Revisiting When Seconds Count

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Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Slander » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:42 am

WSC was always my least favorite Survivor album. I always felt the band lost its way and with it a lot of fans it gained thanks to VS. Many of the friends I converted, hated the heavy emphasis on synth. It was way to heavy and sappy. Having said that I've given it another chance after all these years. I'm pleasantly surprised. Jimi gives powerhouse vocals throughout. Frankie's guitar work is stellar. By the way, how good is Oceans? Amazing track. Looking back, I think the band made a HUGE mistake in not releasing In Good Faith as the second single. It was a terrific power ballad that was ignored. It's a much stronger song than Man Against The World in my opinion. Solid Survivor outing. Only a little filler. Backstreet Love Affair, ugh! Thoughts?
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby TageRyche » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:41 am

I've always been a big fan of the album. It was the tour for this one that I saw Survivor in concert for the first and only time. Got to high five Jimi Jamison during the "Eye Of The Tiger" encore.

I have never taken any kind of review look back at the album but I might add When Seconds Count to the list of possible albums to cover in my Cassette Chronicles series.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Journey/Survivor » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:41 pm

Slander wrote:WSC was always my least favorite Survivor album. I always felt the band lost its way and with it a lot of fans it gained thanks to VS. Many of the friends I converted, hated the heavy emphasis on synth. It was way to heavy and sappy. Having said that I've given it another chance after all these years. I'm pleasantly surprised. Jimi gives powerhouse vocals throughout. Frankie's guitar work is stellar. By the way, how good is Oceans? Amazing track. Looking back, I think the band made a HUGE mistake in not releasing In Good Faith as the second single. It was a terrific power ballad that was ignored. It's a much stronger song than Man Against The World in my opinion. Solid Survivor outing. Only a little filler. Backstreet Love Affair, ugh! Thoughts?


I would say that the WSC album probably ranks around fifth or sixth on my list of Survivor albums. I would rank THTS, CITG, EOTT and VS ahead of WSC.

I think that the WSC album was arguably the best singing from start to finish that Jamison ever did on any album.

I wish that Sullivan had played more guitar on WSC, but what he does play is fantastic.

My brother (Who is NOT a big Survivor fan but does like some of their songs) thinks that Back Street Love Affair is the only great song on the WSC album.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Journey/Survivor » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:46 pm

TageRyche wrote:I've always been a big fan of the album. It was the tour for this one that I saw Survivor in concert for the first and only time. Got to high five Jimi Jamison during the "Eye Of The Tiger" encore.

I have never taken any kind of review look back at the album but I might add When Seconds Count to the list of possible albums to cover in my Cassette Chronicles series.


The WSC tour was the first time that I got to see Survivor on tour, also. Fortunately I've gotten to see them around 10 times or so over the years. And I saw Jamison's band that he was calling Survivor around 10 times also. I got to see The Ides Of March once.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Mikele » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:50 pm

To be honest, WSC has always been my least favorite album. I think the songwriting is as good as it could possibly be, but there are other issues on which I base my feelings. I might be biased or whatever, but here's what I think.
First, similar to VS, the song sequence doesn't feel right and fails to put me in the right mood for a Survivor record: "How much love" really puts me down and I still can't get over it! Peterik himself, in his book, felt that the song was not really a spontanous effort, so to speak. Second, Jimi voice is great but, in my humble opinion, goes through the motions on many songs. He is soooo much better in the following THTS and then on Empires, where he can also express some other nuances he's known for. Could be the production?
Hey we are still talking about a record from the "masters", so in the end is still a great effort. Oh, I too like Backstreet!

BTW, our hero just today published a very cool cassette tape that might change forever my opinion ( with unreleased tracks!!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFolEClczis
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Slander » Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:19 am

BTW, our hero just today published a very cool cassette tape that might change forever my opinion ( with unreleased tracks!!):


Now I'm convinced this is Frankie releasing this stuff to YouTube. By the way, my posting on WSC revisited was just a coincidence. Stallone is releasing a recut of Rocky 4 in November, and it got me thinking about Burning Heart and Man Against the World.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby kgdjpubs » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:37 am

Mikele wrote:To be honest, WSC has always been my least favorite album. I think the songwriting is as good as it could possibly be, but there are other issues on which I base my feelings. I might be biased or whatever, but here's what I think.
First, similar to VS, the song sequence doesn't feel right and fails to put me in the right mood for a Survivor record: "How much love" really puts me down and I still can't get over it! Peterik himself, in his book, felt that the song was not really a spontanous effort, so to speak. Second, Jimi voice is great but, in my humble opinion, goes through the motions on many songs. He is soooo much better in the following THTS and then on Empires, where he can also express some other nuances he's known for. Could be the production?
Hey we are still talking about a record from the "masters", so in the end is still a great effort. Oh, I too like Backstreet!

