More Samples

[youkeepmewaiting]

As I am here, Jana, I can answer for myself, thank you.

As I explained before, broken English was meant to refer to the accent issues. And I still hear some of that in these clips and find it distracting. Simple as that. I'm not even going to respond to your other suggestions, Majestic.

At the end of the day we're all here because we're JRNY fans or otherwise we wouldn't go to such lengths discussing these matters.

Right, what exactly is your definition of broken English?

Broken English may be fragmented, incomplete, and/or marked by faulty syntax and inappropriate diction.

There is NON of that is those samples you silly little sausage

[Majestic]

As I am here, Jana, I can answer for myself, thank you.

As I explained before, broken English was meant to refer to the accent issues. And I still hear some of that in these clips and find it distracting. Simple as that. I'm not even going to respond to your other suggestions, Majestic.

At the end of the day we're all here because we're JRNY fans or otherwise we wouldn't go to such lengths discussing these matters.

Right, what exactly is your definition of broken English?

Broken English may be fragmented, incomplete, and/or marked by faulty syntax and inappropriate diction.

There is NON of that is those samples you silly little sausage

Wow, after reading that, I'm starting to think it's jrny10 with the broken English issues!

[Saint John]

I think the major problem with Arnel's diction is his outward appearance. If he were white this would probably be a non-issue. It's the fact that he's Asian that makes some, consciously or subconsciously, listen more closely for diction issues. And perhaps that's just human nature. It's not racist, nitpicking or anything else. It just is, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and standards. Some of Perry's pronunciations drove me up the fucking wall, but when I learned to just accept them as Perryisms, everything was ok. Doesn't mean I was right or wrong for doing so, and I completely understand and accept that Arnel struggles with certain words and songs. I guess my fondness for Journey's music and ability to focus on Arnel's incredible talents just allow me to do so.

[Jana]

As I am here, Jana, I can answer for myself, thank you.

As I explained before, broken English was meant to refer to the accent issues. And I still hear some of that in these clips and find it distracting. Simple as that. I'm not even going to respond to your other silly suggestions, Majestic.

At the end of the day we're all here because we're JRNY fans, or else we wouldn't go to such lengths discussing these matters.

The bottomline is also that not everyone can be 100% supportive of what JRNY's doing right now, and that viewpoint should be allowed too.

I agree with your last sentence. I was addressing only your post where you said you were distracted by Arnel's "broken English" in the samples, which I found to be an odd statement and ludicrous. You have corrected yourself and now call it "accent issues." I don't even hear accent issues, but that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

I wasn't addressing any of your other critiques on past performances.

[Majestic]

I think the major problem with Arnel's diction is his outward appearance. If he were white this would probably be a non-issue. It's the fact that he's Asian that makes some, consciously or subconsciously, listen more closely for diction issues. And perhaps that's just human nature. It's not racist, nitpicking or anything else. It just is, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and standards. Some of Perry's pronunciations drove me up the fucking wall, but when I learned to just accept them as Perryisms, everything was ok. Doesn't mean I was right or wrong for doing so, and I completely understand and accept that Arnel struggles with certain words and songs. I guess my fondness for Journey's music and ability to focus on Arnel's incredible talents just allow me to do so.

I remember once hearing a Japanese cover band singing American tunes and the lead singer was singing "fry robin fry." It was hilarious. Talk about diction issues! They played well, though, and the guy had a decent voice and everyone was having a good time. I always remember that guy when people complain about Arnel's pronunciation.

I think you nailed it right on the head, too, it's about how Arnel looks. Most prejudice arises ought of stereo-types or plain ignorance, and I guess it's as natural as being scared of the dark. I think it's better to try and rise above such tendencies, natural or not. Knowledge is better than ignorance, tolerance is better than prejudice. Plus, these new Journey songs Rawk!

[jrny10]

I can't speak for everyone, but personally it's got nothing to do with the man's looks. If he'd had Perry's, Augeri's or JSS's voices and accents I wouldn't have thought about it. I simply feel all those 3 are better fits for JRNY, with the possible exception of JSS. But otoh, JSS had better stage presence than Augeri, so it's a tie...

