www.frankiesullivan.com

[Eyeof]

I tend to agree with the cover aspect, i mean can you imagine Mick Mars touring as Motley Crue without Vince, Tommy or Nikki? It would be a joke...which it is....

Imagine the Reo Speedwagon guitar player touring as Reo without any other original member? Heck, Eddie Van Halen is a legend, but people still won't accept Van Halen without Roth or even Hager...

[Eyeof]

I have learned the real scoop behind why FS is so mad a JP on this one...Wow!

[Slander]

I tend to agree with the cover aspect

Hey Eye, I understand not liking Robin on vocals. I get it. He's not for everyone. Although I think he does a hell of a job live! I just don't think you are giving FS and Marc enough credit here. In regards to VH. There is no VH without Eddie plain and simple.

[DavidWT]

I have learned the real scoop behind why FS is so mad a JP on this one...Wow!

Care to share?

[Eyeof]

Yes...the real reason is that FS is greatly hurt that he was not invited to be in the "When Rock Was King" video...he's pretty much been unable to think or write or produce...it's the reason the new album is not finished...FS is consumed with not getting to be a part of that classic rock masterpiece...

I can't blame him actually.....

[Eyeof]

I'm not really trying to belittle their contribution at all, but when you have a five-man band and three of the five are long, long gone....you are on your third singer (who is a terrible fit), you fifth or sixth bass player, fifth of sixth keyboardist, third drummer (once removed)...it's not really what we all fell in love with...that's all....I don't think Kiss without Peter and Ace is really kiss either, although no mistaking that Gene and Paul are the mainstays....

At this point a song featuring JP, DB and JJ has to be considered more Survivor than just FS and MD? Right?

By the way, that song is awful!

[DavidWT]

Yes...the real reason is that FS is greatly hurt that he was not invited to be in the "When Rock Was King" video...he's pretty much been unable to think or write or produce...it's the reason the new album is not finished...FS is consumed with not getting to be a part of that classic rock masterpiece...

I can't blame him actually.....

LOL
Hell, I think ANY pop star of the 80s who didn't get to contribute to that masterpiece ought to be pissed off.
(note the sarcasm.)

[Slander]

By the way, that song is awful!

Are you talking about When Rock Was King? Couldn't agree more. What were they thinking. Yes it's tongue and cheek but as some point enough is enough.

[kgdjpubs]

I a but without new material, they are simply a cover band at the moment.

Ouch! Strongly disagree here. This band is much more than just the voice! FS and Marc D are a vital part in the Survivor sound.

At this point, with only those two remaining, and a singer who sounds nothing like either JJ or DB, I'd be tempted to say a JJ solo show with JP helping is as much "Survivor" as the real band is. Same with Dave now performing at the World Stage shows--you still have 2 original (or longtime in JJ's case) members of the band with a few extra backing musicians for those songs.

If the current lineup records something, I'll be happy to change my opinion. As it stands at the moment, that doesn't seem likely to happen however.

[DavidWT]

At this point, with only those two remaining, and a singer who sounds nothing like either JJ or DB, I'd be tempted to say a JJ solo show with JP helping is as much "Survivor" as the real band is.

Which is why, for me at least, a new Survivor album with Frankie and Marc as the only two remaining members wouldn't be a Survivor album any more than Crossroads Moment was. Survivor has always been the songwriting combination of Frankie and JP. Take one out of the mix, and it's not really Survivor, regardless of who owns the name.

[Abitaman]

I a but without new material, they are simply a cover band at the moment.

Ouch! Strongly disagree here. This band is much more than just the voice! FS and Marc D are a vital part in the Survivor sound.

but with a new vocalist they are until they record something new

[Andrew]

I agree....should there ever be another Survivor album. I just don't see it coming. With Robin they can tour, but recording under the name Survivor with this line up is just a non-interest to all but the very die-hards.

Interestingly enough, I'm MUCH more interested in a new album than touring. No interest whatsoever seeing them live just covering the old material with a singer who sounds nothing like the other two, but new songs would be worth listening to. I'm sure I'm in the minority however, but without new material, they are simply a cover band at the moment.

Me too actually. I'd liek to see a new Robin solo album with Frankie producing again... And then some work behind the scenes to restore Survivor to it's original form. But that'll never happen.

