Is This Love Video

by **Slander** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:38 am

Hey Guys,

Sorry is this is a re-post. The "Is This Love" video is now on youtube. Here' you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URR5U-97tCo

by **Eyeof** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:41 am

How many agree this might be Survivor at its worst?

by **Slander** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:10 am

Eyeof wrote:How many agree this might be Survivor at its worst?

I agree Eye. I have long been on record as saying that many of my friends who I converted to Survivor fans right after VS were driven away by When Seconds Count. I went to see the band in Spokane, WA back in 1986 during the WSC tour and a majority of the crowd appeared to be young teenage girls. The band indeed had lost their edge and tough image. I may be in the minority but I thought the band went in the wrong direction here. They were coming off "Burning Heart." That was a number 2 record on Billboard! I saw no reason for them to go soft. Having said that there are some solid songs on WSC.

by **IngoK** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:38 am

Eyeof wrote:How many agree this might be Survivor at its worst?

Have you heard Jim Peteriks acoustic rendition on Cara's Basement? Not bad, and much better than the original.

by **Slander** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:43 am

IngoK wrote:
Eyeof wrote:How many agree this might be Survivor at its worst?

Have you heard Jim Peteriks acoustic rendition on Cara's Basement? Not bad, and much better than the original.

I liked it very much.

by **Franky** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:33 am

This one is better than most of all AOR-BAnd singles the years there after ... Sure its more soft than other ones before but,... still it has great songwriting, great harmonies and of course Jims unbelievebale voice !

by **Slander** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:25 am

Franky wrote:. still it has great songwriting, great harmonies and of course Jims unbelievebale voice !

I don't think anyone of us dispute that "Is This Love" includes all the elements you have mentioned. For me it was about imaging. Guys hated this song; Soccer moms driving mini-vans dug it.

by **Ehwmatt** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:38 pm

Is This Love is a great song, coming from a fan of all eras of Survivor minus the McCauley era (nothing to base any opinion on). JP's acoustic rendition was classic too - I'd love to have a formal recording of that.

by **Anders** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:58 pm

Eyeof wrote:How many agree this might be Survivor at its worst?

*raises hand*

And the worst part of it all is that some of my friends really liked it, but not the rest of the album. (Or any other Survivor songs for that matter)

by **Slander** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:10 am

Ehwmatt wrote:Is This Love is a great song, coming from a fan of all eras of Survivor minus the McCauley era (nothing to base any opinion on). JP's acoustic rendition was classic too - I'd love to have a formal recording of that.

I don't think anyone questions wether or not "Is This Love" is a quality song. It's a top ten single. That being said it doesn't mean the song was good for the band. The song represents a morphing of the band from a tough gritty street image into GLASS TIGER! I have said it before: My male friends all tuned Survivor out after this effort. The same thing happened to Forgeigner. "I Want To Know What Love Is" is a great song. And I do mean GREAT! It came at a cost. Many of their hardcore rock fans were completely alienated by this effort.

by **jrnyman28** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:43 am

Slander wrote:I don't think anyone questions wether or not "Is This Love" is a quality song. It's a top ten single.

Just for sport let me remind everyone that Top 10 does mean quality. But that does not mean I am dissing the song either.

Slander wrote:That being said it doesn't mean the song was good for the band. The song represents a morphing of the band from a tough gritty street image into GLASS TIGER!

Was this the turning point?

Slander wrote:The same thing happened to Forgeigner. "I Want To Know What Love Is" is a great song. And I do mean GREAT! It came at a cost. Many of their hardcore rock fans were completely alienated by this effort.

Isn't it funny that "Waiting For A Girl Like You" didn't do it, the audience can apparantly accept ONE song like that but not the 2nd. And for the record, YEP! Foreigner pretty much lost me after IWTKWLI, too.

by **Eyeof** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:34 pm

I do feel like that was the big turning point...

I'm a big fan...as we all know, but I can remember buying the WSC album, listening to it at first and being kind of like eeeee...

I can remember wishing it had more rock to it like Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet, which i had bought at the same time...(and i know there is sap in that album as well, but there is Rock as well)...

At the same time it sure was nice hearing my band (Survivor) on the radio and "Is this Love" did that...but maybe that wasn't a good thing...

at any rate...four years had brought quite a departure from Caught In the Game...

by **Eyeof** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:48 pm

But I do want to point out, that there are some really good tunes on WSC...I love Back Street Love Affair for example...

Also, IGF is a great song..(I know Red..it's sappy), and as was pointed out, the music land scape changed a lot from '82 until t '86...but for me, never in a good way...

I think we lose the point on this, it's not that the album had ballads...you could make WSC and not change a song and make it more gritty etc...I think the change was in production and how the music was brought across...

by **Red13JoePa** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:08 am

Slander wrote: Forgeigner. "I Want To Know What Love Is" is a great song. And I do mean GREAT! It came at a cost. Many of their hardcore rock fans were completely alienated by this effort.

And Gramm in particular HATED that that happened.

