JJ announces he has rejoined Survivor

[silvergirl66]

I'm not sure why everyone dislikes "Reach", I liked it alot!

[Yoda]

I'm not sure why everyone dislikes "Reach", I liked it alot!

It certainly wasn't Vital Signs, but Reach had some good songs on there. I can pick out at least four songs from that album that I can listen to on a regular basis: Fire Makes Steel, Reach, Seconds Away, Rhythm of Your Heart, and well, a fifth one, Give Me The Word.

[Slander]

I'm not sure why everyone dislikes "Reach", I liked it alot!

I liked Reach. There was some disappointing filler, but there are some songs on that record that stand toe to toe with any in the Survivor catalog.

[RockInDetroit]

I'm not sure why everyone dislikes "Reach", I liked it alot!

I agree, I hear everyone gushing all over Crossroad Moments. Was that cd really better than Reach? My opinion, no.

[DavidWT]

I'm not sure why everyone dislikes "Reach", I liked it alot!

I agree, I hear everyone gushing all over Crossroad Moments. Was that cd really better than Reach? My opinion, no.

I definitely like CM better than Reach. Yeah, both albums have some throw-away tracks, but CM has more tracks to begin with, so even when you scrape away the crap, you're left with a decent number of solid songs. When you scrape away the crap from Reach, you're left with about an EP's worth of music.
One of the big problems with Reach, for me, is the production quality. Even when the songs are good musically, they suffer from bad production. The drums sound as if somebody gave Marc a few paperbags to bang on. And JJ's vocals are clearly better on CM than they are on Reach.

Having said all that, I don't hate Reach, but I did find it disappointing after waiting so long for a new Survivor album. It does not come close to the albums that preceded it. I was listening to "Too Hot To Sleep" the other day, and the difference in quality between that album and Reach is huge.

So, anyway, has anyone started taking bets yet on how long it'll be before JJ and FS kill each other?

[Slander]

So, anyway, has anyone started taking bets yet on how long it'll be before JJ and FS kill each other?

So what should we start the over/under at? 6 days/60 days/6 months/6 years? Seriously, I hope this works out for both FS, JJ and the band. More importantly the loyal fan base that has stood by this band through thick and thin deserve nothing but the best and not a bunch of bs or false promises from all sides. I am concerned though. I just went back and listened to the interview where JJ said he was coming back and he talks about A LOT OF SOLO TOURING and hoping to tour the Philippines with Bobby Kimball. If the reunion is all about just playing the "hits" for 30 dates a year, count me out! I'm done.

[lordreo]

I'm not sure why everyone dislikes "Reach", I liked it alot!

I only like 2 songs off that album: Fire Makes Steel and strangely Talkin' 'bout Love

Does anybody know what the deal was with Talkin' 'bout Love? How did that come to be?

[Slander]

[quote="lordreo"
Does anybody know what the deal was with Talkin' 'bout Love? How did that come to be?[/quote]

I've read multiple interviews where FS said it was written for JJ to sing but he didn't want to! JJ said it was too "pop." I think it's a killer track and the best song of of REACH. Frankie does a great vocal on it!

[Andrew]

I'm not sure why everyone dislikes "Reach", I liked it alot!

I liked Reach. There was some disappointing filler, but there are some songs on that record that stand toe to toe with any in the Survivor catalog.

Half good, half crap.

[Andrew]

I'm not sure why everyone dislikes "Reach", I liked it alot!

I agree, I hear everyone gushing all over Crossroad Moments. Was that cd really better than Reach? My opinion, no.

Easily. By miles...

[Andrew]

Having said all that, I don't hate Reach, but I did find it disappointing after waiting so long for a new Survivor album.

Exactly. It sounded rushed, but how should that be after such a wait?

[Slander]

I'm not sure why everyone dislikes "Reach", I liked it alot!

I liked Reach. There was some disappointing filler, but there are some songs on that record that stand toe to toe with any in the Survivor catalog.

Half good, half crap.

Hi Andrew, I would agree, but there are some individual songs that are very strong on REACH! Very strong! REACH, GIMME THE WORD, FMS, TALKIN' Bout LOVE, SECONDS AWAY! I did not like Home but I can respect both FS and JJ trying something a little different.

[DavidWT]

[quote="lordreo"
Does anybody know what the deal was with Talkin' 'bout Love? How did that come to be?

I've read multiple interviews where FS said it was written for JJ to sing but he didn't want to! JJ said it was too "pop." I think it's a killer track and the best song of of REACH. Frankie does a great vocal on it![/quote]

Yeah, that's what I heard, too. But how could JJ consider anything "too pop" after singing "Is This Love"? It doesn't get much more bubblegum than that.

[MarcelJordan]

Yeah, that's what I heard, too. But how could JJ consider anything "too pop" after singing "Is This Love"? It doesn't get much more bubblegum than that.

JJ may have forgotten that they chose him back in '84 because he had the voice for pop.

