Better DVD: Journey 2001 v. Live In Manila

[Rockindeano]

2001. Primarily for La Raza Del Sol, and the audio mix is easily 10x better. Really feels like a rock show. Manila sucks because the audio is horrible. Ask The Lonely especially, while it rocks on the 2001 DVD

LOL, the audio mix had better be good on the Vegas dvd...it was recorded in a fucking studio for Christ's sake! That thing is not remotely live!

[Don]

Even the HD company guys that filmed the DVD in Manila said the product released by Wal-Mart is absolutely not even close to what they recorded sonically. The source material is 10x Better as it was meant for Blu-Ray and beyond.

[Saint John]

Even the HD company guys that filmed the DVD in Manila said the product released by Wal-Mart is absolutely not even close to what they recorded sonically. The source material is 10x Better as it was meant for Blu-Ray and beyond.

Which begs the question ... will it ever be released in a better format than it already has been?

[Don]

Even the HD company guys that filmed the DVD in Manila said the product released by Wal-Mart is absolutely not even close to what they recorded sonically. The source material is 10x Better as it was meant for Blu-Ray and beyond.

Which begs the question ... will it ever be released in a better format than it already has been?

I think the plan is to eventually release a box set of Journey's history on Enhanced DVD or Blu-Ray. The problem is getting with Sony and whoever else has gotten publishing rights on the footage over the years.

[Saint John]

Even the HD company guys that filmed the DVD in Manila said the product released by Wal-Mart is absolutely not even close to what they recorded sonically. The source material is 10x Better as it was meant for Blu-Ray and beyond.

Which begs the question ... will it ever be released in a better format than it already has been?

I think the plan is to eventually release a box set of Journey's history on Enhanced DVD or Blu-Ray. The problem is getting with Sony and whoever else has gotten publishing rights on the footage over the years.

Question: What level of quality is Blu Ray in comparison to the technology that the Manila show was shot in? I'm hoping for a package deal of the Manila show on Blu Ray (I think that "other" technology is a few years away) and the new CD.

[brywool]

as far as the 'excitement' factor, I'd go with Manilla. Augeri was just too laid back for me and to see Neal kind of shying away from him all night was kind of a drag.

As for sound, Vegas is great sounding while Manilla sounds like crap.

Though the second Vegas one was kind of dark, I also liked that. Thought it sounded much better than Manilla.

[Don]

Even the HD company guys that filmed the DVD in Manila said the product released by Wal-Mart is absolutely not even close to what they recorded sonically. The source material is 10x Better as it was meant for Blu-Ray and beyond.

Which begs the question ... will it ever be released in a better format than it already has been?

I think the plan is to eventually release a box set of Journey's history on Enhanced DVD or Blu-Ray. The problem is getting with Sony and whoever else has gotten publishing rights on the footage over the years.

Question: What level of quality is Blu Ray in comparison to the technology that the Manila show was shot in? I'm hoping for a package deal of the Manila show on Blu Ray (I think that "other" technology is a few years away) and the new CD.

Theoretically, The Manila show was shot at a resolution 4X greater than what you see with Blu-Ray, which is the upper limit of what a 1080p TV set can handle anyway (4X HD is still some time away for home systems). The Audio portion though should be the same as if you were actually ther live, which is like listening to a SACD as compared to what you hear when a Standard DVD has to compress the sound due to space constraints, sort of like degrading music to make it smaller like MP3s do.

Now, AC-DC was able to sell their Blu-Ray package at Wal-Mart for 20 dollars (as opposed to Journey's disc being sold for 10 dollars) and it sold well enough.
The fear with the marketers could be that Journey doesn't have the same type of hardcore fanbase that would be willing to spend 10 dollars more for a superior product. These are the ccustomers who will buy a720p flat screen and not know that it is priced cheaper because it is not top of the line visually like a 1080p.

To them the flat screen is the selling point, not the actual specs.

