Crue Parallel?

by **Red13JoePa** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:46 pm

Been kicking this one around for some time now. It's the kinda shit that would keep me up at night, if shit kept me up at night which it doesn't. It's also the kinda shit that would give the Heads the sweetest of dreams. Motley Crue's always been one of my other bands, so to speak. The mainstream knows that they're back together now with the original 4 getting all manner of hype and coin. Creu fans know they never broke up. They simply soldiered on at alternating times without the likes of VN or TL playing to smaller venues while still putting out MC and New Tattoo. Never went away, though contrary to what the promotions would have you beleive. It's no coincidence that VH1 and who knows what other nameless faceless entities like Clearchannel promoted the hell out of the reuinion after Motley was handpicked to have a bunch of money invested in a reunion.
Now tons of people still don't know JRNY continued after TBF. Largely because the robots on radio have ignored the current lineup save for a top 25 hit in ATW and scattered airplay for HP, and WYL and some of the Red13 material. Though they've been touring in the current incarnation for years now, what happens when some entities get together with tons of money to reunite the TBF lineup and act as though they're picking it up right from there? I'm hoping that this album and tour put the brakes on that kind of copycat thing happening to the current more rocking lineup.

by **Rockindeano** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:23 pm

I see what you are trying to say. You have to remember Journey lost their "most identifiable" part; Perry.. And sadly, along with him goes a lot of noteriety.

However, with that being said, I am quick to blame management for lack of....anything. You have what I think to be an awful decision to do the giveaway at concerts(well, most anyway), and choose NOT to sell it at your own paid for website, where the profit would be maximized? This has nothing to do with Label, and I would love Andrew to interview not only the five members, but also Irving Azoff himself. (also, I would love to hear from Kevin Elsen, hint hint).. Ask him why their has been hardly a "push" from Azoff Mgt. for the last five years, save for the 2001 DVD? Ask him why the Eagles get all of the play.... Honestly, as a true fan throughout all the years, this hurts me to see the Band struggle like this when IMO, they don't have to. Their are still loads of classic rock stations who would be happy to play the new cd as well as the rest of the catalog.

The general public, save the 11-15 yr. old girl clubs, and the rap community, would probably love to even know there is still a Journey out there, and going forward, and making new music that frankly sounds fresh and new. It's not a rehash of the 80's, it's 2005.

Motley Crue plays to a different crowd. They play arenas, but Journey could too, if their was promotion for Generations, and serious CD and tour kick-ins too.

Andrew, do us a favour? Interview Irving, and maybe even talk him into a live chat with us..He just may learn something:)

by **Argus** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:27 pm

Rock'ndeano wrote:I see what you are trying to say. You have to remember Journey lost their "most identifiable" part; Perry.. And sadly, along with him goes a lot of noteriety.

However, with that being said, I am quick to blame management for lack of....anything. You have what I think to be an awful decision to do the giveaway at concerts(well, most anyway), and choose NOT to sell it at your own paid for website, where the profit would be maximized? This has nothing to do with Label, and I would love Andrew to interview not only the five members, but also Irving Azoff himself. (also, I would love to hear from Kevin Olsen, hint hint).. Ask him why their has been hardly a "push" from Azoff Mgt. for the last five years, save for the 2001 DVD? Ask him why the Eagles get all of the play.... Honestly, as a true fan throughout all the years, this hurts me to see the Band struggle like this when IMO, they don't have to. Their are still loads of classic rock stations who would be happy to play the new cd as well as the rest of the catalog.

Kevin Elson.. it's Kevin Elson :wink:

by **Rockindeano** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:29 pm

ace wrote:
Rock'ndeano wrote:I see what you are trying to say. You have to remember Journey lost their "most identifiable" part; Perry.. And sadly, along with him goes a lot of noteriety.

