Is Deen a co-lead singer for the band?

[Jana]

I don't consider those songs Rock, more like ballads and better than Open Arms and Faithfully although I like those songs.

All the songs you listed are great and I would include Chain Reaction, but still more pop rock to me.

What I'm referring to are songs like La Do Da, Lady Luck, Lovin you is easy, City of the Angels, Where Were You,
Line of Fire, Homemade Love etc..

I've heard this position espoused before, and I get that it's all subjective, but I personally don't see the validity of it. So, naturally, I'd like for it to be elaborated upon.

Let's compare "Edge of the Blade" to "City of the Angels." You're going to sit here and tell me that "City of the Angels" rocks harder? No. No, I understand a preference for the '70s era (I love the whole of Infinity), but it's pretty easy to decide which era is harder and heavier.

There is no Rolie/Perry-era rock song that is heavier than the Cain/Perry-era. "Edge of the Blade", "Chain Reaction", "Lay It Down", "Stone In Love", "Dead Or Alive", "Backtalk", "Separate Ways", "Message of Love", "I Can See It In Your Eyes", ect.

Cain definitely brought more ballads to the band than Rolie, but he also brought more rockers, too.

Edit: By the way, I'm not criticising. I'm just curious. I'd like to hear your position explained better, because I just don't see the uber rock that was Evolution.

I wouldn't say that the songs rock harder, I'm just more a fan of the Rolie era style. Their sound changed dramatically after his departure. Also, this was my first exposure to Journey, I saw them twice in 78-79, so to me that is the Journey sound. Of course most here disagree because theirs is the Escape or ROR era which is a completely different Band sound wise.

I think I know what you mean one era is more of a bluesy-rock and the other a pop-rock. I love both, but sometimes there is just nothing better than a great down and dirty bluesy-rock groove (probably why Chickenfoot's Sexy Little Thing quickly became a fave). Although I prefer Perry's more textured vocals later on, I love some of those earlier songs......especially Departure era. And love the vocal contrast on the Perry/Rollie songs.....definite favorite is Just The Same Way.

Yes, I think bluesy rock versus pop is a good analogy. I love all of Perry's vocals from Infinity to FTLOSM, but I prefer the bands style in the Infinity era. I know..... they wouldn't have sold a bijillion albums if Cain hadn't come along etc....

I love the early stuff but I absolutely love everything up until ROR. When everyone says Cain turned it more soft rock, Perry wielded a ton of influence and that's where it was going to go compared to the beginning when he was new. One of the reasons Rolie left was b/c I believe of Perry's influence more and more plus being tired of touring. Cain didn't have control over Perry and Cain didn't turn the band one way on his own. But all the albums are fantastic up to '86. And don't get me wrong I love Perry's voice on ROR and many songs on there, but I can't stomach some of those funky bass lines and keyboards and probably Neal in places too. WCTNGOF perfection, though. I say it over and over but it sounds dated in places, unlike a lot of pop I love. But all the songs that work are great. If Neal would have stood his ground against Perry and Cain and brought more influence into some of those songs I believe it would have been a lighter album compared to earlier albums but would have been absolutely fantastic in its own right, though not rock.

[Saint John]

yeah, that didn't count! i want a do-over

How about tomorrow? I have been in downtown Santa Monica almost every day. I've fallen in love with the 3rd Street Promenade. Stefano's Pizza is off the charts! That's a really nice stretch of stores, shops and bars.

Dude, you ARE NOT hanging at Zanzibar's are you?

Let me guess...gay bar?

Ms. Texas would love that , wouldn't she?

[Jubilee]

I love the early stuff but I absolutely love everything up until ROR. When everyone says Cain turned it more soft rock, Perry wielded a ton of influence and that's where it was going to go compared to the beginning when he was new. One of the reasons Rolie left was b/c I believe of Perry's influence more and more plus being tired of touring. Cain didn't have control over Perry and turned the band one way on his own. But all the albums are fantastic up to '86. And don't get me wrong I love Perry's voice on ROR and many songs on there, but I can't stomach some of those funky bass lines and keyboards and probably Neal in places too. WCTNGOF perfection, though. I say it over and over but it sounds dated in places, unlike a lot of pop I love. But all the songs that work are great. If Neal would have stood his ground against Perry and Cain and brought more influence into some of those songs I believe it would have been a lighter album compared to earlier albums but would have been absolutely fantastic in its own right, though not rock.

Jana! Jana! Jana!

I must say I really liked ROR. I thought those "funky bass lines and keys" made it all the more listenable. In the interest of full disclosure I must say again I am not now, nor have I ever been a rock and roll chick, so the lighter on the rock n roll thrashing and clanging, the better as far as I'm concerned. ROR definitely did not have the same sort of rock edge as previous Journey efforts and I realize that must have been off-puting to some fans. Not me. The fact that it sounds dated doesn't concern me one bit, it is/was after all, contemporary music. It was in keeping with music of that era - sounding dated is unavoidable. And of course every album is going to have at least a couple of clunkers, that goes without saying.

