeping Jeff's interest in the band going presumably supported them. A lot of bands wouldn't have done this, but I think to Luke and Paich, Jeff was Toto in a spiritual sense, so they supported their brother by supporting his family.

I wonder if the mistake was not placing some kind of statute of limitations on this (like when his youngest child turned 21 or 25 or something). Or if they did, and Susan's mad about the money drying up? Who knows. Unfortunately we aren't privy (yet) to the details of the original 1992 agreement, but man, it's sad to see a band decide to stop playing (even temporarily) over issues that have nothing to do with music.
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