OT - Sympathetic to Madoff victims?

[StoneCold]

Maybe the constant reporting has worn thin but I find myself not having a lot of sympathy for these investors that put "ALL" their savings in one place and lost it.

Any investement scheme, be it real estate, stocks or these firms are a gamble imo. I do agree he and anyone running these illegal businesses should be convicted.

For anyone unfamiliar, here's a couple links.

Madoff Victims Support Groups

http://www.madoff-help.com/

http://www.lifeaftermadoff.com/

Madoff fraud victims find solace together

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009 ... s-organise

Bernard Madoff's thousands of victims may be facing an uncertain future after losing their life savings, but they are not facing it alone. Since the $65bn fraud came to light last December, several groups have been created to provide support to those who lost money and to help them speak out about the devastating personal consequences of the huge "Ponzi" scheme.

One of the most active is a website called Madoff Help. It provides a range of information covering court documents, legal advice and financial guidance. It includes comprehensive aid for those who are having to cope with the realisation they are a lot poorer than they thought last year.

Running these groups has become a full-time job for people who, before last Christmas, were happily retired. Ronnie Sue Ambrosino's hopes of touring the US with her husband were shattered when they learned they had lost their $1.66m nest egg. She now spends up to 16 hours a day helping to run the Bernard Madoff Fraud Victims Support Group. This membership-only organisation began life as a Google group called Madoff Survivors, and offers support with the financial, spiritual and psychological damage caused by the case.

"There's a lot of people who are just absolutely distraught financially, emotionally, physically," Ambrosino said recently.

While the internet has become a key tool for Madoff victims, they are also meeting up with each other. One such gathering has been organised for tomorrow in New York; topics to be discussed include how to apply for a tax refund, and how to sue the US securities and exchange commission for not stopping Madoff sooner. A rally has also been organised for immediately after today's sentencing in New York as part of the drive to keep the victims in the public eye.

This surge of activism has meant a rapid education in the finer details of US tax legislation and the litigation process. Madoff Help includes an interview with the lawyer Howard Elisofon about his legal action against the SEC over Madoff, and downloadable spreadsheets for calculating tax rebates.

Another new group is the Ponzi Victims Coalition, which urges people who have lost money in such cases to become politically active.

"The founders of the Ponzi Victims Coalition are dedicated to pursuing legislative and litigative actions to mitigate the devastating effects these schemes have had upon fundholders, pensioners, stockholders, and all investors – direct and indirect – in these tainted investment instruments," it says.

Kevin LaCroix, an Ohio lawyer, has done his bit for the Madoff victims by maintaining an online list of the various cases that have been launched since Madoff was first charged. This list is now 21 pages long and growing.

LaCroix said he had been surprised by the sheer number of claims from potential victims as well as their variety, with Spanish, Austrian and Gibraltarian banks all facing legal action.

"What struck me as I reviewed these latest allegations is what an incredibly far-flung, diverse and many-tentacled monster the Madoff fraud scheme was," LaCroix wrote on his blog.

[Jubilee]

I'm definitely sympathetic toward the Madoff victims. They were trying to do exactly what we're all supposed to do: be responsible with our money, invest wisely and prepare for our own retirements. Madoff's curriculum vitae demonstrated that he should have been a more than adequate money manager, and he represented himself as such. Could the investors have been a bit more diligent? Perhaps. However, Madoff went so far as to have TWO sets of books and produced fraudulent statements for the investors. This was a well executed sham, and there's really no way the average investor could have known unless they were on the inside.

I might be a little less sympathetic to the investors had this been a simple matter of poor investments - in this market, that kind of thing will happen. You pay your money, you take your chances. This, however, was just a high-rent district con game.

[Ehwmatt]

I am extremely sympathetic... I heard a local radio show host saying Madoff was a genius and this and that for deceiving people and they deserved what they had coming to them and he didn't deserve such a long sentence. I usually agree with most of the stuff this guy says, too. But, not this time.

Aside from the gajillionaires who lost play money to Madoff, he robbed many elderly and retired couples or individuals of their entire nest egg. Can you imagine going back to work two+ jobs after being retired for what should be your golden years? Think of your grandparents or if you're older, your elderly parents (or what they would be like if they had passed on). Do they really have the wherewithal to perform due diligence on all of their investments any more? It becomes doubly hard to fathom if they didn't have a lot of experience with financial markets in their working years. Madoff robbed these people of their lives, he ruined them, eventually he will even murder some of them as they crumple under the stress of being overworked at an old age, having nothing , losing their homes, cars, etc etc.

Were the investors lax and negligent in not doing their due diligence on Madoff? Yes

Were they stupid for believing he could get them massive returns at any time, particularly when the economy was crumbling around them? Absolutely. I would have laughed at the guy if he told me he could get me a 25% annual return or whatever ridiculous number he was tossing about

Did they violate the fundamental axiom of investing and building your nest egg in putting it all in one basket? Without question.