[Jana]

I love the early stuff but I absolutely love everything up until ROR. When everyone says Cain turned it more soft rock, Perry wielded a ton of influence and that's where it was going to go compared to the beginning when he was new. One of the reasons Rolie left was b/c I believe of Perry's influence more and more plus being tired of touring. Cain didn't have control over Perry and turned the band one way on his own. But all the albums are fantastic up to '86. And don't get me wrong I love Perry's voice on ROR and many songs on there, but I can't stomach some of those funky bass lines and keyboards and probably Neal in places too. WCTNGOF perfection, though. I say it over and over but it sounds dated in places, unlike a lot of pop I love. But all the songs that work are great. If Neal would have stood his ground against Perry and Cain and brought more influence into some of those songs I believe it would have been a lighter album compared to earlier albums but would have been absolutely fantastic in its own right, though not rock.

Jana! Jana! Jana!

I must say I really liked ROR. I thought those "funky bass lines and keys" made it all the more listenable. In the interest of full disclosure I must say again I am not now, nor have I ever been a rock and roll chick, so the lighter on the rock n roll thrashing and clanging, the better as far as I'm concerned. ROR definitely did not have the same sort of rock edge as previous Journey efforts and I realize that must have been off-puting to some fans. Not me. The fact that it sounds dated doesn't concern me one bit, it is/was after all, contemporary music. It was in keeping with music of that era - sounding dated is unavoidable. And of course every album is going to have at least a couple of clunkers, that goes without saying.

Believe me, it shocks me that I stuggle with ROR. I'm like the pop queen. I love 80s pop. And I honestly don't think there's really any clunkers in the whole album. The songs are solid for the most part. It's what they did with some of the instruments in places. I expected to love this one more than others b/c of my musical tastes, but I have to skip iit n places. But on the remastered version, wow, the bonus live songs are the worth the whole album plus WCTNGOF and Happy to Give.

[Red13JoePa]

And I honestly don't think there's really any clunkers in the whole album.

The title track.
Cringeworthy, though a good riff.

[texafana]

"Can Deen be considered a co-lead singer for the band?"

Let's face it...the first time he performed "Mother Father" he earned a healthy "HELL YES" in regards to this thread's question. Anyone who doesn't agree with that, just doesn't get it. Oh yah...he played drums at the same time.

[JasonD]

Like Portland mentioned earlier, there are no dumb questions go easy on me when I ask this: Is there a reason WHY Neal didn't just appoint Deen as the lead singer pre-Arnel & Neal's YouTube discovery & all of that? Did I miss something back then? I mean, Deen's got an awesome voice & it appears obvious he could have handled the "assignment." So what if he's the drummer? Phil Collins was the drummer for Genesis & he seems to have done pretty good for himself as well as for the band.

[Gideon]

Like Portland mentioned earlier, there are no dumb questions go easy on me when I ask this: Is there a reason WHY Neal didn't just appoint Deen as the lead singer pre-Arnel & Neal's YouTube discovery & all of that? Did I miss something back then? I mean, Deen's got an awesome voice & it appears obvious he could have handled the "assignment." So what if he's the drummer? Phil Collins was the drummer for Genesis & he seems to have done pretty good for himself as well as for the band.

Deen didn't want to.

And, like it or not, the man's in his, what? Mid-40s? Playing the drums is hard as shit and I doubt he could do both under the strenuous touring regimen that they have always indulged.

[Jana]

Like Portland mentioned earlier, there are no dumb questions go easy on me when I ask this: Is there a reason WHY Neal didn't just appoint Deen as the lead singer pre-Arnel & Neal's YouTube discovery & all of that? Did I miss something back then? I mean, Deen's got an awesome voice & it appears obvious he could have handled the "assignment." So what if he's the drummer? Phil Collins was the drummer for Genesis & he seems to have done pretty good for himself as well as for the band.

Actually, Deen once said he could not have handled it day in and day out over a tour vocalwise. He admires those who have.

[Glenn]

Like Portland mentioned earlier, there are no dumb questions go easy on me when I ask this: Is there a reason WHY Neal didn't just appoint Deen as the lead singer pre-Arnel & Neal's YouTube discovery & all of that? Did I miss something back then? I mean, Deen's got an awesome voice & it appears obvious he could have handled the "assignment." So what if he's the drummer? Phil Collins was the drummer for Genesis & he seems to have done pretty good for himself as well as for the band.

His voice is too thin to handle it...plus he's a monster behind the drums....He's a drummer first...That being said, I enjoy hearing him sing a couple of songs during the show.

[JasonD]

Deen didn't want to. And, like it or not, the man's in his, what? Mid-40s? Playing the drums is hard as shit and I doubt he could do both under the strenuous touring regimen that they have always indulged.

Actually, Deen once said he could not have handled it day in and day out over a tour vocalwise. He admires those who have.

His voice is too thin to handle it...plus he's a monster behind the drums....He's a drummer first...That being said, I enjoy hearing him sing a couple of songs during the show.

Alrighty then. I was falsely under the impression that Deen wanted the position & was passed over. Thanks for clearing that up.