Might Wanna Rethink That MSG In The Setlist Thing:

[Red13JoePa]

From the front page of MR.com

"MICHAEL SCHENKER FAILS TO IMPRESS UK FANS:
Fallout from the MSG/Scorpions gig in Manchester, UK continues. This from UK journalist Dave Ling's website diary: "Compared to his elder sibling, who threw shapes and played the rock star to absolute perfection, Michael Schenker was an utter disgrace. He'd turned up at the site mid-morning with a bottle of Courvoisier cognac inside him. After an altercation during the soundcheck, Schenker threw his guitar across the stage, trying to hurt the agent who'd booked him for the show, before threatening not to perform. The rest of the day was spent in his portacabin, attempting to sleep things off. It didn't work. Excuse the language, but Schenker played like a complete c**t. Looking visibly glazed, he could scarely walk let alone play guitar. After 45 minutes of his allotted 90, having been booed and jeered throughout, Michael stumbled into the wings to the strains of the footie chant, 'You're @!#$ and you know you are.' Then, incredibly, he returned. There was a momentary improvement, but any thoughts that Schenker might get out of jail were rudely shot down during the ensuing half-hour. 'Ladies and gentlemen, this is fucking improvised but we do the best we can, okay?' slurred Michael before UFO's 'Too Hot To Handle' — a song he must've played a hundred thousand times before, the simple riff to which had suddenly become infinitely beyond his grasp. Believe me, the song 'On And On' had never felt more appropriate. Once it was all over, Michael and his brother Rudolf came to blows and the pair had to be separated by security. The word 'pathetic' doesn't even begin to cover it. It'll be interesting to see whether he makes it to Manchester or Hammersmith."

This from the site Noticeboard. From Andrew Davies: "I was there last night and I still cannot believe what I saw! Schenker was totally wasted, imagine someone acting like a drunk in a bad movie and you get some idea. He missed solos, lurched about the stage looking as if he was about to fall over and in fact for two songs virtually sat on his sad arse to play. I've been a fan for longer than I care to remember so I take no pleasure believe me. I was just glad when it stopped - he stopped, turned his back on the audience with no acknowledgement whatsoever and stumbled off. He even dared to stagger back on during the Scorpions set and Rudi was clearly not pleased. Again, he looked completely out of it.
As for the Scorpions, they gave us a great show (didn't expect anything less) - it's so easy to forget just how long the nucleus of the band have been playing together. Klaus Meine showed yet again what a great voice he still has, the rhythm section was tight and the guitars sounded excellent."
A short video of one of the "solos" can be seen at: youtube.com/watch?v=_vmo_ePVGGI.

[Slander]

Who cares. It's hardly a newsflash that MS has always had an alcohol problem. It doesn't take away from his abilities or talents. It's a damn shame really. It doesn't have anything to do with Robin so what's the fucking point. Good songs are good songs. I for one look forward to Robin put his own mark on Survivor with some songs from MSG.

[MarcelJordan]

Who cares. It's hardly a newsflash that MS has always had an alcohol problem. It doesn't take away from his abilities or talents. It's a damn shame really. It doesn't have anything to do with Robin so what's the fucking point. Good songs are good songs. I for one look forward to Robin put his own mark on Survivor with some songs from MSG.

Yeah, who cares. BUT as long as Michael deosn't decide to suddenly show up at a Survivor show.

[Red13JoePa]

I for one look forward to Robin put his own mark on Survivor with some songs from MSG.

That statement is a complete paradoxical oxymoron.

[Slander]

I for one look forward to Robin put his own mark on Survivor with some songs from MSG.

That statement is complete paradoxical oxymoron.

You didn't answer my question. What does MS behavior have to do with Robin singing MSG songs? This makes no sense. Why should it be re thought?

[Red13JoePa]

I for one look forward to Robin put his own mark on Survivor with some songs from MSG.

That statement is complete paradoxical oxymoron.

You didn't answer my question. What does MS behavior have to do with Robin singing MSG songs? This makes no sense. Why should it be re thought?

No more sense, I guess, than Robin making his McMark in Survivor by singing MSG songs with Survivor or MSG songs being in a Survivor setlist at all.

[Slander]

I for one look forward to Robin put his own mark on Survivor with some songs from MSG.

That statement is complete paradoxical oxymoron.

