The Rolie Perry Era

[bluejeangirl76]

The problem is, besides Largo do they have anthing else on usable film from that time.

I refuse to accept that to be true.
I believe there's a lot of buried shit somewhere.

(Its the only way I can sleep at night!)

[Matthew]

So let's have some gratitude and love for the man who still makes it all happen.

Agreed!!! Thank you, Neal Schon. I didn't respond to the rest of your post because it was too laughable and non-sensical.

I wonder what it was that made you move over to the dark side, Saint John. There you were..writing one sensible post after another like a person of sound mind and good musical taste..and then...bam! ...almost overnight you turned into this cringing and moronic apologist for the post-Perry era...so much so that you even put even the old school Augeri fanatics to shame.

I don't believe for a second that after two decades of Perry fandom you've suddenly gone cold on the music. And nor do I buy your claim that you've suddenly 'seen the light' that Perry was a difficult and complicated guy who could be both extaordinarily creative...and destructive too. All of this was common knowledge.

So what was it? Are you one of those guys whose entire belief system implodes at the sight of a backstage pass and an autographed t-shirt? Was there some clique of posters here you wanted to impress? Or have you just become all twisted up inside as you've got older that you'll never be a supremely talented multi-millionaire who can take it easy for the rest of his life?

Come on Saint John..try and be honest for a change about this 'conversion experience' of yours.

-I still love the music from Perry's time in the band and have never waivered from that stance once.

-lol...Believe it or not, but I don't think I have EVER in my life bought a concert t-shirt. I own none...not one. And backstage passes impress me so much that I gave away the last one I had. No interest in meeting the guys unless it's a chance encounter and they seem legitimately intersted in what the fuck I have to say. I hate when people bother me and suspect that they do also.

-As for being "honest" I've always tried to be nothing but that...whether that ruffles the feathers of friends or not...and often times it has. Probably cost me a few as well. Do you honestly think I want to hang out with Schon and Cain??? Give me a fucking break, dude. Arnel is about the only one I'd like to meet, perhaps shake his hand and congratulate him. That's it. You can stop the Sigmund Freud act, too.

And with that blast of hot air...the mystery of Saint John's conversion continues....

[Tito]

I thought Herbie claimed Perry basically put Valory in bankruptcy in one of his interviews.

Wow...you're really taking the whole victimhood angle to a new level here. Where did Herbert say that?

Not quite half way down the page. http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/page15.html

Smith had nothing to do with himself being fired.

Well, Smith himself has recognised his part in the breakdown of relations during ROR - and he talks completely without bitterness about it. But fans like you persist in patronizing the guy...

I don't ever remember him blaming himself for that. Even on the BTM he said, he takes pride in his musicianship and his feelings being hurt.

[Matthew]

[
Not quite half way down the page. http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/page15.html

Come on Tito...that is a seriously epic interview. How about a simple cut and paste job here?

I don't ever remember him blaming himself for that. Even on the BTM he said, he takes pride in his musicianship and his feelings being hurt.

Okay - in return I'll track down the quote from Smith that demonstrate that he owned his part in the ROR meltdown...

[Tito]

It's on that page. Go between a 1/4 and 1/2 page down it's there. It won't let me copy and paste.

[Matthew]

It's on that page. Go between a 1/4 and 1/2 page down it's there. It won't let me copy and paste.

Valory went bankrupt and Cain nearly lost everything because Perry wouldn't tour immediately after finishing the Frontiers tour?

Both those guys had just been involved in two of the biggest albums/tours in the history of American rock music...a total financial bonanza between 1981-1983...and Perry is to blame for them losing their money as early as 1984?

Well...it surprises me that Herbert didn't advise Valoary and Cain to...er, SAVE SOME MONEY....and to not take it for granted that their meal ticket was going to tour EVERY YEAR. What this section of the interview reveals more than anything is a failure of management...

[S2M]

His body, his decision.....no need to say anything further about it. His owes NOBODY an explanation.

Anywhooo....Perry/Rolie era was the best, BY FAR.

[Tito]

It's on that page. Go between a 1/4 and 1/2 page down it's there. It won't let me copy and paste.

Valory went bankrupt and Cain nearly lost everything because Perry wouldn't tour immediately after finishing the Frontiers tour?

Both those guys had just been involved in two of the biggest albums/tours in the history of American rock music...a total financial bonanza between 1981-1983...and Perry is to blame for them losing their money as early as 1984?