However, with that being said, I am quick to blame management for lack of....anything. You have what I think to be an awful decision to do the giveaway at concerts(well, most anyway), and choose NOT to sell it at your own paid for website, where the profit would be maximized? This has nothing to do with Label, and I would love Andrew to interview not only the five members, but also Irving Azoff himself. (also, I would love to hear from Kevin Olsen, hint hint).. Ask him why their has been hardly a "push" from Azoff Mgt. for the last five years, save for the 2001 DVD? Ask him why the Eagles get all of the play.... Honestly, as a true fan throughout all the years, this hurts me to see the Band struggle like this when IMO, they don't have to. Their are still loads of classic rock stations who would be happy to play the new cd as well as the rest of the catalog.

Kevin Elson.. it's Kevin Elson

yeah, I know, brain fart..I met the guy on the Frontiers tour..

by **Abitaman** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:20 pm

Journey's mgmt maybe high mighty, but they are not giving Journey the jsut dues.-ERIC

by **Rockindeano** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:28 pm

Abitaman wrote:Journey's mgmt maybe high mighty, but they are not giving Journey the jsut dues.-ERIC

I absolutely agree. By the way, Thank you so very much for the gift ERIC.. Nice job. You like Gens?

by **Abitaman** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 7:58 pm

Yes, check my review out at My review at mr.com-eric

by **Red13JoePa** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:54 pm

Not to bejealous of them but RockNDeano's right. The damn Eagles do get most of Azoff's doting, along with VH last year. I mean compared to the Eagles, JRNY's been a prolific, well-oiled new music-putting-out machine.
I don't think either JRNY or THE GLORIOUS SOUND OF THE VOICE will accept when the offer happens anyhow. Generations deserves the band's full attention now. 8 new songs at Irvine? Great. bring it on cuz management's not gonna do their part to get te new material heard.

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:56 pm

Rock'ndeano wrote: Ask him why their has been hardly a "push" from Azoff Mgt. for the last five years, save for the 2001 DVD?

Dude, what are you smoking?
What push for the 2001 dvd?
Both the 2001 and the GH dvd received practically zero promotion. Perry did a few radio spots (or maybe just the one with rock DJ, Uncle Joe Benson) in support of the GH release. The 2001 dvd had no support that I know of.
However, there was some limited promotion work done for "Arrival".

by **jrnyman28** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:32 am

The Eagles have given up on putting out and marketing new music....maybe thatis easier. Maybe Journey is too hard because they want to still be creative together. Journey is not just out there raping the audience for their cash. Have you SEEN the ticket prices for the Eagles??? And now they have the nerve to be on the Farewell Tour PART 1!!!! Irving is focussing on the Eagles because he can make serious money off them. Sad but true!

by **NealIsGod** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:50 am

You're forgetting "There's a Hole in the World Tonight". That's new! :wink:

I know what you mean, a new Eagles CD would be a great thing. I think the Farewell Tour I concept is BS, too. Milking their history to pay for their alimony and extravagant lifestyles. Sad to see.

by **Red13JoePa** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:59 am

Yea, Hole In The World's a real blazer.
PPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFffffffffffffffffffffffffffttttttttttttttttttttttttttt...

Oh, you were being sarcastic, NIG?

Thanks a lot, Azoff.
Beat it. Give Generations a 10th of the promo budget he earmarks for that damn Farewell I crap.

by **Rockindeano** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:56 am

Don Henley, when interviewed recently said, "We have no problems playing the hits."

Ok. So play them. That's as easy a marketing job you will ever see. A stage, lights and a few planes and motorcoaches, and the biggest rake you can find at your nearest Lowe's, and rake it in....

Journey could do that. Hell, they have as many hits as the Eagles. They could bill their tour as "Greatest Hits-All Night" or Departure Tour I etc..
The public would eat that up, and yes, they would play arenas for a farewell tour..

Like someone said earlier, Journey wants to still be creative. That's what makes it hard, plus the obvious fact that Perry is no longer visible..