BTW, our hero just today published a very cool cassette tape that might change forever my opinion ( with unreleased tracks!!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFolEClczis


I'd love to hear WSC with a different production/mix with the guitars higher in the mix. The Rock Candy remaster was far better as at least the bass was audible. That cassette demos is closer to what I think it should have sounded like. Gives a bit of the rock edge back.

It is a somewhat oddly structured album with the pop stuff on side A and the rock material on side B.

I always thought it was a very classy album and some of their best songwriting and lyrics. It does stand out a bit compared to the normal Survivor sound though.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Journey/Survivor » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:40 am

Mikele wrote:BTW, our hero just today published a very cool cassette tape that might change forever my opinion ( with unreleased tracks!!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFolEClczis


I hate to be a pain in the ass to you guys! But since my super slow connection will not allow me to get on YouTube, I was wondering if any of you guys can give me an update of all of the unreleased songs/demos of Survivor that have been posted so far on YouTube? I really have only seen a few titles listed by any of you guys, so I don't have a very good idea of what's been posted so far?

If one of you guys would be kind enough to give me a listing I would greatly appreciate it!
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby St.George » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:01 pm

Journey/Survivor wrote:If one of you guys would be kind enough to give me a listing I would greatly appreciate it!


- Live With Me Tonight (Premonition)
- Missing Persons (Premonition)
- Lorelei (She's Arrived) (Premonition)
- Come Inside (WSC)
- I turn to you (WSC)
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Journey/Survivor » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:19 pm

St.George wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:If one of you guys would be kind enough to give me a listing I would greatly appreciate it!


- Live With Me Tonight (Premonition)
- Missing Persons (Premonition)
- Lorelei (She's Arrived) (Premonition)
- Come Inside (WSC)
- I turn to you (WSC)


Thank you, I appreciate it!

I had been under the impression that more unreleased songs had been posted already.


"I Turn To You," I assume that that is the same song as on the Jamison demos bootleg?
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby St.George » Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:35 pm

Journey/Survivor wrote:"I Turn To You," I assume that that is the same song as on the Jamison demos bootleg?



Nope, it's a totally different one. And it's a f*cking hit! Survivor trademark :wink:
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Journey/Survivor » Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:22 am

St.George wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:"I Turn To You," I assume that that is the same song as on the Jamison demos bootleg?



Nope, it's a totally different one. And it's a f*cking hit! Survivor trademark :wink:


Whereas the Jamison song of the same title is a nice song, it doesn't sound musically like a Survivor song. Does the Survivor song ITTY Rock? Or is it a light song?
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby kgdjpubs » Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:25 am

St.George wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:If one of you guys would be kind enough to give me a listing I would greatly appreciate it!


- Live With Me Tonight (Premonition)


Going by the rest of the lyrics in the song, I think the title is probably "Leave with Me Tonight", not "Live...". Especially the line "I will give you one last chance before I leave" in the bridge.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby FalconONE » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:50 am

Hi!
The song title is the good one; "Live With Me Tonight"

https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/se ... /880743053

LIVE WITH ME TONIGHT

ISWC: T9032325841

Work ID: 880743053
Writers

ASCAP controls: 25%

PRO IPI
PETERIK JAMES M ASCAP 581312173
SULLIVAN FRANK EDWARD BMI 232337102
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Journey/Survivor » Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:05 pm

FalconONE wrote:Hi!
The song title is the good one; "Live With Me Tonight"

https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/ace/se ... /880743053

LIVE WITH ME TONIGHT

ISWC: T9032325841

Work ID: 880743053
Writers

ASCAP controls: 25%

PRO IPI
PETERIK JAMES M ASCAP 581312173
SULLIVAN FRANK EDWARD BMI 232337102


In Peterik's book (page 193) he lists the song as "Live With Me Tonight," also.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby DavidWT » Wed Aug 04, 2021 2:04 am

I always liked WSC, but definitely felt that it paled a bit when compared to VS. The opening three tracks were a bit TOO pop for me (and I always found it odd that supposedly Jimi did not want to sing "Talkin' bout Love" on the "Reach" album because it was too pop-like, yet he was okay with singing those opening tracks on WSC. But I guess times and tastes change over the years.) And the middle of album sags for a me a bit with "Backstreet Love Affair" and "Oceans." (I don't really dislike these two, but they just don't do much for me either way.)

