Week Seven Revelation Sales - Complete

[mdaemon]

Hiya all. I just thought I'd provide a quick and unsolicited sanity check. I know that right now it would appear to be all unicorns and rainbows for the current lineup of Journey. They're doing great at the gate, as they always do. The "dirty dozen" will assure that every time out. The new Revelations package has moved a respectable number of units although when you remove the RIAA technicalities, they've really only moved some 300k or so actual units. Again, unicorns and rainbows courtesy of RIAA spec but respectable numbers nonetheless.

Anywho, I just feel compelled to point out that the success of this package really doesn't have anything to do with anything newly written or re-recorded. The buzz around Journey right now continues to be fed by one of the dirtiest of the dozen - "Don't Stop Believin'". That song has been hovering in and around the top of the iTunes charts for several years now thanks to some timely placement in hit television shows. It's a monster hit at the karaoke bars, which makes it all the more fitting that Journey would release an official karaoke version of it. Also, it doesn't take rocket surgery to figure out that when a classic band such as Journey hits the road, their entire catalog is going to get some movement. Enjoy.

It's probably safe to say that people aren't perusing the music section at Wal Mart and snatching the new Journey album up because they've heard anything new or that it features a new singer. They are probably longtime fans who see a new product that just happens to contain a bonus cache of some of their favorite songs. They probably don't read far enough into it to realize that they're re-recorded but they don't care. In the end, it's those songs that brought them to this point and they are content.

So anyway, I'll let you guys get back to Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Journey. Oh and that ZVUE player? Stay far, far away from it if you value quality at all. 6 hour batter life and nightmare navigation.

Very good points!

Very good points indeed. This record is selling because of DSB and the Walmart deal; period. The CBS and Ellen shows didn't help at all as the audience were all sleeping; Arnel's story and talent shouldn't even be mentioned because *anybody* can sing a Journey catalog and everybody has a sob story that sells; and, the album and the band suck as all the reviews were all negative. It's all about that one song because the buying public are DUMB that they are buying Revelation and not fucking Escape to listen to DSB!

Goodness people, give credit to where and whom it is due.

[lights1961]

good sales so far. Iam impressed---this is when you know that PRICE SELLS...


Rick

[jrnyman28]

Most definitely a combination of events. It is true that DSB has created a certain buzz for the band over the past several years. But honestly, DSB didn't do that much for the band when releasing Generations! DSB may have kept the name "out there" but the band has not only capitalized on that, but added fuel to the fire by hiring a very talented singer through a rather newsworthy way, they packaged a great VALUE with the largest retailer in the US and they have continued to build a solid tourbase for the past 10 friggin' years......

[7 Wishes]

ROCKET SURGERY????

Great...Clemens is attempting another comeback.

You mean ROCKETT surgery. The sooner Poison disappears forever, the better. Yech.

[Saint John]

ROCKET SURGERY????

Great...Clemens is attempting another comeback.

You mean ROCKETT surgery. The sooner Poison disappears forever, the better. Yech.

Oh c'mon, Dan. You know damn well you were jamming to Unskinny Bop while cruising around in your 1989 IROC.

[7 Wishes]

Christ, I did have an IROC. I am Italian, after all.

That was right after my '78 Celica died...actually, it was made before rust-proofing, and I stepped in the car one day, and my foot went through the floorboards. It was interesting.

But no, I never liked anything other than "Fallen Angel" and "Theater of the Soul". Man, do they SUCK.

[Saint John]

I stepped in the car one day, and my foot went through the floorboards.

Flinstones fan, eh?

[cyclonus5150]

Very good points indeed. This record is selling because of DSB and the Walmart deal; period. The CBS and Ellen shows didn't help at all as the audience were all sleeping; Arnel's story and talent shouldn't even be mentioned because *anybody* can sing a Journey catalog and everybody has a sob story that sells; and, the album and the band suck as all the reviews were all negative. It's all about that one song because the buying public are DUMB that they are buying Revelation and not fucking Escape to listen to DSB!

