I Gave In ...

[Melissa]

LOL, you're cracking me up.. Saying that if they did *not* want it to leak is not saying they absolutely *did* want it to

[Gideon]

LOL, you're cracking me up.. Saying that if they did *not* want it to leak is not saying they absolutely *did* want it to

It is, and I'll explain.

If the band didn't want it "leaked" before the cd comes out, then it wouldn't be out there now, no?

^ This is a conditional sentence. If the band didn't want it to be leaked [condition], then it wouldn't be out there now, no? [consequence]. Because the leak is present, the conclusion from your claim dictates that the band wanted it to be present. For if not, "then [the leak] wouldn't be out there now."

See how it works?

[Escape Artist]

I caved....

I'm sure you going to enjoy it, and show some appreciation and buy it, so don't worry! Mines coming in the mail after the 24th from Italia, but meanwhile....

I've bought EVERY Journey album and will continue to do so- even though I was one that downloaded Arrival months before it's initial release, I still bought it the day it came out. I will be buying at least 2 copies of Eclipse on the 24th. Hopefully everyone who downloaded it will do the same thing.

I was able to dowload Arrival way early too, but I still bought the U.S. and Japan version. I will buy several Elipse discs as well. This new one is one of Journey's best, bar none.

[Melissa]

Ah, over analytical, love it If it meant the whole wide world for it not to be out there before release, it wouldn't be

[Don]

The band didn't want it leaked. Pulling Youtubes, not wanting samples up, (which Amazon ignored anyway, according to Andrew). That said, it wasn't unitl after Rip and OTHERS had PURCHASED a copy at retail, when we all started our heavy duty reviews here.
If we had gone into Eclipse fever last week on this site, then we could have talked about a massive leak but up until people started buying this the other day, there where no easily found torrents, rapishare downloads or anything making this album widely distributable to the general internet capable public.
If you downloaded it, then whether or not you buy one or ten copies makes no difference. You have a product that you didn't pay for; going back to the store and paying for something that you shoplifted two days before doesn't absolve you (Anyone want to test this theory and prove me wrong?) so don't pass judgement on those who decide they don't care for it enough to purchase it later. That would still be, for all intents and purposes the pot calling the kettle black.

[Melissa]

The band didn't want it leaked. Pulling Youtubes, not wanting samples up, (which Amazon ignored anyway, according to Andrew). That said, it wasn't unitl after Rip and OTHERS had PURCHASED a copy at retail, when we all started our heavy duty reviews here.
If we had gone into Eclipse fever last week on this site, then we could have talked about a massive leak but up until people started buying this the other day, there where no easily found torrents, rapishare downloads or anything making this album widely distributable to the general internet capable public.
If you downloaded it, then whether or not you buy one or ten copies makes no difference. You have a product that you didn't pay for; going back to the store and paying for something that you shoplifted two days before doesn't absolve you (Anyone want to test this theory and prove me wrong?) so don't pass judgement on those who decide they don't care for it enough to purchase it later. That would still be, for all intents and purposes the pot calling the kettle black.

Great points.

I guess it's considered honorable to have spent the $10 first, even if it's before "release" and still shouldn't be listenable yet, and the rest are scum even if it's bought later still. I guess I'm not "supportive" enough (despite owning every single other Journey album, not to mention how many times I've paid to see them live, oh and the ticket I've also paid for a show coming up) until I spend that 10 bucks, dammit Just hope when I CAN get to one of the WM's anywhere near me, their entire stock hasn't been wiped out in one transaction and I still won't be able to redeem myself for having a listen (that was given, did not ask) early... goodness gracious, whatever will I do then?

[Rip Rokken]

This whole thread is off on some wild assumptive tangents.

Leaked = pulling a Robin Hood and uploading the product for general "looting" by the masses. A leak is as good for album sales as starting a forest fire is for sparking interest in wildlife conservation.

There is NOTHING wrong with "hearing" a product before release date. There is certainly no law against it. Hardcore fans will often do whatever it takes to be among the first in the listening experience.

There is NOTHING wrong with wanting to wait until release day, any more than it is for a moviegoer not to want spoiler info. Both can be hardcore fans - just with different preferences.

My personal take on downloading vs. buying? Preview the album if you want... yeah, technically it's not kosher to download. At least you buy the product when possible, or hopefully if you DON'T like it, you'll delete what you downloaded. Just respect the artist's property by not leaking it to the whole world for a feeding frenzy, because that does hurt sales.