MJ

[DavidWT]

This discussion caused me to listen to "Reach" again this morning, for the first time in quite a while.

The album gets off to a solid start. "Reach" is a good track, and so are FMS, and Seconds Away. I actually even like "Nevertheless," despite the fact that it seems most people dislike it. Things kind of fall apart a bit after that, though.

"One More Chance" isn't BAD, but it's forgettable, and it's not really what I'd consider a Survivor song.

"Give Me The Word" again isn't bad, but I'd hardly rank it among my favorite Survivor songs. It sounds more like something from JJ's Empires album, which was a decent album, but not up to par with the classic Survivor stuff.

"Rhythm Of Your Heart" is a bit too corny for me. I could picture a boy band singing it, especially when those backing vocals come in towards the end.

"I Don't" is a classic example of filler. Again, it's not a bad track, but I always forget it's there, and it doesn't really fit with what I'd expect/hope to hear on a Survivor album. It has some impressive acoustic guitar work, though, I'll give it that.

"Half Of My Heart"-- I'm ashamed to say that I actually kind of like this one. It's total cheese, and the album really needed some more rock songs instead of this, but for whatevever reason, it doesn't bother me.

"Talking 'bout Love"-- Finally things get genuinely good again. This is the boost the album desperately needed. I can't really picture JJ singing it. Sounds more like a Dave song to me.

"Don't Give Up"-- Meh. Yet again, it's not a bad song, but it just doesn't do much for me either way.

"Home"-- One of, if not THE, worst song to ever close a Survivor album.

So the bottom line, for me, is that "Reach" is not a bad album. But it could have / should have been much better, especially considering the fact that a lot of the stuff on the FMS demo was actually better than the stuff that ended up on "Reach." There were just some poor decisions made in regards to song choices, and the weak production quality didn't help matters. If I remember correctly, I think Frankie produced it himself, and maybe he bit off more than he should have. Bringing in a more experienced producer would have improved the sound of the album, plus the producer probably would have helped filter out some of the weaker songs.

[Slander]

[ But how could JJ consider anything "too pop" after singing "Is This Love"? It doesn't get much more bubblegum than that.

I couldn't agree more. After Vital Signs, I got many of my male "rocker" friends into Survivor but when Is This Love came out, they were like WTF!!!! They thought Survivor had become Glass Tiger or Cutting Crew.

[Yoda]

[ But how could JJ consider anything "too pop" after singing "Is This Love"? It doesn't get much more bubblegum than that.

I couldn't agree more. After Vital Signs, I got many of my male "rocker" friends into Survivor but when Is This Love came out, they were like WTF!!!! They thought Survivor had become Glass Tiger or Cutting Crew.

Yeah, I have to agree that I wasn't a very big fan of "IS This Love". There were so many other great songs on that album that didn't have as much "pop" appeal. I'm thinking that at that point of the 80's, some of these bands like Survivor or Journey were trying to become more pop rock to be commercially successful instead of heading into the "hair band" sound that would have kept some muscle in the music AND would have still brought them commercial success.

[kgdjpubs]

[quote="lordreo"
Does anybody know what the deal was with Talkin' 'bout Love? How did that come to be?

I've read multiple interviews where FS said it was written for JJ to sing but he didn't want to! JJ said it was too "pop." I think it's a killer track and the best song of of REACH. Frankie does a great vocal on it!

Yeah, that's what I heard, too. But how could JJ consider anything "too pop" after singing "Is This Love"? It doesn't get much more bubblegum than that.[/quote]


two words....Popular Girl. The production on WSC was pop, but the songs weren't nearly as much. There is a version of JJ doing Is This Love about '97 on a bootleg where he really stripped the song back and it was a lot more edgy.

[RockInDetroit]

This discussion caused me to listen to "Reach" again this morning, for the first time in quite a while.

The album gets off to a solid start. "Reach" is a good track, and so are FMS, and Seconds Away. I actually even like "Nevertheless," despite the fact that it seems most people dislike it. Things kind of fall apart a bit after that, though.

"One More Chance" isn't BAD, but it's forgettable, and it's not really what I'd consider a Survivor song.

"Give Me The Word" again isn't bad, but I'd hardly rank it among my favorite Survivor songs. It sounds more like something from JJ's Empires album, which was a decent album, but not up to par with the classic Survivor stuff.

"Rhythm Of Your Heart" is a bit too corny for me. I could picture a boy band singing it, especially when those backing vocals come in towards the end.

"I Don't" is a classic example of filler. Again, it's not a bad track, but I always forget it's there, and it doesn't really fit with what I'd expect/hope to hear on a Survivor album. It has some impressive acoustic guitar work, though, I'll give it that.

"Half Of My Heart"-- I'm ashamed to say that I actually kind of like this one. It's total cheese, and the album really needed some more rock songs instead of this, but for whatevever reason, it doesn't bother me.