[Saint John]

Thanks for the explanation, Don. I don't own a Blu Ray player, nor have I ever watched a movie in that sort of technology. Is $20 pretty standard for a Blu Ray release? If so, a package deal might cross some sort of targeted $$$ threshold. Regardless, they better, at some fucking point, get the product out there for those that would like to purchase it. I'm just starting to wonder if Journey was nothing more than a guinea pig for this new technology, and they just wanted a "live run" before they actually start recording for shows they're going actually release.

[Don]

Thanks for the explanation, Don. I don't own a Blu Ray player, nor have I ever watched a movie in that sort of technology. Is $20 pretty standard for a Blu Ray release? If so, a package deal might cross some sort of targeted $$$ threshold. Regardless, they better, at some fucking point, get the product out there for those that would like to purchase it. I'm just starting to wonder if Journey was nothing more than a guinea pig for this new technology, and they just wanted a "live run" before they actually start recording for shows they're going actually release.

I think Journey was the fourth band they used this with.
Disney has taken the lead with Blu-Ray by packaging it together with a standard DVD (to be used in the car/portable player or the kids room) and I think they now include a digital copy to be used on Ipods and personal video players. That Package is usually between 20 to 35 dollars.
For regular packaging, the DVD VS BLU-RAY price Difference is usally 10 dollars across the board. Another advantage being for Blu-Ray is they can hold more than five times the data of a regular DVD so one Bu-ray may have more extra stuff than a double DVD pack, though that's not always the case.

[FamilyMan]

I still think the Tokyo boot from 1981 is better than Houston.

Is that Rolies last show? If so, Herbie says that was indeed the best Journey show ever played. Or was this an Escape show? Either way, it wouldn't be as good as a Frontiers gig if the band would ever put out a show from that tour, because you would have the added songs that Frontiers produced....same thing with ROR...They are really missing an era where they could make some money...if they would just ask SP to produce an Frontiers or ROR show, it would sell.

No, this is an Escape Show where they played The Party's Over, Lay Down, Too Late, etc. but left Open Arms off of the setlist.

Is it the one with "Turn Around Tokyo" and the one where the back up delays on the "Too Late" got out of sync?

Uh oh.

[Infinity Vocalist 2010]

I'm going to have to go with Manila for this one. I waited for it, and for what it's worth now, sound problems and all, it was still an epic show. The extended versions of the songs were killer. Maybe these guys should consider doing an Extended Versions CD like Foreigner, Speedwagon, Kansas, etc. did.
Deen was great, loved his vocals on Keep on Runnin'. Neal was great as per usual, and the segway between Ask the Lonely and Stone in Love was amazing. Friga was alright, but seemed a little on autopilot at times, even during his stints on rhythm guitar, but whatever, I can live with J-Cain keeping a straight face. Arnel was just plain awesome, enough said.
Again, with the sound, I do realize that it's not as good as they say, hell, I've seen some handheld shit on YouTube from this show that have some things we didn't see or hear, like the vocal echo effects used on some songs, noticeably on Separate Ways (you can hear those if you watch videos from Graspop or Kobetasonik). I can say I wouldn't greatly miss Friga blowing his harmonica, so the fact that it was edited around on the DVD doesn't faze me.
The length was good, I like long concerts. Though having to switch DVDs near the end of the set is a bit of a drag, it does make for a nice intermisson when watching it with others.

For these reasons, and more I'll get to, Live in Manila tops 2001 in my mind. 2001 was seemingly solid and I bought it because, well, it's Journey, and admittedly I got it before I learned of Tapegate. The band does perform well, especially Neal, who shines in his performance. Watching it more than 3 times has made me like Augeri alot less, and what others have said about him lipping and chumming with Friga, and just his general demeanor, well, it fazes me a little, and Steve-A just comes off a bit of a douche here, even though as lots of fans have said, he's a stand up guy, which I do believe. 2001, now knowing what I know, is just painful to watch. I've replayed Manila more times than 2001, so it gets the vote.


As for them producing something from Frontiers or ROR, I would DEFINITELY buy a DVD of ROR, simply because the ROR videos on the Greatest Hits DVD give off a great but sad vibe, knowing the band was about to break up and the whole Perry debacle on the production of the album, and though Perry was toast, I just dig his raspy shouting.