[jrny10]

Stage presence - we probably shouldn't even go there...

[steveo777]

I can't speak for everyone, but personally it's got nothing to do with the man's looks. If he'd had Perry's, Augeri's or JSS's voices and accents I wouldn't have thought about it. I simply feel all those 3 are better fits for JRNY, with the possible exception of JSS. But otoh, JSS had better stage presence than Augeri, so it's a tie...

Sorry, but the band is more on the radar now than with Augeri. Infact, they are having their greatest success SINCE Perry.
The number of fans buying tickets to the shows speaks for itself. But....let's get down to the real reason you came and started
posting links to old, bad examples of Arnel singing, in a thread of new material. I think you just came out to troll.

[Majestic]

I can't speak for everyone, but personally it's got nothing to do with the man's looks. If he'd had Perry's, Augeri's or JSS's voices and accents I wouldn't have thought about it. I simply feel all those 3 are better fits for JRNY, with the possible exception of JSS. But otoh, JSS had better stage presence than Augeri, so it's a tie...

Sorry, but the band is more on the radar now than with Augeri. Infact, they are having their greatest success SINCE Perry.
The number of fans buying tickets to the shows speaks for itself. But....let's get down to the real reason you came and started
posting links to old, bad examples of Arnel singing, in a thread of new material. I think you just came out to troll.

I don't know, steveo, I thought those clips were pretty good! Don't you? Now, I remember when people were out for Augeri, and some those clips were really pretty bad. I think Arnel and Journey sounded great at grasspop and most of the youtube clips seem to show it.

[Ritchie]

Nothing wrong with Klaus, in fact his German twang adds character. Don't think it does in Arnel's case though. JRNY is a very American band singing about highway runs and what not. It just sounds wrong with the "chumpagne" delivery, that's all.

Compared to the first Journey tour Pineda has improved dramatically,he is a work in progress so to speak..but don`t expect him to be what he is not.
From where he is comming I understand and accept him the way he is!

For Jrny10 to say he's distracted by Arnel's broken English in the SAMPLES tells me he just has no objectivity re Arnel imho. Even people who have been put off by Arnel's diction issues in other songs in the past or in concert in the past would hever sit down and pick apart those samples saying they're hearing Arnel singing in "broken English." He's hearing what he wants to hear, "broken English."

Arnel and Journey are sensational on those new samples and I`m highly anticipating the Eclipse album.
People who are distracted by whatever makes them distracted regarding Arnel or Journey can kiss my ass!

[steveo777]

Nothing wrong with Klaus, in fact his German twang adds character. Don't think it does in Arnel's case though. JRNY is a very American band singing about highway runs and what not. It just sounds wrong with the "chumpagne" delivery, that's all.

Compared to the first Journey tour Pineda has improved dramatically,he is a work in progress so to speak..but don`t expect him to be what he is not.
From where he is comming I understand and accept him the way he is!

For Jrny10 to say he's distracted by Arnel's broken English in the SAMPLES tells me he just has no objectivity re Arnel imho. Even people who have been put off by Arnel's diction issues in other songs in the past or in concert in the past would hever sit down and pick apart those samples saying they're hearing Arnel singing in "broken English." He's hearing what he wants to hear, "broken English."

Arnel and Journey are sensational on those new samples and I`m highly anticipating the Eclipse album.
People who are distracted by whatever makes them distracted regarding Arnel or Journey can kiss my ass!

Now, that's the spirit!

[Saint John]

Ironically, I was just blasting Escape in my SUV and noticed that Perry says "thundah" instead of thunder (Still They Ride), "clovah" instead of clover and forevah" instead of forever (SIL). Now I will happily concede that when Arnel does he is probably not doing intentionally but, really, what's the difference? People said they wanted "Arnel to make the songs his own." Well, he did so STFU.

[jrny10]

This is pretty cool. Rolie guesting with JRNY in Austin 2009. Bringing back the old JRNY sound just like that, and Deen sounding totally like Perry. Scary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9-DI5PS ... re=related

Great stuff.