Well...it surprises me that Herbert didn't advise Valoary and Cain to...er, SAVE SOME MONEY....and to not take it for granted that their meal ticket was going to tour EVERY YEAR. What this section of the interview reveals more than anything is a failure of management...

Correct! Management should've fired the employee Steve Perry in '84.

[Matthew]

It's on that page. Go between a 1/4 and 1/2 page down it's there. It won't let me copy and paste.

Valory went bankrupt and Cain nearly lost everything because Perry wouldn't tour immediately after finishing the Frontiers tour?

Both those guys had just been involved in two of the biggest albums/tours in the history of American rock music...a total financial bonanza between 1981-1983...and Perry is to blame for them losing their money as early as 1984?

Well...it surprises me that Herbert didn't advise Valoary and Cain to...er, SAVE SOME MONEY....and to not take it for granted that their meal ticket was going to tour EVERY YEAR. What this section of the interview reveals more than anything is a failure of management...

Correct! Management should've fired the employee Steve Perry in '84.

That would have been a lucrative move....

So Tito...who would they have hired instead? And spare me ...'Augeri would have been great had he been the right age...etc..etc'. Or...'there must have been hundreds of great singers around but I won't name even one....' or any other of the hundreds of half-assed evasive answers I've heard over the years to this simple question.

Just give me a name of someone who could have filled those shoes at the height of Journey's popularity...

By the way...if you want to read an interview with Smith about a) the lessons he learned after ROR which helped him become a better band member during TBF b) how it was Perry, Schon and Cain who shut him out in 1986 and not just Perry and c) how he's moved on from being resentful about getting fired (unlike you)...then here's an interesting interview with Smith from 1997:

http://www.cavemanproductions.com/REVS/ssmithiv.html

[Tito]

So Tito...who would they have hired instead? And spare me ...'Augeri would have been great had he been the right age...etc..etc'. Or...'there must have been hundreds of great singers around but I won't name even one....' or any other of the hundreds of half-assed evasive answers I've heard over the years to this simple question.

Just give me a name of someone who could have filled those shoes at the height of Journey's popularity...

Names:
these were banty about back in the day in 1987 if I recall:
Kevin Chalfant, Michael Bolton, Mickey Thomas, Eric Martin and there were others that I can't recall. With the exception of Thomas, the others at that time were basic unknowns.

They could've plucked a handful of people from the minor leagues (2nd tier) like Van Halen did with Hagar. Hell, they could've beaten VH and took Hagar. By the way, again thank god Diamond didn't die today. Anyway, if we're talking about '84, they could've scooped Jimi Jamison (Survivor or Journey - who would you choose), maybe had a huge merger with Lou Gramm or Bryan Adams (opened Frontiers tour could've been the next Jon Cain story), Mike Reno, John Waite, etc. Many people especially if they think out of the box. Also, the Sheriff/Alias singer, Fred something Curci?. Joe Lynn Turner is another one. Anyone they wanted.

[Matthew]

Kevin Chalfant

He would have been dismissed as a clone...

Michael Bolton

Has never shown any inclination to be in a band...plus his work with Schon and Cain in 1987 was pretty uninspired...

Mickey Thomas

Have you heard the Starship version of DSB? Horrendous...

Eric Martin

In 1984?

They could've plucked a handful of people from the minor leagues (2nd tier) like Van Halen did with Hagar.

Hagar wasn't minor league, Tito...

Hell, they could've beaten VH and took Hagar.

Have you ever heard a Journey record before?

Anyway, if we're talking about '84, they could've scooped Jimi Jamison (Survivor or Journey - who would you choose)

Rightly or wrongly...both Jamison and Survivor were seen as a second-division version of Journey in those days. This would have made the Augeri controversy seem like small potatoes...although I do personally love Jamison's voice.

maybe had a huge merger with Lou Gramm

A Journey and Foreigner supergroup? Interesting idea...but good for only one album and tour at best...even if the respective fan bases would have accepted it.

John Waite

Well, we had that in 1989 pretty much and the reaction was disappointment across the board as I remember...

Joe Lynn Turner is another one.

He's by far the most credible candidate you've mentioned, Tito. You know...that might just have worked...although Rainbow and JLT never really cracked America did they? Classic AOR acts but never crossed over from the genre into the mainstream particularly. Still...JLT was a fantastic singer.

