OT: MR Bassists?

[ProgRocker53]

Just got a bass and all the needed extras/accessories....

What are some fun and easy melodic/classic/prog rock songs to play as a beginner? Also, what are some good sites/DVDs/books I can get into that will help me with bass playing/music theory/composition?

[Rockindeano]

I learned bass lines for Don't Stop Believin' in 12 minutes.

[ProgRocker53]

I figured DSB would be an easy one... I have absolutely zero bass experience and I'm pretty sure I learned WCN by ear last night.

[tj]

Basic Bass playing is perhaps the easiest instrument to pick up. No chords, intricate rythyms, just one note at a time for the most part. Granted, there are some amazing bass players who do so much more, but its not like playing guitar, keyboards or drums.

I picked up the bass part for Message of Love in about an hour when TBF first came out. I had always found myself listening for the bass part in songs and then when I focused on it, it wasnt' too difficult.

[Liam]

Try pretty much ANYTHING from the Classic Styx. Not exactly easy...but you'll get it eventually. Something like Castle Walls would be good for a beginner. VERY easy bass line.

[strangegrey]

Basic Bass playing is perhaps the easiest instrument to pick up. No chords, intricate rythyms, just one note at a time for the most part...

This will get you in the front door of the bass club....but if you stop there, you'll either end up getting thrown out or worse, you'll find yourself in prog-bassist hell, where bassists really think they're guitarists.

The most difficult thing for any bassist to learn, including some pros out there....is when to apply restraint, and serve the song. The bass, unlike any other instrument in the band (other than drums) needs to serve the song 150% of the time. If I get a bassist that walks into the room auditioning for a band I'm in...and he fails to lock with the drummer, but at the same time, rips amazing bass solo licks, he's usually sent out packing after one song.

If you want to learn bass, the best thing you can do is swallow your ambitions of being a geddy lee or a billy sheehan...and instead, learn/strive to become a bassist like Hughie MacDonald (Bon Jovi's bassist), Ross Valory or whoever that bald guy playing for Keith Urban these days is (forgot his name)....all three of the above guys KNOW how to play bass. They respect the song, play the song, provide a 10 foot thick concrete foundation of bass....and NEVER show off unless someone puts a gun to their head.

That impresses me 100 times over than anything that fucking nostrile-face dickwad canadian Geddy Lee could EVER do.

Learn to support the rest of the band....and you'll be SO in demand, as a bassist, that you'll never have to work another day in your life....I'm not kidding there. If I wasn't such an egotistical fuckwad guitarist(I grew up praying to Neal Schon, how can you blame me?!), I'd switch to bass and play out every night for lots of cash.

[stevew2]

I learned bass lines for Don't Stop Believin' in 12 minutes.

I want to hear it,post a clip !! Shit go ahead sing it for us,we dont have a singer anyway

[conversationpc]

That impresses me 100 times over than anything that fucking nostrile-face dickwad canadian Geddy Lee could EVER do.

Nah...I love Lee's playing. He's my favorite on the instrument and I don't think he necessarily over-complicates things. A bassist like Ross just wouldn't work in Rush and vice-versa.

[strangegrey]

That impresses me 100 times over than anything that fucking nostrile-face dickwad canadian Geddy Lee could EVER do.

Nah...I love Lee's playing. He's my favorite on the instrument and I don't think he necessarily over-complicates things. A bassist like Ross just wouldn't work in Rush and vice-versa.

Anyone can wank like Geddy Lee...thats the least impressive thing about bassists....Rush's music is tailored around his playing. Geddy in another context, doesn't work (unless Geddy tailors his playing to the context and not the other way around).

The problem I have with Rush is that they have spoiled, literally, an entire generation of bassists...too many fucking 4 stringers think they've got some manifest destiny in sacrificing the pocket, just so they can play a guitar lick on an instrument that doesn't complement the lick in the first place.

When all they should have been doing to impress me, was to stay in the fucking pocket....and never let go unless someone had a gun to their head.

I lose alot of respect for a bassist that can't seem to get it through their skull that the pocket is where they do their job.....Geddy Lee is a good example of such a bassist.

[conversationpc]

Anyone can wank like Geddy Lee...thats the least impressive thing about bassists....Rush's music is tailored around his playing. Geddy in another context, doesn't work (unless Geddy tailors his playing to the context and not the other way around).