Goodness people, give credit to where and whom it is due.

No, you're points are definitely valid. They've had an extraordinary publicity push with this album and the credit goes to Azoff for working his ass off. However, had Generations received the same treatment (Wal Mart deal, mainstream media push, etc.) they probably would have sold well also. I don't think the material on the album is any better. If anything, there was more life in most of the vox on Generations than there is on the current album. Arnel does not emote well at all. My opinion, of course.

Escape has done very well and I'm sure it's seen a good bump in recent years along with the rest of the catalog. It's a good time to be Journey. Their music has appeal that is cross-generational. It's a shame that they can't truly capitalize on it by getting out there with the authentic talent that is responsible for the hits (the classic lineup, not just Steve). Oh and I am of the opinion that there are karaoke singers all over the world on any given night that can sing this catalog just as well if not better than the current Journey singer. It continues to blow my mind that Journey pushed ahead with this guy and not Jeremey.

And yes, the general US consumer (and we're talking Wal Mart shoppers here) would most certainly be flippant enough to hear DSB and grab the first album on the shelf that features that song. Many of the people that are currently taken with that song don't have a clue about it's album origins. In fact, I imagine that Azoff was counting on as much with this exclusive deal. It worked well for the Eagles and they really had no buzz going for them at the time.

[Michigan Girl]

ROCKET SURGERY????

Great...Clemens is attempting another comeback.

You mean ROCKETT surgery. The sooner Poison disappears forever, the better. Yech.

cyclonus5150 may have meant ROCKETT sugery, but since I was questioning ROCKET surgery
from his/her quote....I meant ROCKET surgery....Thanks though!!!

[Greg]

Very good points indeed. This record is selling because of DSB and the Walmart deal; period. The CBS and Ellen shows didn't help at all as the audience were all sleeping; Arnel's story and talent shouldn't even be mentioned because *anybody* can sing a Journey catalog and everybody has a sob story that sells; and, the album and the band suck as all the reviews were all negative. It's all about that one song because the buying public are DUMB that they are buying Revelation and not fucking Escape to listen to DSB!

Goodness people, give credit to where and whom it is due.

No, you're points are definitely valid. They've had an extraordinary publicity push with this album and the credit goes to Azoff for working his ass off. However, had Generations received the same treatment (Wal Mart deal, mainstream media push, etc.) they probably would have sold well also. I don't think the material on the album is any better. If anything, there was more life in most of the vox on Generations than there is on the current album. Arnel does not emote well at all. My opinion, of course.

Escape has done very well and I'm sure it's seen a good bump in recent years along with the rest of the catalog. It's a good time to be Journey. Their music has appeal that is cross-generational. It's a shame that they can't truly capitalize on it by getting out there with the authentic talent that is responsible for the hits (the classic lineup, not just Steve). Oh and I am of the opinion that there are karaoke singers all over the world on any given night that can sing this catalog just as well if not better than the current Journey singer. It continues to blow my mind that Journey pushed ahead with this guy and not Jeremey.

And yes, the general US consumer (and we're talking Wal Mart shoppers here) would most certainly be flippant enough to hear DSB and grab the first album on the shelf that features that song. Many of the people that are currently taken with that song don't have a clue about it's album origins. In fact, I imagine that Azoff was counting on as much with this exclusive deal. It worked well for the Eagles and they really had no buzz going for them at the time.

That's exactly what I've been saying all along. The casual fan isn't going to know that Don't Stop Believing is on the Escape album. They are going to pick up the first album that has that title on it and buy it. And, why not buy the Revelation package since it's such a good deal for two CDs and a DVD? There is where the bulk of the record sales are coming from.

[Saint John]

That's exactly what I've been saying all along. The casual fan isn't going to know that Don't Stop Believing is on the Escape album. They are going to pick up the first album that has that title on it and buy it. And, why not buy the Revelation package since it's such a good deal for two CDs and a DVD? There is where the bulk of the record sales are coming from.

