Did this really go down this way? (Fleischman dismissal)

[perryswoman]

Onestepper said: "Uhh..Schon had nothing to do with Fleischman getting axed. That was 100% HH via pressure from the label. He didn't give them a choice. Augeri's voice gave out, they didn't have a choice. And Perry left on his own, twice. So other than the debacle that was JSS, I don't really see your point have much validity to it. Has it been a circus of singers? Yes. But I think to blame that all on two people is short sided, and not taking all of the factors into account."


Onestepper rocks. Great, objective recounting of Journey's lead singers and why and how they left, instead of some rewritten version by some to fit with their hatred of Neal and Jon.

Neal mishandled JSS's departure horribly. Only one that they deserve criticism on. Not that they let him go. I feel it was the right decision for many reasons for Journey, but the way in which they let him go could have been handled better.

I agree and they played together in their own band and Neal treated him like shit! Not cool

[Chubby321]

Onestepper said: "Uhh..Schon had nothing to do with Fleischman getting axed. That was 100% HH via pressure from the label. He didn't give them a choice. Augeri's voice gave out, they didn't have a choice. And Perry left on his own, twice. So other than the debacle that was JSS, I don't really see your point have much validity to it. Has it been a circus of singers? Yes. But I think to blame that all on two people is short sided, and not taking all of the factors into account."


Onestepper rocks. Great, objective recounting of Journey's lead singers and why and how they left, instead of some rewritten version by some to fit with their hatred of Neal and Jon.

Neal mishandled JSS's departure horribly. Only one that they deserve criticism on. Not that they let him go. I feel it was the right decision for many reasons for Journey, but the way in which they let him go could have been handled better.

I agree and they played together in their own band and Neal treated him like shit! Not cool

I remember reading so many threads on the firing of JSS, man, the MR ladies were on fire.

[strangegrey]

Neal mishandled JSS's departure horribly. Only one that they deserve criticism on. Not that they let him go. I feel it was the right decision for many reasons for Journey, but the way in which they let him go could have been handled better.

Respectfully, the way Augeri was dismissed was equally shameful....One really bad, underhanded, shifty, disgraceful firing after another.

Whether or not you consider the 2 Perry splits a sign of bad actions on one side of the fence, the other side or both...the fact still remains that there's been 4 nasty singer splits with this band over the course of it's history. Snuffalufagus certainly deserves some blame....but Frig and Fro deserve to be ass fucked by Michael Clark Duncan's left leg for doing what they did to both Augeri and JSS.

It's only a matter of time before the current singer gets his share of Frig and Fro's "hospitality!"

[RocknRoll]

Respectfully, the way Augeri was dismissed was equally shameful....One really bad, underhanded, shifty, disgraceful firing after another.

So why is SA still friends with band members?

[stevew2]

Respectfully, the way Augeri was dismissed was equally shameful....One really bad, underhanded, shifty, disgraceful firing after another.

So why is SA still friends with band members?

who says he is ??

[Deb]

Onestepper said: "Uhh..Schon had nothing to do with Fleischman getting axed. That was 100% HH via pressure from the label. He didn't give them a choice. Augeri's voice gave out, they didn't have a choice. And Perry left on his own, twice. So other than the debacle that was JSS, I don't really see your point have much validity to it. Has it been a circus of singers? Yes. But I think to blame that all on two people is short sided, and not taking all of the factors into account."


Onestepper rocks. Great, objective recounting of Journey's lead singers and why and how they left, instead of some rewritten version by some to fit with their hatred of Neal and Jon.

Neal mishandled JSS's departure horribly. Only one that they deserve criticism on. Not that they let him go. I feel it was the right decision for many reasons for Journey, but the way in which they let him go could have been handled better.

I agree and they played together in their own band and Neal treated him like shit! Not cool

I remember reading so many threads on the firing of JSS, man, the MR ladies were on fire.

[RocknRoll]

Respectfully, the way Augeri was dismissed was equally shameful....One really bad, underhanded, shifty, disgraceful firing after another.

So why is SA still friends with band members?

who says he is ??

