Reach or Empires

[Eyeof]

Okay, I was never a fan of JJ touring the country claiming to be Survivor....especially at a time with JP, FS and DB were all still in the group....

However, I just can't help the fact that I find Empires to be a much better listen than Reach....

Hey, I didn't even break down and buy the album until 2004 or so...but i do prefer it too reach...

I actually enjoy the song Empires a good bit and part of the album rocks as well...

What is your thoughts?

P.S.

I do prefer the Fire Makes Steel sessions to both...

[Slander]

Okay, I was never a fan of JJ touring the country claiming to be Survivor....especially at a time with JP, FS and DB were all still in the group....

However, I just can't help the fact that I find Empires to be a much better listen than Reach....

Hey, I didn't even break down and buy the album until 2004 or so...but i do prefer it too reach...

I actually enjoy the song Empires a good bit and part of the album rocks as well...

What is your thoughts?

P.S.

I do prefer the Fire Makes Steel sessions to both...

I think REACH is a better SOUNDING album. Notice I said sounding. I think the production is top notch. I think some of the songs are excellent FMS, REACH, GTW, Seconds Away, Talkin' Bout Love. There are only a handful of what I consider filler songs on the disc. Secondly REACH is not Jamo's strongest performance. I wish we could take the Jamo from 1999 and have him sing on REACH. Having said that I think Empires is a solid aor album. I'm tired of people who dis REACH just because JJ was replaced.

[Red13JoePa]

I'm tired of people who dis REACH just because JJ was replaced.

Like who?

[Slander]

I'm tired of people who dis REACH just because JJ was replaced.

Like who?

Hey Red,

Let's go back to everbody's lovefest with REACH when it first came out. People thought it was super. I can start copying and pasting comments from way back if you'd like. Just go back to older posts on the bulletin board. I think we need to take REACH out and give it a listen and re-evaluate it. It's pretty strong and it sounds great. I don't like I HOME but I do like the attempt on the song to do something different.

[silvergirl66]

I never heard Empires so can't judge I guess.

[Slander]

I never heard Empires so can't judge I guess.

Silver,

You should give it a listen! Cry Tough is a great song. Never let it be said I have nothing nice to say about JJ. Empires is a solid outing.

[IngoK]

I prefer Empires because of the Song quality. Of course Reach has some good ones, but Empires was better. From the production side Reach is better, but possibly already overproduced. I compare here the different mixes of Fire makes steel from the Reach Album and the Rock the Bones Vol. 3 Sampler. A little bit less would be more in this case (that means more rough). That's what I miss on Reach.

[Jeremy Holiday]

deleted

[Slander]

Empires for me, on every level -- performance, songwriting, production. Empries is my favorite melodic rock CD from the "indie" (post '91) era.

Of course JJ's performance on Empires is better! He was a better singer in 1999 than he was in 2006. It only sounds to reason. In terms of production I think you are way off base on this one. Songwriting? Which songs are you referring to in particular?

[Slander]

I prefer Empires because of the Song quality.

Song Quality? Okay wait a minute. We have three live Survivor tracks. A remake of Tom Cochrane's Calling America. A remake of Gary Wright's My Love Is Alive. I'm Always There. The song quality? For all of you who dis the fact that REACH has some remakes of old Survivor tunes you sure are hypocritical. I will say it again: Empires is a solid album but a masterpiece it is not. JJ does sound great on it.

[IngoK]

I prefer Empires because of the Song quality.

Song Quality? Okay wait a minute. We have three live Survivor tracks. A remake of Tom Cochrane's Calling America. A remake of Gary Wright's My Love Is Alive. I'm Always There. The song quality? For all of you who dis the fact that REACH has some remakes of old Survivor tunes you sure are hypocritical. I will say it again: Empires is a solid album but a masterpiece it is not. JJ does sound great on it.

Did I said something negative about the remakes on Reach ? Let me know when I did that.

[IngoK]

...but I'm sure that Reach would be a better Album if it had more remakes of the FMS Sessions.

[Red13JoePa]

Did I said something negative about the remakes on Reach ? Let me know when I did that.

To take the issue further I'm still waiting to see the evidence of the posters who raved about Reach only to turn on it when Double J left/got fired.

[jrnyman28]

I have yet to listen to Empires (It is sitting on my desk as we speak), but I was not overly impressed with Reach. I htought it sounded pretty rough and JJ's voice was sub-par. But I thought the songs were good. Maybe I better pull it out again...

[Red13JoePa]

Agreed, Jamo's vox had matured by Reach but rough Jamo's still damn good, better than most.
I just love that guy's singing and his voice and Sullivan's guitar are a perfect match.
Too bad their personalities are not.

[Slander]

...but I'm sure that Reach would be a better Album if it had more remakes of the FMS Sessions.

I absoultely agree but you were coming off like Empires is a masterpiece of original material. IT IS FAR FROM IT.

[jrnyman28]

Agreed, Jamo's vox had matured by Reach but rough Jamo's still damn good, better than most.
I just love that guy's singing and his voice and Sullivan's guitar are a perfect match.
Too bad their personalities are not.

Seems like a trend, yeah?

[Slander]

Agreed, Jamo's vox had matured by Reach but rough Jamo's still damn good, better than most.
I just love that guy's singing and his voice and Sullivan's guitar are a perfect match.
Too bad their personalities are not.

Seems like a trend, yeah?

Yeah one guy works his ass of and the other well.......

[IngoK]

...but I'm sure that Reach would be a better Album if it had more remakes of the FMS Sessions.