I've been a Rush fan for quite a while now and I've never gotten the impression that their music is tailored around his playing. It's really tailored around the talents of the entire band. The only argument you could possibly make in this area is that the music is tailored around Geddy AND Neil's playing. Even then, their entire catalogue is full of great stuff by Lifeson as well. The only album that I might say was tailored around Lee would be "Power Windows", which is consequently, one of their hidden gems, in my opinion.

I lose alot of respect for a bassist that can't seem to get it through their skull that the pocket is where they do their job.....Geddy Lee is a good example of such a bassist.

Geddy Lee is a good example of a bassist that breaks the mold and does something a little different from the mold, rather than a guy like Michael Anthony, for example. Not a bad player and I really like the guy, but he could stand to be a LITTLE more adventurous. Then again, with bulbous heads like EVH's and DLR's, that probably wasn't an option.

Anyway, I love this attitude about how certain instruments should only do certain things within a band context. Isn't rock 'n roll supposed to be all about breaking the rules? Why not have a guy like Lee that can lay down a solid bass line OR something a bit more complex, which he can certainly do. His stuff in the 80s was probably more as you described but he's been more laid back on their mid 90s stuff up until the current day. I'm not saying that's for every band, because it isn't but it seems like some of the people who are so rah-rah about rock 'n roll being so noncomformist are some of the same people who seem to be the most restrictive and staid.

I like what the following says about the band...

http://www.weizmann.ac.il/home/comartin/rush.html

Q: What makes Rush greater than the sum of of its parts?
A: Unbelievably tight ensemble playing, for one. Many prog-rock outfits (Dream Theater being the most obvious exception) sound like everybody is soloing through each other, and many hard rock outfits like the rest of the band is just backing for the singer and the lead guitarist. None of that with Rush. Musical complementarity in every respect is matched by deep and lasting personal friendships.

[Journey/Survivor]

Just got a bass and all the needed extras/accessories....

What are some fun and easy melodic/classic/prog rock songs to play as a beginner? Also, what are some good sites/DVDs/books I can get into that will help me with bass playing/music theory/composition?

As much as I've grown to hate the song over the years "Mustang Sally" is a simple song to play on the bass.

[stevew2]

Bass may be easy to play,but if it goes out on a gig ,the rest of the band feels like there dick just fell out of there BVDs I ve experienced this first hand. You can go with out keys and guitar,lose the bass and drums you are "unplugged" ;Unless it is planned that way,the band looks like shit with no bass or drums.

[Rick]

Bass may be easy to play,but if it goes out on a gig ,the rest of the band feels like there dick just fell out of there BVDs I ve experienced this first hand. You can go with out keys and guitar,lose the bass and drums you are "unplugged" ;Unless it is planned that way,the band looks like shit with no bass or drums.

Excellent analogy.

[conversationpc]

Bass may be easy to play,but if it goes out on a gig ,the rest of the band feels like there dick just fell out of there BVDs I ve experienced this first hand. You can go with out keys and guitar,lose the bass and drums you are "unplugged" ;Unless it is planned that way,the band looks like shit with no bass or drums.

Excellent analogy.

The first band where I ever noticed the bass much at all was Led Zeppelin. I still love some of those bass lines by John Paul Jones. I always thought he was very underrated and, looking back, was probably the best musician in that group.

[Marc S]

If you're starting out go buy a 5-string bass with the extra low B, bit of a headswerve to start with but sure gives the whole band a deep gutsy feel especially if you have a keyboard player hitting the same registers - I bought one of the first MusicMan 5's in the the UK in 1986 and never looked back. The single most important thing is to play with a solid, simple but effective drummer. Learn to lock in with the snare and kick patterns. All of the best and most effective basslines do this, period. There are some fantastic players (Geddy Lee/Billy Sheehan/Mike Porcaro etc) who are very busy but really have 'the groove'. If you can't feel the underlying groove and cant follow a good drummer, maybe think again. Twiddly bassists and fall-down-stairs drummers who can't keep time and syncopate are like a plane crash. Best thing you can do early on is to learn 12-bar boogie and play along with anything from Elvis to chuck Berry.

[Rockindeano]

Fucking brilliant avatar. Might as well make it official and trade that Retard to the Carpet Pilots. He is so fuckin' stupid, I refuse to acknowledge him as President.

[strangegrey]

Anyone can wank like Geddy Lee...thats the least impressive thing about bassists....Rush's music is tailored around his playing. Geddy in another context, doesn't work (unless Geddy tailors his playing to the context and not the other way around).

