State Of The Band Address:

[jrnyman28]

I was watching the apprentice the other night and I'm beginning to think Red is OMAROSA!

How would you describe Omarosa?

[Slander]

Red certainly tends to point out what the band is NOT doing....
And people show their support or devotion to bands in different ways. Yours is no more right than others.
S But you have actually made Red's point that he does love the band since he IS still talking about them even though they do so little for so long.

Red tends to talk about what they are not doing? That's the understatement of the year. Listen any idiot can name call. I hardly call that support. Jrny gee I'm sorry I don't want people to name call and talk gutter trash. If that's a crime than I'm guilty. And by the way I'm not dictating anything but merely making a clear distinction between how some of support the band and its members in a positive way while others support it by tearing it down.

[Slander]

I was watching the apprentice the other night and I'm beginning to think Red is OMAROSA!

How would you describe Omarosa?

Angry.

[Red13JoePa]

I never said I wasn't critical, but you will never hear me call JP or JJ names. It isn't going to happen. Some of the criticism of FS is down right vile. I was watching the apprentice the other night and I'm beginning to think Red is OMAROSA!

Er, hello Caption Sanctimonious. Although it wasn't a "name call" which you incessantly bitch about, and although it WAS in keeping with your passive/aggressive approach to bashing because you name no name you downright viley made fun of Jamison's shape in this thread.

That's as low as any of the critiques we lay on your fitness guru idle idol.

Again I bring to your attention that the REASON you had to suffer through your worst nightmare and see the Jimi Jamison band that time is because Survivor up and cancelled the show. This by the way, is VERY much in keeping with Jamison's point of depriving the bandmemebers of money making opportunities by both turning down and outright pulling no-shows for gigs. .
And YOU didn't KNOW McSurvivor wasn't showing until you GOT there, yet for some reason they get a pass from you for that, while the guy who bothered to show up and put on a concert got bashed. Why?

[Slander]

Er, hello Caption Sanctimonious.
That's as low as any of the critiques we lay on your fitness guru idle idol.

Red I am far from perfect. Many flaws but I try to treat people decently and give them the benefit of the doubt. As far as JJ's fitness routine: I really don't care but was merely stating Robin has a hell of a lot more energy on stage.

[jrnyman28]

I was watching the apprentice the other night and I'm beginning to think Red is OMAROSA!

How would you describe Omarosa?

Angry.

That's all? Here's the rub. MOST poeple consider Omarosa a mean, spiteful, angry, vindictive bitch.
Maybe you don't but if that is the general consensus than by you comparing Red to Omarosa it is the same as you calling Red those names.

[Red13JoePa]

Dave28, there's no need for the intercession.
You know me. You know that I could give a rip if someone calls me names or posts whatever about me, that I will either opt to return the favor, laugh if it's funny, or even both. Or maybe just not even comment at all.

But I will not get feelings hurt and go holier-than-thou with feigned indignation, as SLANDER invariably does.

If he wants to call me Amorosa, and do it for a good while (like me, Axe, EyeOf and 7Wishes called Slander "Kevin" for a some time) I'm all for it if others get a boot out of it. It may liven the board up a little.

[jrnyman28]

Listen any idiot can name call.

As you just did.

I hardly call that support.

My point is, who are you to say? It is up to the individual and s/he can express themselves anyway s/he chooses.

Jrny gee I'm sorry I don't want people to name call and talk gutter trash. If that's a crime than I'm guilty.

That's fine if you don't like it. But it is not up to you to change it. You have made it known, now let it go.

And by the way I'm not dictating

By continually beating a dead horse about it you are attempting to dictate your acceptable rules of procedure. Not your call.






Listen, I am a VERY casual Survivor fan. In fact, I recently went out and collected all the Survivor catalog because of reading this board and hearing people who are passionate about the band. I have yet to listen to it all but have come to the conclusion that while all but one hit I knew were from the JJ era (and therefore all my memories) I can honestly say that I prefer the DB era. But I am simply getting tired of all this peripheral bullshit interfering. Red has his feelings, Eyeof has his, and you have yours...no problem. But quit telling them the way they express themseves is wrong. You have even agreed with some of Red's points but then you go right back to dusting it up over semantics. You said semantics is what life is all about....well this is not my life. I hope it is not yours either. This is a message board. It is a message board about a band who is no longer relevant in today's musical landscape. Lighten up.