[Glenn]

I still think the Tokyo boot from 1981 is better than Houston.

Amen!

[Glenn]

Manila for all the reasons stated here...

I just wish I could have a quality show on DVD when Soto was fronting the band.

[Don]

Manila for all the reasons stated here...

I just wish I could have a quality show on DVD when Soto was fronting the band.

Do you have the one from Omaha?

[lights1961]

DSB on the Journey 2001 show is killer, love that version of the song... Also, its just what got is all back into Journey in the first place.

[YankeeRose]

Journey 2001 is a much better concert. Higher Place is amazing live.

[steveo777]

Journey 2001 is a much better concert. Higher Place is amazing live.

That ain't live. The video is.

[Don]

Journey 2001 is a much better concert. Higher Place is amazing live.

That ain't live. The video is.

The way they muffled the crowd noise, tha Manila DVD might as well be a studio recording also.

[steveo777]

Journey 2001 is a much better concert. Higher Place is amazing live.

That ain't live. The video is.

The way they muffled the crowd noise, tha Manila DVD might as well be a studio recording also.

The Blu Ray will reveal the true quality of this production. Someone buy it and upload it so I don't have to spend the money!

[Don]

Journey 2001 is a much better concert. Higher Place is amazing live.

That ain't live. The video is.

The way they muffled the crowd noise, tha Manila DVD might as well be a studio recording also.

The Blu Ray will reveal the true quality of this production. Someone buy it and upload it so I don't have to spend the money!

If it doesn't make it onto Pirate Bay, that will confirm that it's shit.

[FamilyMan]

This is tough. The Arrival DVD is better, but we all know why. The Manila DVD is deeper and has much less of a polished, but live, feel to it. I'll take the Manila DVD, based on its depth. But I really like them both.

Back when I was still a good fan. I loved the Arrival dvd...now that I know it isn't even live....fuck all. Watching Augeri slide across the stage in his gay red leather pants, chumming it up with Frig...knowing he isn't live makes me vomit. I could watch Pineda because he sings so well, although I think his stage presence is embarrassing. His voice bails him out IMO.

Deano, just watched the Arrival DVD again today. I'm still not convinced. There are a myriad of moments when Augeri breaks from the predictable vocal line and will talk to the audience or ad-lib the vocals.
Could he really have been that rehearsed and that smooth to lip sync his own ad-libs?

If you're saying he repaired some vocals later in post, that's one thing. But don't bash the performance, accusing him of "knowing he isn't live," because in that moment - for all intense and purposes, he is. If the band chose to repair or replace vocals later, that's a choice they made as a unit.

[Rockindeano]

This is tough. The Arrival DVD is better, but we all know why. The Manila DVD is deeper and has much less of a polished, but live, feel to it. I'll take the Manila DVD, based on its depth. But I really like them both.

Back when I was still a good fan. I loved the Arrival dvd...now that I know it isn't even live....fuck all. Watching Augeri slide across the stage in his gay red leather pants, chumming it up with Frig...knowing he isn't live makes me vomit. I could watch Pineda because he sings so well, although I think his stage presence is embarrassing. His voice bails him out IMO.

Deano, just watched the Arrival DVD again today. I'm still not convinced. There are a myriad of moments when Augeri breaks from the predictable vocal line and will talk to the audience or ad-lib the vocals.
Could he really have been that rehearsed and that smooth to lip sync his own ad-libs?

If you're saying he repaired some vocals later in post, that's one thing. But don't bash the performance, accusing him of "knowing he isn't live," because in that moment - for all intense and purposes, he is. If the band chose to repair or replace vocals later, that's a choice they made as a unit.

Why is it so hard for you people to understand all of this?

Augeri did sing live in this concert. That was the problem. He sang live and sounded so shitty, they rerecorded the entire thing in studio, so what you hear on the DVD is rerecorded vox. This wasn't a lipped show. This show(audio) however, was used later(3 years later), for the Mimed tour(2005). Get it now? This 2001 DVD when you hear it is not live, but recorded in studio, however, what you see on the DVD he is singing live.