Check RVR's posts from the last tour.

[Red13JoePa]

Respectfully, the way Augeri was dismissed was equally shameful....One really bad, underhanded, shifty, disgraceful firing after another.

Strangegrey, respectfully, how was the Augeri "dismiss"ing "shameful?"
If what was alleged went down REALLY went down, they've TOTALLY covered him EVERY time it's come up or denied it outright.
Also the way I interpret it OFFICIALLY for the millions of fans in the music world he was not dismissed but opted out due to a chronic throat infection.
He lost his voice, couldn't sing, and they pulled a Stones w/ Brian Jones and OFFICIALLY mutually parted ways amicably in the media with a disabled band member instead of actually FIRING him or saying"Uh, just to protect Steve's reputation from the few hundred or thousand people who are privvy to the completely unscientifically proven accusations that Steve lip sanch, we're telling the ENTIRE music world who had no idea of those holdings that he/we didn;t do it. In fact anything untoward that occured with/around/about/of/or just annoyed fans of the singers of the band from 1998-2007 is and remains entirely the responsibility and fault of Neal Schon and/or Jonathan Cain and/or NoMoTa, LLC. "
Just because a handful of people HERE ONLINE demanded they address tapegate (and btw those demands NOW seem to be morphing into they ADMIT it while ABSOLVING SA of any wrongdoing ) doesn't mean they really had to address it in the mainstream.
Really the way most objective observers see it, Augeri lost his voice at that time and had to bow out, where's this horrific "The Way They Handled It?"

[steveo777]

Respectfully, the way Augeri was dismissed was equally shameful....One really bad, underhanded, shifty, disgraceful firing after another.

Strangegrey, respectfully, how was the Augeri "dismiss"ing "shameful?"
If what was alleged went down REALLY went down, they've TOTALLY covered him EVERY time it's come up or denied it outright.
Also the way I interpret it OFFICIALLY for the millions of fans in the music world he was not dismissed but opted out due to a chronic throat infection.
He lost his voice, couldn't sing, and they pulled a Stones w/ Brian Jones and OFFICIALLY mutually parted ways amicably in the media with a disabled band member instead of actually FIRING him or saying"Uh, just to protect Steve's reputation from the few hundred or thousand people who are privvy to the completely unscientifically proven accusations that Steve lip sanch, we're telling the ENTIRE music world who had no idea of those holdings that he/we didn;t do it. In fact anything untoward that occured with/around/about/of/or just annoyed fans of the singers of the band from 1998-2007 is and remains entirely the responsibility and fault of Neal Schon and/or Jonathan Cain and/or NoMoTa, LLC. "
Just because a handful of people HERE ONLINE demanded they address tapegate (and btw those demands NOW seem to be morphing into they ADMIT it while ABSOLVING SA of any wrongdoing ) doesn't mean they really had to address it in the mainstream.
Really the way most objective observers see it, Augeri lost his voice at that time and had to bow out, where's this horrific "The Way They Handled It?"

Always gotta blame sumtin on sumbody. Rock bands all do scummy things pretty much behind the scenes. It's a personality trait for most, but hell, the product some of em put out makes those things kinda trivial. Creativity and perfectionism among various talent can't ever be a well oiled machine behind the scenes. There is going to be sand in the cogs and egos to be dealt with along the way.

[strangegrey]

Respectfully, the way Augeri was dismissed was equally shameful....One really bad, underhanded, shifty, disgraceful firing after another.

So why is SA still friends with band members?

who says he is ??

Oh fuck, don't make me sound like Tito...

