The Headline

[Rockindeano]

I always thought BOTH Shirley and Elson stunk. Fuck both of those clowns. If they want a hit, make the call dummies...Mutt Freaking Lange.

[brywool]

I always thought BOTH Shirley and Elson stunk. Fuck both of those clowns. If they want a hit, make the call dummies...Mutt Freaking Lange.

I dunno Deano... I remember hearing a Bryan Adams song that Mutt produced and it sounded just like Def Leppard. Musta been off of Waking Up the Neighbors, did he produce other BA albums? I can't recall.
I certainly didn't like Shirley's treatment of Perry's voice on TBF. It was distorted as hell through a lot of it. I think it was better on the other albums, but on TBF, man... I can't believe they thought that'd be good on SP's voice.

[The_Noble_Cause]

After Rob Cavallo's brilliant and fearless job producing MeatLoaf's last album, I'd love to see him take a crack at Journey.

[Eric]

The heavier shows they did in '09 were excellent I thought...and just listen to Dean-O's Atlantic City boot with JSS that was great heavier too. Red13 with a producer could have been a gem. They should have continued on from the second side of Frontiers in '84 without Perry. I'm hoping for that on this album.

I hope they all fought like crazy....it will make a good record. If it bombs, the tension will take them off the road sure, but if it does okay these guys aren't throwing away what they rebuilt because there is some tension.

And I'll mention it again, but for Christ Sakes we're talking about a new Journey album in 2011. Back in 1995 we'd have been pretty pumped to know that they were back for the long haul. This is their 6th album and 5th post-Perry. Not shabby. We have song titles, samples, album title and art to look forward to arguing about.

AND...to the Perry-onlies on here, you SHOULD be hoping for a successful, great album...because if they are any more successful than they were with Revelation, that guy won't be able to stay away. He'll want to protect his legacy, and Revelation and the media and tour from it already had him sweating.

[Andrew]

Question for Andrew,

Did you get the impression, either specifically or from the context of his comments, that Shirley was let go by Journey during the production of the new record, or that he either just got too tied up to finish the mixing or fed up and moved on to something else? Historically if a producer is actually "fired" from the process, they don't have their name on the finished product, but this could have been a compromise for him to come back in and clean up things at a later stage.

I'll answer questions after Part 2, which might shed a little extra light on things.

[Seven Wishes2]

If by heavier they mean something like "Red 13" I won't buy the album. PURE shite.

Neal has written AMAZING hooks for Bad English, Hardline, and a ton of other artists (Styx and Night Ranger, for instance). That leads me to believe the compromises he has to make for MopHead tend to dilute the sound of the finished product.

[slucero]

I always thought BOTH Shirley and Elson stunk. Fuck both of those clowns. If they want a hit, make the call dummies...Mutt Freaking Lange.

I dunno Deano... I remember hearing a Bryan Adams song that Mutt produced and it sounded just like Def Leppard. Musta been off of Waking Up the Neighbors, did he produce other BA albums? I can't recall.
I certainly didn't like Shirley's treatment of Perry's voice on TBF. It was distorted as hell through a lot of it. I think it was better on the other albums, but on TBF, man... I can't believe they thought that'd be good on SP's voice.

What Mutt did with Maroon 5 is brilliant songwriting and production-wise.... the era of huge Mutt-Def back vocals is gone... Mutt single-handedly invented syllable-level equalization with the advent of SSL EQ automation...

I'd love to have heard Mutt produce a Perry sung album...

[Jeremey]

I always thought BOTH Shirley and Elson stunk. Fuck both of those clowns. If they want a hit, make the call dummies...Mutt Freaking Lange.

I dunno Deano... I remember hearing a Bryan Adams song that Mutt produced and it sounded just like Def Leppard. Musta been off of Waking Up the Neighbors, did he produce other BA albums? I can't recall.
I certainly didn't like Shirley's treatment of Perry's voice on TBF. It was distorted as hell through a lot of it. I think it was better on the other albums, but on TBF, man... I can't believe they thought that'd be good on SP's voice.