[MarcelJordan]

Interestingly enough, I'm MUCH more interested in a new album than touring. No interest whatsoever seeing them live just covering the old material with a singer who sounds nothing like the other two, but new songs would be worth listening to. I'm sure I'm in the minority however, but without new material, they are simply a cover band at the moment.

If Survivor does a live show, they are supposed to be the real deal. But people also go to see JJ and JP because maybe they rather hear them. Yet, JJ/JP hardly play any of their new stuff and mostly Survivor stuff. So the thing is it is not necessarily a new album that is important but rather Survivor songs. So we're caught in a dilemma aren't we?

Where is the line drawn?

With regards to them getting back together (the original line up etc) Frankie once commented some time ago about JP telling that "Burning Heart" is Eye of The Tiger played sideways. FS says "whatever that means". And when it came to JP co-writing the book "Song Writing for Dummies" Frankie said something a long the lines of "you can't teach someone to write songs it comes from natural ability, you have to have in you". So with this kind of disagreement about songs in general there is no real solution for them to get back together. What we don't need is two guys who have seemingly different views on how write songs..write songs together!

MJ

[Journey/Survivor]

Interestingly enough, I'm MUCH more interested in a new album than touring. No interest whatsoever seeing them live just covering the old material with a singer who sounds nothing like the other two, but new songs would be worth listening to. I'm sure I'm in the minority however, but without new material, they are simply a cover band at the moment.

If Survivor does a live show, they are supposed to be the real deal. But people also go to see JJ and JP because maybe they rather hear them. Yet, JJ/JP hardly play any of their new stuff and mostly Survivor stuff. So the thing is it is not necessarily a new album that is important but rather Survivor songs. So we're caught in a dilemma aren't we?

Where is the line drawn?

With regards to them getting back together (the original line up etc) Frankie once commented some time ago about JP telling that "Burning Heart" is Eye of The Tiger played sideways. FS says "whatever that means". And when it came to JP co-writing the book "Song Writing for Dummies" Frankie said something a long the lines of "you can't teach someone to write songs it comes from natural ability, you have to have in you". So with this kind of disagreement about songs in general there is no real solution for them to get back together. What we don't need is two guys who have seemingly different views on how write songs..write songs together!

MJ

I think that Peterik probably meant that "Burning Heart" was very similar to "Eye Of The Tiger" but with a twist, obviously not exactly the same?

As for Frankie's comment about songwriting, I think he's somewhat correct and somewhat wrong. If someone does not have any songwriting abilities in them, then they probably can't be taught how to write songs? But I do think that someone can be taught to be a better writer than what they are on their own.

Even though I obviously was never in the room with Peterik and Sullivan while they wrote a song, there is no doubt in my mind that Peterik made Sullivan a better writer than he had been before they ever worked together. And to a somewhat lesser extent I think that Sullivan made Peterik a better writer too. The very best songs that either of them have ever written were co-written with each other.

To offer up more proof that Peterik made Sullivan a better songwriter, I would point out that Sullivan is not listed as having done any writing on the "Mariah" album that he was on back in 1975. But as most if not all of us on here know, Peterik had already written plenty of songs before working with Sullivan, including a smash hit in "Vehicle."

I think that Sullivan and Jamison are great songwriters in moderation. I think they can co-write some great songs, even without Peterik as a co-writer, but I think that without someone like Peterik it takes a long time for them to write an entire albums worth of good-to-great songs.

If Sullivan is never going to write any new songs with Peterik again, then it would be great to see him bring in Jonathan Cain as a co-writer. But of course Cain has his hands full with Journey.

But I'm at least holding out hope for the songs that Steve Perry and Frankie Sullivan discussed writing together to come out no later than the year 2058.

[Abitaman]

With regards to them getting back together (the original line up etc) Frankie once commented some time ago about JP telling that "Burning Heart" is Eye of The Tiger played sideways. FS says "whatever that means". And when it came to JP co-writing the book "Song Writing for Dummies" Frankie said something a long the lines of "you can't teach someone to write songs it comes from natural ability, you have to have in you". So with this kind of disagreement about songs in general there is no real solution for them to get back together. What we don't need is two guys who have seemingly different views on how write songs..write songs together!

MJ

Message Of Love by Journey is Seperate Ways side ways. The band even said so.
As far as different writing ablilties, that can be a big help, combine the two and it can make a great song. A lot of Styx stuff during the first few Shaw cds with them got a lot of mileage from that.