[strangegrey]

Strangegrey, respectfully, how was the Augeri "dismiss"ing "shameful?"
If what was alleged went down REALLY went down, they've TOTALLY covered him EVERY time it's come up or denied it outright.
Also the way I interpret it OFFICIALLY for the millions of fans in the music world he was not dismissed but opted out due to a chronic throat infection.
He lost his voice, couldn't sing, and they pulled a Stones w/ Brian Jones and OFFICIALLY mutually parted ways amicably in the media with a disabled band member instead of actually FIRING him or saying"Uh, just to protect Steve's reputation from the few hundred or thousand people who are privvy to the completely unscientifically proven accusations that Steve lip sanch, we're telling the ENTIRE music world who had no idea of those holdings that he/we didn;t do it. In fact anything untoward that occured with/around/about/of/or just annoyed fans of the singers of the band from 1998-2007 is and remains entirely the responsibility and fault of Neal Schon and/or Jonathan Cain and/or NoMoTa, LLC. "
Just because a handful of people HERE ONLINE demanded they address tapegate (and btw those demands NOW seem to be morphing into they ADMIT it while ABSOLVING SA of any wrongdoing ) doesn't mean they really had to address it in the mainstream.
Really the way most objective observers see it, Augeri lost his voice at that time and had to bow out, where's this horrific "The Way They Handled It?"

Oh come on, Red. Do you honestly believe that someone just stumbled upon the lipping and through a great deal of hard work matching up tapes, the truth was revealed? Neal wanted Augeri out for a while. People within Nomota *leaked* those tapes. It was allowed to play out here, shamefully...

This sorta thing should have been addressed internally, within the band.....why on EARTH did the band not sumarily fire augeri as soon as Neal found out about the lipping? I mean, He didn't know right? He didn't have Augeri in his monitor...right?

Don't give that midget piece of shit more credit than he deserves...

There's a reason this was stretched out the way it was. It was to force augeri enough negative sentiment against augeri, so that he had to step out...Porbably so they wouldn't have to pay him off like Nostril-face.

Then, when you add the fact that tapegate was shamefully played out here...and allowed to do so....you've got a real bad mix of shit.

The band NEVER accepted responsibility for something they shared 80% blame in....but at the end of the day, Augeri fell on his sword to save the other 4...so who cares, right?



Jesus christ, that douchebag nealpoleonic midget quits drinking and people all of a sudden assume he's a good guy now?

[Onestepper]

Strangegrey, respectfully, how was the Augeri "dismiss"ing "shameful?"
If what was alleged went down REALLY went down, they've TOTALLY covered him EVERY time it's come up or denied it outright.
Also the way I interpret it OFFICIALLY for the millions of fans in the music world he was not dismissed but opted out due to a chronic throat infection.
He lost his voice, couldn't sing, and they pulled a Stones w/ Brian Jones and OFFICIALLY mutually parted ways amicably in the media with a disabled band member instead of actually FIRING him or saying"Uh, just to protect Steve's reputation from the few hundred or thousand people who are privvy to the completely unscientifically proven accusations that Steve lip sanch, we're telling the ENTIRE music world who had no idea of those holdings that he/we didn;t do it. In fact anything untoward that occured with/around/about/of/or just annoyed fans of the singers of the band from 1998-2007 is and remains entirely the responsibility and fault of Neal Schon and/or Jonathan Cain and/or NoMoTa, LLC. "
Just because a handful of people HERE ONLINE demanded they address tapegate (and btw those demands NOW seem to be morphing into they ADMIT it while ABSOLVING SA of any wrongdoing ) doesn't mean they really had to address it in the mainstream.
Really the way most objective observers see it, Augeri lost his voice at that time and had to bow out, where's this horrific "The Way They Handled It?"

Oh come on, Red. Do you honestly believe that someone just stumbled upon the lipping and through a great deal of hard work matching up tapes, the truth was revealed? Neal wanted Augeri out for a while. People within Nomota *leaked* those tapes. It was allowed to play out here, shamefully...

This sorta thing should have been addressed internally, within the band.....why on EARTH did the band not sumarily fire augeri as soon as Neal found out about the lipping? I mean, He didn't know right? He didn't have Augeri in his monitor...right?

Don't give that midget piece of shit more credit than he deserves...

There's a reason this was stretched out the way it was. It was to force augeri enough negative sentiment against augeri, so that he had to step out...Porbably so they wouldn't have to pay him off like Nostril-face.

Then, when you add the fact that tapegate was shamefully played out here...and allowed to do so....you've got a real bad mix of shit.

