Idea for Bickler/Peterik album

[Idiosyncrasy]

I was listening to the Chicago Haymakers boot again today and was struck by what brilliant songs the band had that were never released. Life Is On the Line is my favourite, but stuff like Pepperhead, Kid Dynamite, and Slipping Away still sound great even after all these years. I know at one point Peterik was planning to release a 2CD "Songs From the Vaults" album, covering some of that material.

So here's an idea. How about a hard edged Peterik/Bickler album, re-recording those old unreleased songs and/or bringing them up to date? If Peterik is trying to recreate the Vital Signs/When Seconds Count sound on Jamo's solo albums, perhaps he could recreate the Survivor (s/t) or Premonition sound with Dave? They'd need someone to take care of Frankie's guitar parts and harmony vocals, but I'm sure they could find someone. I liked Reb Beach's contributions to Kelly Keagy's I'm Alive - could he be an option?

Just a thought!

- Danny.

[Destiny]

Hey
Just one of a lot of great ideas! The combination you talk about could fit very good.
This is something the fans like to hear but it never would sound 100 % like the
Peterik / Sullivan combination would do it. This is the only Line-Up you can
make money with the name Survivor and in the end thats a lot about it!

[G.I.Jim]

I would LOVE to hear this duo! To me, the JP sound is the ONLY thing that sounds like Survivor anymore. Sullivan's efforts since the split have sucked ASS, and Survivor hasn't sounded like "Survivor" since. Jamison's last album is the best new "Survivor" album in many years, and I think this idea would kick some MAJOR ass.

[Idiosyncrasy]

I would LOVE to hear this duo! To me, the JP sound is the ONLY thing that sounds like Survivor anymore. Sullivan's efforts since the split have sucked ASS, and Survivor hasn't sounded like "Survivor" since. Jamison's last album is the best new "Survivor" album in many years, and I think this idea would kick some MAJOR ass.

Gotta agree with you there! The non-Peterik stuff on Reach didn't sound anything like Survivor to me. Crossroads Moment definitely sounded 10 times more Survivor than Reach did. That said, I'd love to hear Peterik work with a guitar player who can inject some of the heavyness and 'grit' back into the sound like pre-Jamo Survivor. I like Mike Aquino, but I think it would be need to be someone else. I know Jim described Chiseled in Stone as one of the heaviest songs he's written in ages, but it doesn't sound that heavy to me!

Someone like Vinny Burns could do an amazing job!

(PS, love your demos!)

- Danny.

[axecrew]

Rut Roh......the traditon survivor sound without sullivan involved???? Sullivan written survivor sounds less like survivor than jamison solo album????? Slander won't be happy to read any of this. Even though it's completely true.

[G.I.Jim]

I would LOVE to hear this duo! To me, the JP sound is the ONLY thing that sounds like Survivor anymore. Sullivan's efforts since the split have sucked ASS, and Survivor hasn't sounded like "Survivor" since. Jamison's last album is the best new "Survivor" album in many years, and I think this idea would kick some MAJOR ass.

Gotta agree with you there! The non-Peterik stuff on Reach didn't sound anything like Survivor to me. Crossroads Moment definitely sounded 10 times more Survivor than Reach did. That said, I'd love to hear Peterik work with a guitar player who can inject some of the heavyness and 'grit' back into the sound like pre-Jamo Survivor. I like Mike Aquino, but I think it would be need to be someone else. I know Jim described Chiseled in Stone as one of the heaviest songs he's written in ages, but it doesn't sound that heavy to me!

Someone like Vinny Burns could do an amazing job!

(PS, love your demos!)

- Danny.

Danny, I agree with you about the guitarist. I would definitely put a little harder edge on the songs, but to me... Peterik IS the sound of Survivor. It would be an awesome album I guarantee you!

Thanks for checking out the demos too! We're recording the final drums for our album over the next three days, and once we get them finished... we'll be re-recording EvERYTHING from scratch. We'll be changing several things up too. As far as the demos go... they're just that. I think you'll like the finished songs 100% better.