You didn't answer my question. What does MS behavior have to do with Robin singing MSG songs? This makes no sense. Why should it be re thought?

No more sense, I guess, than Robin making his McMark in Survivor by singing MSG songs with Survivor or MSG songs being in a Survivor setlist at all.

He can help by bringing in fans of his music as well. It's pretty simple. Once again why are we holding Robin responsible for MS destructive behavior? Sorry I just don't get it. You started the thread.

[Red13JoePa]

I'm not saying McCauley's responsible, just stating it may be a dumb idea (moreso) now.

If MSG's as famous the world over as YOU'RE always trying to spin then might it not be logical to forseefor some bad pub for the band when the thousands in each Survivor crowd who are familiar with the songs go, "Oh, yea this is the song that drunk guitarist who made all the headlines played on. Did you hear what that guy DID over in Europe?"

[Slander]

I'm not saying McCauley's responsible, just stating it may be a dumb idea (moreso) now.

If MSG's as famous the world over as YOU'RE always trying to spin then might it not be logical to forseefor some bad pub for the band when the thousands in each Survivor crowd who are familiar with the songs go, "Oh, yea this is the song that drunk guitarist who made all the headlines played on. Did you hear what that guy DID over in Europe?"

Why is it a dumb idea to try and add new fans? Sorry nice try. By the way Schenkers behavior is nothing new. And if we started not doing songs because rock n roll stars drink and do stupid things I guess we should stop going to concerts.

[Eyeof]

I still don't know who this guy even is and it sounds like for good reason...he's a loser...

Maybe McAuley will go back with him and we can have Dave back...now that...would make my dismal day...

[Red13JoePa]

Still dunno who Schenker is either but I'm not willing to McKick McCauley out yet. I just want to hear him sing ONLY Survivor songs live and above all I want a new Survivor album with him, released in the US.

[Slander]

I still don't know who this guy even is and it sounds like for good reason...he's a loser...

Maybe McAuley will go back with him and we can have Dave back...now that...would make my dismal day...

Eye MS is not a great guy. He has a substance abuse problem like many in the music business. That still doesn't diminish his ability to shred. He and Robin put out some good late 80's music. If Robin wants to sing some of that music that is his perogative.

[7 Wishes]

Schencker can't hold Sullivan's or Schon's jock strap.

[Slander]

Schencker can't hold Sullivan's or Schon's jock strap.

That may be so but that has nothing to do with Robin wanting to sing songs he performed with Schenker. In fact, Frankie may make them even better.

[7 Wishes]

Agreed. I have no problem with the MSG material in the setlist, but I also see JoePa's point...however, there are a lot more MSG fans in Europe than in America. They'll be more attuned to what Schencker did.

[Slander]

Agreed. I have no problem with the MSG material in the setlist, but I also see JoePa's point...however, there are a lot more MSG fans in Europe than in America. They'll be more attuned to what Schencker did.

7 I agree with you on that point. MS much more popular in Europe. I just don't see the harm in busting out "Anytime" or something off the Robin's solo effort "Business As Usual".

[axecrew]

To chime in here....I can't remember....Did Survivor ever do any material off of any of Jimi's other albums,Cobra or solo, during any of their live shows?
Jimi recorded what 3 albums w/Survivor and yet they didn't see fit to include any of his solo or former band stuff,not even the Baywatch theme.
So now they decide they want to include MSG stuff? A band that, as has been said, is infinately bigger in Europe then here in the states.
And also Why do they feel the need to include such songs? Is this a way to stick it in Jimi's a$$ or is it because they want to add to their fanbase or is it because their fanbase is dwindling and this is a way to possibly add people to replace those who have moved on to other bands?
And Why are the majority of shows being played in Europe? Is it because they haven't been there in awhile,or is it because the fans over there know who McCauley is,or is it of some other reason? Did REACH sell that well that they had to go there to play,or is it because it sold so poorly that there's really not a huge market in the States for them compared to Europe?

Some interesting questions I'd think.

Slander's spin control/rant in 3....2.....1.....