I've been a Rush fan for quite a while now and I've never gotten the impression that their music is tailored around his playing. It's really tailored around the talents of the entire band. The only argument you could possibly make in this area is that the music is tailored around Geddy AND Neil's playing. Even then, their entire catalogue is full of great stuff by Lifeson as well. The only album that I might say was tailored around Lee would be "Power Windows", which is consequently, one of their hidden gems, in my opinion.

Absolutely, the band's music is tailored to Geddy's playing. Look at their recent covers album (ugh, fucking covers albums!!! another thread though)....They took those songs and reworked them to fit into Rush's mold. A HUGE percentage of the Rush mold is Geddy Lee's bass playing...It's unique, I will give you that...and that's the draw to it. But too many bass players have used Rush as a template for their own music....only to forget that Geddy Lee is a very good bassist that STILL needs bass pedals in play when he gets all "I'm going to be a guitarist now" and does silly stuff up on the neck.

I lose alot of respect for a bassist that can't seem to get it through their skull that the pocket is where they do their job.....Geddy Lee is a good example of such a bassist.

Geddy Lee is a good example of a bassist that breaks the mold and does something a little different from the mold, rather than a guy like Michael Anthony, for example. Not a bad player and I really like the guy, but he could stand to be a LITTLE more adventurous. Then again, with bulbous heads like EVH's and DLR's, that probably wasn't an option.

Eh, That's a tough example. I firmly believe that VH doesn't work with a Billy Sheehan style bassist....The ONLY way that would work is significant orchestration....and that goes against the way Eddie plays. Because Eddie is all over the place, Mike (or the fat fucking nepo lip syncer that replaced him) needs to remain extremely pocket oriented...and nothing else. Mikey is a great example of a pocket player. Again, that impresses me more than watching Geddy play some stupid guitar lick.

Anyway, I love this attitude about how certain instruments should only do certain things within a band context. Isn't rock 'n roll supposed to be all about breaking the rules?

That type of statement is what is usually stated to justify such a thing. Am I inclined to agree with you? In principle, yes. I do agree with you. In practice, it's an entirely different thing however. I stated above that Rush makes heavy use of Bass Pedals in their live performance. That's no accident. They NEED those pedals in there to keep the pocket alive, while Geddy needs to self justify. That's not a good thing in my opinion....because it suggests that when Geddy does decide to wank....they need help because Geddy left the pocket hanging with it's dick in the wind. Same thing goes for Yes. I LOVE squire's playing....but make no mistake, when Squire does what he does, Wakeman, Kaye, Rabin, Sherwood or that Russian guy...or whomever you've seen with the band....is covering Chris's ass while Chris leaves the pocket.

In fact, the only band that comes to mind, with a bass player that wanks....without the need for additional ochesttral help...Is Mr Big. Billy Sheehan is all over the place....and you don't really see Paul Gilbert covering his ass. Reason. Because even when Billy plays up on the neck, he's STILL in the pocket. He's probably the most gifted bassist in the world...he can keep a band totally in the pocket on the 14th fret of his bass. He's that good....

The analogy by stevew2 is perfectly stated in that when a bassist decides to forget about the pocket to become a self serving soloist fuckwad, he does so at the expense of the rest of the band....when a bass player leaves the pocket, the whole fucking thing, the song, the other players, even the drumer, gets completely lost. A sign of a good band, is one that is able to recover from a bassist being a fuckwad. In fact, Bon Jovi, prior to Hugh MacDonald joining them for live shows, was a good example. They kept Alec Such so low in the mix that you didn't notice it....but the rest of the band still had to deal with him...granted he lost the pocket because he technically wasnt very good....not because he tried to be a guitarist.


Regardless....and getting back to the OP. There's ALOT more subtlety to playing bass....and thats what makes a bassist a good bassist....a good friend of mine has been a geddy lee wanna be since I've known him. Another bassist I know, who happens to play for a big name band in MR....calls him 'Groove Killer"....tells you something...

-F

[Deb]

In fact, the only band that comes to mind, with a bass player that wanks....without the need for additional ochesttral help...Is Mr Big. Billy Sheehan is all over the place....and you don't really see Paul Gilbert covering his ass. Reason. Because even when Billy plays up on the neck, he's STILL in the pocket. He's probably the most gifted bassist in the world...he can keep a band totally in the pocket on the 14th fret of his bass. He's that good....