The band NEVER accepted responsibility for something they shared 80% blame in....but at the end of the day, Augeri fell on his sword to save the other 4...so who cares, right?



Jesus christ, that douchebag nealpoleonic midget quits drinking and people all of a sudden assume he's a good guy now?

You honestly believe that once the word got out about the lipping, that they didn't go to Augeri and say, hey we can't do this anymore, it's wrong. You can either sing, or we have to replace you? Even if they didn't give him the luxury of that discussion, how is that mistreating their singer? I don't recall any formal or informal announcement from the band that pinned the decision to use tapes on SA. In fact the reason they didn't comment on it, was because they all knew it was wrong and just wanted it to go away. From what I can tell neither JC or NS had any trouble playing their instruments, so if the guy that is the reason they are using tapes needs to go because he can't do his job, I don't consider that treating someone like shit. SA should be kissing their asses the rest of his miserable life for covering up his inability to do something that he was paid very well to do. I'm get so fucking tired of people jacking off everywhere over SA, but yet everyone else involved in the debacle are pond scum and should be hung at the next sunrise. SA the primary culprit in tape gate, and he should receive the majority of the blame. You can either sing or you can't. And if you can't..get the fuck out. That band has worked tirelessly to protect SA's reputation. It's rather sad.

[Red13JoePa]

Strangegrey, good post but a LOT of supposition and conjecture.
I just laid out the CONFIRMED known facts as they unfolded.

[stevew2]

Respectfully, the way Augeri was dismissed was equally shameful....One really bad, underhanded, shifty, disgraceful firing after another.

So why is SA still friends with band members?

who says he is ??

Check RVR's posts from the last tour.

I think the "to good for Journey" comment is really how he feels

[Jana]

"People within Nomota *leaked* those tapes"

Right, Neal and company wanted to humiliate themselves and their reputation to get rid of Augeri so used tapes as an excuse? Your conspiracy theories are laughable. Augeri had vocal problems and couldn't sing live. But they took a route to get through that tour that hurt all of them, and in no way did they ever want that found out and all the humiliation to the band that came out of that among the fans. And you think their own camp leaked it even after all the evidence here to the contrary? Right.

[Jana]

Respectfully, the way Augeri was dismissed was equally shameful....One really bad, underhanded, shifty, disgraceful firing after another.

Strangegrey, respectfully, how was the Augeri "dismiss"ing "shameful?"
If what was alleged went down REALLY went down, they've TOTALLY covered him EVERY time it's come up or denied it outright.
Also the way I interpret it OFFICIALLY for the millions of fans in the music world he was not dismissed but opted out due to a chronic throat infection.
He lost his voice, couldn't sing, and they pulled a Stones w/ Brian Jones and OFFICIALLY mutually parted ways amicably in the media with a disabled band member instead of actually FIRING him or saying"Uh, just to protect Steve's reputation from the few hundred or thousand people who are privvy to the completely unscientifically proven accusations that Steve lip sanch, we're telling the ENTIRE music world who had no idea of those holdings that he/we didn;t do it. In fact anything untoward that occured with/around/about/of/or just annoyed fans of the singers of the band from 1998-2007 is and remains entirely the responsibility and fault of Neal Schon and/or Jonathan Cain and/or NoMoTa, LLC. "
Just because a handful of people HERE ONLINE demanded they address tapegate (and btw those demands NOW seem to be morphing into they ADMIT it while ABSOLVING SA of any wrongdoing ) doesn't mean they really had to address it in the mainstream.
Really the way most objective observers see it, Augeri lost his voice at that time and had to bow out, where's this horrific "The Way They Handled It?"

Great points, as usual.

[FishinMagician]

"People within Nomota *leaked* those tapes"

Right, Neal and company wanted to humiliate themselves and their reputation to get rid of Augeri so used tapes as an excuse? Your conspiracy theories are laughable. Augeri had vocal problems and couldn't sing live. But they took a route to get through that tour that hurt all of them, and in no way did they ever want that found out and all the humiliation to the band that came out of that among the fans. And you think their own camp leaked it even after all the evidence here to the contrary? Right.

lol @journey conspiracy theories

[strangegrey]

Strangegrey, good post but a LOT of supposition and conjecture.
I just laid out the CONFIRMED known facts as they unfolded.

there's nothing confirmed about what you said. You're going on what Neal said happened...hardly a high level of assurance.