[Slander]

To chime in here....I can't remember....Did Survivor ever do any material off of any of Jimi's other albums,Cobra or solo, during any of their live shows?
Jimi recorded what 3 albums w/Survivor and yet they didn't see fit to include any of his solo or former band stuff,not even the Baywatch theme.
So now they decide they want to include MSG stuff? A band that, as has been said, is infinately bigger in Europe then here in the states.
And also Why do they feel the need to include such songs? Is this a way to stick it in Jimi's a$$ or is it because they want to add to their fanbase or is it because their fanbase is dwindling and this is a way to possibly add people to replace those who have moved on to other bands?
And Why are the majority of shows being played in Europe? Is it because they haven't been there in awhile,or is it because the fans over there know who McCauley is,or is it of some other reason? Did REACH sell that well that they had to go there to play,or is it because it sold so poorly that there's really not a huge market in the States for them compared to Europe?

Some interesting questions I'd think.

Slander's spin control/rant in 3....2.....1.....

Hey Axe always glad to respond. First I think MSG's stuff was much more popular than anything Jamo put out solo (no disrespect meant). Did anything of Jamo's ever chart? Do you remember the awful first album? In the late 80's MSG put out some quality metal albums that charted. I don't believe any of Jamo's stuff ever did. That doesn't mean Jimi's stuff wasn't good it just means it wasn't recognized. In regards to the fan base I'm going to be seeing them twice here in Washington state in the next week! Washington state! That's not Europe. Clearly the band has more dates than in recent memory. Instead of a contracting fan base it appears to be expanding by all accounts. Did Reach sell poorly? I heard about 30k which is pretty good for a Frontiers release. I myself would be interested in the final tally. I'm sorry Jimi didn't get to sing any of his stuff with Survivor. What was there to sing? MSG had a loyal following and a nice successful body of work. There is no comparison between Jamo's solo stuff and MSG. Wasn't MSG on a major label at the time? Yeah I thought so.

[Red13JoePa]

No one wanted to hear Jamo material at a Survivor show and no one wants to hear MSG @ a Survivor show.

[MarcelJordan]

No one wanted to hear Jamo material at a Survivor show and no one wants to hear MSG @ a Survivor show.

Okay. That means myself, Slander and a couple of others here don't exist. Right?

More IMPORTANTLY, no one here asked for MSG, but the band seems to believe they can. Let them. Or maybe those who don't want it just don't go for the shows.

Not surprising, im with Slander on this one, and the biggest reason for me is that the band seems very excited. AND its just couple of tunes. Lets see the crowds reaction, then Survivor will know their next step, to keep on this track or stick with Survivor stuff.

[Penny]

I don't mind a band doing a cover song if it's a cover they released. I don't think it's necessary for a band to sing another band's songs at a gig that their fans are paying to see.

[survivorfan2005]

I agree that putting some of MSG music will be great for their shows.
I absolutely love "this is my heart" and "anytime" as well as a lot of stuff on the "business as usual" album.
I think that since Frankie helped with that album that they do better performing stuff off of it (technically it is survivor except for Marc.

In regard to Europe having a stronger hold on 80's style music or AOR in general I regretfully agree.
Although, my station as well as others in this country are trying to keep it alive it is
just overcome by this modern day "screaming" rock as well as this crap that we call rap music.
Think about it, when was the last time you saw even
one good AOR song or 80's style song get into the top 100?
I mean, MTV dosn't even play music videos here anymore...

And actually, it seems to me everytime the AOR masters like Survivor, Journey, REO...etc
release a new album think about how much press they get compared to how much a modern
day artist like Green Day or these EMO bands get... I admire all of these bands from the 80's
like Survivor who still sell out concerts and such..

Realisticly though guys, I see Survivor and
a majority of the AOR bands doing moreso in Europe because there IS (and it hurts to say)
more of a market there... That may be why REACH was never released in the US, eventhough
I do think that they should have given it a shot at least. After all, no matter how many people in Europe
there is who love classic AOR, there is still a MAJOR fanbase over here in the States. I know because
I have thousands of listeners a day and MOST are from the US.

[Red13JoePa]

its just couple of tunes.

They're only PLAYING a couple tunes as it is.

No WAY I'd be thrilled paying to see Survivor play 8-12 songs and 1 or 2 of them be something non Survivor that nobody's ever heard.

You wanna stretch out and challenge the band and audience, roll Hungry Years or The Singer Not The Song out.

[Slander]

its just couple of tunes.

They're only PLAYING a couple tunes as it is.

