All this talk about Arnel being done ETC....

[brywool]

For the most part, it appears that's the consideration. He never truly established an unique style apart from what I've listed above and half the time he's barely in the mix. He's a great bassist in the fact that he stays out of the way and does his job, but average in the fact that he lacks individuality and flair.

Yeah, he needs to get a pair of polka dot spandex pants and gain 100 lbs.

Randy Jackson is a freaking monster on the four-string.. he makes RoR for me.

Also love his work on "After the Fall" and BOC's "Shooting Shark."

Yeah, hard to argue against Jackson's bass playing. Great stuff.

[Hollywood]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

I think that alone should be testament to why that band should be worshipped among musicians. They seem to be the veritable cream of the crop in all ways except bass.

Makes me wonder how respected/well known/talented Ross Valory is in the music world.

Easy does it now. The classic line-up already had an embarassement of riches with Perry on vocals, Schon on guitar, and Smitty on drums. All Ross really had to do was keep time, and stay the hell out of the way.

No, no, lol. You misinterpret.

We've all heard musicians and fans rant and rave about all of the Journey boys minus Ross. I love Ross; despite the fact that he looks like he died between '87 - '96, has a youthful energy to him and a great charisma. I just want to know if he's considered average with his instrument.

For the most part, it appears that's the consideration. He never truly established an unique style apart from what I've listed above and half the time he's barely in the mix. He's a great bassist in the fact that he stays out of the way and does his job, but average in the fact that he lacks individuality and flair.

Well, I'm not a musician.

See, it seems to me that someone of Neal Schon's calibre could pretty much play anything on the guitar. I.e. Steve Vai or Joe Satriani aren't too complicated for him.

Am I right?

Neal would have a hard time keeping up with Vai and Satriani on the shred material as he almost never uses his pinky on his left hand, and without it you can't do the speed things those guys do. In terms of melodic and soulful guitar playing, very few including those two are even in Neal's league.

I always felt that Ross' playing on Escape was fantastic.

Did I miss something Prog? Randy Jackson on After the Fall??? Didn't think he hooked up with Perry until after Street Talk or are we talking about the ROR tour?

[Rick]

The Journey catalog kills singers.

I think that alone should be testament to why that band should be worshipped among musicians. They seem to be the veritable cream of the crop in all ways except bass.

Makes me wonder how respected/well known/talented Ross Valory is in the music world.

Easy does it now. The classic line-up already had an embarassement of riches with Perry on vocals, Schon on guitar, and Smitty on drums. All Ross really had to do was keep time, and stay the hell out of the way.

No, no, lol. You misinterpret.

We've all heard musicians and fans rant and rave about all of the Journey boys minus Ross. I love Ross; despite the fact that he looks like he died between '87 - '96, has a youthful energy to him and a great charisma. I just want to know if he's considered average with his instrument.

For the most part, it appears that's the consideration. He never truly established an unique style apart from what I've listed above and half the time he's barely in the mix. He's a great bassist in the fact that he stays out of the way and does his job, but average in the fact that he lacks individuality and flair.

Well, I'm not a musician.

See, it seems to me that someone of Neal Schon's calibre could pretty much play anything on the guitar. I.e. Steve Vai or Joe Satriani aren't too complicated for him.

Am I right?

Neal would have a hard time keeping up with Vai and Satriani on the shred material as he almost never uses his pinky on his left hand, and without it you can't do the speed things those guys do. In terms of melodic and soulful guitar playing, very few including those two are even in Neal's league.

I always felt that Ross' playing on Escape was fantastic.

Did I miss something Prog? Randy Jackson on After the Fall??? Didn't think he hooked up with Perry until after Street Talk or are we talking about the ROR tour?

I believe RJ played bass in the studio on a couple of Frontiers tracks.

[WykkedSensation]

Jackson played bass on 'After The Fall' only from Frontiers.
The liner notes state it, as did Schon on the ROR documentary back in the day.

[SherriBerry]

I don't think he's done. But if he's going to be sick all the time, they may need to confine the groups performances to sterile areas like hospital wards. I don't believe Perry ever used the sick card until the 300th show or so, and they still got another 270 shows out of him after that before he became roadkill.

"Apples to oranges."

Perry was, what? 20-something? Arnel may look like he's eleven, but he's 40+ lol. Though I am curious how well Perry performed during FtLoSM's tour.

Simple solutions: don't do another 60-show summer tour, consider taking the songs down half a step, and make him quit the fucking solo outings.

