jrny film- dsb

[Rhiannon]

so how does this work when you have bands selling live soundboard recordings at gigs (ie Rob Thomas) and throwing covers in the set??

See above about audio rights vs. copyright/publishing rights.

so theory says you are going to have unauthorized and/or illegal recordings being sold sooner or later as far as copyright/publishing goes, especially the way some bands will throw something spontaneously in the set for kicks.

Actually, they already are. Just not on a major name artist level.

[bluejeangirl76]

so how does this work when you have bands selling live soundboard recordings at gigs (ie Rob Thomas) and throwing covers in the set??

See above about audio rights vs. copyright/publishing rights.

There are also performance rights/royalties to be considered which I believe is where concerts/soundboard recordings may come in... although a recording of a performance may be something apart from performance royalties... I do admit, I don't know the leagalities of all that business.

In any case, without knowing who holds which rights, it's too hard to say who is allowed/disallowed to do what and where and why... it seems like Journey can use it as a title, use the music, etc without permission as long as "someone" gets paid. I can't imagine it's an issue of permission because if permission were required, I think that project would probably have a different title, and I think Revelation would have been one disc and one dvd.

[Rhiannon]

I agree with what you are saying to a point. I'm saying if you do all the paperwork, and the obligatory things that they all make you do, they can't just tell you "No, you can't cover our song".

Well, yeah, they still can if they really want to fight you over it, or else no one would ever get sued over sampling someone else's music. Since it is the same thing for music and lyrics. That is why, because of IPR rules, you CAN begin to press the discs, most plants won't because they don't want to be collateral damage in some lawsuit.

Of course we wouldn't have this problem if people could just be original...

[Rhiannon]

There are also performance rights/royalties to be considered which I believe is where concerts/soundboard recordings may come in... although a recording of a performance may be something apart from performance royalties... I do admit, I don't know the leagalities of all that business.

In any case, without knowing who holds which rights, it's too hard to say who is allowed/disallowed to do what and where and why... it seems like Journey can use it as a title, use the music, etc without permission as long as "someone" gets paid. I can't imagine it's an issue of permission because if permission were required, I think that project would probably have a different title, and I think Revelation would have been one disc and one dvd.

I can explain this to you the way I can't to everyone else... you know that nice "compilation" 2-disc set my ol' buddy gave you last summer? Notice how those were done NOT at a plant?

And you even asked "How can they... without..." and I told you why and how... that's how it flies.

[kgdjpubs]

so how does this work when you have bands selling live soundboard recordings at gigs (ie Rob Thomas) and throwing covers in the set??

See above about audio rights vs. copyright/publishing rights.

so theory says you are going to have unauthorized and/or illegal recordings being sold sooner or later as far as copyright/publishing goes, especially the way some bands will throw something spontaneously in the set for kicks.

Actually, they already are. Just not on a major name artist level.

I would call Rob Thomas in that level. He's throwing in some spontaneous covers on his current tour and selling soundboard recordings.

I guess the whole thing is VERY gray-area at the moment, since the rules were not written with the idea that immediate soundboard recordings would be available for purchase at the end of a show.

[bluejeangirl76]

There are also performance rights/royalties to be considered which I believe is where concerts/soundboard recordings may come in... although a recording of a performance may be something apart from performance royalties... I do admit, I don't know the leagalities of all that business.

In any case, without knowing who holds which rights, it's too hard to say who is allowed/disallowed to do what and where and why... it seems like Journey can use it as a title, use the music, etc without permission as long as "someone" gets paid. I can't imagine it's an issue of permission because if permission were required, I think that project would probably have a different title, and I think Revelation would have been one disc and one dvd.

I can explain this to you the way I can't to everyone else... you know that nice "compilation" 2-disc set my ol' buddy gave you last summer? Notice how those were done NOT at a plant?

And you even asked "How can they... without..." and I told you why and how... that's how it flies.

Yes, I fully understand how that guy did it... but we're talking about Journey. They wouldn't have gotten away with that. What I was saying is that permission, I assume, is not required by the 3rd songwriter here. Now, I don't know the guy, but if it was, I cannot imagine him giving it. But they still put that disc out, legally.

[Don]

I agree with what you are saying to a point. I'm saying if you do all the paperwork, and the obligatory things that they all make you do, they can't just tell you "No, you can't cover our song".

Well, yeah, they still can if they really want to fight you over it, or else no one would ever get sued over sampling someone else's music. Since it is the same thing for music and lyrics. That is why, because of IPR rules, you CAN begin to press the discs, most plants won't because they don't want to be collateral damage in some lawsuit.

Of course we wouldn't have this problem if people could just be original...

Well, sampling is a whole different can of worms. Those doing it originally weren't even acknowledging or paying royalties for the samples and were altering the melody and lyrics to fit into their rhymes.

Gilbert O'Sullivan was the one who first sued and won a major case with that, when Biz Markie? Used part of his song "Alone Again, Naturally" without his knowledge.

Billy Squier has made more money off of Jay-Z and others sampling his song "The Beat" than he ever made off of his own record sales.

[stevew2]

I agree with what you are saying to a point. I'm saying if you do all the paperwork, and the obligatory things that they all make you do, they can't just tell you "No, you can't cover our song".

Well, yeah, they still can if they really want to fight you over it, or else no one would ever get sued over sampling someone else's music. Since it is the same thing for music and lyrics. That is why, because of IPR rules, you CAN begin to press the discs, most plants won't because they don't want to be collateral damage in some lawsuit.

Of course we wouldn't have this problem if people could just be original...

Well, sampling is a whole different can of worms. Those doing it originally weren't even acknowledging or paying royalties for the samples and were altering the melody and lyrics to fit into their rhymes.

Gilbert O'Sullivan was the one who first sued and won a major case with that, when Biz Markie? Used part of his song "Alone Again, Naturally" without his knowledge.

Billy Squier has made more money off of Jay-Z and others sampling his song "The Beat" than he ever made off of his own record sales.

Both them guys were gay

[tammy]

I don't have a problem with it...I think the song really belongs to everyone and anyone who takes it to heart. Isn't that what a songwriter hopes for? (besides, the message/phrase itself isn't new.)
So, for Arnel that struggle to survive & keep on believing that he would rise out of the poverty & sadness and get somewhere by his talent is just a testament to the song. I'm sure in turn this film is going to inspire and give a lot of hope to those in the same situation AP was once in...to quote Martha, "it's a good thing."