No WAY I'd be thrilled paying to see Survivor play 8-12 songs and 1 or 2 of them be something non Survivor that nobody's ever heard.

You wanna stretch out and challenge the band and audience, roll Hungry Years or The Singer Not The Song out.

I think the band should do what it wants to do and have a good time. It seems to me after years of playing they've earned the right to do what they want to do.

[Red13JoePa]

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of being a professional rock band and charging fans for tickets?

[Slander]

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of being a professional rock band and charging fans for tickets?

What defeats the purpose is playing the same uninspired set lists for years. I think bands should play the "hits" but at thte same time do things that will challenge themselves and their fans.

[axecrew]

But, if you aren't going to play the stuff that YOUR band wrote,then you become nothing more than a glorified cover band with a big cover charge.
Thanks for the reply Slander....knew I could count on you......loved the little subtle sarcastic jabs at me......No, Jimi's solo stuff didn't chart and I love how you convieniently left out his singing the Baywatch theme,you remember it don't you...Baywatch that is......Pam Anderson......beach........David Hasselhoff.......INTERNATIONAL HIT TV SHOW.....#1 TV SHOW IN THE WORLD. Yeah, who at a show could've ever heard or heard of that song.

My point was....If you aren't going to do the solo stuff of a guy who was in your band for years and who had a hand in your biggest record to date,why would you do the solo/other band stuff of a guy most people have never heard of?

Great idea to play MSG songs....After all the point of a SURVIVOR show is not to sell their catalog of albums,but in fact to help sell the catalog of MSG.

You want them to "challenge" themselves....great idea.....I "challenge" them to learn and play a couple of the more obscure songs in their catalog.
Or if that's to difficult then maybe they can learn "American Heartbeat" when's the last time they played that? Or how 'bout "Chevy Nights", "Somewhere in America"?

[Slander]

But, if you aren't going to play the stuff that YOUR band wrote,then you become nothing more than a glorified cover band with a big cover charge.
Thanks for the reply Slander....knew I could count on you......loved the little subtle sarcastic jabs at me......No, Jimi's solo stuff didn't chart and I love how you convieniently left out his singing the Baywatch theme,you remember it don't you...Baywatch that is......Pam Anderson......beach........David Hasselhoff.......INTERNATIONAL HIT TV SHOW.....#1 TV SHOW IN THE WORLD. Yeah, who at a show could've ever heard or heard of that song.

My point was....If you aren't going to do the solo stuff of a guy who was in your band for years and who had a hand in your biggest record to date,why would you do the solo/other band stuff of a guy most people have never heard of?

Great idea to play MSG songs....After all the point of a SURVIVOR show is not to sell their catalog of albums,but in fact to help sell the catalog of MSG.

The show was number 1 thanks to Pam Andersons and others assets not because of Jimi's song! Let's get real here. I love the hysterics on the board. No one is talking about playing an entire set list we are talking about playing a couple of songs. Secondly have you seen Jamo solo? What's with singing bad company? Let's be a little consistent with our argumentation. If Robin wants to sing stuff he wrote what's the issue?

[Red13JoePa]

Thanks for the reply Slander....knew I could count on you......loved the little subtle sarcastic jabs at me......No, Jimi's solo stuff didn't chart and I love how you convieniently left out his singing the Baywatch theme,you remember it don't you...Baywatch that is......Pam Anderson......beach........David Hasselhoff.......INTERNATIONAL HIT TV SHOW.....#1 TV SHOW IN THE WORLD.

Agreed. But I guarantee the Sman will roll the "too poppy/too cheesy" out and affix it to Jamo's big solo hit.

Yes it was limited success but I don't recall MSG singeing the charts like a missle in the night either.

Can't we hear Survivor, and JUST Survivor.

[axecrew]

And I don't like Jimi's doing other people's stuff either,so don't try to put me in the Jamison lover catagory....I actually liked the band with both guys in it.
I HATE going to a show and hearing an artist...whoever it is....playing someone else's music....if I wanted to see a cover band I'd go to a bar.
Unless that artist(s) wrote that song for someone else! Example would be if Survivor were to do "Rockin' into the Night" by .38 Special....Peterik/Sullivan wrote that....they have just as much right to it as .38 does.

I don't recall saying that the song made the show.....you insinuated that with your post not me.