Really? When we were discussing how sales would continue after week 1 I don't recall you making any mention of DSB or any of the other re-records sort of carrying sales. In fact, after several weeks of strong sales there has recently been a spike in sales. Here's what you said:

"The proof in the pudding will come in the next few weeks to see what happens with Journey on the official charts and how well their records continue to sell. There were several fans who purchased as much as 10 CDs a piece, so certainly I'd expect the sales to drop off unless there is a huge promotion of the new record on radio."

Well there certainly hasn't been any "huge promotion of the new record on the radio" and I doubt after 7 weeks that people are still buying "10 copies" each!!! Perhaps it's just a really good album and concert goers are starting to pick it up after shows? Word of mouth? A combination of those 2, some pretty solid reviews and the power of giving the consumer a nice package at a great price is my guess. But I highly doubt it has anything to do with the re-records as far as the bulk of the continued sales go. People pick up products and read the labels. They know what's inside these packages. Nobody grabs something that's 12 dollars and just throws it in their cart. They're fucking cheap...that's why they're at Wal Mart in the first place!!!

[jrnyman28]

It worked well for the Eagles and they really had no buzz going for them at the time.

Are you saying there was not much buzz about the Eagles recording their first full length CD of all new material in 24 years? Sorry, but I gotta throw the bullshit flag on that one. The buzz was huge about the band recording. And at first it appeared the WalMart story was a curiosity but not much else. Once the CD was released and started moving units that is when the Walmart story really grew. Because that is when people started to take notice that a band didn't really need a record label...that scared a lot of people.

[cyclonus5150]

It worked well for the Eagles and they really had no buzz going for them at the time.

Are you saying there was not much buzz about the Eagles recording their first full length CD of all new material in 24 years? Sorry, but I gotta throw the bullshit flag on that one. The buzz was huge about the band recording. And at first it appeared the WalMart story was a curiosity but not much else. Once the CD was released and started moving units that is when the Walmart story really grew. Because that is when people started to take notice that a band didn't really need a record label...that scared a lot of people.

That's exactly what I'm saying. There might have been some excitement among fans and whatnot but there was no true mainstream buzz about the actual music like there has been with DSB and Journey in general. I'm a music junkie and I couldn't name a single tune from the Eagles album. I don't even recall hearing one. I do remember seeing some headlines about them recording but being the buzz in the news and being the buzz in pop culture are two very different things. Journey references are popping up everywhere in youth pop culture and have been for a couple of years now. Spend some time on pandora or Last.fm and you'll likely see Journey on many a playlist, even the indie and emo fans have some Journey. Go check out the band's profile on iLike and you'll see the love.

[jrnyman28]

being the buzz in the news and being the buzz in pop culture are two very different things.

That explains it then, thank you.

[cyclonus5150]

being the buzz in the news and being the buzz in pop culture are two very different things.

That explains it then, thank you.

No problem.

BTW, does anyone else think it's absolutely ridiculous that you have to pay a king's ransom to gain access to soundscan charts?

[Greg]

Really? When we were discussing how sales would continue after week 1 I don't recall you making any mention of DSB or any of the other re-records sort of carrying sales. In fact, after several weeks of strong sales there has recently been a spike in sales. Here's what you said:

"The proof in the pudding will come in the next few weeks to see what happens with Journey on the official charts and how well their records continue to sell. There were several fans who purchased as much as 10 CDs a piece, so certainly I'd expect the sales to drop off unless there is a huge promotion of the new record on radio."

Well there certainly hasn't been any "huge promotion of the new record on the radio" and I doubt after 7 weeks that people are still buying "10 copies" each!!! Perhaps it's just a really good album and concert goers are starting to pick it up after shows? Word of mouth? A combination of those 2, some pretty solid reviews and the power of giving the consumer a nice package at a great price is my guess. But I highly doubt it has anything to do with the re-records as far as the bulk of the continued sales go. People pick up products and read the labels. They know what's inside these packages. Nobody grabs something that's 12 dollars and just throws it in their cart. They're fucking cheap...that's why they're at Wal Mart in the first place!!!