"Talking 'bout Love"-- Finally things get genuinely good again. This is the boost the album desperately needed. I can't really picture JJ singing it. Sounds more like a Dave song to me.

"Don't Give Up"-- Meh. Yet again, it's not a bad song, but it just doesn't do much for me either way.

"Home"-- One of, if not THE, worst song to ever close a Survivor album.

So the bottom line, for me, is that "Reach" is not a bad album. But it could have / should have been much better, especially considering the fact that a lot of the stuff on the FMS demo was actually better than the stuff that ended up on "Reach." There were just some poor decisions made in regards to song choices, and the weak production quality didn't help matters. If I remember correctly, I think Frankie produced it himself, and maybe he bit off more than he should have. Bringing in a more experienced producer would have improved the sound of the album, plus the producer probably would have helped filter out some of the weaker songs.

You gotta remember with Reach that Jimi pretty much walked out on the band during the recording of the Cd. So keep that in mind when reviewing it. That being said, I think it isn’t bad. I think it could’ve and would’ve been better.
I personally liked it better than Crossroad Moments which many seem to praise. I think it’s time I bring both those cds back out again and compare. Honestly, I listened to Crossroad Moments less than two times. Should of given it more time. It just did not grab me.

[Mikele]

while I would have preferred Dave back in, it's of course a positive news. Anyhow, if it didn't put Survivor back on the map in 2006, why should it be different this time? I mean, the elements are the same, just a bit older and this really argues against this being a long-term project. And by the way, who is gonna assure us that a new record will really come out? I highly doubt that.

[Andrew]

I'm not sure why everyone dislikes "Reach", I liked it alot!

I liked Reach. There was some disappointing filler, but there are some songs on that record that stand toe to toe with any in the Survivor catalog.

Half good, half crap.

Hi Andrew, I would agree, but there are some individual songs that are very strong on REACH! Very strong!

Absolutely.

[Journey/Survivor]

IMO, "Fire Makes Steel" "Reach" and "Give Me The Word" rank up there with any of the songs on CM. But overall, I do think that CM is the better all around album.

[MrRockitRide]

If you combined the best songs from Reach and the various JJ and JP efforts from past few years, you could put together one great CD. The key ingredient is JP. His songs are the best. Sometimes I wonder if these guys actually listen to their own CDs before they release them.

[DavidWT]

If you combined the best songs from Reach and the various JJ and JP efforts from past few years, you could put together one great CD. The key ingredient is JP. His songs are the best. Sometimes I wonder if these guys actually listen to their own CDs before they release them.

I think the trick is to let JP write the songs, and then let FS come in and add some edge to them (and also remove some of the cheese from them.)

On a side note, has anyone else noticed that JP over-uses the cymbal crescendo as a way to start songs? I notice it on several songs on CM, as well as several POL songs. Think of a new intro, man!

[Slander]

I think the trick is to let JP write the songs, and then let FS come in and add some edge to them (and also remove some of the cheese from them.)
Think of a new intro, man!

My issue with JP is that he writes great HOOKS but doesn't know when to quit! He is a great songwriter but sometimes the music borders on camp in my opinion.

[DavidWT]

I think the trick is to let JP write the songs, and then let FS come in and add some edge to them (and also remove some of the cheese from them.)
Think of a new intro, man!

My issue with JP is that he writes great HOOKS but doesn't know when to quit! He is a great songwriter but sometimes the music borders on camp in my opinion.

Exactly, which is why I said FS needs to add some edge AND remove some of the cheese. JP lays down a great foundation, but it usually needs work.

[BARON BLOOD]

Together JP and FS form a perfect pair.....your explanations make total sense.....let's hope that one day they'll work together again......who knows !

[Mikele]

it would be freaking awesome

and IMO Reach is as solid as CM, although they do sound like two different bands, which in fact is a fact

[Mikele]

The thing that bothers me the most is that now that the announcement was made, at least 3-4 months will pass by before we will be updated on the next move...instead, we had a "worldwide tour" scream, which sounds as a joke right now.
Things that should be done if the band was seriously managed:

-totally new website with constant updates and band pics
-brand new record deal
-insert band classics in rotation on Virgin radios and other radio that keep pushing Bon Jovi
-selected pre-tour appearances in small size venues
-brand new single downloadable online
-vinyl re-releases of albums
-cancellation of JJ solo concerts for 2012
-tour package in the US with Journey in indoor arenas
-schedule festivals in Europe in summer 2012
-set a release date for new album prior to tour, no friggin delays

and many more...

[ForceInfinity]

My problem with JP songs as of late is that they are almost too predictable, either starting with cymbals leading into the music, or sometime of fade-in sound that leads into the music. But it causes the songs to sound somewhat same-ish after a while. It's almost like he needs to pair with another songwriter that provides a check against him like NS, JC, and SP did on each other.

So having him on board be good for Survivor. I'd suspect so since I know FS would provide that check on JP, and maybe even JJ although I don't see him as quite as proficient a song writer.