Survivor vs. Journey

by **Eyeof** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:28 pm

Why not...a little fun on a Thursday morning....

Let's move this post over and get going...

"You guys every thought that Journey's "Feeling That Way" and "Summer Nights" are really cut from the same mold?

THey have the same feel and even similiar subject line...Imagine a duet with Survivor (from that time era) and Journey (same era) on "Feeling That Way"...

Just something that hit me listening to both songs on the way to work today...."

- Now what we don't need is some conspiracy theories!

Seriously though, I never actually thought of the similarlies but I suppose both bands do have similar sounds and tones/styles might clash a bit here and there. Although "Feeling" has two leads. Then again, in Summer Nights, Frankie blends in with Dave's vocals on the 2nd verse if I remember correctly.

"Girl it always seems about september that’s the time, again I remember the lights"

"Opened my eyes to a new kind of way, soft and warm on a summers day"

Wait... I think you have a very good point! "

by **Eyeof** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:35 pm

Now before people start throwing stuff, I want to make it clear. Survivor is surperior to journey in every way. Just ask Ron Burgandy.

Just kidding, there is no doubt that Journey was, is and will always be a bigger band. Journey got an exclusive with Wal-Mart for goodness sake. Survivor in its current form (or maybe any from) couldn't do that with Big Lots.

With that said...why? Was Journey (in the day) that much of a surperior talent to Survivor?

Was Steve Perry that much better than Dave Bickler? Was J. Cain or Rollie that much better than Peterik and is Neil Schon that much more than Frankie Sullivan? Is Perry that much better than Jamison even?

It's hard to say. I think the music of journey was a little deeper rooted, but they had so much more succuess (especially from a visual standpoint) than Survivor, but I don't enjoy them that much more. In fact, I personally have always enjoyed them less.

I don't think they ever had a true rocker tune like Tiger or even Nothing Can Shake Me....I'm sure most will disagree, but hopefully we can debate this in a fun manner and even give some of us a chance to agree with Slander...(jk).....

by **Red13JoePa** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:52 pm

Eyeof wrote:Now before people start throwing stuff, I want to make it clear. Survivor is surperior to journey in every way. Just ask Ron Burgandy.

And don't laugh either, dude.
I have those bands damn near even. Put aside the fact that the Survivor never broke all the way through as a headliner in their heyday and just compare the music of both bands and Journey and Survivor are neck and neck.

AJM has also gone on record with these sentiments.

by **Eyeof** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:59 pm

by the way does anyone know what the hell that Ron Burgandy thing on the Anchorman CD with Survivor was about?

by **Eyeof** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:24 am

Did a little research here....found a few surprising stats to me...

(this is all based off of the Slander Billboard hot 100

Journey had 13 top 20 songs to Survivor's seven.....

In addition, Journey had six top-10 songs to Survivor's five...

Now keep in mind Journey released 51 singes to Survivor's 19.

In addition, Journey has released 13 albums (spanning 1975-2008) to Survivor's nine albums (1979-2006)

Journey actually has had a much more consistent lineup in throughout as well.

by **Eyeof** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:29 am

However, some interesting points in Survivor's favor...

Survivor has a number one singel (Tiger) and Journey does not.

In fact Journey's top hit was Open Arms that went to No. 2....the same position as Burning Heart.

Survivor has three top five hits (Journey only two)...

Now keep in mind that's all on billboard and who really cares...

It's kind of funny to me that High on You actually charted higher than Faithfully and I Can't Hold Back, which is silly.

A classic like 'Feeling that Way' was 83rd, and Summer Nights only went to 62, and yet 'Is This Love' was ninth and 'Suzanne' 17th....

still intereting points...

by **Red13JoePa** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:48 am

Feeling That Way (played now in tandem w/ Anytime ala Zep's Hearbreaker/Living Loving Maid) is like Lights and Wheel In The Sky in that it's one of those Journey tunes that is a bigger radio hit NOW then it was back in it's charting day.

I hear all of the above regularly on classic rock radio.

by **MarcelJordan** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:08 am

Im with the sentiments of Redjoe. I give both bands some equality. However, JP once said (don't quote me on this :twisted:

) but after the release of CITG he said they wanted to be "like Journey" or something to that effect.