[Joe Vana]

Yes...the real reason is that FS is greatly hurt that he was not invited to be in the "When Rock Was King" video...he's pretty much been unable to think or write or produce...it's the reason the new album is not finished...FS is consumed with not getting to be a part of that classic rock masterpiece...

I can't blame him actually.....

As a FAN....

IMHO....

I have to imagine JP had to convince JJ to do that one...I actually was uncomfortable listening to that one....pretty god awful...and the video...oh my...Mikey on the solo and JP was jumping around like he played it...no way....the rest of the album was stellar if ya ask me....really good job by Larry on the mix, JP production all the way...

As far as this whole Survivor thing...AS A FAN...it really escapes me...believe me guys, I know what it takes and how hard it is to create the album you hear in your head....I have struggled myself...but as we finish Mecca II (I have one tune I have sent to a few people for review as the album nears the finish)....I DO completely understand the hold up...the six tunes I wrote with Sullivan WILL be released...either by him as Survivor or by me...and within a year...great shit that needs to be released...I just wish he, the camp...whatever would finish the darn thing....I have a day gig...I do this as a hobby...but they are fulltime muso's...get it done my guys...JP works freaking 50 plus hours a week on music...that is why he can churn out the product...but even if 10 to 12 hours a week went into it they could finish the album...there must be a behind the scenes issue, but, I just hope it comes out...at least then I will know what tunes I can release on my own that they did not use!! As far as FS the person or JP for that matter I have mad respect for both of them...they really shaped my youth musically, and luckly enough for me personally as well...I wish these two would just sack up and freaking write together...I don't give a crap about all the in fighting of who did what...who is a producer...who plays guitar better...who wrote what...these two have NEVER done anything anywher near what they did TOGETHER..... so get in a room and write for gods sake...I wrote an entire album with Tommy Denander over the internet!!! We did work together here in Chicago after, but we actually formed and wrote the tunes virtually...it does work!!! Somebody needs to grab em both and lock em in a room!!!! I have no benefit, as I work with neither of them anymore...one cause of a bulshit reason I regret immensely...my fault...and the other I have no idea...but this needs to happen.......I am a fan and I am saying this...I have followed them, know them, worked with them...but we NEED a reuinon of some type here...BURY THE PAST...BURY THE FUED....as far as a singer, I will NOT speak on that as I respect all three WAYYY to much...they all fucking kill and ANY band would be honored to have any of them...AND I HAVE heard a NEW Survivor tune with Robin on it and it IS amazing...he is a bad mofo...period....so stop saying all that crap....JJ has his chops back and DB is DB...who would ever want more????

Sorry for the rant guys...but this has been a LONNNNGGGG time coming....as a fan I am frustrated about a lot...I had to purge a bit...

I Love all the guys involved..but...Seriously??? Really????

JV

[Abitaman]

Yes...the real reason is that FS is greatly hurt that he was not invited to be in the "When Rock Was King" video...he's pretty much been unable to think or write or produce...it's the reason the new album is not finished...FS is consumed with not getting to be a part of that classic rock masterpiece...

I can't blame him actually.....

As a FAN....

IMHO....

I have to imagine JP had to convince JJ to do that one...I actually was uncomfortable listening to that one....pretty god awful...and the video...oh my...Mikey on the solo and JP was jumping around like he played it...no way....the rest of the album was stellar if ya ask me....really good job by Larry on the mix, JP production all the way...