The analogy by stevew2 is perfectly stated in that when a bassist decides to forget about the pocket to become a self serving soloist fuckwad, he does so at the expense of the rest of the band....when a bass player leaves the pocket, the whole fucking thing, the song, the other players, even the drumer, gets completely lost. A sign of a good band, is one that is able to recover from a bassist being a fuckwad. In fact, Bon Jovi, prior to Hugh MacDonald joining them for live shows, was a good example. They kept Alec Such so low in the mix that you didn't notice it....but the rest of the band still had to deal with him...granted he lost the pocket because he technically wasnt very good....not because he tried to be a guitarist.


-F

Not that I know anything whatsoever about playing bass, but IMO you're bang on with your Mr. Big and Bon Jovi examples.

[conversationpc]

Absolutely, the band's music is tailored to Geddy's playing. Look at their recent covers album (ugh, fucking covers albums!!! another thread though)....They took those songs and reworked them to fit into Rush's mold. A HUGE percentage of the Rush mold is Geddy Lee's bass playing...It's unique, I will give you that...and that's the draw to it.

I usually despise covers albums also. Rush's "Feedback" is the only one in my collection that I like, though. To tell the truth, I only have that one and a couple of other cover albums anyway, just because I'm typically not interested in buying them. Besides that, when I listen to Rush, and I've been listening to them intently for many years now, I've never gotten the feeling that, overall, their music is tailored any more to Geddy's playing than it is to Peart's, for instance, other than a song or two here or there or a couple of albums from the 80s like "Power Windows". Fortunately, their last several albums have been more guitar-heavy, instead of that synth phase they went through from "Signals" through "Roll the Bones" (although they were toned down on "Presto" and "Roll the Bones).

But too many bass players have used Rush as a template for their own music....only to forget that Geddy Lee is a very good bassist that STILL needs bass pedals in play when he gets all "I'm going to be a guitarist now" and does silly stuff up on the neck...

...I stated above that Rush makes heavy use of Bass Pedals in their live performance. That's no accident. They NEED those pedals in there to keep the pocket alive, while Geddy needs to self justify. That's not a good thing in my opinion....because it suggests that when Geddy does decide to wank....they need help because Geddy left the pocket hanging with it's dick in the wind. Same thing goes for Yes. I LOVE squire's playing....but make no mistake, when Squire does what he does, Wakeman, Kaye, Rabin, Sherwood or that Russian guy...or whomever you've seen with the band....is covering Chris's ass while Chris leaves the pocket.

Isn't that what is supposed to happen, though? When a guitarist in a one guitar band plays a solo, doesn't somebody have to fill the void, so to speak? If it happens with other instruments, why can't it happen for the bassist?

I may be wrong here but aren't the bass pedals only typically used when he is busy playing a keyboard part? I'd have to go watch my "Rush in Rio" DVD to verify that, though. Again, your definition of "silly" doesn't hold water because someone else might actually enjoy it or it may not phase them one way or the other. Eye of the beholder type stuff, really.

Anyway, here is a statement by Lee on his use of bass pedals...

"You’re known for using bass pedals quite often. Do you like to play them or would you always play just bass guitar if you could?

It usually seems like the pedals are a last resort, but there are times when I could be playing bass and I opt to play pedals, just because I like the dynamic textural change. On “Show Don’t Tell” [Presto], I could easily play bass guitar during the choruses and trigger other things with my foot, but I really like the way the bottom end of the room opens up with those big pedal notes. Now, with samplers, I can play pedal sounds on the keyboard and I don’t need to use my feet."

Boy, one band that needs someone to fill the hole, though, is Foreigner. I've only seem them live twice and I have one live DVD, but their live sound seems to be missing something.

The analogy by stevew2 is perfectly stated in that when a bassist decides to forget about the pocket to become a self serving soloist fuckwad, he does so at the expense of the rest of the band....when a bass player leaves the pocket, the whole fucking thing, the song, the other players, even the drumer, gets completely lost.

Totally agreed with most bands. Not with Rush, however.

Regardless....and getting back to the OP. There's ALOT more subtlety to playing bass....and thats what makes a bassist a good bassist....a good friend of mine has been a geddy lee wanna be since I've known him. Another bassist I know, who happens to play for a big name band in MR....calls him 'Groove Killer"....tells you something...

That tells me something about THAT bassist, not Lee.

Again, there are certainly a lot of bands where a bassist like Lee wouldn't work at all. It works for Rush, though, for whatever reason. It works for Yes and there are a few other bands like that. There are also bands that have just one guitarist and you don't really ever miss the second player. Journey is a good example of that. Then there are bands with just one guitarist and it doesn't really work all that well. In the end, it really depends on the kind of music the band is playing and how good the players are.