On the other hand, when WSC is good, it's REALLY good. Tracks like Rebel Son, When Seconds Count, Man Against The World, Can't Let You Go, etc, are great. Even "In Good Faith" is a really strong ballad.

Incidentally, I've been watching "Dark" on Netflix recently, which involves a lot of time travel, and I just finished watching one of the episodes that takes place in the 1980s. One of the lead characters was listening to "Is This Love."
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby kgdjpubs » Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:49 am

DavidWT wrote:I always liked WSC, but definitely felt that it paled a bit when compared to VS. The opening three tracks were a bit TOO pop for me (and I always found it odd that supposedly Jimi did not want to sing "Talkin' bout Love" on the "Reach" album because it was too pop-like, yet he was okay with singing those opening tracks on WSC.


Been a while since I've seen the interviews, but I was always under the impression that he didn't want to sing Nevertheless.


DavidWT wrote: And the middle of album sags for a me a bit with "Backstreet Love Affair" and "Oceans." (I don't really dislike these two, but they just don't do much for me either way.)


To an extent, I think Backstreet Love Affair got neutered a bit by the production. The demo versions posted above have a lot more intensity and fire to them than the final product.

Oceans always ranked among my favorites off that album, but I guess it would be boring if we all exactly liked the same thing all the time. It would be interesting to hear an earlier pre-production version to see if the intensity on the demos extended to that song as well.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Mikele » Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:18 pm

Having now heard the demos, I would tend to point the finger to the final production. I'm with DavidWT on Oceans, itis wonderfully written but doesn't deliver it's full potential.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Journey/Survivor » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:36 am

Mikele wrote:Having now heard the demos, I would tend to point the finger to the final production. I'm with DavidWT on Oceans, itis wonderfully written but doesn't deliver it's full potential.


When Kerrang magazine did an article about When Seconds Count back in 1986, the guy who wrote the article said that he considered Frankie Sullivan's guitar solo in "Oceans" to be the best solo on any new album that year.

I always wished that they hadn't made the keyboards so prominent in the mix during that solo. The solo would have sounded better if the keyboards were more subtle in the mix.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby DavidWT » Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:37 am

Speaking of Oceans, is it related to "Empires" from Jimi's solo album? The chorus has a similar hook ("Oceans between us" vs "Empires crumble"), and I see that Peterik and Sullivan are credited as co-writers on "Empires", so I'm wondering if "Empires" was maybe an earlier version of "Oceans" that got recycled by Jimi for the solo album. It's been a long time since I listened to it, though, so maybe I'm remembering more similarity than there actually is.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Journey/Survivor » Sat Aug 07, 2021 12:53 pm

DavidWT wrote:Speaking of Oceans, is it related to "Empires" from Jimi's solo album? The chorus has a similar hook ("Oceans between us" vs "Empires crumble"), and I see that Peterik and Sullivan are credited as co-writers on "Empires", so I'm wondering if "Empires" was maybe an earlier version of "Oceans" that got recycled by Jimi for the solo album. It's been a long time since I listened to it, though, so maybe I'm remembering more similarity than there actually is.


Since Peterik and Sullivan wrote the song "Empires," I always assumed that it had been written to be a Survivor song, but that it was never used by them. It sounds like it would have best fit the WSC album, and not VS or THTS.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby DavidWT » Mon Aug 09, 2021 11:26 pm

Finally listened to Oceans again for the first time in many years, and I have to say, it's better than I remembered it. Not sure why I usually skipped it back in the 80s/90s when I used to listen to this album.

I need to put some of these Survivor albums onto my iPhone so I can listen to them again more easily. I used to listen to them all the time, but tastes change over the years, and by the time I got my latest iPhone, I just wasn't so into Survivor anymore, so I didn't bother importing the albums to it. I was more interested in discovering new bands/albums. But I just recently read Peterik's autobiography, which kind of got me into this stuff again.
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Re: Revisiting When Seconds Count

Postby Slander » Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:48 am

Oceans is in my opinion the best track on the album. Not dripping with Peterik sythesizer. Frankie shreds and Jimmy does a powerhouse vocal. Damn, I miss that.
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