As far as this whole Survivor thing...AS A FAN...it really escapes me...believe me guys, I know what it takes and how hard it is to create the album you hear in your head....I have struggled myself...but as we finish Mecca II (I have one tune I have sent to a few people for review as the album nears the finish)....I DO completely understand the hold up...the six tunes I wrote with Sullivan WILL be released...either by him as Survivor or by me...and within a year...great shit that needs to be released...I just wish he, the camp...whatever would finish the darn thing....I have a day gig...I do this as a hobby...but they are fulltime muso's...get it done my guys...JP works freaking 50 plus hours a week on music...that is why he can churn out the product...but even if 10 to 12 hours a week went into it they could finish the album...there must be a behind the scenes issue, but, I just hope it comes out...at least then I will know what tunes I can release on my own that they did not use!! As far as FS the person or JP for that matter I have mad respect for both of them...they really shaped my youth musically, and luckly enough for me personally as well...I wish these two would just sack up and freaking write together...I don't give a crap about all the in fighting of who did what...who is a producer...who plays guitar better...who wrote what...these two have NEVER done anything anywher near what they did TOGETHER..... so get in a room and write for gods sake...I wrote an entire album with Tommy Denander over the internet!!! We did work together here in Chicago after, but we actually formed and wrote the tunes virtually...it does work!!! Somebody needs to grab em both and lock em in a room!!!! I have no benefit, as I work with neither of them anymore...one cause of a bulshit reason I regret immensely...my fault...and the other I have no idea...but this needs to happen.......I am a fan and I am saying this...I have followed them, know them, worked with them...but we NEED a reuinon of some type here...BURY THE PAST...BURY THE FUED....as far as a singer, I will NOT speak on that as I respect all three WAYYY to much...they all fucking kill and ANY band would be honored to have any of them...AND I HAVE heard a NEW Survivor tune with Robin on it and it IS amazing...he is a bad mofo...period....so stop saying all that crap....JJ has his chops back and DB is DB...who would ever want more????

Sorry for the rant guys...but this has been a LONNNNGGGG time coming....as a fan I am frustrated about a lot...I had to purge a bit...

I Love all the guys involved..but...Seriously??? Really????

JV

Great post, you can rant like that anytime!!

[kgdjpubs]

Interestingly enough, I'm MUCH more interested in a new album than touring. No interest whatsoever seeing them live just covering the old material with a singer who sounds nothing like the other two, but new songs would be worth listening to. I'm sure I'm in the minority however, but without new material, they are simply a cover band at the moment.

If Survivor does a live show, they are supposed to be the real deal. But people also go to see JJ and JP because maybe they rather hear them. Yet, JJ/JP hardly play any of their new stuff and mostly Survivor stuff. So the thing is it is not necessarily a new album that is important but rather Survivor songs. So we're caught in a dilemma aren't we?

Where is the line drawn?

probably the simple point which has fractured the current version of the band maybe even further than it was. Robin McAuley is an ok singer. If he and Frankie Sullivan like working together, they have every right to. The issue comes in when you put Robin in Survivor--where his voice sounds NOTHING like either Dave Bickler nor Jimi Jamison. I'm sure he's giving it his all, and I'm happy for any fans that appreciate that...but for me, it simply doesn't work.

It MIGHT have worked back in the day giving the mic to him instead of Jimi Jamison. It might have worked after Too Hot to Sleep if the band had continued making records through the 90s. 20 years after the fact, it simply doesn't work--the sound is too far ingrained to the Bickler/Jamison vocals. The lack of any new material to give him only forwards the notion that he is a hired hand brought onboard so that Frankie Sullivan can tour as Survivor.

I fully understand the business aspect that "Survivor" will sell more tickets than the McAuley/Sullivan Band, but without anything to cement this on record with new material, I simply have no interest in following along.

With regards to them getting back together (the original line up etc) Frankie once commented some time ago about JP telling that "Burning Heart" is Eye of The Tiger played sideways. FS says "whatever that means". And when it came to JP co-writing the book "Song Writing for Dummies" Frankie said something a long the lines of "you can't teach someone to write songs it comes from natural ability, you have to have in you". So with this kind of disagreement about songs in general there is no real solution for them to get back together. What we don't need is two guys who have seemingly different views on how write songs..write songs together!

MJ

I see that exactly opposite. Tension is good in bands, as long as it's healthy. When it comes to chemistry (be it songwriting or otherwise), the rule is if it works and is not destructive to one or both parties, don't ask WHY it works--just accept it for what it is. Peterik is a good songwriter on his own, but he needs someone to push him a little bit. Frankie Sullivan did that very well. His signature guitar sound and melodies provided a spark that JP hasn't really been able to achieve much on his own. Even in his attempts to recreate the Survivor sound (which does happen occasionally), you can tell there is something missing. Mix the technical side of songwriting with the from-the-heart-this-sounds-good-here style, and you get something special. That can be the benefit of co-writing.

That tension is exactly why a lot of bands are successful. You need that opposing force to push you beyond your comfort zone. That's where magic can happen. Push the pendulum too far, and the band can fall apart. Everyone thinking the exact same way can be just as destructive however, as you get on cruise control. When it becomes destructive, you need to stop and take a break. Destructive never helps anyone. Sometimes it recovers, sometimes it doesn't. If you can recover (or at least move on), there is no reason why you shouldn't try it again if the timing is right.