What Mutt did with Maroon 5 is brilliant songwriting and production-wise.... the era of huge Mutt-Def back vocals is gone... Mutt single-handedly invented syllable-level equalization with the advent of SSL EQ automation...

I'd love to have heard Mutt produce a Perry sung album...

!!!!!!

Can't agree more.......

[SherriBerry]

I always thought BOTH Shirley and Elson stunk. Fuck both of those clowns. If they want a hit, make the call dummies...Mutt Freaking Lange.

I dunno Deano... I remember hearing a Bryan Adams song that Mutt produced and it sounded just like Def Leppard. Musta been off of Waking Up the Neighbors, did he produce other BA albums? I can't recall.
I certainly didn't like Shirley's treatment of Perry's voice on TBF. It was distorted as hell through a lot of it. I think it was better on the other albums, but on TBF, man... I can't believe they thought that'd be good on SP's voice.

What Mutt did with Maroon 5 is brilliant songwriting and production-wise.... the era of huge Mutt-Def back vocals is gone... Mutt single-handedly invented syllable-level equalization with the advent of SSL EQ automation...

I'd love to have heard Mutt produce a Perry sung album...

!!!!!!

Can't agree more.......

I said over a year ago that they should go with Mutt Lange when the band started talking about writing a new album! But then, would Mutt Lange have time for them given the other artists waiting in line to work with him?

I think TBF went so well because if nothing else, Steve Perry brings a great deal of focus and perfectionism and he balances Neal and Jon. Arrival seems to be an anomaly - Generations was a complete disaster and Revelation was weak. I liked some of the songs, but except for Never Walk Away and that horrific lyric in What It Takes to Win"...there is no 'I' in 'team'" (gag), it was very forgettable.

The rumour about it being "Eastern influenced" might stem from that weird clip at the end of the first disc that had some East Indian-styled vocals by Neal's ex-girlfriend Lori, but I think that is her style, not his. When they said they were going in a new direction or that it was going to be a "concept album", people might have thought that was it, but that concept is hardly unique. Shania did that on her Up album with a "World" version of her songs that were downloadable, but I didn't care for them then either.

[steveo777]

I always thought BOTH Shirley and Elson stunk. Fuck both of those clowns. If they want a hit, make the call dummies...Mutt Freaking Lange.

I dunno Deano... I remember hearing a Bryan Adams song that Mutt produced and it sounded just like Def Leppard. Musta been off of Waking Up the Neighbors, did he produce other BA albums? I can't recall.
I certainly didn't like Shirley's treatment of Perry's voice on TBF. It was distorted as hell through a lot of it. I think it was better on the other albums, but on TBF, man... I can't believe they thought that'd be good on SP's voice.

What Mutt did with Maroon 5 is brilliant songwriting and production-wise.... the era of huge Mutt-Def back vocals is gone... Mutt single-handedly invented syllable-level equalization with the advent of SSL EQ automation...

I'd love to have heard Mutt produce a Perry sung album...

Me too, but that would require singing and that is not gonna happen. They say never say never, I am saying never so I can be proven wrong.

[portland]

I always thought BOTH Shirley and Elson stunk. Fuck both of those clowns. If they want a hit, make the call dummies...Mutt Freaking Lange.

I dunno Deano... I remember hearing a Bryan Adams song that Mutt produced and it sounded just like Def Leppard. Musta been off of Waking Up the Neighbors, did he produce other BA albums? I can't recall.
I certainly didn't like Shirley's treatment of Perry's voice on TBF. It was distorted as hell through a lot of it. I think it was better on the other albums, but on TBF, man... I can't believe they thought that'd be good on SP's voice.

What Mutt did with Maroon 5 is brilliant songwriting and production-wise.... the era of huge Mutt-Def back vocals is gone... Mutt single-handedly invented syllable-level equalization with the advent of SSL EQ automation...

I'd love to have heard Mutt produce a Perry sung album...

Me too, but that would require singing and that is not gonna happen. They say never say never, I am saying never so I can be proven wrong.

I am sure I could call your wife and get MANY instances of you being wrong.