That's because you don't understand context clues. I have said repeatedly that the new album will sale to casual fans who are in wal-mart killing time and who happen to see a new Journey package that has some of their popular tracks on it (ie DSB) along with some new ones at a price for one CD. Chances are, a casual fan will purchase it because of the low price for all that you get. And, chances are, the casual fan isn't going to pay attention to the fact that the hits CD is full of re-recorded hits and not the originals.

Next time you go into Wal-Mart, take a look at the music arrangement. At the one in my hometown, they have a standee of new release CDs right in front of the checkout counters in the front of the store. It's quite easy to see that and go, hhhmmmm a Journey package of CDs for the price of one CD. Cool..I can afford this!

And for the record, there has been quite a drop off of record sales since week one.

[Saint John]

And for the record, there has been quite a drop off of record sales since week one.

Perhaps some fair points on the first part...except I think that the millions of people that watched Ellen, The CBS piece, go to the shows, DO read the in store circulars and package info and have gone to the shows KNOW that Perry is gone!!! Fuck, Greg, there's a little Filipino dude right on the back of the package!!! Wal Mart doesn't always have the brightest of the bunch but come on, man!!! And the above quoted part is bullshit...relatively speaking. 7 weeks in the Top 20 is awesome. In fact, for a 30 year old act it's almost unheard of (well, except for The Eagles). TBF, with Perry, after a much anticipated reunion with STEVE FUCKING PERRY didn't do that.

[cyclonus5150]

Here's kinda what I'm talking about:


http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/25/zvue ... er-delete/


This is pretty much the king of all gadget blogs. They have no idea that this is not the original. Neither do the readers. Does it really matter in the end? No, I guess it really doesn't. Although, if I were Steve Perry I'd be fairly uncomfortable about the whole situation.

[bluejeangirl76]

TBF, with Perry, after a much anticipated reunion with STEVE FUCKING PERRY didn't do that.

I notice many people (self included) call him that, because just his name isn't enough to convey his sheer awesomeness. I believe there's a marketing opportunity here. He needs to throw down with a new album once and for all, and title it "Steve Fucking Perry". Verdana 16 point bold, centered, black on red, blank cover, because the title tells the story.

[Greg]

And for the record, there has been quite a drop off of record sales since week one.

Perhaps some fair points on the first part...except I think that the millions of people that watched Ellen, The CBS piece, go to the shows, DO read the in store circulars and package info and have gone to the shows KNOW that Perry is gone!!! Fuck, Greg, there's a little Filipino dude right on the back of the package!!! Wal Mart doesn't always have the brightest of the bunch but come on, man!!! And the above quoted part is bullshit...relatively speaking. 7 weeks in the Top 20 is awesome. In fact, for a 30 year old act it's almost unheard of (well, except for The Eagles). TBF, with Perry, after a much anticipated reunion with STEVE FUCKING PERRY didn't do that.

Yeah Dan, but why didn't TBF do that? I mean, despite When You Love A Woman getting a grammy nod and respectable amount of airplay, the record got hardly any promotion other than that. No special Wal-Mart deal, no television appearances, no tour. As matter of fact, probably the only reason why Journey even got airplay was because of Steve Perry. I remember hearing the DJs gush over how great of a voice Perry had even after all of these years (no pun intended !)

Being in the top 20 on the charts is impressive, but I will be impressed when Journey can chart high on the merits of the album alone and not with some fancy marketing scheme to push volumes. Let's just put the album out there on it's own. No re-records, no fancy box set, no MP3 player. Let this line up release an album by itself, the same way Arrival and Generations was released, and see if Journey can have as much success as they are having with Revelation. If so, then we will know it's because the wide variety of music fans dig this line up. If not, we'll know it's just because of some fancy Wal-Mart marketing scheme.