[Slander]

The non-Peterik stuff on Reach didn't sound anything like Survivor to me. Crossroads Moment definitely sounded 10 times more Survivor than Reach did. That said, I'd love to hear Peterik work with a guitar player who can inject some of the heavyness and 'grit' back into the sound like pre-Jamo Survivor.

Agree with you here to a point. Reach had some great hooks and Sullivan's guitar work is always irreplaceable. CW is a fine effort, but very Pride of Lions Sounding to me. Don't get me wrong, I own every POL record but it is different than Survivor. The bottom line here is it is too bad that Peterik and Sullivan are not together. The two are stronger as a team.

[Jeremy Holiday]

The non-Peterik stuff on Reach didn't sound anything like Survivor to me. Crossroads Moment definitely sounded 10 times more Survivor than Reach did. That said, I'd love to hear Peterik work with a guitar player who can inject some of the heavyness and 'grit' back into the sound like pre-Jamo Survivor.

Agree with you here to a point. Reach had some great hooks and Sullivan's guitar work is always irreplaceable. CW is a fine effort, but very Pride of Lions Sounding to me. Don't get me wrong, I own every POL record but it is different than Survivor. The bottom line here is it is too bad that Peterik and Sullivan are not together. The two are stronger as a team.

I agree with Slander that there's a lot more good on Reach than it's often given credit for.

Slander, aside from "Battersea," "Make Me A Believer" and "She's Nothin' To Me," three songs that I urged against including on the album for being too POL-ish (but was obviously overuled - Frontiers loved them), do you hear many other POL-isms on Crossroads Moment? Personally, I think the songs "Dream Higher," "Crossroads Moment," "Bittersweet," "Behind the Music," "Til the Morning Comes," "Tha'ts Why I Sing" and "Friends We've Never Met" are reminiscent of past Peterik/Jamison collaborations.

[Slander]

The non-Peterik stuff on Reach didn't sound anything like Survivor to me. Crossroads Moment definitely sounded 10 times more Survivor than Reach did. That said, I'd love to hear Peterik work with a guitar player who can inject some of the heavyness and 'grit' back into the sound like pre-Jamo Survivor.

Agree with you here to a point. Reach had some great hooks and Sullivan's guitar work is always irreplaceable. CW is a fine effort, but very Pride of Lions Sounding to me. Don't get me wrong, I own every POL record but it is different than Survivor. The bottom line here is it is too bad that Peterik and Sullivan are not together. The two are stronger as a team.

I agree with Slander that there's a lot more good on Reach than it's often given credit for. Obviously not a perfect Survivor album, but far from a total washout.

Slander, aside from "Battersea," "Make Me A Believer" and "She's Nothin' To Me," three songs that I strongly urged against including on the album for being too POL-ish (but was obviously overuled - Frontiers loved them), do you hear many other POL-isms on Crossroads Moment? Personally, I think the songs "Dream Higher," "Crossroads Moment," "Bittersweet," "Behind the Music," "Til the Morning Comes," "Tha'ts Why I Sing" and "Friends We've Never Met" are almost 100% pure Survivor.

Hi Jeremy,

It's been a few months since I have listened to CW. I'm going to give it a spin this weekend. Thanks for weighing in.

[Jeremy Holiday]

deleted

[Idiosyncrasy]

Program the 6 songs from the album that I mentioned plus, if you have it, "Dream Higher." You'll feel like you're listening to the followup to When Seconds Count. I felt that, in "Til The Morning Comes," they came up with the perfect comeback single to follow Survivor's last top 10 hit, "Is This Love." "Til the Morning Comes" lyrically seems to describe the morning after of "Is This Love" and musically it's right in line too. In a better world where new songs by classic artists had an easier time getting on the radio, that song would've gotten a big "comeback" single promotional push and been a big hit. I was in the studio with them on the day Jimi cut the vocal and Jim did the guitar solo and it was a totally magical experience.

I spent ages trying to work out which song from WSC 'Til the Morning Comes' was reminding everyone of. I'll have to go and listen to them back to back and see if I can hear it.