[brywool]

What Mutt did with Maroon 5 is brilliant songwriting and production-wise.... the era of huge Mutt-Def back vocals is gone... Mutt single-handedly invented syllable-level equalization with the advent of SSL EQ automation...

I'd love to have heard Mutt produce a Perry sung album...

Cool. I don't listen to them too much, and was unaware that he produced them.

[sniper16]

i think when neal says heavier, he means more guitar oriented, journeys not going to turn into a metal band, just more songs like stone in love, anyway you want it. as for ks im not impressed with what ive heard, when he had a huge budget on tbf all the rockier stuff was muddy, he gets a decent sound on the ballads, he obviously gets a decent recording fast for budget reasons, i did think revelatios was a decent job, but i would have liked to hear kevin beamish or maybe dan huff hand in it.jon could write whos cryin 2 and it woudnt matter, so how about a little rockin on this record/tour.

[donnaplease]

There's a definite difference between the Rollie/Perry era Schon soloing vs the Perry/Cain era soloing... songwriting too... I thought the Perry/Rollie era songwriting had a better blend of melody & hard edge.... the addition of Cain definitely took the edge off their sound...

You make a very good point. They traded their edge for commercial success. I'm wondering if a more commercial friendly sound was a stipulation to get Cain to join the band. Or did Herbie have something to do with it?

Neither. It was all SP's fault...

[portland]

There's a definite difference between the Rollie/Perry era Schon soloing vs the Perry/Cain era soloing... songwriting too... I thought the Perry/Rollie era songwriting had a better blend of melody & hard edge.... the addition of Cain definitely took the edge off their sound...

You make a very good point. They traded their edge for commercial success. I'm wondering if a more commercial friendly sound was a stipulation to get Cain to join the band. Or did Herbie have something to do with it?

Neither. It was all SP's fault...

Isn't everything?

[steveo777]

There's a definite difference between the Rollie/Perry era Schon soloing vs the Perry/Cain era soloing... songwriting too... I thought the Perry/Rollie era songwriting had a better blend of melody & hard edge.... the addition of Cain definitely took the edge off their sound...

You make a very good point. They traded their edge for commercial success. I'm wondering if a more commercial friendly sound was a stipulation to get Cain to join the band. Or did Herbie have something to do with it?

Neither. It was all SP's fault...

Isn't everything?

Yes...especially when you consult the Journey book of Saint John.

[Duncan]

I must have missed something. Someone clue me in please.

Journey fired Kevin Shirley, the producer of TBF, Revelation and most of their new album. He's not mixing it.

So, in other words, Neal and Shirley wanted a heavier album and Friga wanted another album full of mushy soft rock crap. Since we all know that Friga has all the control and since he obviously can't fire Neal, Kevin got the boot. It's becoming more and more obvious that Friga has Neal's balls in jar. As for my opinion on the subject, I'd rather see a heavier album with more guitar work from Neal.

Neal runs Journey. I would allocate the "power" to be about a 90/10 or, at best, 80/20.

Then why doesn't Neal use that power to put Money Whore, I mean Friga, in his place. I've noticed a lot of restraint in Neal's playing lately and Friga is probably the only one in the band who can make that happen. I'd like to see Neal shred a lot more than he does now.

Neal's been doing nothing but shredding live for a long time and he just aint that good at it. He is best when he play melodic lead lines.

[Seven Wishes2]

I still don't know why they didn't bring back Fleischman. Career killer there.

[Rockindeano]

I still don't know why they didn't bring back Fleischman. Career killer there.

I just had beer shoot through my beak. You asshole.

[Glenn]

There's a definite difference between the Rollie/Perry era Schon soloing vs the Perry/Cain era soloing... songwriting too... I thought the Perry/Rollie era songwriting had a better blend of melody & hard edge.... the addition of Cain definitely took the edge off their sound...

You make a very good point. They traded their edge for commercial success. I'm wondering if a more commercial friendly sound was a stipulation to get Cain to join the band. Or did Herbie have something to do with it?

Neither. It was all SP's fault...

Isn't everything?

In this case it is...You gonna be able to handle it ?