And aside from In Good Faith and Is This Love? (which still has good rock guitars) WSC still rocks pretty hard with some awesome material.

Back Streel Love Affair, as EyeOf said, among the rest.
And Oceans and Can't Let You Go are flat out studs.

by **Slander** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:03 am

Red13JoePa wrote:
Slander wrote: Forgeigner. "I Want To Know What Love Is" is a great song. And I do mean GREAT! It came at a cost. Many of their hardcore rock fans were completely alienated by this effort.

And Gramm in particular HATED that that happened.

And aside from In Good Faith and Is This Love? (which still has good rock guitars) WSC still rocks pretty hard with some awesome material.

Back Streel Love Affair, as EyeOf said, among the rest.
And Oceans and Can't Let You Go are flat out studs.

Oceans is one of my favorite Survivor songs. It absolutely smokes! Red I think I'm talking more imaging here. Am I wrong to think the band started looking more like Glass Tiger instead of the street walking gang they intended to be? Like I said my guy friends left the band when they released this song.

by **Slander** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:06 am

Eyeof wrote:I do feel like that was the big turning point...

I'm a big fan...as we all know, but I can remember buying the WSC album, listening to it at first and being kind of like eeeee...

Eye that was my reaction at well. "Is This Love" is a great tune for an adult contemporary station! It's music for soccer moms not rockers. As far as I'm concerned there isn't a single track on WSC that screams rock. I love Oceans and that's really only for the guitar riff in the beginning. This album was a mistake. By Too Hot Too Sleep the band lost it's rock credentials. Just my opinion.

by **bulldog** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:08 am

I am sure the band didn't care as long they were hot and on the radio.. Figure they struggled for years until Rocky 3 came out and hit a splash with Eye Of The Tiger .
All of a sudden boom... I Can't Hold Back , High On You , The Search Is Over , Burning Heart & Is This Love cranked the top 10. The videos and tv shows .They made a lot of money and were on some big tours back then .. I am very sure they missed being on the radio. Too Hot To Sleep is a awesome cd but it never caught on .
I love Man Against The World , How Much Love , & In Good Faith too.. I think Jimi was unmatched during these years as far as his vocals.
I prefer the pop hit machine .. I can't believe how great Jimi sounds now.
They didn't have cross -over songs like Eddie Money .. Eddie was all over classic rock and pop radio. They were pop , and the songs are still on the radio today..

by **Slander** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:16 am

bulldog wrote::D I am sure the band didn't care as long they were hot and on the radio.. Figure they struggled for years until Rocky 3 came out and hit a splash with Eye Of The Tiger .
All of a sudden boom... I Can't Hold Back , High On You , The Search Is Over , Burning Heart & Is This Love cranked the top 10. The videos and tv shows .They made a lot of money and were on some big tours back then .. I am very sure they missed being on the radio. Too Hot To Sleep is a awesome cd but it never caught on .
I love Man Against The World , How Much Love , & In Good Faith too.. I think Jimi was unmatched during these years as far as his vocals.
I prefer the pop hit machine .. I can't believe how great Jimi sounds now.
They didn't have cross -over songs like Eddie Money .. Eddie was all over classic rock and pop radio. They were pop , and the songs are still on the radio today..

Hey Bulldog,

I agree with much of what you say. I however think there is something about Is This Love that cost Survivor in the long run.

by **Eyeof** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:43 pm

Well, part of it is the choice of single releases from the album...

Is This Love is pure pop and and How Much Love (which got a lot of national airplay) is a pure pop as well...And say what you but Slander is right, you can't argue, yes, that got them air play...but at what cost...it was their last original song airplay...

But we deviate from our point...yes, it got them played...made them money, but for me it was the end of the 'real' Survivor that I feel in love with...

Let's be honest, if WSC was their first album....who would be in this forum today?

The stuff got played, but it was a dime a dozen back then. That is an era where Debbi Gibson and Tiffany dominated the air waves....

by **Red13JoePa** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:54 pm

Eyeof wrote: Is This Love is pure pop and and How Much Love (which got a lot of national airplay) is a pure pop as well...

Oh, How Much Love? is BRUTAL. That took the pop within a rock framework formula that High On You started and Is This Love? took downhill to the bottom of the pit.

The only reason I can listen to either ITL or HML is the guitars.

by **Slander** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:09 am

Eyeof wrote:Let's be honest, if WSC was their first album....who would be in this forum today?

The stuff got played, but it was a dime a dozen back then. That is an era where Debbi Gibson and Tiffany dominated the air waves....

Thanks for making my point Eye. It was music for soccer moms. Survivor forgot its roots on this album. Even VS had elements of the bands origins. I can't find it in WSC. You are right if WSC was there first album they would have been the equivialent of bands like Glass Tiger, Animotion, Ta Pau, Sheriff, etc. Survivor will always be about leather jackets not guys wearing white linen jackets. Does that make sense? Yes WSC included a top ten hit but at what expense? After Burning Heart reached number 2, the band had a license to rock harder. They had momentum. Is This Love was a bad decision.

by **Joe Vana** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:28 am

Red13JoePa wrote:
Eyeof wrote: Is This Love is pure pop and and How Much Love (which got a lot of national airplay) is a pure pop as well...