Anyone else think Backstreet Love Affair could be a really moody, gritty number if they lost some of the synths and replaced them with guitars? Love that song! I wonder if it was written back in the Bickler era?

[MarcelJordan]

Anyone else think Backstreet Love Affair could be a really moody, gritty number if they lost some of the synths and replaced them with guitars? Love that song! I wonder if it was written back in the Bickler era?

I can agree with that. Too much Synths really soften it IMO. I prefer Guitar, more guitar!!!

[Slander]

Anyone else think Backstreet Love Affair could be a really moody, gritty number if they lost some of the synths and replaced them with guitars? Love that song! I wonder if it was written back in the Bickler era?

I can agree with that. Too much Synths really soften it IMO. I prefer Guitar, more guitar!!!

WSC is my least favorite Survivor album because it is to synth driven.

[MarcelJordan]

Anyone else think Backstreet Love Affair could be a really moody, gritty number if they lost some of the synths and replaced them with guitars? Love that song! I wonder if it was written back in the Bickler era?

I can agree with that. Too much Synths really soften it IMO. I prefer Guitar, more guitar!!!

WSC is my least favorite Survivor album because it is to synth driven.

For me, growing up with "grittier" Survivor (atleast before synths were being used much more in front circa mid 84 or so), and while I was totally SOLD on VS, really WSC was a pretty bad disappointment. I was cursing the band (seriously) and sent them a stinker of a "fan" letter.

My apologies to anyone who had great memories of WSC those days and now. I just can't lose my view sadly. Sigh.

That said, Oceans pulls all the right strings, notwithstanding.

[Ehwmatt]

Anyone else think Backstreet Love Affair could be a really moody, gritty number if they lost some of the synths and replaced them with guitars? Love that song! I wonder if it was written back in the Bickler era?

I can agree with that. Too much Synths really soften it IMO. I prefer Guitar, more guitar!!!

WSC is my least favorite Survivor album because it is to synth driven.

For me, growing up with "grittier" Survivor (atleast before synths were being used much more in front circa mid 84 or so), and while I was totally SOLD on VS, really WSC was a huge disappointment. I was cursing the band (seriously) and sent them a stinker of a "fan" letter.

My apologies to anyone who had great memories of WSC those days and now. I just can't lose my view sadly. Sigh.

I love WSC, but then I started with VS and learned the catalogue backwards and forwards from there... I can see how starting with the Dave era stuff could hurt your impression of WSC. I think it's a great album though. I especially love Oceans, Backstreet Love Affair, When Seconds Count, Is This Love, and Can't Let You Go

[MarcelJordan]

Anyone else think Backstreet Love Affair could be a really moody, gritty number if they lost some of the synths and replaced them with guitars? Love that song! I wonder if it was written back in the Bickler era?

I can agree with that. Too much Synths really soften it IMO. I prefer Guitar, more guitar!!!

WSC is my least favorite Survivor album because it is to synth driven.

For me, growing up with "grittier" Survivor (atleast before synths were being used much more in front circa mid 84 or so), and while I was totally SOLD on VS, really WSC was a huge disappointment. I was cursing the band (seriously) and sent them a stinker of a "fan" letter.

My apologies to anyone who had great memories of WSC those days and now. I just can't lose my view sadly. Sigh.

I love WSC, but then I started with VS and learned the catalogue backwards and forwards from there... I can see how starting with the Dave era stuff could hurt your impression of WSC. I think it's a great album though. I especially love Oceans, Backstreet Love Affair, When Seconds Count, Is This Love, and Can't Let You Go

Thanks for your empathy!

You've picked pretty much the tunes I can listen to if and when I feel like it. Oh for what it's worth, Is this love I think is a very well constructed tune.

[Idiosyncrasy]

Can't Let You Go sounds really out of place on the album to me, almost as if it was from a different album session, or written much earlier. Either that, or the band also picked up on the synth overload and added that one at the last minute to try to even up the balance! It's always a bit of an oddity whenever I listen to the whole album, as if it's been tacked on the end. Certainly not one of favourite Survivor songs.