[Greg]

Here's kinda what I'm talking about:


http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/25/zvue ... er-delete/


This is pretty much the king of all gadget blogs. They have no idea that this is not the original. Neither do the readers. Does it really matter in the end? No, I guess it really doesn't. Although, if I were Steve Perry I'd be fairly uncomfortable about the whole situation.

Yep! You see, no mention of Arnel Pineda. In fact, they make it out to believe that the 11 "classics" are the originals.
Even someone who apparently purchased it was disappointed to find that the classics were re-recorded and "not Journey."

[7 Wishes]

Greg, every single album almost always - and especially for a classic rock band - pushes the most units in Week 1.

You can't argue with these numbers. The record is outselling the Crue, the Priest, the Leps...you name it...even some high-selling contemporary acts. All the venues are sold out. You have no argument.

[conversationpc]

Greg, every single album almost always - and especially for a classic rock band - pushes the most units in Week 1.

You can't argue with these numbers. The record is outselling the Crue, the Priest, the Leps...you name it...even some high-selling contemporary acts. All the venues are sold out. You have no argument.

Bingo!

[journeypower]

Yeah Dan, but why didn't TBF do that? I mean, despite When You Love A Woman getting a grammy nod and respectable amount of airplay, the record got hardly any promotion other than that. No special Wal-Mart deal, no television appearances, no tour. As matter of fact, probably the only reason why Journey even got airplay was because of Steve Perry. I remember hearing the DJs gush over how great of a voice Perry had even after all of these years (no pun intended !)

Being in the top 20 on the charts is impressive, but I will be impressed when Journey can chart high on the merits of the album alone and not with some fancy marketing scheme to push volumes. Let's just put the album out there on it's own. No re-records, no fancy box set, no MP3 player. Let this line up release an album by itself, the same way Arrival and Generations was released, and see if Journey can have as much success as they are having with Revelation. If so, then we will know it's because the wide variety of music fans dig this line up. If not, we'll know it's just because of some fancy Wal-Mart marketing scheme.

I feel what you meant Greg. but the fancy packaging doesn't help if the content is empty. a fancy box for 11.98? kinda reminds of that scammer on eBay. lol.
remember that majority of the consumers are not that stupid to buy a product just because it has a shiny cover.

the MP3 players would've not come out if they didn't see how successful Revelation was. why sell a Journey Revelation preloaded Mp3 if the demands are not good? a simple law of supply and demand rule.

as far as sellout concerts are concerned, this cannot be attributed to a few of the audience not being aware of SP's departure. it has been 10 years and 2 singers had past since SP. surely the statistics won't say that 80% of the people who attended those concerts never knew that SP is gone. that would be a statistical error or anomaly if it did. this is all about the Journey '08, not Journey '96.

sure there are a few unaware individuals, but they are not significant enough to cause any real difference. if SA and JSS had the same success with Journey then as it is now, then credit it to the dirty dozen. I believe SA and JSS sang the same catalogue that AP is singing, except for the new materials, right?.
and where such new materials are finding popularity as compared to the dirty 12. it's just a matter of time before the dirty 12 would become less and less to use. I won't be surprised if the 12 becomes 4 or 5 in the near future.


TBF didn't have much marketing deals, but it sure did have a story to sell like the Journey reunion and a music video and a heck of an airtime on the radio to help it's cause.

the story behind TBF's success was the reunion headline story, while Revelation's success was the rockstar headline. I'm a bit saddened the GAP singer story didn't sell. guess many people don't like to wear GAP.

[mdaemon]

Here's kinda what I'm talking about:


http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/25/zvue ... er-delete/


This is pretty much the king of all gadget blogs. They have no idea that this is not the original. Neither do the readers. Does it really matter in the end? No, I guess it really doesn't. Although, if I were Steve Perry I'd be fairly uncomfortable about the whole situation.

Yep! You see, no mention of Arnel Pineda. In fact, they make it out to believe that the 11 "classics" are the originals.
Even someone who apparently purchased it was disappointed to find that the classics were re-recorded and "not Journey."