[Slander]

Listen, I am a VERY casual Survivor fan. In fact, I recently went out and collected all the Survivor catalog because of reading this board and hearing people who are passionate about the band. I have yet to listen to it all but have come to the conclusion that while all but one hit I knew were from the JJ era (and therefore all my memories) I can honestly say that I prefer the DB era. But I am simply getting tired of all this peripheral bullshit interfering. Red has his feelings, Eyeof has his, and you have yours...no problem. But quit telling them the way they express themseves is wrong. You have even agreed with some of Red's points but then you go right back to dusting it up over semantics. You said semantics is what life is all about....well this is not my life. I hope it is not yours either. This is a message board. It is a message board about a band who is no longer relevant in today's musical landscape. Lighten up.

Amen. Thanks for making MY POINT. I have made time and time again. We aren't discussing DARFUR! My point has always been that the level of hostility leveled against the band on this board is disproportional to the issues being discussed. Why the anger? Why the hostility? It's stupid. If that is name calling so be it.

[Slander]

I hardly call that support.

My point is, who are you to say? It is up to the individual and s/he can express themselves anyway s/he chooses.
[.

Yeah some husbands beat the crap out of their wives and are verbally abusive. Those husbands call it LOVE. Yeah that sounds constructive to me. Yeah your right. Abuse is constructive. What nonsense.

[jrnyman28]

I hardly call that support.

My point is, who are you to say? It is up to the individual and s/he can express themselves anyway s/he chooses.
[.

Yeah some husbands beat the crap out of their wives and are verbally abusive. Those husbands call it LOVE. Yeah that sounds constructive to me. Yeah your right. Abuse is constructive. What nonsense.

Yet again, a comparison that is totally irrelevant. This is not near as serious as that.

[jrnyman28]

Amen. Thanks for making MY POINT. I have made time and time again. We aren't discussing DARFUR! My point has always been that the level of hostility leveled against the band on this board is disproportional to the issues being discussed. Why the anger? Why the hostility? It's stupid. If that is name calling so be it.

Apparantly you missed MY point that all this peripheral bullshit is interfering with my enjoyment of this board and this band.

I have survived some of the worst flame wars, I have been involved and on the receiving end. I have been a part of the online Journey community for 8 years. If you think what you see here is bad you should have seen the vitrol being spewed when Augeri came on board. It was after then that I realized...this is just not that serious. It is about the music. It can be about the band, their actions, their decisions and their inactivity. Quit making it personal by turing it to being about the person posting instead of the points posted...

[axecrew]

Hey Slander....When you see Grove ask him about his phone call to st. sullivan ......ask him what happened when he told sullivan he was taking the $ gig,If he has any stones in his pants he'll tell you that st. sullivan yelled at him,denied him the chance to play that texas gig and then told him he coudn't quit on him because he was fired. Then the saint slammed down the phone.
Ask him about being lied to about that actual number of shows they're going to play this year(About 30). Ask him about new Survivor music coming out...he'll tell you there is none,if he tells the truth.

[Slander]

Amen. Thanks for making MY POINT. I have made time and time again. We aren't discussing DARFUR! My point has always been that the level of hostility leveled against the band on this board is disproportional to the issues being discussed. Why the anger? Why the hostility? It's stupid. If that is name calling so be it.

Apparantly you missed MY point that all this peripheral bullshit is interfering with my enjoyment of this board and this band.

I have survived some of the worst flame wars, I have been involved and on the receiving end. I have been a part of the online Journey community for 8 years. If you think what you see here is bad you should have seen the vitrol being spewed when Augeri came on board. It was after then that I realized...this is just not that serious. It is about the music. It can be about the band, their actions, their decisions and their inactivity. Quit making it personal by turing it to being about the person posting instead of the points posted...

Quit making it personal? Let me know when your screenname is mention in some bullshit pole or you have an actual thread about you. I've had both. It doesn't bother me. I don't have any issues with Red or Eye. None. It's merely argumentation of the points posted. How can I have something against peole I don't know? For all I know they are great guys. I however think it is cowardly to call people names like FS and then Red and Eye seem so shocked when there points are refuted.

[Red13JoePa]

Listen, I am a VERY casual Survivor fan. In fact, I recently went out and collected all the Survivor catalog because of reading this board and hearing people who are passionate about the band.

That's awesome, dude.
You're in for a treat with this catalogue.

Even Andrew J McNiece, who's objectivity and journalistic ethics have been questioned on this very board (by Kevin ), has posted in no less a place than the Journey forum that not only does Survivor's catalogue compare favorably to that of Journey but in fact has even LESS filler.