[Idiosyncrasy]

You've picked pretty much the tunes I can listen to if and when I feel like it. Oh for what it's worth, Is this love I think is a very well constructed tune.

Is This Love is a classic. So simple, but so catchy. I love it when they go to a 'mean' sounding middle eight from a sparkly pop song!

How about Rebel Son? That's another album high for me. I always get echoes of this when I listen to Behind the Music (and Peterik recycled a bit of it for Letter To the Future didn't he!)

[Eyeof]

I've said 1,000 times I'd give about anything to hear an entire Vital Signs album, rerecorded with Dave Bickler on vocals and played out the way it would have been...this is not a slam on JJ..I'm just a Bickler vocal fanatic...I can't get enough of that sound...

Surely, anyone who has listened to 'Nothing Can Shake Me' understands this...

With that said, great point on 'Back Street'...Imagine that synthed down with Bickler...ahhhh

I mean Bickler's vocals on some of the boots of songs even like Despearate Dreams and especially "The Search Is Over"...wow...

I will say this, and it's a first or second, I have to agree with Slander to a point...

I would not really want to hear Dave's vocals wasted on POL type stuff...I don't mind it, but it's not the rock I'm looking for, that's all...But a Bickler, Peterik album...hell yes!

[Ehwmatt]

Is This Love is a classic. So simple, but so catchy. I love it when they go to a 'mean' sounding middle eight from a sparkly pop song!

How about Rebel Son? That's another album high for me. I always get echoes of this when I listen to Behind the Music (and Peterik recycled a bit of it for Letter To the Future didn't he!)

Oh, I forgot Rebel Son... great tune. As for Can't Let You Go, it's got a great hook and it's one of the few songs where the lyrics actually do jump out at me - nice, simple poetry that rings true for all of us... I especially like the line "Girls like you are hard to shake, like habits hard as hell to break."

I dunno, between the rhyme, cadence of the words, and the message, it really is a feel-good song to me. And generally, I'm not a lyrical analyst or critic one way or the other, as I look for melody and hook above all else and good lyrics are just a bonus... but this song rocks in that department for me!

[Slander]

Is This Love is a classic. So simple, but so catchy. I love it when they go to a 'mean' sounding middle eight from a sparkly pop song!

How about Rebel Son? That's another album high for me. I always get echoes of this when I listen to Behind the Music (and Peterik recycled a bit of it for Letter To the Future didn't he!)

Oh, I forgot Rebel Son... great tune. As for Can't Let You Go, it's got a great hook and it's one of the few songs where the lyrics actually do jump out at me - nice, simple poetry that rings true for all of us... I especially like the line "Girls like you are hard to shake, like habits hard as hell to break."

I dunno, between the rhyme, cadence of the words, and the message, it really is a feel-good song to me. And generally, I'm not a lyrical analyst or critic one way or the other, as I look for melody and hook above all else and good lyrics are just a bonus... but this song rocks in that department for me!

WSC is my least favorite Survivor album although Oceans is a classic. They went way too synth heavy and lost their way and with it they lost their male audience. I converted a lot of my male friends to Survivor following Vital Signs. Vital signs was lighter than previous works but it still maintained an edge. I consider I Can't Hold Back one of the greatest AOR songs of all-time. It's flawless. When Seconds Count had the band in the class of a Glass Tiger instead of the likes of Journey and Foreigner.

[Jeremy Holiday]

As for Can't Let You Go, it's got a great hook and it's one of the few songs where the lyrics actually do jump out at me - nice, simple poetry that rings true for all of us... I especially like the line "Girls like you are hard to shake, like habits hard as hell to break."

I love that line too

[Idiosyncrasy]

The title track is the other song that sounds a little unusual on the album - sort of a side-step into slightly different territory. It's a good mid-tempo song but the chorus never really reaches the highs that the verses seem to promise, in my opinion. I was surprised they played this one live over something like Rebel Son. I assumed this was the song people were referring to when they said Til the Morning Comes sounded like something off WSC.