[Majestic]

Ironically, I was just blasting Escape in my SUV and noticed that Perry says "thundah" instead of thunder (Still They Ride), "clovah" instead of clover and forevah" instead of forever (SIL). Now I will happily concede that when Arnel does he is probably not doing intentionally but, really, what's the difference? People said they wanted "Arnel to make the songs his own." Well, he did so STFU.

In singing, 'R' sounds awful. I remember being taught to never do this in college choir, and I'm sure some of the singers here can attest to the fact that 'R' shouldn't be sung. That's probably why Perry and Arnel don't do it, they're pros. For an example of how singing 'R' sounds bad, listen to Reo Speedwagon's "Can't fight this feeling anymore" and notice Kevin singing each and every 'R' to its fullest. I think it sounds Awful! Nice song, but my choir teacher would have boxed his ears for singing it that way.

[Michigan Girl]

exactly majestic you beat me to it and I'm not even a singer!!!
I haven't heard the new stuff, but the biggest issue I have with a p
on the old stuff is his tendency to over annunciate to compensate
for his broken english.... which usually ends up sounding worse.
I suppose sp wouldve sounded like that had he pronounced his
"r s"... I'm so glad he sang it just like he did ...so sexy!

Jny10... just tell the watchdog to fuck off!

good day... and a wink

*edit* Punctuation aside, this is a fine example of improper enunciation when doing talk to text ...

[Don]

Asians seem to inherently have an issue with the L consonant. I'm sure if we had to sing in another tongue we'd have problems too but lucky for us, Western Music rules all.

[Kingfish]

Proper Rock and Roll Enunciation translated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpjNLjBbVd4

X off the Adds to see the translation.

[Majestic]

Proper Rock and Roll Enunciation translated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpjNLjBbVd4

X off the Adds to see the translation.

Meh. The accent and broken English is much too distracting for me.

[donnaplease]

I think the major problem with Arnel's diction is his outward appearance. If he were white this would probably be a non-issue. It's the fact that he's Asian that makes some, consciously or subconsciously, listen more closely for diction issues. And perhaps that's just human nature. It's not racist, nitpicking or anything else. It just is, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and standards. Some of Perry's pronunciations drove me up the fucking wall, but when I learned to just accept them as Perryisms, everything was ok. Doesn't mean I was right or wrong for doing so, and I completely understand and accept that Arnel struggles with certain words and songs. I guess my fondness for Journey's music and ability to focus on Arnel's incredible talents just allow me to do so.

Great post Dan! But I want to add that we do this with ALL replacement singers - compare the new to the original - it's how we determine what we like. In that way, I don't think it matters what color his skin is. The fact is that Arnel has a very noticeable inability to recreate the Perryisms on some songs because of his asian accent. Others, he does pretty well. The fact that he has a very powerful voice is enough for some to overlook those inabilities, but others find it distracting and can't get past it. Obviously it's easier to accept on the new stuff because it doesn't have SP stamped all over it, and it sounds more natural to the listener. Bottom line is that Journey is now - and likely will ALWAYS be - about the dirty dozen. As long as that's the case, these comparisons will be out there. It's not (always) a knock on Arnel, it's not racist, it just is what it is - a viewpoint. And it doesn't make someone not a Journey fan because they don't like this lineup. There's a whole lot of Journey out there for us to enjoy, we don't have to embrace this album or lineup to still be a fan.

[Archetype]

Ironically, I was just blasting Escape in my SUV and noticed that Perry says "thundah" instead of thunder (Still They Ride), "clovah" instead of clover and forevah" instead of forever (SIL). Now I will happily concede that when Arnel does he is probably not doing intentionally but, really, what's the difference? People said they wanted "Arnel to make the songs his own." Well, he did so STFU.