[strangegrey]

Right, Neal and company wanted to humiliate themselves and their reputation to get rid of Augeri so used tapes as an excuse? Your conspiracy theories are laughable. Augeri had vocal problems and couldn't sing live. But they took a route to get through that tour that hurt all of them, and in no way did they ever want that found out and all the humiliation to the band that came out of that among the fans. And you think their own camp leaked it even after all the evidence here to the contrary? Right.

Not at all....you're just unwilling to consider the alternative that members of the band we extremely willing to throw Augeri under the bus, because if you did, you'd have to square away with knowing what kind of people frig, fro and the hirelings are.

[Onestepper]

Right, Neal and company wanted to humiliate themselves and their reputation to get rid of Augeri so used tapes as an excuse? Your conspiracy theories are laughable. Augeri had vocal problems and couldn't sing live. But they took a route to get through that tour that hurt all of them, and in no way did they ever want that found out and all the humiliation to the band that came out of that among the fans. And you think their own camp leaked it even after all the evidence here to the contrary? Right.

Not at all....you're just unwilling to consider the alternative that members of the band we extremely willing to throw Augeri under the bus, because if you did, you'd have to square away with knowing what kind of people frig, fro and the hirelings are.

For the third frickin time, can you please explain to us how Augeri was thrown under the bus? Unless you are suggesting that his voice wasn't toast? Is that what you are saying? Go ahead and let us know. Should be interesting.

[jrnyman28]

Steve's voice was shot. Neal and Jon wanted to keep going. Tapes were used. We do not know whose idea they were but I am confident they all knew about it. It was discovered. It played out here. It got ugly. Neal and Jon needed to force the issue so they made Steve sing without tapes. He couldn't, he was embarassed, he formally stepped down due to health.

The shameful things? Neal and Jon kept pushing the tours when Steve needed a break. Steve had more than just vocal health issues. Neal and Jon said Steve would return when he could but it appears now that would never happen. They bring in JSS and almost immediately after Steve's official retirement from Journey they hire him. And then Kevin Cronin "fires" him!

[stevew2]

Steve's voice was shot. Neal and Jon wanted to keep going. Tapes were used. We do not know whose idea they were but I am confident they all knew about it. It was discovered. It played out here. It got ugly. Neal and Jon needed to force the issue so they made Steve sing without tapes. He couldn't, he was embarassed, he formally stepped down due to health.

The shameful things? Neal and Jon kept pushing the tours when Steve needed a break. Steve had more than just vocal health issues. Neal and Jon said Steve would return when he could but it appears now that would never happen. They bring in JSS and almost immediately after Steve's official retirement from Journey they hire him. And then Kevin Cronin "fires" him!

Thats pretty much it, and they were going to take a break,then the Lipper tour was offered,the whores took the money and kept going

[Monker]

Uhh..Schon had nothing to do with Fleischman getting axed. That was 100% HH via pressure from the label. He didn't give them a choice. Augeri's voice gave out, they didn't have a choice. And Perry left on his own, twice. So other than the debacle that was JSS, I don't really see your point have much validity to it. Has it been a circus of singers? Yes. But I think to blame that all on two people is short sided, and not taking all of the factors into account.

The label did not pressure Herbie into firing Fleischman. The lable pressured Herbie into getting a lead singer. Fleischman was the guy they hired. Fleischman, according to Herbie anyway, was just a problem child and to hard to deal with as a manager. Herbie wanted him out anyway, and then Perry came along and he was gone.

[Don]

Steve's voice was shot. Neal and Jon wanted to keep going. Tapes were used. We do not know whose idea they were but I am confident they all knew about it. It was discovered. It played out here. It got ugly. Neal and Jon needed to force the issue so they made Steve sing without tapes. He couldn't, he was embarassed, he formally stepped down due to health.