Keep It Right here was a grower for me. Didn't think much on first listen, but I like what it brings to the album. The choruses are definitely stronger than the verses (but I like that little 'BOINK!' from Stephan's bass - not sure if this was intentional or not, but I'm glad they left it on!)

[kgdjpubs]

Can't Let You Go sounds really out of place on the album to me, almost as if it was from a different album session, or written much earlier. Either that, or the band also picked up on the synth overload and added that one at the last minute to try to even up the balance! It's always a bit of an oddity whenever I listen to the whole album, as if it's been tacked on the end. Certainly not one of favourite Survivor songs.

.....

The title track is the other song that sounds a little unusual on the album - sort of a side-step into slightly different territory. It's a good mid-tempo song but the chorus never really reaches the highs that the verses seem to promise, in my opinion. I was surprised they played this one live over something like Rebel Son. I assumed this was the song people were referring to when they said Til the Morning Comes sounded like something off WSC.

Keep It Right here was a grower for me. Didn't think much on first listen, but I like what it brings to the album. The choruses are definitely stronger than the verses (but I like that little 'BOINK!' from Stephan's bass - not sure if this was intentional or not, but I'm glad they left it on!)

Personally, the title track and Can't Let You Go are probably 2 of my favorite songs on WSC--and bring a much needed heavier edge to the album, both in lyrics and production. The 2nd half of the album feels heavier than the opening tracks--less pop and more rock. I'm not sure if it was intentional to sequence the album in a lighter side/heavier side, but the part from Rebel Son onward is certainly heavier--both in lyrics and tempo. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those were the switch between the melodic VS and the later return to the hard-rock Bickler-era that was featured more on Too Hot To Sleep.

Given the live stuff that was played (and Rebel Son WAS played live), WSC the album was a bit heavier than the studio production would have you believe. Crank the guitars and lower the keys a little. The two songs you mentioned are probably the two exceptions for the production--they cranked the guitars on those. Live, the guitars got turned up, and things started sounding similar. Even How Much Love, which was heavily keyboard-driven in the studio in stark contrast to the WSC/Can't Let You Go, sounded more consistent live...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7-KvksvWp0. There are versions of JJ playing Is This Love solo cranked up, less polished and a bit rougher--and the loss of the pop edge isn't a bad thing. Kinda makes me wonder if the production would have worked better with a higher-guitar mix.

[MarcelJordan]

Can't Let You Go sounds really out of place on the album to me, almost as if it was from a different album session, or written much earlier. Either that, or the band also picked up on the synth overload and added that one at the last minute to try to even up the balance! It's always a bit of an oddity whenever I listen to the whole album, as if it's been tacked on the end. Certainly not one of favourite Survivor songs.

.....

The title track is the other song that sounds a little unusual on the album - sort of a side-step into slightly different territory. It's a good mid-tempo song but the chorus never really reaches the highs that the verses seem to promise, in my opinion. I was surprised they played this one live over something like Rebel Son. I assumed this was the song people were referring to when they said Til the Morning Comes sounded like something off WSC.

Keep It Right here was a grower for me. Didn't think much on first listen, but I like what it brings to the album. The choruses are definitely stronger than the verses (but I like that little 'BOINK!' from Stephan's bass - not sure if this was intentional or not, but I'm glad they left it on!)

Personally, the title track and Can't Let You Go are probably 2 of my favorite songs on WSC--and bring a much needed heavier edge to the album, both in lyrics and production. The 2nd half of the album feels heavier than the opening tracks--less pop and more rock. I'm not sure if it was intentional to sequence the album in a lighter side/heavier side, but the part from Rebel Son onward is certainly heavier--both in lyrics and tempo. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those were the switch between the melodic VS and the later return to the hard-rock Bickler-era that was featured more on Too Hot To Sleep.