[Tito]

Hell, they could've beaten VH and took Hagar.

Have you ever heard a Journey record before?

Have you heard "Your love is driving me Crazy" and other Hagar songs from that era? What about HSAS, "Missing You" or "He Will Understand."

Anyway, if we're talking about '84, they could've scooped Jimi Jamison (Survivor or Journey - who would you choose)

Rightly or wrongly...both Jamison and Survivor were seen as a second-division version of Journey in those days. This would have made the Augeri controversy seem like small potatoes...although I do personally love Jamison's voice.

Jamison would've worked and he never would've been in Survivor. This would've been the same time both bands would've changed singers. Jamison certainly would've chose Journey over Survivor, if given the opportunity.

maybe had a huge merger with Lou Gramm

A Journey and Foreigner supergroup? Interesting idea...but good for only one album and tour at best...even if the respective fan bases would have accepted it.

This probably wouldn't have been possible in 1984. 1987 and definitelyy later would've been more possible. My timeline was a little off when through this one out.

John Waite

Well, we had that in 1989 pretty much and the reaction was disappointment across the board as I remember...

It was NOT a disappointment. A very sucessful record. Had hit singles, #1 song if I recall and another Top 5. 5 in the Top 40? Plus, depending on how they wanted to time it, they could've done this right after Missing You and parlayed that success into a new Journey album.

Also, don't forgot my Bryan Adams suggestion.

Joe Lynn Turner is another one.

He's by far the most credible candidate you've mentioned, Tito. You know...that might just have worked...although Rainbow and JLT never really cracked America did they? Classic AOR acts but never crossed over from the genre into the mainstream particularly. Still...JLT was a fantastic singer.

They had a couple songs that did well and you still hear them played. JLT would've worked.

Another one I forgot is Steve Walsh of Kansas. His voice may have been shot back then too though. Someone once told me, he was almost the new singer of Survivor after Bickler. Anyone out there can you confirm or deny this? If not him, maybe the second singer from Kansas.

[S2M]

Elefante?

That guy sucked in Kansas, and pretty much everywhere else.....Dino, and John could fall off the earth and no one would notice....

[Tito]

Elefante?

That guy sucked in Kansas, and pretty much everywhere else.....Dino, and John could fall off the earth and no one would notice....

I don't know man, they had some good songs with him.

[Matthew]

Have you heard "Your love is driving me Crazy" and other Hagar songs from that era? What about HSAS, "Missing You" or "He Will Understand."

They sound like generic AOR records to me. I'm not sure you really feel that Journey were that special, Tito...

Jamison would've worked and he never would've been in Survivor. This would've been the same time both bands would've changed singers. Jamison certainly would've chose Journey over Survivor, if given the opportunity.

Good point...

A very sucessful record. Had hit singles, #1 song if I recall and another Top 5. 5 in the Top 40? Plus, depending on how they wanted to time it, they could've done this right after Missing You and parlayed that success into a new Journey album.

I know they had their huge hit...but the consensus was that the album wasn't as good as most people hoped it would be. I was certainly disappointed myself. Also - much as I love Waite I don't think he had the range and depth to pull off the Journey catalogue.

Also, don't forgot my Bryan Adams suggestion.

Again - there's no evidence that Adams was ever interested in joining a band. Also - you can't just name every name in the AOR telephone directory,Tito. Journey weren't just another melodic rock band with an anonymous style and approach which anyone could fit into...

Another one I forgot is Steve Walsh of Kansas. His voice may have been shot back then too though. Someone once told me, he was almost the new singer of Survivor after Bickler. Anyone out there can you confirm or deny this? If not him, maybe the second singer from Kansas.

If you think the Power album by Kansas is better than Raised on Radio then you are barking mad....or just not much of a Journey fan.

Honestly..I'm glad you weren't managing the group. You would have turned the most extraordinary band in the field into some dime-a-dozen club act within two years.

[S2M]

Agreed, Journey would've been worse than 'Streets'....and Streets were HORRIFIC!

BUT....Remember that Richard Page(of Mister Mister fame) was offered to replace Bobby Kimball in Toto, and to replace Cetera in Chicago after he left....

That's a name that would've fit in well with Journey.

[ProgRocker53]

lol Power.

who talks about post-Monolith Kansas anyway?

[S2M]

lol Power.

who talks about post-Monolith Kansas anyway?