Yups! Millions of people visit engadget.com everyday and only 3 people watched the CBS and Ellen shows; two of them pissed drunk!

Also, the Journey MP3 player product homepage prominently displays Steve Perry's picture. But wait, this Steve Perry is at least 1 meter shorter and his nose is at least 1 foot shorter! Also, Zvue's product press release only mentioned Arnel Pineda's name once so surely the public would miss that. So really, there is an intent and a widespread conspiracy to mislead the public that Steve Perry is still the lead singer of Journey.

Who are you going to credit for the success of Revelation this time, the freakin' weather????!!!

[Greg]

Greg, every single album almost always - and especially for a classic rock band - pushes the most units in Week 1.

No argument there.

You can't argue with these numbers. The record is outselling the Crue, the Priest, the Leps...you name it...even some high-selling contemporary acts. All the venues are sold out. You have no argument.

Exactly which contemporary acts are you referring to? Motley Crue, Judas Priest, and Def Leppard did not have Wal*mart Exclusive deals. The rest of the albums on the charts are all sold as single albums, and sold as digital downloads via individual tracks. Which I assume, would not count as albums sold. These new high-selling acts are listened to by younger people who would rather purchase the tracks to put in their iPod as opposed to buying an entire album. You guys are really putting way too much stock into the album sales.

It comes down to this. How many of us can say we can turn on the radio at any time of the day and hear a brand new Journey song? How many times have we seen Journey on VH1 or MTV? How much of their new material is used for television programs? As far as sold out venues, this happened with Steve Augeri and Jeff Scott Soto. Journey selling out venues isn't anything that just suddenly started happening. They have been doing that since they came back out on the road in 1998.

[Greg]

Yeah Dan, but why didn't TBF do that? I mean, despite When You Love A Woman getting a grammy nod and respectable amount of airplay, the record got hardly any promotion other than that. No special Wal-Mart deal, no television appearances, no tour. As matter of fact, probably the only reason why Journey even got airplay was because of Steve Perry. I remember hearing the DJs gush over how great of a voice Perry had even after all of these years (no pun intended !)

Being in the top 20 on the charts is impressive, but I will be impressed when Journey can chart high on the merits of the album alone and not with some fancy marketing scheme to push volumes. Let's just put the album out there on it's own. No re-records, no fancy box set, no MP3 player. Let this line up release an album by itself, the same way Arrival and Generations was released, and see if Journey can have as much success as they are having with Revelation. If so, then we will know it's because the wide variety of music fans dig this line up. If not, we'll know it's just because of some fancy Wal-Mart marketing scheme.

I feel what you meant Greg. but the fancy packaging doesn't help if the content is empty. a fancy box for 11.98? kinda reminds of that scammer on eBay. lol.
remember that majority of the consumers are not that stupid to buy a product just because it has a shiny cover.

the MP3 players would've not come out if they didn't see how successful Revelation was. why sell a Journey Revelation preloaded Mp3 if the demands are not good? a simple law of supply and demand rule.

as far as sellout concerts are concerned, this cannot be attributed to a few of the audience not being aware of SP's departure. it has been 10 years and 2 singers had past since SP. surely the statistics won't say that 80% of the people who attended those concerts never knew that SP is gone. that would be a statistical error or anomaly if it did. this is all about the Journey '08, not Journey '96.

sure there are a few unaware individuals, but they are not significant enough to cause any real difference. if SA and JSS had the same success with Journey then as it is now, then credit it to the dirty dozen. I believe SA and JSS sang the same catalogue that AP is singing, except for the new materials, right?.
and where such new materials are finding popularity as compared to the dirty 12. it's just a matter of time before the dirty 12 would become less and less to use. I won't be surprised if the 12 becomes 4 or 5 in the near future.


TBF didn't have much marketing deals, but it sure did have a story to sell like the Journey reunion and a music video and a heck of an airtime on the radio to help it's cause.

the story behind TBF's success was the reunion headline story, while Revelation's success was the rockstar headline. I'm a bit saddened the GAP singer story didn't sell. guess many people don't like to wear GAP.

