Reach or Empires

[Journey/Survivor]

I would say it's pretty close to a tie for me. In many ways I like Empires better, but Reach has Sullivan and Droubay on it, so that's a positive there for me.

I myself have never raved about Reach, it's my least favorite Survivor album. I know that Jimi had originally intended to use "Give Me The Word" on a solo album, and to me it sounds a lot like some of the songs that are on Empires. GMTW is reminiscent of a few of the Empires songs like "Run From The Thunder" "First Day Of Love" and "A Dream To Far."

For me, GMTW is THE sole killer track from Reach. Frankly, I think JJ sang his best on that one. The rest perhaps a tad bit underwhelming than his actual level, IMO. GMTW as also got Frankie with his scorching guitar. Which is more of a plus for me, compared to Empires.

My two favorites off of Reach are GMTW and FMS.

Yes, Frankie's guitar playing on GMTW is awesome.

[MarcelJordan]

My two favorites off of Reach are GMTW and FMS.

Yes, Frankie's guitar playing on GMTW is awesome.

It does help, that Frankie's guitar style is not like others. He's really got a signature sound and you can tell whether its him OR someone trying to mimic him (and doesn't really succeed,IMO). Forget the speed and things connected to that. Its rather there is a emotional sound to it, it drags me in like no other guitarist. Perhaps Schon comes close

[finalfight]

Empires all the way. It beats Reach in every area except maybe cover art. Fantastic production, beautiful and inspirational songs and double J on world beating form.

[Red13JoePa]

For me, GMTW is THE sole killer track from Reach. Frankly, I think JJ sang his best on that one.

My two favorites off of Reach are GMTW and FMS.

Yes, Frankie's guitar playing on GMTW is awesome.

Gimme The World is a top-drawer Survivor track.

Love Sullivan's dirty guitarts on that one. What a sick song.

[Slander]

Empires all the way. It beats Reach in every area except maybe cover art. Fantastic production, beautiful and inspirational songs and double J on world beating form.

Gimme A Break. Let's seperate the fantasy from reality here. I guess Frankie Sullivan could have thrown away 3 live tracks on REACH. Added a soundtrack song like JJ did with "I'm Always Here." Then I guess FS and Survivor could have covered some songs from other bands like JJ did with "Calling America" and "My Love Is Alive." I have one question for you all who throw the word masterpiece around when it comes to EMPIRES: WHERE'S THE BEEF? Simply Put REACH is a better produced album with very little filler and it's not padded with bs. Empires is more listenable I will agree. Survivor took some chances with songs like HOME on REACH. I don't like the song but I respect the gamble. What friggin originality is on EMPIRES? Oh yeah wasn't the song EMPIRES originally planned for Too Hot Too Sleep. Wow EMPIRES is getting weaker and weaker as I type.

[Red13JoePa]

I have one question for you all who throw the word masterpiece around when it comes to EMPIRES

Who did that?

[Slander]

I have one question for you all who throw the word masterpiece around when it comes to EMPIRES

Who did that?

Trust me it's been done! Secondly I'm even guilty of this. I think we throw the words masterpiece and great around to the point where they don't mean a whole lot anymore. By the way REACH sounds friggin great. Not my favorite record but the production and sound is great. Frankie love him or hate him makes for a great sounding album. Now who exactly was the producer of Empires? And what was his body of work? I'm sorry I will take the productions skills of one Mr. Frankie Sullivan anyday. If I sound like a jerk I'm sorry but I'm sick of the revisionist history on this board about REACH.

[Red13JoePa]

Who revised history on this board about Reach?

Many on here were lukewarm on it when they got it and still are.

I dug it a lot when I got it and still do.


I also don't see this board as anywhere NEAR a Jamison cheerleading board. In fact, I'd submit that the majority of fans who post here prefer Bickler but it seems like you're insinuating that since the entire board loves Jamison and hates Sullivan, everybody changed their sky-high opinion of Reach when Jamison left/got canned.

[Slander]

Who revised history on this board about Reach?

Many on here were lukewarm on it when they got it and still are.

I dug it a lot when I got it and still do.


I also don't see this board as anywhere NEAR a Jamison cheerleading board. In fact, I'd submit that the majority of fans who post here prefer Bickler but it seems like you're insinuating that since the entire board loves Jamison and hates Sullivan, everybody changed their sky-high opinion of Reach when Jamison left/got canned.

I don't see anyone cheerleading Red. This is more of a discussion of the merits of REACH vis-a-vis Empires. I have nothing against JJ just prefer REACH over Empires. Although Jamo's vocals are not up to par on Reach as they were on Empires.

[Red13JoePa]

I have nothing against JJ

[Jeremy Holiday]

deleted

[Red13JoePa]

Where's the beef?

Evidently it's with you, against those who profess to enjoy Empires more than Reach.

[Slander]

Where's the beef?

Evidently it's with you, against those who profess to enjoy Empires more than Reach.