Oh, How Much Love? is BRUTAL. That took the pop within a rock framework formula that High On You started and Is This Love? took downhill to the bottom of the pit.

The only reason I can listen to either ITL or HML is the guitars.

I actually rate WSC as my top Survivor album...as hard as that may be to believe......then CITG, and THTS.....WSC for my tastes had by far my favorite guitar tone and playing by Frankie.....I listen for inner parts, the parts nobody notices, the arpeggiated stuff in the verses with vibrato...it's the stuff that makes Survivor sound different than everybody else...it's the magic sauce....I love the keyboard work by Peter Wolf throughout each song, but the subtle guitars in the verses (he does this on all the Survivor albums) is more a big part of the sound than other albums....PLUS, this is by far........by far, technically speaking, the finest hour for Jamo....he was absolutely jaw dropping on every tune....his legend for me started with this album....I first heard it at JP's house on acetate months before the release, and I was floored....and I remember seeing the cover art in photo negative form and thought it was cool as shit....

You may think it's pop (it was), you may think it's a bit light (it was) but it was masterfully produced and had elements of all the old albums, but with more sheen.....

IMHO......

JV

by **Red13JoePa** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:35 am

Joe Vana wrote:I actually rate WSC as my top Survivor album...as hard as that may be to believe......

Not hard for me to buy.
I think it's extremely listenable still and very "Survivor." Takes a lot of heat for ISL (and HML) making it too poppy but I see it as no more poppy than VS. There are 8 other songs, and hell, BackStreet Love Affair Rebel Son, Oceans and Can't Let You Go alone make it pretty damn Survivoresque.

by **Eyeof** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:40 am

to be honest i can remember looking at the back cover art on wsc and even THTS and thinking...oh my...what happened...

to me the back cover pic from EOTT, with Dave in the beret....that will always be Survivor...

by **Slander** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:44 am

[quote="Joe Vana"I actually rate WSC as my top Survivor album...IMHO......

JV[/quote]

Hey JV,

My complaint about WSC is more an imaging problem than anything else. Keep in mind I'm being very superficial here. I think there was a way to make this album without the band losing its grittiness.

by **Slander** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:47 am

Eyeof wrote:to be honest i can remember looking at the back cover art on wsc and even THTS and thinking...oh my...what happened...

to me the back cover pic from EOTT, with Dave in the beret....that will always be Survivor...

Absolutely. I thought they had the license to keep that image after rocking hard on Burning Heart! That went to number 2 on Billboard. If I had been managing them I would have wanted a real rocker released as the first single off of WSC. I then would have followed it up with In Good Faith. I would have also taken the guys out of their linen suits! I would have thrown them back in their leather jackets and jeans. This was true Survivor. Am I wrong here?

by **Eyeof** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:03 am

okay JV...you have forced me to take a look at the album again...

let's all look at it song-by-song....and I will say this, while it lost the greit i liked the listen of the album, and i still can enjoy it today...especially at night to go to sleep to....

1. How Much Love - Not a bad pop song, but not a good Survivor song (IMO of course). It think it is one of their weakest and their weakest single release...

2. Keep It Right Here - Poppy yes, but I like the tune. With a little more grit, would have reminded me of CITG album. But again, just a little too pop....but, in defense guys, this is 1986 and pop is king.

3. Is This Love - We've discussed to death. To me this one never really flowed that well, especially the "I need to know that there someone who care, will you be the ..." part....

4. Man Against the World - Great tune...Classic Survivor...good words...good hook...i don't care if it's a ballad...this should have been a single release...this should have been a hit.

5. Rebel Son - Again, with a little more grit this could have really rocked...as it was, still a great Survivor song.

6. Oceans - Solid song here...This was - to me - Survivor at it's best in this era...it's pop, but damn good pop.

7. When Seconds Count - Good tune.

8. Backstreet Love Affair - The most grit on this record...more of the Survivor sound...

9. In Good Faith - Red, if you are gonna be sappy, be damn good at it. This song is a classic. The words have a meaning most can relate the the slow guitar at the start...this is classic as well.

10. Can't Let You Go - Great tune...love the opening...'Two eyes that haunt me..." I think the writing (word wise) of Survivor may have peaked at this time. - This song was a roker that could have went on any Survivor album.

by **Red13JoePa** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:07 am

Eyeof wrote:Can't Let You Go - Great tune...love the opening...'Two eyes that haunt me..." I think the writing (word wise) of Survivor may have peaked at this time. -

...yep, yep... "Two lips that taunt me from the darkness each night" fukin song from lyrics, to arrangement, to instrumentation (Peterik's main key riff is sick, sullivan's heavy blues/rock lead), just incredible.

MR

Is This Love Video

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