Any more questions?

[FamilyMan]

This is tough. The Arrival DVD is better, but we all know why. The Manila DVD is deeper and has much less of a polished, but live, feel to it. I'll take the Manila DVD, based on its depth. But I really like them both.

Back when I was still a good fan. I loved the Arrival dvd...now that I know it isn't even live....fuck all. Watching Augeri slide across the stage in his gay red leather pants, chumming it up with Frig...knowing he isn't live makes me vomit. I could watch Pineda because he sings so well, although I think his stage presence is embarrassing. His voice bails him out IMO.

Deano, just watched the Arrival DVD again today. I'm still not convinced. There are a myriad of moments when Augeri breaks from the predictable vocal line and will talk to the audience or ad-lib the vocals.
Could he really have been that rehearsed and that smooth to lip sync his own ad-libs?

If you're saying he repaired some vocals later in post, that's one thing. But don't bash the performance, accusing him of "knowing he isn't live," because in that moment - for all intense and purposes, he is. If the band chose to repair or replace vocals later, that's a choice they made as a unit.

Why is it so hard for you people to understand all of this?

Augeri did sing live in this concert. That was the problem. He sang live and sounded so shitty, they rerecorded the entire thing in studio, so what you hear on the DVD is rerecorded vox. This wasn't a lipped show. This show(audio) however, was used later(3 years later), for the Mimed tour(2005). Get it now? This 2001 DVD when you hear it is not live, but recorded in studio, however, what you see on the DVD he is singing live.

Any more questions?

But you're accusation: "watching Augeri slide across the stage... knowing he isn't live" isn't a fair one. That's my main point...

[Rockindeano]

This is tough. The Arrival DVD is better, but we all know why. The Manila DVD is deeper and has much less of a polished, but live, feel to it. I'll take the Manila DVD, based on its depth. But I really like them both.

Back when I was still a good fan. I loved the Arrival dvd...now that I know it isn't even live....fuck all. Watching Augeri slide across the stage in his gay red leather pants, chumming it up with Frig...knowing he isn't live makes me vomit. I could watch Pineda because he sings so well, although I think his stage presence is embarrassing. His voice bails him out IMO.

Deano, just watched the Arrival DVD again today. I'm still not convinced. There are a myriad of moments when Augeri breaks from the predictable vocal line and will talk to the audience or ad-lib the vocals.
Could he really have been that rehearsed and that smooth to lip sync his own ad-libs?

If you're saying he repaired some vocals later in post, that's one thing. But don't bash the performance, accusing him of "knowing he isn't live," because in that moment - for all intense and purposes, he is. If the band chose to repair or replace vocals later, that's a choice they made as a unit.

Why is it so hard for you people to understand all of this?

Augeri did sing live in this concert. That was the problem. He sang live and sounded so shitty, they rerecorded the entire thing in studio, so what you hear on the DVD is rerecorded vox. This wasn't a lipped show. This show(audio) however, was used later(3 years later), for the Mimed tour(2005). Get it now? This 2001 DVD when you hear it is not live, but recorded in studio, however, what you see on the DVD he is singing live.

Any more questions?

But you're accusation: "watching Augeri slide across the stage... knowing he isn't live" isn't a fair one. That's my main point...

Have I said that? I probably did, but I don't think I said it about this particular video. I know you love Augeri dude, but you cannot put off the truth by continually questioning me or others about whether he lipped or not. Your boy got bested, plain and simple. All you are doing is making the Wigglers look more and more stupid; denying isn't going to take away the crime.

And the comment still still holds merit. If he was sliding across the stage, like he did 3 years after this show, KNOWINGLY doing it to a tape, that is despicable. Yes, the entire band are assholes, no one disputes that except Saint John, Jana and Steveo, but Augeri himself has to shoulder his fair share of the fraud.