Red is right. Survivor never did actually headline. But I suppose Stallone understood gritty music (at that point in time and liked Poor Man's son. Luckily Stallone was not interested in chart success to choose a band that could do justice to what he had in mind. So the rest is history.

Come now, Open Arms is hardly rock, as compared to EOTT. That's why OA reached only No. 42 I think in the rock charts (Although as we diehards don't really care that much, but its nice to be recognized, right?).

Journey when it comes to getting out there and doing things more actively was due to HH. Survivor had no such type of manager. Look at it this way, Perry is something else but only after HH understood, what difference this kind of vocals could do, we have the history to look back at. Survivor had Stallone (get the picture?). Stallone is no manager.LOL!

It's hard to say. I think the music of journey was a little deeper rooted, but they had so much more succuess (especially from a visual standpoint) than Survivor, but I don't enjoy them that much more. In fact, I personally have always enjoyed them less.

I don't think they ever had a true rocker tune like Tiger or even Nothing Can Shake Me....I'm sure most will disagree

I tend to agree on some ways but must say that Journey had tunes like Chain Reaction, Rubicon etc. Those ARE rock songs, but not accessible enough for radio, perhaps.

Ah, I think Im rambling now....

:oops:

by **Slander** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:21 am

MarcelJordan wrote:Red is right. Survivor never did actually headline.

Hey guys. I believe Survivor headlined smaller venues for the WSC tour. I saw them and of all people Jason and the Scorchers was supposed to open up. They got snowed out and instead Survivor dressed in costume and opened up at the group 'SPLEEN.' Frankie played some blues. It was really pretty cool.

by **Eyeof** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:24 am

They did headline that deal, but it was played in really small theaters etc.

by **Slander** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:26 am

Eyeof wrote:They did headline that deal, but it was played in really small theaters etc.

Yeah exactly...the place I saw them was only about 5k I think.

by **Red13JoePa** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:36 am

Yea I think they headlined the Valley Forge Music Fair for the Philly show in '86 or 87...
but the only time they've CONSISTENTLY headlined is like from '93 on after they commercial heyday.

by **Slander** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:38 am

Red13JoePa wrote:Yea I think they headlined the Valley Forge Music Fair for the Philly show in '86 or 87...
but the only time they've CONSISTENTLY headlined is like from '93 on after they commercial heyday.

True..Ya know I wonder why. I think they had what it took. Maybe there was just too many other bands like them at the time.

by **Eyeof** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:56 am

I think that people thought that...but the CITG era Survivor was actually pretty unique...

nobody had that sound...inbetween journey and 38 Special...

by **Gordon from Edinburgh** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:31 am

Eyeof wrote:Now before people start throwing stuff, I want to make it clear. Survivor is surperior to journey in every way. Just ask Ron Burgandy.

Just kidding, there is no doubt that Journey was, is and will always be a bigger band. Journey got an exclusive with Wal-Mart for goodness sake. Survivor in its current form (or maybe any from) couldn't do that with Big Lots.

With that said...why? Was Journey (in the day) that much of a surperior talent to Survivor?

Was Steve Perry that much better than Dave Bickler? Was J. Cain or Rollie that much better than Peterik and is Neil Schon that much more than Frankie Sullivan? Is Perry that much better than Jamison even?

It's hard to say. I think the music of journey was a little deeper rooted, but they had so much more succuess (especially from a visual standpoint) than Survivor, but I don't enjoy them that much more. In fact, I personally have always enjoyed them less.

I don't think they ever had a true rocker tune like Tiger or even Nothing Can Shake Me....I'm sure most will disagree, but hopefully we can debate this in a fun manner and even give some of us a chance to agree with Slander...(jk).....

I absolutely love Survivor and think they wrote some truly fantastic songs - but they rarely released an album that i loved almost every track on - perhaps Journey were simply slightly more consistent at writing top notch songs? Both bands were/are great tho and comparison is needless - i regularly play one then then the other - my biggest Survivor regret was the lack of recognition they got for Too Hot to Sleep - now thats a great album with only a couple of slightly below par songs. Jimi Jamison at his peak was nearly up there with Perry but perhaps - i say perhaps!!! didnt have quite the same charisma? Possibly, who knows - i only know that both bands have given me thousands of hours of listening pleasure......

by **survivorfan2005** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:42 pm

Its simple really, Journey was promoted and managed better.. It is still that way today unfortunatly. How many people know more Journey songs to Survivor's EOTT song? EOTT is pretty much all regular radio listeners know from Survivor. Marketing, promotion and management is what has kept Survivor barely alive.