Steve Perry was born in 1949 - easy research Gideon! He was 34 in 1983 and still in full range; when he ended the ROR tour in 1987 he was 38, only a couple of years younger than Arnel, but had been singing the toughest catalogue in music for 9 years and on the road touring for most of it.

[WykkedSensation]

I don't think he's done. But if he's going to be sick all the time, they may need to confine the groups performances to sterile areas like hospital wards. I don't believe Perry ever used the sick card until the 300th show or so, and they still got another 270 shows out of him after that before he became roadkill.

"Apples to oranges."

Perry was, what? 20-something? Arnel may look like he's eleven, but he's 40+ lol. Though I am curious how well Perry performed during FtLoSM's tour.

Simple solutions: don't do another 60-show summer tour, consider taking the songs down half a step, and make him quit the fucking solo outings.

'How well Perry performed on the Strange medicine tour'???

DSB...
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JXT23B33

Faithfully...
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FSBW3FYJ

[madsplash]

For the most part, it appears that's the consideration. He never truly established an unique style apart from what I've listed above and half the time he's barely in the mix. He's a great bassist in the fact that he stays out of the way and does his job, but average in the fact that he lacks individuality and flair.

Yeah, he needs to get a pair of polka dot spandex pants and gain 100 lbs.

Randy Jackson is a freaking monster on the four-string.. he makes RoR for me.

Also love his work on "After the Fall" and BOC's "Shooting Shark."

Absolutely. Randy is 5 times the musician that Ross is.

[madsplash]

I don't think he's done. But if he's going to be sick all the time, they may need to confine the groups performances to sterile areas like hospital wards. I don't believe Perry ever used the sick card until the 300th show or so, and they still got another 270 shows out of him after that before he became roadkill.

"Apples to oranges."

Perry was, what? 20-something? Arnel may look like he's eleven, but he's 40+ lol. Though I am curious how well Perry performed during FtLoSM's tour.

Simple solutions: don't do another 60-show summer tour, consider taking the songs down half a step, and make him quit the fucking solo outings.

'How well Perry performed on the Strange medicine tour'???

DSB...
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JXT23B33

Faithfully...
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FSBW3FYJ

Although lowered a half step, both are spot on. Excellent performances.

[Gideon]

I don't think he's done. But if he's going to be sick all the time, they may need to confine the groups performances to sterile areas like hospital wards. I don't believe Perry ever used the sick card until the 300th show or so, and they still got another 270 shows out of him after that before he became roadkill.

"Apples to oranges."

Perry was, what? 20-something? Arnel may look like he's eleven, but he's 40+ lol. Though I am curious how well Perry performed during FtLoSM's tour.

Simple solutions: don't do another 60-show summer tour, consider taking the songs down half a step, and make him quit the fucking solo outings.

Steve Perry was born in 1949 - easy research Gideon! He was 34 in 1983 and still in full range; when he ended the ROR tour in 1987 he was 38, only a couple of years younger than Arnel, but had been singing the toughest catalogue in music for 9 years and on the road touring for most of it.

He still had three years to collect himself prior and the tour was hardly flawless. I have been more impressed with Arnel's vocals at 41 live than Perry's at 38 live.

[Rick]

I don't think he's done. But if he's going to be sick all the time, they may need to confine the groups performances to sterile areas like hospital wards. I don't believe Perry ever used the sick card until the 300th show or so, and they still got another 270 shows out of him after that before he became roadkill.

"Apples to oranges."

Perry was, what? 20-something? Arnel may look like he's eleven, but he's 40+ lol. Though I am curious how well Perry performed during FtLoSM's tour.

Simple solutions: don't do another 60-show summer tour, consider taking the songs down half a step, and make him quit the fucking solo outings.

'How well Perry performed on the Strange medicine tour'???

DSB...
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JXT23B33

Faithfully...
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FSBW3FYJ

Although lowered a half step, both are spot on. Excellent performances.

Yep, those were pretty freakin good.

[Gideon]

Not impressed with DSB. Perry's finest FtLoSM moment was his version of "I'll Be Alright Without You." It would have been vocally perfect if he had just had the presence of mind to include the "ooooh" harmonics before the final chorus.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

He still had three years to collect himself prior and the tour was hardly flawless. I have been more impressed with Arnel's vocals at 41 live than Perry's at 38 live.

true but theres more than one critic of vocal music who has suggested that what Perry was doing - singing at that range night after night for years without the right rest- was something that no professional singer- such as the top opera stars - would ever entertain doing. By the time he was thirty eight perry had been singing nonstop for years- Arnel had sung alot but it was spaced out trickle of shows at the Manila Hard Rock Cafe, etc etc. Start Arnel at Perrys age and have him do that schedule, hed have hit the ropes at 32 years old.