[jrnyman28]

Quit making it personal? Let me know when your screenname is mention in some bullshit pole or you have an actual thread about you. I've had both. It doesn't bother me.

First off, I have been the subject of MANY personal attacks. As I stated above, the Journey flame-wars were near legendary and I was heavily active then. I learned a lot.

Second, you say it doesn't bother you, yet your actions say otherwise. That first sentance says otherwise.

I don't have any issues with Red or Eye. None. It's merely argumentation of the points posted. How can I have something against peole I don't know? For all I know they are great guys. I however think it is cowardly to call people names like FS and then Red and Eye seem so shocked when there points are refuted.

But so often it is NOT about the "points". That is my beef and that is the only reason I spoke up today. It is frustrating because so much of your energy seems wasted posting about people nad how they post, not what they post. And again, I know from which I speak. I spent a lot of time trying to clean up the Journey forums, trying to get people to quit the excessive abuse, the personal attacks, the vulgarity. What you have here on this board is better than I could have asked for on the old Journey boards.

[Slander]

But so often it is NOT about the "points". That is my beef and that is the only reason I spoke up today. It is frustrating because so much of your energy seems wasted posting about people nad how they post, not what they post. And again, I know from which I speak. I spent a lot of time trying to clean up the Journey forums, trying to get people to quit the excessive abuse, the personal attacks, the vulgarity. What you have here on this board is better than I could have asked for on the old Journey boards.

Hey 28 let me know when I have used vulgarities? I don't. I ask you again: Have you ever had a personal thread about you? Have you ever had a bs poll about you like the one that currently exists on this board. Yeah I'm the issue 28! I sure am. I love the band and support all the endeavers of current and former members. Yup I'm the problem. The bottom line is that you and others can't handle dissent from those who love the band in it's current form. It's a damn shame. I thought this was a Survivor board. Don't be a hypocrite. Augeri was savaged on your BB. Now you are letting the same crap happen to Robin.

[jrnyman28]

Hey 28 let me know when I have used vulgarities? I don't.

I never said YOU did!

I ask you again: Have you ever had a personal thread about you? Have you ever had a bs poll about you like the one that currently exists on this board. Yeah I'm the issue 28! I sure am.

Can you read? I already explained that I have indeed been on the receiving end of the worst personal attacks, abuse, lies, etc. Have you ever had someone going around internet sites you or people you know post at posting a rumor that you have cancer? Have you ever been accused of abusing your children based on your support of a band? Have you ever been attacked as a sexual deviant who enjoys the practices of many obscene acts in threads that include rather pornographic photos? I have.

I love the band and support all the endeavers of current and former members.

That's cool.

Yup I'm the problem. The bottom line is that you and others can't handle dissent from those who love the band in it's current form. It's a damn shame.

Wait a sec. I can't handle dissent from those who love the band in it's current form? I haven't even really talked about the band in ANY form. I have been talking about your talent for moving away from the points of the post to the 'ethics' of the post. You deflect, just as you are doing now.

I thought this was a Survivor board. Don't be a hypocrite. Augeri was savaged on your BB. Now you are letting the same crap happen to Robin.

This is not being savaged.
This is nothing.
For the record I agree completely with Survivor's right to move on with a new singer. That does not mean I have to agree that it was the best choice. And until there is new music with the new choice I have no way to make that opinion. Because RM does not sound like JJ or DB live so that is not a point to judge with. If Survivor only plans to tour than I think the new vocalist should sound similar to their catalog. Only if they are willing to record new music does a new sound become feasible IMO. That is the EXACT same point I have made with Journey all along. JSS sounded nothing like Perry or Augeri yet had the band made a new CD it would have been completely acceptable to change direction in the vocal department. But if they had only toured, JSS would not be the right choice IMO. As it turns out, the band changed their mind, found someone else who sounds similar to Perry and Augeri AND they are recording new material.

Now, what are Survivor doing again?

[Red13JoePa]

I ask you again: Have you ever had a personal thread about you? Have you ever had a bs poll about you like the one that currently exists on this board.

Oh get over yourself Slander.

Even you have to admit that in EyeOf's poll, the option with you morphing into Frankie through sheer force of will being the leading votegetter is funny.

[jrnyman28]

Even you have to admit that in EyeOf's poll, the option with you morphing into Frankie through sheer force of will being the leading votegetter is funny.

And hardly seems offensive given Slander's respect for the man.

[Slander]

Even you have to admit that in EyeOf's poll, the option with you morphing into Frankie through sheer force of will being the leading votegetter is funny.

And hardly seems offensive given Slander's respect for the man.