Given the live stuff that was played (and Rebel Son WAS played live), WSC the album was a bit heavier than the studio production would have you believe. Crank the guitars and lower the keys a little. The two songs you mentioned are probably the two exceptions for the production--they cranked the guitars on those. Live, the guitars got turned up, and things started sounding similar. Even How Much Love, which was heavily keyboard-driven in the studio in stark contrast to the WSC/Can't Let You Go, sounded more consistent live...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7-KvksvWp0. There are versions of JJ playing Is This Love solo cranked up, less polished and a bit rougher--and the loss of the pop edge isn't a bad thing. Kinda makes me wonder if the production would have worked better with a higher-guitar mix.

I'm sure I'd have like WSC more if they did it more guitar driven. Can't Let You Go has a bit of Heart vibe to it (especially when Frankie let's his guitar do that "All Eyes" (from Heart's '85 album) sound - You know which part I'm talking about

That said, I compare CLYG to Hesitation Dance and the latter simply blows it away IMHO.

MJ

[kgdjpubs]

I'm sure I'd have like WSC more if they did it more guitar driven.

I'd prefer it more guitar driven also, but from a pure songwriting point of view, it ranks up there near the top of their output for me--tied with Premonition.

That said, I compare CLYG to Hesitation Dance and the latter simply blows it away IMHO.

MJ

I might tend to agree with you, but Hesitation tends to go on a bit too long for its own good. Love the first part of it however before it starts to drag.

[MarcelJordan]

I'm sure I'd have like WSC more if they did it more guitar driven.

I'd prefer it more guitar driven also, but from a pure songwriting point of view, it ranks up there near the top of their output for me--tied with Premonition.

That said, I compare CLYG to Hesitation Dance and the latter simply blows it away IMHO.

MJ

I might tend to agree with you, but Hesitation tends to go on a bit too long for its own good. Love the first part of it however before it starts to drag.

Wow I've also heard that from others too. Lyrics of WSC equal to Premonition. I just can't fathom that view, BUT all power to ya! Love to be you in that respect, because Premontion is TOPS for me.

Hesitation Dance? It's not long enough! I just love Frankie's playing and the solo, I can't see any weakness AT ALL with HD but I guess if the world still turns... LOL!

Nice conversing with you kgdjpubs.

[kgdjpubs]

I'm sure I'd have like WSC more if they did it more guitar driven.

I'd prefer it more guitar driven also, but from a pure songwriting point of view, it ranks up there near the top of their output for me--tied with Premonition.

That said, I compare CLYG to Hesitation Dance and the latter simply blows it away IMHO.

MJ

I might tend to agree with you, but Hesitation tends to go on a bit too long for its own good. Love the first part of it however before it starts to drag.

Wow I've also heard that from others too. Lyrics of WSC equal to Premonition. I just can't fathom that view, BUT all power to ya! Love to be you in that respect, because Premontion is TOPS for me.

I think WSC is some of the best songwriting--especially Man Against the World--and in general, the songwriting was better than some of the other albums they did (VS being near the bottom for deep lyrics and It's the Singer being a prime example of superficial lyrics). Premonition had some especially good songwriting on it of course, especially if you take the full version of Summer Nights into account before it was chopped into pieces for the single edit.

[Slander]

Wow I've also heard that from others too. Lyrics of WSC equal to Premonition. I just can't fathom that view, BUT all power to ya! Love to be you in that respect, because Premontion is TOPS for me.

Premonition Rocks. I don't understand what they were doing with WSC. Yes the album sounds great but the songs! Too much synth. As I have said this album lost a lot of male fans. Secondly, why release "How Much Love" as the second single. It is the single weakest release in the bands history.

[kgdjpubs]

Wow I've also heard that from others too. Lyrics of WSC equal to Premonition. I just can't fathom that view, BUT all power to ya! Love to be you in that respect, because Premontion is TOPS for me.

Premonition Rocks. I don't understand what they were doing with WSC. Yes the album sounds great but the songs! Too much synth. As I have said this album lost a lot of male fans.

simple answer....it was the mid 80s, and EVERYBODY was going to a keyboard-driven production. I don't think the track sequencing did them any favors either as the more rocking tracks are on the 2nd half of the album, where the front half of the album was considerably more pop.