[YoungJRNY]

Hey Dean, I always wondered. What percentage of the 2001 DVD was actually live and what percentage was dubbed in for the studio vocals? They couldn't of put in the whole studio version and had to of left in some live vocals from Augeri since he add-libbed in between breaths and talked to the crowd and all of that stuff so how much was used to flow in sync with the live version on stage? 60-40? 80-20?

[StephenWJ]

2001 - Not even close.

[Rockindeano]

Hey Dean, I always wondered. What percentage of the 2001 DVD was actually live and what percentage was dubbed in for the studio vocals? They couldn't of put in the whole studio version and had to of left in some live vocals from Augeri since he add-libbed in between breaths and talked to the crowd and all of that stuff so how much was used to flow in sync with the live version on stage? 60-40? 80-20?

I don't know. I can't lie about it, but I want to say it is higher than 80-20 (rerecorded/adlibbed). If it's anyrhing like their lipped concerts, then I would say 95-5. The only times SA was live was the last few seconds of each song where he would segue into the next song, and he was live the majority of LTS, which anyone of us can sing easily.

[StephenWJ]

Hey Dean, I always wondered. What percentage of the 2001 DVD was actually live and what percentage was dubbed in for the studio vocals? They couldn't of put in the whole studio version and had to of left in some live vocals from Augeri since he add-libbed in between breaths and talked to the crowd and all of that stuff so how much was used to flow in sync with the live version on stage? 60-40? 80-20?

I don't know. I can't lie about it, but I want to say it is higher than 80-20 (rerecorded/adlibbed). If it's anyrhing like their lipped concerts, then I would say 95-5. The only times SA was live was the last few seconds of each song where he would segue into the next song, and he was live the majority of LTS, which anyone of us can sing easily.

Man, I wish you'd stop ruining my fun with that DVD lol. I remember back when that DVD came out I was 17 or 18 and still discovering the Augeri era and wanted to believe it was all completely natural.

That being said, this was before I got into "the business" lol.

[Rockindeano]

Hey Dean, I always wondered. What percentage of the 2001 DVD was actually live and what percentage was dubbed in for the studio vocals? They couldn't of put in the whole studio version and had to of left in some live vocals from Augeri since he add-libbed in between breaths and talked to the crowd and all of that stuff so how much was used to flow in sync with the live version on stage? 60-40? 80-20?

I don't know. I can't lie about it, but I want to say it is higher than 80-20 (rerecorded/adlibbed). If it's anyrhing like their lipped concerts, then I would say 95-5. The only times SA was live was the last few seconds of each song where he would segue into the next song, and he was live the majority of LTS, which anyone of us can sing easily.

Man, I wish you'd stop ruining my fun with that DVD lol. I remember back when that DVD came out I was 17 or 18 and still discovering the Augeri era and wanted to believe it was all completely natural.

That being said, this was before I got into "the business" lol.

How do you think I feel? I loved that DVD. Thought Journey was back....um, not so fast my friend.

I heaved that piece of shit out the car window on the 101 freeway. Never looked back.

[StephenWJ]

Hey Dean, I always wondered. What percentage of the 2001 DVD was actually live and what percentage was dubbed in for the studio vocals? They couldn't of put in the whole studio version and had to of left in some live vocals from Augeri since he add-libbed in between breaths and talked to the crowd and all of that stuff so how much was used to flow in sync with the live version on stage? 60-40? 80-20?

I don't know. I can't lie about it, but I want to say it is higher than 80-20 (rerecorded/adlibbed). If it's anyrhing like their lipped concerts, then I would say 95-5. The only times SA was live was the last few seconds of each song where he would segue into the next song, and he was live the majority of LTS, which anyone of us can sing easily.

Man, I wish you'd stop ruining my fun with that DVD lol. I remember back when that DVD came out I was 17 or 18 and still discovering the Augeri era and wanted to believe it was all completely natural.

That being said, this was before I got into "the business" lol.

How do you think I feel? I loved that DVD. Thought Journey was back....um, not so fast my friend.

I heaved that piece of shit out the car window on the 101 freeway. Never looked back.

I can't bring myself to get rid of it, Neals guitar playing is mighty tasty on some of that video!