Never said it was offensive. Just asked you a simple question 28: Have you ever had personal thread about you or a poll. Just asking a simple question.

[jrnyman28]

Even you have to admit that in EyeOf's poll, the option with you morphing into Frankie through sheer force of will being the leading votegetter is funny.

And hardly seems offensive given Slander's respect for the man.

Never said it was offensive. Just asked you a simple question 28: Have you ever had personal thread about you or a poll. Just asking a simple question.

Asked multiple times, answered multiple times...
And you have been using it as an example of unacceptable behaviour...not a huge leap to think you might have been offended by it.

[Red13JoePa]

Both Dave28 AND me, as we were both on the same side have been on the business end of a MULTITUDE of personal attacks, lasting months during tapegate when the Journey forum liked like Bierut in 1985 it was a lonely road if you stuck up for Steve Augeri.
Lecturing Journeyman28 on personal attacks, compared to the innocuous barbs you endure (and return) is folly.

[Slander]

Even you have to admit that in EyeOf's poll, the option with you morphing into Frankie through sheer force of will being the leading votegetter is funny.

And hardly seems offensive given Slander's respect for the man.

Never said it was offensive. Just asked you a simple question 28: Have you ever had personal thread about you or a poll. Just asking a simple question.

Asked multiple times, answered multiple times...
And you have been using it as an example of unacceptable behaviour...not a huge leap to think you might have been offended by it.

Not offended by it all but find it amusing. You don't want me to take things personally but yet there was a thread and a poll about me. Your argumentation is inconsistent at best.

[jrnyman28]

Not offended by it all but find it amusing. You don't want me to take things personally but yet there was a thread and a poll about me. Your argumentation is inconsistent at best.

Your perception is inconsistent. You still take it all too personally and by continually bringing up that poll it proves it. Let me try to to spell this out a little: D o n ' t t a k e i t p e r s o n a l l y. And don't worry about other people who try to make it personal.

And thank you for acknowledging that I have indeed answered your question concerning MY experience of personal attacks (of which the jabs directed at you cannot compare) on the internet.

[Slander]

Both Dave28 AND me, as we were both on the same side have been on the business end of a MULTITUDE of personal attacks, lasting months during tapegate when the Journey forum liked like Bierut in 1985 it was a lonely road if you stuck up for Steve Augeri.
Lecturing Journeyman28 on personal slights, compared to the innocuous barbs you endure (and return) is folly.

Then let's not start to do an Augeri on Robin. I sense that's where this is heading.

[Red13JoePa]

Fine, but do keep in mind that your appearance on this board, which can be verified, came right at the time of Jamison's ouster and you trash talked Jamison fans over that. Your first posts were mocking jamison about playing nightclubs and pouring drinks.

So practiceth what thou preacheth.

[Slander]

Fine, but do keep in mind that your appearance on this board, which can be verified, came right at the time of Jamison's ouster and you trash talked Jamison fans over that. Your first posts were mocking jamison about playing nightclubs and pouring drinks.

So practiceth what thou preacheth.

Hey let me know when you guys have anything good to say about Robin. Please. I've had nothing but praise for JJ's talents and I've stated that I think he is an overall good guy. I just don't think he walks on water. I look forward to JJ's project with JP. You guys haven't even given Robin a chance. Seriously let me know when you have had anything good to say. I mean anything. Like I said you practice whaat you preach. You are not going to go Augeri on Robin. Ain't going to happen.

[Slander]

For the record I agree completely with Survivor's right to move on with a new singer. That does not mean I have to agree that it was the best choice. And until there is new music with the new choice I have no way to make that opinion.

Hey Dave,

It's not like there is Frankie-Robin music out there. They did a whole album! It's called Business As Usual. Why don't you give it a spin. At least then you might be able to educate yourself on how they would sound. Secondly there have been boots of Robin on this very board as the lead singer of Survivor. You can go to paradiseartists.com and hear Robin's take on FMS, REACH, and EOTT. There is stuff out there.

[Slander]

For the record I agree completely with Survivor's right to move on with a new singer. That does not mean I have to agree that it was the best choice. And until there is new music with the new choice I have no way to make that opinion.

Hey Dave,

It's not like there isn't Frankie-Robin music out there. They did a whole album! It's called Business As Usual. Why don't you give it a spin. At least then you might be able to educate yourself on how they would sound. Secondly there have been boots of Robin on this very board as the lead singer of Survivor. You can go to paradiseartists.com and hear Robin's take on FMS, REACH, and EOTT. There is stuff out there.