The shameful things? Neal and Jon kept pushing the tours when Steve needed a break. Steve had more than just vocal health issues. Neal and Jon said Steve would return when he could but it appears now that would never happen. They bring in JSS and almost immediately after Steve's official retirement from Journey they hire him. And then Kevin Cronin "fires" him!

Thats pretty much it, and they were going to take a break,then the Lipper tour was offered,the whores took the money and kept going

Neal has said he doesn't need money anymore and could have already retired. Why couldn't they take a break? They're just playing the same setlist, day in and day out. What harm would it have been to take off a year? Unless the band really DID need the money.
Augeri does deserve blame here also though. The guy wussed out and didn't put his foot down. Granted, he would have probably been fired earlier if he did that, but then the whole vocal dubbing nightmare may never have seen the light of day.

[stevew2]

Steve's voice was shot. Neal and Jon wanted to keep going. Tapes were used. We do not know whose idea they were but I am confident they all knew about it. It was discovered. It played out here. It got ugly. Neal and Jon needed to force the issue so they made Steve sing without tapes. He couldn't, he was embarassed, he formally stepped down due to health.

The shameful things? Neal and Jon kept pushing the tours when Steve needed a break. Steve had more than just vocal health issues. Neal and Jon said Steve would return when he could but it appears now that would never happen. They bring in JSS and almost immediately after Steve's official retirement from Journey they hire him. And then Kevin Cronin "fires" him!

Thats pretty much it, and they were going to take a break,then the Lipper tour was offered,the whores took the money and kept going

Neal has said he doesn't need money anymore and could have already retired. Why couldn't they take a break? They're just playing the same setlist, day in and day out. What harm would it have been to take off a year? Unless Schon really DOES need the money.

what is fucked it that after they fired jeff they went a year without touring anyway, how retarded is that? He needs the money, fucker cant keep his dick in his pant,that the real deal for ya

[Onestepper]

Uhh..Schon had nothing to do with Fleischman getting axed. That was 100% HH via pressure from the label. He didn't give them a choice. Augeri's voice gave out, they didn't have a choice. And Perry left on his own, twice. So other than the debacle that was JSS, I don't really see your point have much validity to it. Has it been a circus of singers? Yes. But I think to blame that all on two people is short sided, and not taking all of the factors into account.

The label did not pressure Herbie into firing Fleischman. The lable pressured Herbie into getting a lead singer. Fleischman was the guy they hired. Fleischman, according to Herbie anyway, was just a problem child and to hard to deal with as a manager. Herbie wanted him out anyway, and then Perry came along and he was gone.

Fine. But the point remains that it was Herbie's call, and his insistence that Perry was the next singer. NS had no say in the matter if he wanted to remain with the label.

[Deb]

Steve's voice was shot. Neal and Jon wanted to keep going. Tapes were used. We do not know whose idea they were but I am confident they all knew about it. It was discovered. It played out here. It got ugly. Neal and Jon needed to force the issue so they made Steve sing without tapes. He couldn't, he was embarassed, he formally stepped down due to health.

The shameful things? Neal and Jon kept pushing the tours when Steve needed a break. Steve had more than just vocal health issues. Neal and Jon said Steve would return when he could but it appears now that would never happen. They bring in JSS and almost immediately after Steve's official retirement from Journey they hire him. And then Kevin Cronin "fires" him!

Great post Dave. That pretty much sums it up.

[jrnyman28]

Steve's voice was shot. Neal and Jon wanted to keep going. Tapes were used. We do not know whose idea they were but I am confident they all knew about it. It was discovered. It played out here. It got ugly. Neal and Jon needed to force the issue so they made Steve sing without tapes. He couldn't, he was embarassed, he formally stepped down due to health.

The shameful things? Neal and Jon kept pushing the tours when Steve needed a break. Steve had more than just vocal health issues. Neal and Jon said Steve would return when he could but it appears now that would never happen. They bring in JSS and almost immediately after Steve's official retirement from Journey they hire him. And then Kevin Cronin "fires" him!

Great post Dave. That pretty much sums it up.

That's what I was going for...a quick summation!