But Madoff is a sick man who preyed on people's trust and dreams. Anyone who thinks you shouldn't feel sorry for these people really needs a reality check. And I don't generally feel sorry for people who have brought trouble upon themselves in large part because of their own actions (which the investors here unquestionably did). He deserves far worse than for his wrinkled, withered Mr. Smithers ass to simply rot away behind bars.

Before it's all said and done, he will have murdered people.

EDIT: I'd like to add that Madoff was a professional, like a lawyer or doctor, and even though the notion is increasingly laughable these days, clients should be able to have the utmost trust in the professionals they choose to manage their most delicate life affairs with, especially ones with qualifications like Madoff's

[Saint John]

I'm torn on this one. In this day and age virtually everyone knows about these schemes, and any amateur investor knows that "diversification" is generally the key to success. Why anyone would put all of their eggs into one basket is beyond me. Moreover, why not trust a reputable company like Fidelity or Vanguard to handle your life savings? I feel sorry for these people, but I just don't know how they let that happen.

As for Madoff, he should be papercut from head to toe, dipped in kerosene, left naked in the desert sun and set afire around nightfall.

[StoneCold]

Madoff robbed these people of their lives, he ruined them,

eventually he will even murder some of them as they crumple under the stress of being overworked at an old age,

having nothing , losing their homes, cars, etc etc.

I'd heard of two suicides related to these investments so he already has. He got off easy and his wife gets to keep over 2 million bucks?

Shyster for over 30 years.

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=7943985

According to Friday's order, the government also settled claims against Madoff's wife. Under the arrangement, the government obtained Ruth Madoff's interest in all property, including more than $80 million-worth that she had claimed was hers, prosecutors said. The order left her $2.5 million in assets.

Whose bright idea was it to leave her $2.5 million, they took all our money and left us with nothing. Better donate the money to charity, but not to her. Let her feel how it is to have everything taken away. That would be the best punishment for her. Or jail her too, she was his bookkeeper, and knew what he was up to.
Posted by:
goldie0112 Jun-28


I agree with phillpenfan. His wife should be left with nothing but the clothes on her back. On second thought, if they are designer duds she should not have them either. Let her shop at Goodwill the way they caused countless people to have to do with their greed and stealing other people's money.
Posted by: volunteerst52 Jun-27


Oops. Excuse me. 171 "billion" bucks would be a great beginning for a fund to help the many thousands wiped out by this record setting filthy thief. Hollywood has often made movies that glorify successful thieves. Perhaps those in Hollywood burned by Madoff will have an entirely different view of a thief now.
Posted by:Noval53 Jun-27


why should she be left with $2.5 million? she enjoyed and spent much more than that of other people's money during the last 18 +/- years. SHE SHOULD BE LEFT WITH NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: phillypenfan Jun-27

[Ehwmatt]

Madoff robbed these people of their lives, he ruined them,

eventually he will even murder some of them as they crumple under the stress of being overworked at an old age,

having nothing , losing their homes, cars, etc etc.

I'd heard of two suicides related to these investments so he already has. He got off easy and his wife gets to keep over 2 million bucks?

Shyster for over 30 years.

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=7943985

According to Friday's order, the government also settled claims against Madoff's wife. Under the arrangement, the government obtained Ruth Madoff's interest in all property, including more than $80 million-worth that she had claimed was hers, prosecutors said. The order left her $2.5 million in assets.

Whose bright idea was it to leave her $2.5 million, they took all our money and left us with nothing. Better donate the money to charity, but not to her. Let her feel how it is to have everything taken away. That would be the best punishment for her. Or jail her too, she was his bookkeeper, and knew what he was up to.
Posted by:
goldie0112 Jun-28


I agree with phillpenfan. His wife should be left with nothing but the clothes on her back. On second thought, if they are designer duds she should not have them either. Let her shop at Goodwill the way they caused countless people to have to do with their greed and stealing other people's money.
Posted by: volunteerst52 Jun-27


Oops. Excuse me. 171 "billion" bucks would be a great beginning for a fund to help the many thousands wiped out by this record setting filthy thief. Hollywood has often made movies that glorify successful thieves. Perhaps those in Hollywood burned by Madoff will have an entirely different view of a thief now.
Posted by:Noval53 Jun-27


why should she be left with $2.5 million? she enjoyed and spent much more than that of other people's money during the last 18 +/- years. SHE SHOULD BE LEFT WITH NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: phillypenfan Jun-27

If his wife didn't know what he was up to, well then, I've got some awesome investment ideas for her myself. She should be investigated.

[Voyager]

I think a better poll would be do you hope Madoff gets raped in prison or not.

[stevew2]

I think a better poll would be do you hope Madoff gets raped in prison or not.

he needs a huge ebony shaft