I absolutely cannot stand the way Perry says "ampty" while singing "an empty stare" in Mother, Father

[Michigan Girl]

I think the major problem with Arnel's diction is his outward appearance. If he were white this would probably be a non-issue. It's the fact that he's Asian that makes some, consciously or subconsciously, listen more closely for diction issues. And perhaps that's just human nature. It's not racist, nitpicking or anything else. It just is, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and standards. Some of Perry's pronunciations drove me up the fucking wall, but when I learned to just accept them as Perryisms, everything was ok. Doesn't mean I was right or wrong for doing so, and I completely understand and accept that Arnel struggles with certain words and songs. I guess my fondness for Journey's music and ability to focus on Arnel's incredible talents just allow me to do so.

Great post Dan! But I want to add that we do this with ALL replacement singers - compare the new to the original - it's how we determine what we like. In that way, I don't think it matters what color his skin is. The fact is that Arnel has a very noticeable inability to recreate the Perryisms on some songs because of his asian accent. Others, he does pretty well. The fact that he has a very powerful voice is enough for some to overlook those inabilities, but others find it distracting and can't get past it. Obviously it's easier to accept on the new stuff because it doesn't have SP stamped all over it, and it sounds more natural to the listener. Bottom line is that Journey is now - and likely will ALWAYS be - about the dirty dozen. As long as that's the case, these comparisons will be out there. It's not (always) a knock on Arnel, it's not racist, it just is what it is - a viewpoint. And it doesn't make someone not a Journey fan because they don't like this lineup. There's a whole lot of Journey out there for us to enjoy, we don't have to embrace this album or lineup to still be a fan.

and great post, Donna ...agreed on all counts!!

[Michigan Girl]

Ironically, I was just blasting Escape in my SUV and noticed that Perry says "thundah" instead of thunder (Still They Ride), "clovah" instead of clover and forevah" instead of forever (SIL). Now I will happily concede that when Arnel does he is probably not doing intentionally but, really, what's the difference? People said they wanted "Arnel to make the songs his own." Well, he did so STFU.

In singing, 'R' sounds awful. I remember being taught to never do this in college choir, and I'm sure some of the singers here can attest to the fact that 'R' shouldn't be sung. That's probably why Perry and Arnel don't do it, they're pros. For an example of how singing 'R' sounds bad, listen to Reo Speedwagon's "Can't fight this feeling anymore" and notice Kevin singing each and every 'R' to its fullest. I think it sounds Awful! Nice song, but my choir teacher would have boxed his ears for singing it that way.

lol, I've always wondered about this ...it became
immediately noticeable when singing along and one has to
force the "R's", that's funny^^^try it with a group!! But, it became such
a part of the song!!

[Rick]

Ironically, I was just blasting Escape in my SUV and noticed that Perry says "thundah" instead of thunder (Still They Ride), "clovah" instead of clover and forevah" instead of forever (SIL). Now I will happily concede that when Arnel does he is probably not doing intentionally but, really, what's the difference? People said they wanted "Arnel to make the songs his own." Well, he did so STFU.

In singing, 'R' sounds awful. I remember being taught to never do this in college choir, and I'm sure some of the singers here can attest to the fact that 'R' shouldn't be sung. That's probably why Perry and Arnel don't do it, they're pros. For an example of how singing 'R' sounds bad, listen to Reo Speedwagon's "Can't fight this feeling anymore" and notice Kevin singing each and every 'R' to its fullest. I think it sounds Awful! Nice song, but my choir teacher would have boxed his ears for singing it that way.

lol, I've always wondered about this ...it became
immediately noticeable when singing along and one has to
force the "R's", that's funny^^^try it with a group!! But, it became such
a part of the song!!

Cronin had to have done that on purpose for some reason. Maybe he was thumbing his nose at his choir teacher.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Proper Rock and Roll Enunciation translated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpjNLjBbVd4

X off the Adds to see the translation.

Uhh, this was so funny it had me almost in tears. The literal captioning of what it sounds like he says was just too damn funny. I am sending it to everyone I know !

Thanks!

[kgdjpubs]

Proper Rock and Roll Enunciation translated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpjNLjBbVd4

X off the Adds to see the translation.

Uhh, this was so funny it had me almost in tears. The literal captioning of what it sounds like he says was just too damn funny. I am sending it to everyone I know !

Thanks!

well, that should be the end all be all of this debate. Pure genius.