I know what your thinking, hey I love survivor like everyone else and know that they had so many ops to get out there such as on national TV BUT they NEVER capatilized on that exposure. Not to mention the lack of updates to the fans and a new album. Journey, Survivor, Dave Bickler, Steve Perry, Robin McCauley.. it dosnt matter, if a band has bad promotion it dosnt matter who the singer or band members are they still will go no place.

Of course, it dosn't help either that the classic rock AOR Genre is at an all time low due to so many rappers and heavy metalsters.. Think about it this way, most of the stuff on modern radio is either rap songs or screaming heavy metal songs eith the exception of a few.

by **7 Wishes** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:52 pm

I LOVE Survivor, but talent-wise, everyone other than Ross gets an "A". I would score everyone in Survivor an "A-". Close, but not quite as good.

by **Journey/Survivor** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:55 pm

As you might all gather by my screen-name, I love Journey and Survivor about equally.
I've always had a slight sentimental edge with Survivor, maybe somewhat because their more of the underdogs of the two bands.

It kind of pisses me off whenever someone tells me that one of them blows-away the other one. You especially see a lot of the people who are strictly fans of Journey and not of Survivor claim that Journey blows-away Survivor more so than the other way around. Although I do know several people who feel that Survivor blows-away Journey.

by **Irwin M Fletcher** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:33 pm

i personally prefer survivor although it doesn't help that they have 1 original member left or that they have done 1 album in the last 18 years,lol.

by **Ehwmatt** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:46 am

7 Wishes wrote:I LOVE Survivor, but talent-wise, everyone other than Ross gets an "A". I would score everyone in Survivor an "A-". Close, but not quite as good.

Disclaimer: Neal Schon is one of my all-time favorite players.

But, Jim Peterik is at least as talented as any of those guys.

Killer songwriter
Great keyboardist
Great guitar player
Good singer

No one from Journey has all 4 of those attributes.

by **Journey/Survivor** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:40 pm

Neal Schon is my #1 favorite guitarist in the world, but Frankie Sullivan is a close second. And I do prefer Sullivan's rhythm playing over Schon's.

Jimi Jamison is my #1 favorite lead vocalist, with Steve Perry a very close second. I'm also a big fan of Dave Bickler who ranks in my top 5. Steve Augeri and Arnel Pineda rank high as well.

Jonathan Cain is my #1 favorite keyboardist, with Jim Peterik and Gregg Rolie more or less tied for second.

Jim Peterik is far and away my favorite songwriter of all time. With Frankie Sullivan, Jonathan Cain, Steve Perry, Lou Gramm and Mick Jones being my next favorites.

Steve Smith is the most technically advanced drummer in the world, Aynsley Dunbar and Deen Castronovo aren't far behind though. But if you just want straight ahead Rock drumming that kicks ass, then you won't find anyone better than Marc Droubay. Droubay has a very ballsy sound, I love the sound of his drumming, and is the best possible drummer to play with Frankie Sullivan's awesome rhythm playing.

Ross Valory is my favorite Rock bassist with Stephan Ellis not far behind.

Anyway, I consider the two bands to be pretty evenly matched.

And if you exclude the Survivor and Journey family-tree bands, then Foreigner is my third favorite. But their still behind Survivor and Journey on my list.

by **Irwin M Fletcher** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:41 pm

Journey/Survivor wrote:Neal Schon is my #1 favorite guitarist in the world, but Frankie Sullivan is a close second. And I do prefer Sullivan's rhythm playing over Schon's.

Jimi Jamison is my #1 favorite lead vocalist, with Steve Perry a very close second. I'm also a big fan of Dave Bickler who ranks in my top 5. Steve Augeri and Arnel Pineda rank high as well.

Jonathan Cain is my #1 favorite keyboardist, with Jim Peterik and Gregg Rolie more or less tied for second.

Jim Peterik is far and away my favorite songwriter of all time. With Frankie Sullivan, Jonathan Cain, Steve Perry, Lou Gramm and Mick Jones being my next favorites.