However, having said that, it does not absolve Azoff Mgt. from being complacent..Hell, I don't know the contractual tie ins, but maybe Journey should break away if they can..Wasn't Perry who had the idea to go with Azoff? Hello? where's Perry now? Neal needs to do something. I say Neal because he is the captain, he is the most noteworthy. I would love to see Neal call Herbie, but Herbie is retired. There HAS to be someone else who is still hungry for business.

by **ohsherrie** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:43 am

Ummmmm, there was a VH1 BTM, a Before They Were Stars segment, some lame show about a blind date, a cable Free Per View, and an appearance on the CBS morning show to introduce the new line-up. That was more promotion than the GH cd got but the GH sold like hotcakes and nobody, or comparatively few if you prefer that terminology, cared about anything the new line-up did. It doesn't take a financial genius to figure out that there's not going to be much of an ROI in the new line-up.

by **Rockindeano** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:49 am

ohsherrie wrote:Ummmmm, there was a VH1 BTM, a Before They Were Stars segment, some lame show about a blind date, a cable Free Per View, and an appearance on the CBS morning show to introduce the new line-up. That was more promotion than the GH cd got but the GH sold like hotcakes and nobody, or comparatively few if you prefer that terminology, cared about anything the new line-up did. It doesn't take a financial genius to figure out that there's not going to be much of an ROI in the new line-up.

Well, I'm sorry but let me be the first to poke holes in your theory. The new lineup, otherwise known as Journey obviously won't sell as well as the 80's version therof; Having said that, the name, "Journey" will sell live Osherri, it will, and does to this day. Journey aren't talking about shelf products..we are talking about live live live..

I'm afraid that attempt at an inferior-less-Perry-Journey had merit, but you didn't really make a case. They are doing fine.

by **jrnyman28** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:50 am

OhSherrie is right that Arrival did get some promotion...and it certainly got better promotion than the GH DVD. it is true that nostalgia often beats "new", especially after a 10 year break and a line-up change.

BUT, I think things would go a little smoother now because Steve is no longer the new guy. He is no longer the guy replacing Perry. He is that lead singer of Journey and has been almost longer than Perry was. That would be one less hurdle to overcome today. The push back was huge for Arrival BECAUSE of Perry not being there. It was still new to everyone. But if Journey were to go on TV with this lineup, and start by saying things like "So, Steve's been a part of Journey for 7 years now..." the "fans" might feel a little more comfortable. Change is hard to deal with, but it rarely takes 7 years to adjust.

by **ohsherrie** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:29 am

But Deano, the topic I was addressing was the comparison of the promotion and resulting sales of the GH vs the work of the new lineup. The Journey name didn't help them sell anything then and it still isn't. They sell tickets to small venues because people want to hear the classic Journey songs, but most still don't want anything new from them.

Dave, I think the Journey name is still synonymous with Steve Perry to most people and always will be. I don't think any amount of PR is going to change that. If his voice was just "a good voice" like most other Rock frontmen they might be able to overcome his legacy, but we're talking about one of the strongest and most distinctive vocal presences in the business.

by **jrnyman28** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:50 am

ohsherrie wrote:The Journey name didn't help them sell anything then and it still isn't.

I think the Journey name is still synonymous with Steve Perry to most people and always will be.

These points seem contradictory to me. If Journey is synonymous with Perry (or vice versa) then the name alone should move units.

ohsherrie wrote:I don't think any amount of PR is going to change that. If his voice was just "a good voice" like most other Rock frontmen they might be able to overcome his legacy, but we're talking about one of the strongest and most distinctive vocal presences in the business.

Also true that Steve's voice is not as strong as Perry's. But it is good. It is better than MANY in the business. It is not Steve's voice that is hindering a recovery. And I don't think PR will change much, my point was that he issue is not as 'in your face' as it was when Steve joined. And reminding people of how long ago that was could comfort some people.

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:54 am

ohsherrie wrote:The Journey name didn't help them sell anything then and it still isn't.

The 2001 Journey dvd went gold.
A-ha!
Yeah, sure, the GH/Perry one sold more, but that wasn't the argument. You said they haven't sold anything and you're wrong.
Now eat it!

ohsherrie wrote:I think the Journey name is still synonymous with Steve Perry to most people and always will be.