[kgdjpubs]

Yes...the real reason is that FS is greatly hurt that he was not invited to be in the "When Rock Was King" video...he's pretty much been unable to think or write or produce...it's the reason the new album is not finished...FS is consumed with not getting to be a part of that classic rock masterpiece...

I can't blame him actually.....

As a FAN....

IMHO....

I have to imagine JP had to convince JJ to do that one...I actually was uncomfortable listening to that one....pretty god awful...and the video...oh my...Mikey on the solo and JP was jumping around like he played it...no way....the rest of the album was stellar if ya ask me....really good job by Larry on the mix, JP production all the way...

The question is....who thought it was a good idea to do that song? Maybe the idea was good. Maybe the demo had some magic that the final version wasn't able to capture. At some point though, whatever might have been good was long since lost along the way. Extravagace took over, and the final product failed on all counts. Was someone afraid to tell them that it simply didn't work, or what? When the fan reaction is embarrassing, it should have been caught by several people--and especially the record company if by no one else beforehand.

The rest of the album was quite good--if a bit overlong and containing a few songs that would have been best served in other projects, but that one song...my my my.

[Joe Vana]

Yes...the real reason is that FS is greatly hurt that he was not invited to be in the "When Rock Was King" video...he's pretty much been unable to think or write or produce...it's the reason the new album is not finished...FS is consumed with not getting to be a part of that classic rock masterpiece...

I can't blame him actually.....

As a FAN....

IMHO....

I have to imagine JP had to convince JJ to do that one...I actually was uncomfortable listening to that one....pretty god awful...and the video...oh my...Mikey on the solo and JP was jumping around like he played it...no way....the rest of the album was stellar if ya ask me....really good job by Larry on the mix, JP production all the way...

The question is....who thought it was a good idea to do that song? Maybe the idea was good. Maybe the demo had some magic that the final version wasn't able to capture. At some point though, whatever might have been good was long since lost along the way. Extravagace took over, and the final product failed on all counts. Was someone afraid to tell them that it simply didn't work, or what? When the fan reaction is embarrassing, it should have been caught by several people--and especially the record company if by no one else beforehand.

The rest of the album was quite good--if a bit overlong and containing a few songs that would have been best served in other projects, but that one song...my my my.

I think it was the first single?? I know they made that video....on an album of SO MANY GREAT tunes to pump up this tune??? who the heck masterminded that one!!!!!

Jesus H. Christ...wtf....

I think I am coming unglued today.....JV

[kgdjpubs]

The rest of the album was quite good--if a bit overlong and containing a few songs that would have been best served in other projects, but that one song...my my my.

I think it was the first single?? I know they made that video....on an album of SO MANY GREAT tunes to pump up this tune??? who the heck masterminded that one!!!!!

that said, I have seen VERY few Frontiers videos that were anything more than a total mess. This might have been one of the worst of the bunch however--and did absolutely nothing to salvage the song. I would have been closer to releasing the title track for the video. You could have done something with that song given the right people behind the camera.

[DavidWT]

Funny thng is, before I bought the album, I read several reviews that acted like "When Rock Was King" was the highlight of the CD. So I approached it with very high expectations, which were quickly dashed.
I guess some people just liked the concept of the song ("Woohoo! All my teenage idols singing together! Yay!"), and maybe they wrote their reviews before the reality of song really sunk in.
As it is, I usually stop the CD before getting to that song. Why ruin an otherwise excellent album with that cheese-fest?

[Saint John]

I'm not really trying to belittle their contribution at all, but when you have a five-man band and three of the five are long, long gone....you are on your third singer (who is a terrible fit), you fifth or sixth bass player, fifth of sixth keyboardist, third drummer (once removed)...it's not really what we all fell in love with...that's all....I don't think Kiss without Peter and Ace is really kiss either, although no mistaking that Gene and Paul are the mainstays....

At this point a song featuring JP, DB and JJ has to be considered more Survivor than just FS and MD? Right?

By the way, that song is awful!

Bring back Peterik and make Toby Hitchcock the new singer. The band would be an instant force. Peterik and Sullivan, friends or foes, sure made some incredible music and melodies together, and TH can sing with anyone on this planet.