I absoultely agree but you were coming off like Empires is a masterpiece of original material. IT IS FAR FROM IT.

Said nothing like he's using only original material. Said I prefer it because of the song quality. Empires is an album I can hear from top till bottom. That´s an fact I cannot say about Reach. But again: We're talking here about opinions and opinions can be extremly subjectiv...

[IngoK]

...but I'm sure that Reach would be a better Album if it had more remakes of the FMS Sessions.

I absoultely agree but you were coming off like Empires is a masterpiece of original material. IT IS FAR FROM IT.

Said nothing like he's using only original material. Said I prefer it because of the song quality. Empires is an album I can hear from top till bottom. That´s a fact I cannot say about Reach. But again: We're talking here about opinions and opinions can be extremly subjectiv...

[Slander]

I prefer Empires because of the Song quality.

Song Quality? Okay wait a minute. We have three live Survivor tracks. A remake of Tom Cochrane's Calling America. A remake of Gary Wright's My Love Is Alive. I'm Always There. The song quality? For all of you who dis the fact that REACH has some remakes of old Survivor tunes you sure are hypocritical. I will say it again: Empires is a solid album but a masterpiece it is not. JJ does sound great on it.

Did I said something negative about the remakes on Reach ? Let me know when I did that.

IngoK you didn't say anything negative about REACH at all. I just don't quite understand your argument about better song quality.

[IngoK]

IngoK you didn't say anything negative about REACH at all. I just don't quite understand your argument about better song quality.

Song quality is for me what I like. And that is (of course) subjective. Other people may think different about it. A number one hit doesn't mean for me it is a good song, but enough other people are thinking different.

[Slander]

...but I'm sure that Reach would be a better Album if it had more remakes of the FMS Sessions.

I absoultely agree but you were coming off like Empires is a masterpiece of original material. IT IS FAR FROM IT.

Said nothing like he's using only original material. Said I prefer it because of the song quality. Empires is an album I can hear from top till bottom. That´s a fact I cannot say about Reach. But again: We're talking here about opinions and opinions can be extremly subjectiv...

Even the life stuff? Like too hot to sleep? burning heart? I think those are mediocre efforts at best. It's friggin' filler. That's where I turn off. If I want to hear Survivor live tracks than I want to hear it from the original band not imposters.

[Slander]

[quote="IngoK A number one hit doesn't mean for me it is a good song, but enough other people are thinking different.[/quote]

Nor me. We do agree on this point

[IngoK]

Even the life stuff? Like too hot to sleep? burning heart? I think those are mediocre efforts at best. It's friggin' filler. That's where I turn off. If I want to hear Survivor live tracks than I want to hear it from the original band not imposters.

Let's cut off the Live Tracks (are they really live or simply mixed with a live audience?). They are filler, I agree to that. The Album is strong enough without them.

[Andrew]

Empires for me, on every level -- performance, songwriting, production. Empries is my favorite melodic rock CD from the "indie" (post '91) era.

I agree...Empires is superb. Even despite the crap gone through to get it completed!

[Andrew]

I prefer Empires because of the Song quality.

Song Quality? Okay wait a minute. We have three live Survivor tracks. A remake of Tom Cochrane's Calling America. A remake of Gary Wright's My Love Is Alive. I'm Always There. The song quality? For all of you who dis the fact that REACH has some remakes of old Survivor tunes you sure are hypocritical. I will say it again: Empires is a solid album but a masterpiece it is not. JJ does sound great on it.

Did I said something negative about the remakes on Reach ? Let me know when I did that.

IngoK you didn't say anything negative about REACH at all. I just don't quite understand your argument about better song quality.

I'll say it then. I believe Empires features better consistency in production, performance and song quality than Reach did.

[bulldog]

I prefer Empires .. Jimi sounded great on some of the tracks .. There is no doubt Empires rocked . I didn't care for the new version of I'm Always Here . I have always thought that Jimi should have had a follow up to Empires . He had lots of awesome demos that he should have re-cut. I like the band he had. I had seen it live and it was loose and not too polished but he sang very well.

I love the song Reach but I don't like the opening or the music style. The music is too over produced and too much guitar over - dubs for my taste. Jimi's voice wasn't his best but it is almost back now and whatever he does now will surpass this performance .

I prefer more keyboards.

[Journey/Survivor]

I would say it's pretty close to a tie for me. In many ways I like Empires better, but Reach has Sullivan and Droubay on it, so that's a positive there for me.

I myself have never raved about Reach, it's my least favorite Survivor album. I know that Jimi had originally intended to use "Give Me The Word" on a solo album, and to me it sounds a lot like some of the songs that are on Empires. GMTW is reminiscent of a few of the Empires songs like "Run From The Thunder" "First Day Of Love" and "A Dream To Far."

[MarcelJordan]

I would say it's pretty close to a tie for me. In many ways I like Empires better, but Reach has Sullivan and Droubay on it, so that's a positive there for me.

I myself have never raved about Reach, it's my least favorite Survivor album. I know that Jimi had originally intended to use "Give Me The Word" on a solo album, and to me it sounds a lot like some of the songs that are on Empires. GMTW is reminiscent of a few of the Empires songs like "Run From The Thunder" "First Day Of Love" and "A Dream To Far."

For me, GMTW is THE sole killer track from Reach. Frankly, I think JJ sang his best on that one. The rest perhaps a tad bit underwhelming than his actual level, IMO. GMTW as also got Frankie with his scorching guitar. Which is more of a plus for me, compared to Empires.