This is my point. Journey put out an excellent Arrival album that could've been huge if marketed right. Even though Generations wasn't as good as arrival, it had enough good songs on it to have made some noise as well. The point I'm making is, substitute Revelation for Arrival or Generations, put it in the same two disc/DVD package, and you'll get the same results.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Hiya all. I just thought I'd provide a quick and unsolicited sanity check. I know that right now it would appear to be all unicorns and rainbows for the current lineup of Journey. They're doing great at the gate, as they always do. The "dirty dozen" will assure that every time out. The new Revelations package has moved a respectable number of units although when you remove the RIAA technicalities, they've really only moved some 300k or so actual units. Again, unicorns and rainbows courtesy of RIAA spec but respectable numbers nonetheless.

Anywho, I just feel compelled to point out that the success of this package really doesn't have anything to do with anything newly written or re-recorded. The buzz around Journey right now continues to be fed by one of the dirtiest of the dozen - "Don't Stop Believin'". That song has been hovering in and around the top of the iTunes charts for several years now thanks to some timely placement in hit television shows. It's a monster hit at the karaoke bars, which makes it all the more fitting that Journey would release an official karaoke version of it. Also, it doesn't take rocket surgery to figure out that when a classic band such as Journey hits the road, their entire catalog is going to get some movement. Enjoy.

It's probably safe to say that people aren't perusing the music section at Wal Mart and snatching the new Journey album up because they've heard anything new or that it features a new singer. They are probably longtime fans who see a new product that just happens to contain a bonus cache of some of their favorite songs. They probably don't read far enough into it to realize that they're re-recorded but they don't care. In the end, it's those songs that brought them to this point and they are content.

So anyway, I'll let you guys get back to Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Journey. Oh and that ZVUE player? Stay far, far away from it if you value quality at all. 6 hour batter life and nightmare navigation.

Very fair point.
The friend of mine who bought the cd did so mainly for his casual jukebox affection for the dirty dozen.
Despite my best efforts, he has not touched Disc 1 since unwrapping the cellophane.
Of course, this is by no means a general rule of all consumer behavior.
Just sayin....

[koberry]

I was thinking about this debate last night and I suppose in some respects, I might have misspoke. I do, for the record, think a band's success largely falls on who the lead singer is and how well he/she performs. However, if you look at this in regards to marketing, it has more to do with how you are going to get the music out to the general public and how to get them to buy it. Back in the day, these bands sold albums because of their talent. Obviously they are still extremely talented, but are not selling albums like they did in the 80's. In this day and age of the music business, it's all about marketing and not so much about the music itself. If that wasn't true, you'd still have these bands being played on the radio every hour on the hour. Not to put down any of the new artists popular today, but there are some that leave me scratching my head wondering how they got a record deal.

I'm just scanning this thread and may have misinterpreted your meaning, but I think I have to disagree with you. It strikes me that while the package is an extremely good value, the quality of the music has every bit as much to do with the album's success as does the genius marketing. By the accounts I've read, Walmart has really promoted this package by playing the music in-store. I've heard DJs on the radio talk about the new lead singer and CD at least a handful of times here in the Raleigh-Durham area, and I hardly ever listen to the radio. Thinking forward to the upcoming AC/DC release and the fact that Brian Johnson's voice has been completely shot for a decade - do you think the buying public will rush to by the new AC/DC disc if they get to hear BJ's burned out voice prior to getting to the POS? I'm just saying that the music is pretty darn good and deserves much credit for the sales to date, though no doubt Walmart's marketing muscle has had much to do with it as well. It's just not ALL about the distribution. Having nationwide distribution of a crappy product is just going to result in a fuck-ton of non-selling crap in inventory...

I do agree with you on the quality of the US release of Arrival, dang shame that it got broadsided by peer-to-peer stealing.

Ken