[DavidWT]

Bring back Peterik and make Toby Hitchcock the new singer. The band would be an instant force. Peterik and Sullivan, friends or foes, sure made some incredible music and melodies together, and TH can sing with anyone on this planet.

Sounds good to me.

[kgdjpubs]

I'm not really trying to belittle their contribution at all, but when you have a five-man band and three of the five are long, long gone....you are on your third singer (who is a terrible fit), you fifth or sixth bass player, fifth of sixth keyboardist, third drummer (once removed)...it's not really what we all fell in love with...that's all....I don't think Kiss without Peter and Ace is really kiss either, although no mistaking that Gene and Paul are the mainstays....

At this point a song featuring JP, DB and JJ has to be considered more Survivor than just FS and MD? Right?

By the way, that song is awful!

Bring back Peterik and make Toby Hitchcock the new singer. The band would be an instant force. Peterik and Sullivan, friends or foes, sure made some incredible music and melodies together, and TH can sing with anyone on this planet.

I don't think anything would make Survivor an "instant force" this day and age. It just isn't going to happen. That said, Toby Hitchcock would do well in the band. At least he has a voice that is similar enough to make it work.

[Journey/Survivor]

Yes...the real reason is that FS is greatly hurt that he was not invited to be in the "When Rock Was King" video...he's pretty much been unable to think or write or produce...it's the reason the new album is not finished...FS is consumed with not getting to be a part of that classic rock masterpiece...

I can't blame him actually.....

As a FAN....

IMHO....

I have to imagine JP had to convince JJ to do that one...I actually was uncomfortable listening to that one....pretty god awful...and the video...oh my...Mikey on the solo and JP was jumping around like he played it...no way....the rest of the album was stellar if ya ask me....really good job by Larry on the mix, JP production all the way...

As far as this whole Survivor thing...AS A FAN...it really escapes me...believe me guys, I know what it takes and how hard it is to create the album you hear in your head....I have struggled myself...but as we finish Mecca II (I have one tune I have sent to a few people for review as the album nears the finish)....I DO completely understand the hold up...the six tunes I wrote with Sullivan WILL be released...either by him as Survivor or by me...and within a year...great shit that needs to be released...I just wish he, the camp...whatever would finish the darn thing....I have a day gig...I do this as a hobby...but they are fulltime muso's...get it done my guys...JP works freaking 50 plus hours a week on music...that is why he can churn out the product...but even if 10 to 12 hours a week went into it they could finish the album...there must be a behind the scenes issue, but, I just hope it comes out...at least then I will know what tunes I can release on my own that they did not use!! As far as FS the person or JP for that matter I have mad respect for both of them...they really shaped my youth musically, and luckly enough for me personally as well...I wish these two would just sack up and freaking write together...I don't give a crap about all the in fighting of who did what...who is a producer...who plays guitar better...who wrote what...these two have NEVER done anything anywher near what they did TOGETHER..... so get in a room and write for gods sake...I wrote an entire album with Tommy Denander over the internet!!! We did work together here in Chicago after, but we actually formed and wrote the tunes virtually...it does work!!! Somebody needs to grab em both and lock em in a room!!!! I have no benefit, as I work with neither of them anymore...one cause of a bulshit reason I regret immensely...my fault...and the other I have no idea...but this needs to happen.......I am a fan and I am saying this...I have followed them, know them, worked with them...but we NEED a reuinon of some type here...BURY THE PAST...BURY THE FUED....as far as a singer, I will NOT speak on that as I respect all three WAYYY to much...they all fucking kill and ANY band would be honored to have any of them...AND I HAVE heard a NEW Survivor tune with Robin on it and it IS amazing...he is a bad mofo...period....so stop saying all that crap....JJ has his chops back and DB is DB...who would ever want more????

Sorry for the rant guys...but this has been a LONNNNGGGG time coming....as a fan I am frustrated about a lot...I had to purge a bit...

I Love all the guys involved..but...Seriously??? Really????

JV

Great, great post, Joe! I loved it!

Like I said the other day, it's a shame that two adult men that are in that late 50's early 60's age range can't handle things more maturely. They remind me of Perry and Schon.

[Journey/Survivor]

My thoughts on Robin Mcauley's singing voice.

In general, Robin does not have the type of singing voice that I usually like in general. I like the smoother vocals of guys like Jimi Jamison, Steve Perry, Lou Gramm, Joe Lynn Turner, Mike Reno etc.