Touchet Red but when I say beef I mean substance. I just would like people to be somewhat objective and not use the word masterpiece in regards to an album of 2 covers, 3 live tracks, a sountrack cut, and another song that was meant for another album. It would seem to me we are lowering the bar quite a bit if we are calling Empires a "Masterpiece." Listen there are some tracks I really like on the album. "Cry Tough" kicks serious ass.

[Jeremy Holiday]

deleted

[Jeremy Holiday]

deleted

[Jeremy Holiday]

deleted

[Eyeof]

To say Reach contains little "filler" is pretty amusing...

[IngoK]

To say Reach contains little "filler" is pretty amusing...

[Slander]

To say Reach contains little "filler" is pretty amusing...

Okay I where's the filler? FS doesn't put out albums with fillers. Nor does he need to with his catalog of songs to pull from.

[Franky]

Definetely "Empires" has much more of everything .... Better Production, Songwriting, Harmonies and so on, .... "Reach" was such a dissapointment to me

[Slander]

Definetely "Empires" has much more of everything .... Better Production, Songwriting, Harmonies and so on, .... "Reach" was such a dissapointment to me

You are joking right? Songwriting? Wow. So just what songs did JJ right on the thing?

[Jeremy Holiday]

deleted

[Jeremy Holiday]

deleted

[Andrew]

To say Reach contains little "filler" is pretty amusing...

Okay I where's the filler? FS doesn't put out albums with fillers. Nor does he need to with his catalog of songs to pull from.

Reach is an average album - in terms of what is expected and has been seen in the past from Survivor. Still better than many, but average in the terms of what is should have been.

Frankie should not have been singing on the record - but we know there we issues with him and JJ in the studio. And the record is too ballad heavy.

And the variances in perfoamnces betwee songs gives the record an unbalanced feel. The vocals are at times smooth as silk, other times rough and raw. Same goes for the general sonics of the record.

Someone should have worked with Frankie and JJ to get the best out of both of them. Someone to talk tough and cut to the chase. There were at least 3 or 4 fillers on Reach - sad to say.
And one of the bets songs was sung by Frankie, gving it a distinctly non-Survivorish sound (Talkin About Love).

Other fillers - Home / Rhythm Of Your Heart (no need for this to be included) / Half Of My Heart.

I stand by my review of 2006: http://www.melodicrock.com/reviews/survivor-reach.p3

[Journey/Survivor]

My complaints about Reach are...

Too many ballads.
Jim Peterik's songwriting is badly missed. I know he did co-write 2 or 3 of the songs, but the album would have been better had he been a co-writer on all of the songs.
IMO so-so production. I think that Frankie is a great producer overall, but I think he has done better on other albums that he has produced in the past. As was already mentioned, the drums don't sound as good as normal for a Survivor album. Marc's drumming is still great, but the production isn't as good for the drums on Reach.

I also like the original demos of "Fire Makes Steel" and "Nevertheless" better than the versions that wound up being on Reach.

And whereas I still somewhat like the song "Home," I wish they hadn't gone with a Country sound on it or any of their other songs.

I hope that if they do make another album (and I hope that they do!) that it is more in the style of Too Hot To Sleep or Caught In The Game.

[Andrew]

IMO so-so production. I think that Frankie is a great producer overall, but I think he has done better on other albums that he has produced in the past. As was already mentioned, the drums don't sound as good as normal for a Survivor album. Marc's drumming is still great, but the production isn't as good for the drums on Reach.

Robin McAuley's solo album and the last great Edddie Money album (both produced by Frankie) had a much fatter and hard hitting crunch. GREAT sounding records...both of them.

[MarcelJordan]

IMO so-so production. I think that Frankie is a great producer overall, but I think he has done better on other albums that he has produced in the past. As was already mentioned, the drums don't sound as good as normal for a Survivor album. Marc's drumming is still great, but the production isn't as good for the drums on Reach.

Robin McAuley's solo album and the last great Edddie Money album (both produced by Frankie) had a much fatter and hard hitting crunch. GREAT sounding records...both of them.

Once again, I hear the greatness of RM's record. Jealous as ever

[IngoK]

Not sure if I would count Talkin bout Love as a filler (never expected that Frankie sound so good-on Nevertheless he sounds in my opinion terrible) but it shouldn`t be on the Album (same as Nevertheless). The Track itself is great but suit better on a Frankie Soloalbum.

Other Songs I count as fillers are Home, I don't and Rhythm of your heart.

[IngoK]

Once again, I hear the greatness of RM's record. Jealous as ever

I also didn`t had the chance to hear this Album till now...

[Eyeof]

"There were at least 3 or 4 fillers on Reach - sad to say. "

Well Slander...as Andrew said, there is your answer...

And get over it dude, there are fillers on more than one Survivor album (You ever heard the song FreeLance?). I can't name a lot of bands where there isn't at times...And stop all this BS with "with all the material Sullivan has..."bla, bla...

Do you ever actually stop to listen to yourself? If they have so much material, then why one album every 20 years? And that album was full of a bunch of remakes from the FMS demos and a bunch of - well - as ANDREW said, fillers.