[Arkansas]

They don't need to downtune, they just need Arnel to work on his diction/accent. Range wasn't the problem yesterday, delivery was.

Voice coaches, then. I just don't see him moving to the States for a 3 year obligation. Hell, when was the contract signed? He might have only 1-2 left.

And wasn't that renewable annually...meaning there's a yes/no decision every 12 mos?


later~

[Gideon]

He still had three years to collect himself prior and the tour was hardly flawless. I have been more impressed with Arnel's vocals at 41 live than Perry's at 38 live.

true but theres more than one critic of vocal music who has suggested that what Perry was doing - singing at that range night after night for years without the right rest- was something that no professional singer- such as the top opera stars - would ever entertain doing. By the time he was thirty eight perry had been singing nonstop for years- Arnel had sung alot but it was spaced out trickle of shows at the Manila Hard Rock Cafe, etc etc. Start Arnel at Perrys age and have him do that schedule, hed have hit the ropes at 32 years old.

The last part of your statement is pure speculation. Furthermore, one should also factor in Arnel's rigorous physical antics during the show, which were more frequent and long lasting than anything I have ever seen of Perry, unless Perry was pulling DLR-class stunts and I wasn't paying attention.

Like I said, Perry was the best, but Arnel's damn impressive -- more impressive, imho -- than Perry at similar age.

And I'd like to see those critic's sources.

[Michigan Girl]

He still had three years to collect himself prior and the tour was hardly flawless. I have been more impressed with Arnel's vocals at 41 live than Perry's at 38 live.

true but theres more than one critic of vocal music who has suggested that what Perry was doing - singing at that range night after night for years without the right rest- was something that no professional singer- such as the top opera stars - would ever entertain doing. By the time he was thirty eight perry had been singing nonstop for years- Arnel had sung alot but it was spaced out trickle of shows at the Manila Hard Rock Cafe, etc etc. Start Arnel at Perrys age and have him do that schedule, hed have hit the ropes at 32 years old.

The last part of your statement is pure speculation. Furthermore, one should also factor in Arnel's rigorous physical antics during the show, which were more frequent and long lasting than anything I have ever seen of Perry, unless Perry was pulling DLR-class stunts and I wasn't paying attention.

Like I said, Perry was the best, but Arnel's damn impressive -- more impressive, imho -- than Perry at similar age.

And I'd like to see those critic's sources.

That is a matter of personal taste, I do not like the Arnel Antics at all, other than that....Arnel was great!!!
How many times did you see Perry Live, Giddy?

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

And I'd like to see those critic's sources.

there was some article linked up to this message board a month or two ago whic gave some analysis of Perrys voice and usage from a vocal music standpoint, cant find it back right now .

[madsplash]

He still had three years to collect himself prior and the tour was hardly flawless. I have been more impressed with Arnel's vocals at 41 live than Perry's at 38 live.

true but theres more than one critic of vocal music who has suggested that what Perry was doing - singing at that range night after night for years without the right rest- was something that no professional singer- such as the top opera stars - would ever entertain doing. By the time he was thirty eight perry had been singing nonstop for years- Arnel had sung alot but it was spaced out trickle of shows at the Manila Hard Rock Cafe, etc etc. Start Arnel at Perrys age and have him do that schedule, hed have hit the ropes at 32 years old.

The last part of your statement is pure speculation. Furthermore, one should also factor in Arnel's rigorous physical antics during the show, which were more frequent and long lasting than anything I have ever seen of Perry, unless Perry was pulling DLR-class stunts and I wasn't paying attention.

Like I said, Perry was the best, but Arnel's damn impressive -- more impressive, imho -- than Perry at similar age.

And I'd like to see those critic's sources.

And like I said, Jeremey is better than Arnel right now. I'm not sure of Jeremey's age or how long he's been doing it, but all of his live youtube performances are better then any of the ones I've heard Arnel do.

And please stop comparing Arnel to Perry. It's not even close in each of their primes and it's not fair to Arnel. He's very good but not even in SP's league.

I'd love to have heard Jeremey witte band at the Super Bowl Sunday. It would have been taken up a level. And they wouldn't have had to fly Jeremey back to the country after foolishly and selfishly sacrificing the band's sound by doing gigs that aren't important to the promotion of what should be the most important thing in his musical life, freakin' Journey.

The more I compare the live performances, the more I'm convinced that Jeremey would have been a much better choice. Good work, Neal. You should have listened to Jon on this one, pal.