Probably.
Who cares?

by **Rockindeano** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:03 pm

Yeah go figure.

See, girls, you all think us guys HATE Steve Perry. However, you are so wrong. I know for a fact, that NealisGod, the NobleCause, Abitaman, Red13, Hippie(you better agree fucker), and myself love Steve Perry and his voice, and his legacy. Right now, I told my girlfriend to get the hell out of here, I'm "listening to classic Journey with Steve P!"

Steve Perry should have his voice alone be inducted into the Hall of Fame. His legacy, which other "masculine guys(apparently, I'm not one), don't like, should be up there with Frank Sinatra and Barbs herself!

I am not kidding. Hearing this guy sing live, even 4 years past his peak, is giving me goosebumps! I am loving him. However, please HOTS, PF, and Lori, give the rest of the band some due..Neal Schon is one of the greats in the game still(Hall of Fame is imminent), and Jon Cain should be inducted for his songwriting ability alone. There wasn't a "Steve Perry and the Bay Area Four."..There was JOURNEY.I

I am pleading with both sides, to come together, and celebrate what is great. This isn't the NHL or the U.S.Congress., where there is so much dissension like Michael Jackson at recess...This is OUR family, and I know, I just know, that if HOTS and TheNobleCause came to a party I throw, we would get along. Let us remember for memories' sake what Perry did for us, and get pissed he is still not singing..because he was so good! And let's praise Deen and Steve Augeri too for helping the other faction go onward..Isn't "us versus them", meaning that we are divided when we fight any band that tries to say they are better than Journey? We are all fans of this Band, and if we did come together, we could blow past VanHalen, Bon Jovi, ZZtop,The Cars, and REO Speedwagon and Styx, and rightfully claim our place in the [b]ROCK n ROLL HALL OF FAME[/b], where we justly belong.

Until then, FUCK YOU CLEVELAND, OHIO, and fuck all you Journey dissenters....This is a true and talented band, and I love the fact we have so many critics....it tells me me we are doing something right!

I am sick and tired of hearing we don't belong in Cleveland. I am calling Bruce Springsteen . in the a.m., and am gonna ask him for his help..God knows Irving Azoff is getting a fucking pedicure or acid wash on his 95 yr old grill..Fuck that lazy bastard..I will get Journey in there one way or another. I will get run over by a freight train if need be! I am Goddamned serious. My life means something, and some Cleveland wack isn't taking away this Bands' accomplishments!

If I had to, at the end of my life, get run over by some freight train to get Journey in, I am there!

by **Red13JoePa** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 1:58 pm

(Stunned silence.)

Lip quivers.....

theatirically wiping away a tear with my index finger ala a retiring ballplayer's press conference.

My man!!! What a manifesto that is Dean. Can't add to it. Gotta read it again.

But in seriousness Deano raises a huge point. The thing that got me started on JRNY was the THE VOICE :wink:

era of the band. Obviously it's the biggest part of the band's legacy. Without IT there'd be no JRNY now. So don't get all of us wrong, I love the Perry era of JRNY and Perry solo. But am also THRILLED for the most part (with the exception of too few new releases) with what's gone since the voice went into ensemble singing.

by **Rockindeano** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:37 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:(Stunned silence.)

Lip quivers.....

theatirically wiping away a tear with my index finger ala a retiring ballplayer's press conference.

My man!!! What a manifesto that is Dean. Can't add to it. Gotta read it again.

But in seriousness Deano raises a huge point. The thing that got me started on JRNY was the THE VOICE era of the band. Obviously it's the biggest part of the band's legacy. Without IT there'd be no JRNY now. So don't get all of us wrong, I love the Perry era of JRNY and Perry solo. But am also THRILLED for the most part (with the exception of too few new releases) with what's gone since the voice went into ensemble singing.

Why the sarcassim? You don't like the fact I poured my inners out? I can only hope The Cause won't berate me for not talking rock n roll!!

by **Red13JoePa** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:07 am

Dude your inners look great on the board. Just joking about the way it made feel. moving.

nice post

MR

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