Dave does.....especially, 'In the Spirit of Things'....

[S2M]

And besides.....who said it HAD to have been a MALE vocalist? Hmmmm....?

Rindy Ross(Quarterflash) would've done great. So there!

[Matthew]

And besides.....who said it HAD to have been a MALE vocalist? Hmmmm....?

Rindy Ross(Quarterflash) would've done great. So there!

Are you sure about that, Stockton?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha5DxCSVpvs

[Don]

And besides.....who said it HAD to have been a MALE vocalist? Hmmmm....?

Rindy Ross(Quarterflash) would've done great. So there!

Dont forget Patty Smyth (who VAN Halen wanted, until she got pregnant)
but Rindi is awesome

[Matthew]

And besides.....who said it HAD to have been a MALE vocalist? Hmmmm....?

Rindy Ross(Quarterflash) would've done great. So there!

Dont forget Patty Smyth (who VAN Halen wanted, until she got pregnant)
but Rindi is awesome

Yes...and maybe they could have auditioned Stevie Nicks or Olivia Newton-John or Agnetha from ABBA...or maybe even my mum...

[ProgRocker53]

lol Power.

who talks about post-Monolith Kansas anyway?

Dave does.....especially, 'In the Spirit of Things'....

that album bores me

[RisingForce73]

Elefante?

That guy sucked in Kansas, and pretty much everywhere else.....Dino, and John could fall off the earth and no one would notice....

I don't know man, they had some good songs with him.

Agreed, Tito.

"Play The Game Tonight"
"Fire With Fire"
"Chasing Shadows"

even "Perfect Lover" off their greatest hits package, which has since been deleted

Elefante was too into the contemporary Christian genre though. Probably wouldn't have worked out, but the guy could sing.

[RisingForce73]

If you think the Power album by Kansas is better than Raised on Radio then you are barking mad....or just not much of a Journey fan.

You have to admit that Steve Walsh sounded great on Power. He sounds horrible now though, and I am a huge fan.

[Don]

And besides.....who said it HAD to have been a MALE vocalist? Hmmmm....?

Rindy Ross(Quarterflash) would've done great. So there!

Dont forget Patty Smyth (who VAN Halen wanted, until she got pregnant)
but Rindi is awesome

Yes...and maybe they could have auditioned Stevie Nicks or Olivia Newton-John or Agnetha from ABBA...or maybe even my mum...

Good call, but I would go with Frida myself

[Tito]

A very sucessful record. Had hit singles, #1 song if I recall and another Top 5. 5 in the Top 40? Plus, depending on how they wanted to time it, they could've done this right after Missing You and parlayed that success into a new Journey album.

I know they had their huge hit...but the consensus was that the album wasn't as good as most people hoped it would be. I was certainly disappointed myself. Also - much as I love Waite I don't think he had the range and depth to pull off the Journey catalogue.

I don't know about that. I think it's a great CD. I like every song on that disc, of course some better than others.

Also, don't forgot my Bryan Adams suggestion.

Again - there's no evidence that Adams was ever interested in joining a band. Also - you can't just name every name in the AOR telephone directory,Tito. Journey weren't just another melodic rock band with an anonymous style and approach which anyone could fit into...

I understand, but if offered he may have taken the job. Could you imagine Reckless being a Journey album. Holy shit. They would have had two overplayed songs DSB and Summer of '69. Also, we could name everyone. And they would've taken it, unless they didn't have balls.

Another one I forgot is Steve Walsh of Kansas. His voice may have been shot back then too though. Someone once told me, he was almost the new singer of Survivor after Bickler. Anyone out there can you confirm or deny this? If not him, maybe the second singer from Kansas.

If you think the Power album by Kansas is better than Raised on Radio then you are barking mad....or just not much of a Journey fan.

Honestly..I'm glad you weren't managing the group. You would have turned the most extraordinary band in the field into some dime-a-dozen club act within two years.

It would have been a different album. All he had to do is sing and co-write. They still had the master, Cain and Schon.

[Tito]

Agreed, Journey would've been worse than 'Streets'....and Streets were HORRIFIC!

BUT....Remember that Richard Page(of Mister Mister fame) was offered to replace Bobby Kimball in Toto, and to replace Cetera in Chicago after he left....

That's a name that would've fit in well with Journey.

That's another name. Broken Wings is one of the greatest songs of all time. Kyrie is a fun song, nothing more nothing less.