But I have always liked Robin's singing despite the rougher sound. I liked his singing back when songs like "Anytime" and "When I'm Gone" by MSG were on the radio. I don't doubt in the least that I would like Robin's vocals on brand new Survivor songs. I think he and Frankie worked very well together on the "Business As Usual" CD.

Of course Robin doesn't sound nearly as good on the past Survivor songs as Jamison and Bickler do.

But as I've said before, if Frankie ever wants Robin to be accepted by Survivor fans as being a true member of the band, then they need to release a brand new album with him on vocals. And some more live shows wouldn't hurt either.

There is a website for Paradise Artists that has versions of "Eye Of The Tiger" "Fire Makes Steel" and "Reach" with Robin doing the lead vocals, if any of you are interested in hearing those. I kind of like the job he did singing "Fire Makes Steel" and "Reach."

[axecrew]

Interestingly enough, I'm MUCH more interested in a new album than touring. No interest whatsoever seeing them live just covering the old material with a singer who sounds nothing like the other two, but new songs would be worth listening to. I'm sure I'm in the minority however, but without new material, they are simply a cover band at the moment.

If Survivor does a live show, they are supposed to be the real deal. But people also go to see JJ and JP because maybe they rather hear them. Yet, JJ/JP hardly play any of their new stuff and mostly Survivor stuff. So the thing is it is not necessarily a new album that is important but rather Survivor songs. So we're caught in a dilemma aren't we?

Where is the line drawn?

With regards to them getting back together (the original line up etc) Frankie once commented some time ago about JP telling that "Burning Heart" is Eye of The Tiger played sideways. FS says "whatever that means". And when it came to JP co-writing the book "Song Writing for Dummies" Frankie said something a long the lines of "you can't teach someone to write songs it comes from natural ability, you have to have in you". So with this kind of disagreement about songs in general there is no real solution for them to get back together. What we don't need is two guys who have seemingly different views on how write songs..write songs together!

MJ

I think that Peterik probably meant that "Burning Heart" was very similar to "Eye Of The Tiger" but with a twist, obviously not exactly the same?

As for Frankie's comment about songwriting, I think he's somewhat correct and somewhat wrong. If someone does not have any songwriting abilities in them, then they probably can't be taught how to write songs? But I do think that someone can be taught to be a better writer than what they are on their own.

Even though I obviously was never in the room with Peterik and Sullivan while they wrote a song, there is no doubt in my mind that Peterik made Sullivan a better writer than he had been before they ever worked together. And to a somewhat lesser extent I think that Sullivan made Peterik a better writer too. The very best songs that either of them have ever written were co-written with each other.

To offer up more proof that Peterik made Sullivan a better songwriter, I would point out that Sullivan is not listed as having done any writing on the "Mariah" album that he was on back in 1975. But as most if not all of us on here know, Peterik had already written plenty of songs before working with Sullivan, including a smash hit in "Vehicle."

I think that Sullivan and Jamison are great songwriters in moderation. I think they can co-write some great songs, even without Peterik as a co-writer, but I think that without someone like Peterik it takes a long time for them to write an entire albums worth of good-to-great songs.

If Sullivan is never going to write any new songs with Peterik again, then it would be great to see him bring in Jonathan Cain as a co-writer. But of course Cain has his hands full with Journey.

But I'm at least holding out hope for the songs that Steve Perry and Frankie Sullivan discussed writing together to come out no later than the year 2058.

Not sure I agree with 1 part of your post. That being the comment about how the best songs each has ever written was with each other. If I may offer up as evidence.....a ton of the .38 Special catalog including the song "Hold on Loosely". Sullivan never co-wrote anything like that outside of his writing with JIM.If you read the liner notes on the .38 Special Anthology record, they talk about being sent up to Chicago to write with Jim...no mention of sullivan at all except when mentioning the song "Rockin' Into The Night". Which was co-wriitne by sullivan along with Smith of the original version of survivor pre marc and stephan

[MarcelJordan]

I'm not really trying to belittle their contribution at all, but when you have a five-man band and three of the five are long, long gone....you are on your third singer (who is a terrible fit), you fifth or sixth bass player, fifth of sixth keyboardist, third drummer (once removed)...it's not really what we all fell in love with...that's all....I don't think Kiss without Peter and Ace is really kiss either, although no mistaking that Gene and Paul are the mainstays....