Steve Smith is the most technically advanced drummer in the world, Aynsley Dunbar and Deen Castronovo aren't far behind though. But if you just want straight ahead Rock drumming that kicks ass, then you won't find anyone better than Marc Droubay. Droubay has a very ballsy sound, I love the sound of his drumming, and is the best possible drummer to play with Frankie Sullivan's awesome rhythm playing.

Ross Valory is my favorite Rock bassist with Stephan Ellis not far behind.

Anyway, I consider the two bands to be pretty evenly matched.

And if you exclude the Survivor and Journey family-tree bands, then Foreigner is my third favorite. But their still behind Survivor and Journey on my list.

wot about the dude from american idol that played bass on ROR? lol :lol:

by **Journey/Survivor** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:10 pm

Irwin M Fletcher wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:Neal Schon is my #1 favorite guitarist in the world, but Frankie Sullivan is a close second. And I do prefer Sullivan's rhythm playing over Schon's.

Jimi Jamison is my #1 favorite lead vocalist, with Steve Perry a very close second. I'm also a big fan of Dave Bickler who ranks in my top 5. Steve Augeri and Arnel Pineda rank high as well.

Jonathan Cain is my #1 favorite keyboardist, with Jim Peterik and Gregg Rolie more or less tied for second.

Jim Peterik is far and away my favorite songwriter of all time. With Frankie Sullivan, Jonathan Cain, Steve Perry, Lou Gramm and Mick Jones being my next favorites.

Steve Smith is the most technically advanced drummer in the world, Aynsley Dunbar and Deen Castronovo aren't far behind though. But if you just want straight ahead Rock drumming that kicks ass, then you won't find anyone better than Marc Droubay. Droubay has a very ballsy sound, I love the sound of his drumming, and is the best possible drummer to play with Frankie Sullivan's awesome rhythm playing.

Ross Valory is my favorite Rock bassist with Stephan Ellis not far behind.

Anyway, I consider the two bands to be pretty evenly matched.

And if you exclude the Survivor and Journey family-tree bands, then Foreigner is my third favorite. But their still behind Survivor and Journey on my list.

wot about the dude from american idol that played bass on ROR? lol

Actually, Randy Jackson is an awesome bass player. But I prefer Valory overall for Journey.

by **MarcelJordan** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:28 pm

It was about 6 months ago, I learned that Randy played the bass in the Frontiers album. Now that was a eye opener. He played on After the Fall. Possibly the MOST underrated tune in Journey's entire repertoire.

Closely followed by Once You Love Somebody. Randy was brilliant in that one!

by **Red13JoePa** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:23 am

No Valory was the bassist for all of Frontiers, though the legend has it that Jaxon played on After The Fall, with the famous bass flourish Ba da ba da ba ba da da da dump! in the middle.

Also agree w/ whomever made the comment that Frankie's a better rythm player than Schon.

by **Ehwmatt** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:05 am

Red13JoePa wrote:No Valory was the bassist for all of Frontiers, though the legend has it that Jaxon played on After The Fall, with the famous bass flourish Ba da ba da ba ba da da da dump! in the middle.

Also agree w/ whomever made the comment that Frankie's a better rythm player than Schon.

I could definitely see Randy playing bass on ATF... that bassline is just a little bit too groovy for what Ross usually brings, but who knows. Would be interesting to know for sure

by **Tito** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:18 am

Randy Jackson DID play bass on ATF. It saids in the liner notes. Plus, on the ROR documentary Neal saids it.

by **MarcelJordan** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:22 pm

Red13JoePa wrote: No Valory was the bassist for all of Frontiers, though the legend has it that Jaxon played on After The Fall, with the famous bass flourish Ba da ba da ba ba da da da dump! in the middle.

Also agree w/ whomever made the comment that Frankie's a better rythm player than Schon.

Valory was credited for bass in the Frontiers album (I don't think in the original sleeve was there any mention of Randy), but Randy DID play bass on ATF as Ross was absent (for whatever reason I don't know). I swear I saw this somewhere.

Tito wrote:Randy Jackson DID play bass on ATF. It saids in the liner notes. Plus, on the ROR documentary Neal saids it.

I rest my bag...er case!

by **Journey/Survivor** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:11 am

Yes, it was Randy that played bass on After The Fall. The rest of the album was with Ross on bass.

by **RockInDetroit** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:58 am

Ok, here's a better question. Who was better Survivor or the Beatles?

MR

Survivor vs. Journey

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