At this point a song featuring JP, DB and JJ has to be considered more Survivor than just FS and MD? Right?

By the way, that song is awful!

Bring back Peterik and make Toby Hitchcock the new singer. The band would be an instant force. Peterik and Sullivan, friends or foes, sure made some incredible music and melodies together, and TH can sing with anyone on this planet.

I don't think anything would make Survivor an "instant force" this day and age. It just isn't going to happen. That said, Toby Hitchcock would do well in the band. At least he has a voice that is similar enough to make it work.

Toby is a interesting choice. But that would mean JP calling the shots...I'm kidding. However, only way I see this happening is if the new album is released with Robin and if it happens to be a pretty weak one. I don't think Robin is going anywhere as of yet.

MJ

[Journey/Survivor]

Interestingly enough, I'm MUCH more interested in a new album than touring. No interest whatsoever seeing them live just covering the old material with a singer who sounds nothing like the other two, but new songs would be worth listening to. I'm sure I'm in the minority however, but without new material, they are simply a cover band at the moment.

If Survivor does a live show, they are supposed to be the real deal. But people also go to see JJ and JP because maybe they rather hear them. Yet, JJ/JP hardly play any of their new stuff and mostly Survivor stuff. So the thing is it is not necessarily a new album that is important but rather Survivor songs. So we're caught in a dilemma aren't we?

Where is the line drawn?

With regards to them getting back together (the original line up etc) Frankie once commented some time ago about JP telling that "Burning Heart" is Eye of The Tiger played sideways. FS says "whatever that means". And when it came to JP co-writing the book "Song Writing for Dummies" Frankie said something a long the lines of "you can't teach someone to write songs it comes from natural ability, you have to have in you". So with this kind of disagreement about songs in general there is no real solution for them to get back together. What we don't need is two guys who have seemingly different views on how write songs..write songs together!

MJ

I think that Peterik probably meant that "Burning Heart" was very similar to "Eye Of The Tiger" but with a twist, obviously not exactly the same?

As for Frankie's comment about songwriting, I think he's somewhat correct and somewhat wrong. If someone does not have any songwriting abilities in them, then they probably can't be taught how to write songs? But I do think that someone can be taught to be a better writer than what they are on their own.

Even though I obviously was never in the room with Peterik and Sullivan while they wrote a song, there is no doubt in my mind that Peterik made Sullivan a better writer than he had been before they ever worked together. And to a somewhat lesser extent I think that Sullivan made Peterik a better writer too. The very best songs that either of them have ever written were co-written with each other.

To offer up more proof that Peterik made Sullivan a better songwriter, I would point out that Sullivan is not listed as having done any writing on the "Mariah" album that he was on back in 1975. But as most if not all of us on here know, Peterik had already written plenty of songs before working with Sullivan, including a smash hit in "Vehicle."

I think that Sullivan and Jamison are great songwriters in moderation. I think they can co-write some great songs, even without Peterik as a co-writer, but I think that without someone like Peterik it takes a long time for them to write an entire albums worth of good-to-great songs.

If Sullivan is never going to write any new songs with Peterik again, then it would be great to see him bring in Jonathan Cain as a co-writer. But of course Cain has his hands full with Journey.

But I'm at least holding out hope for the songs that Steve Perry and Frankie Sullivan discussed writing together to come out no later than the year 2058.

Not sure I agree with 1 part of your post. That being the comment about how the best songs each has ever written was with each other. If I may offer up as evidence.....a ton of the .38 Special catalog including the song "Hold on Loosely". Sullivan never co-wrote anything like that outside of his writing with JIM.If you read the liner notes on the .38 Special Anthology record, they talk about being sent up to Chicago to write with Jim...no mention of sullivan at all except when mentioning the song "Rockin' Into The Night". Which was co-wriitne by sullivan along with Smith of the original version of survivor pre marc and stephan

Yes, I am aware of all of the great songs that Peterik has co-written with 38 Special like "Hold On Loosely" "Caught Up In You" "Fade To Blue" "Fantasy Girl" "Sound Of Your Voice" etc, etc. Their not far off from Survivor quality, I do love them. And of course Peterik wrote "Vehicle" by himself, which I also love. But I still think that some of his very best songs were written with Frankie. And I do have to give Sullivan credit that he has co-written some other good songs with guys like Eddie Money, Robin Mcauley and others. But again, his best songs were written with Peterik.