I certainly don't want anyone to feel bad, or like any less a fan for not raiding Wal-Mart early or buying dozens of copies. Doing those things certainly don't make me any more of a fan. It's just something I personally enjoy doing, along with a few others, and it never fails to spark conversation, interest, etc. That's all it's about - hype.

[Melissa]

My personal take on downloading vs. buying? Preview the album if you want... yeah, technically it's not kosher to download. At least you buy the product when possible, or hopefully if you DON'T like it, you'll delete what you downloaded. Just respect the artist's property by not leaking it to the whole world for a feeding frenzy, because that does hurt sales.

I agree, esp with the bolded. I just don't agree with the attitude by some that anyone or everyone who has listened early is doing just that, and that's certainly not the case, esp for non-computer techie people like me who can barely figure itunes out let alone anything else.

[Gideon]

esp for non-computer techie people like me who can barely figure itunes out let alone anything else.

Oh please.
Your rampant porn addiction has been well documented.

[Melissa]

esp for non-computer techie people like me who can barely figure itunes out let alone anything else.

Oh please.
Your rampant porn addiction has been well documented.

Yeah ok

You really live in Kentucky? My condolences

[Saint John]

My personal take on downloading vs. buying? Preview the album if you want... yeah, technically it's not kosher to download. At least you buy the product when possible, or hopefully if you DON'T like it, you'll delete what you downloaded. Just respect the artist's property by not leaking it to the whole world for a feeding frenzy, because that does hurt sales.

I agree, esp with the bolded. I just don't agree with the attitude by some that anyone or everyone who has listened early is doing just that, and that's certainly not the case, esp for non-computer techie people like me who can barely figure itunes out let alone anything else.

Well said. My only beef is with someone that listens to it and likes it, and decides that the download will be their "album." Downloaded, listened to it and don't like it? Cool. Delete and move on.

[Don]

Rip shouldn't be getting blamed for anything here, that's ludicris. My post about him purchasing the CD was to show that stores were actually selling it when we all started reviewing it, it wasn't leaked over the net and we weren't jumping the gun or anything like that. No one here downloaded it per say. I'd call it sharing a preview from within and no one here took advantsge and posted outside of group that I know of. It didn't hit torrents until yesterday but dozens of people all over had bought it by then so of couse it that was going to happen.
My beef was more along the lines of saying that I have to purchase it now that I have previewed it, that's just ridiculous. It would be a nice thing to do of course and pretty shitty if we didn't do that but kept the album on our hard drive anyway, but whether I buy it or not, me and the other people who previewed it are on the same footing as those that will make a purchase later in that we all acquired something that wasn't really suppposed to be taken. Even if someone buys 10 copies later he can't cast total judgement on others who don't decide to buy it, especially as he commited the same offense that they did to preview it.

Rip paid cash for his purchase from the store. He shouldn't even be in this conversation.

[Melissa]

My personal take on downloading vs. buying? Preview the album if you want... yeah, technically it's not kosher to download. At least you buy the product when possible, or hopefully if you DON'T like it, you'll delete what you downloaded. Just respect the artist's property by not leaking it to the whole world for a feeding frenzy, because that does hurt sales.

I agree, esp with the bolded. I just don't agree with the attitude by some that anyone or everyone who has listened early is doing just that, and that's certainly not the case, esp for non-computer techie people like me who can barely figure itunes out let alone anything else.

Well said. My only beef is with someone that listens to it and likes it, and decides that the download will be their "album." Downloaded, listened to it and don't like it? Cool. Delete and move on.

Exactly. I'm about as good with computer stuff as you

[Melissa]

Oh and no one was blaming anyone for anything, I made a joke about wiping out a store's stock because I didn't even know some stores allow that anymore. There is no WM in the city I live in so it's not a store I frequent simply because of location. I have seen signs in both Target and Best Buy that limit the amount of a new release one person can buy, and I just have assumed it's to try to stop people from ebay-ing them, etc. I had no clue WM allowed that.

[Rip Rokken]

Oh and no one was blaming anyone for anything, I made a joke about wiping out a store's stock because I didn't even know some stores allow that anymore. There is no WM in the city I live in so it's not a store I frequent simply because of location. I have seen signs in both Target and Best Buy that limit the amount of a new release one person can buy, and I just have assumed it's to try to stop people from ebay-ing them, etc. I had no clue WM allowed that.

Most of the quantity limits I see in stores are for highly advertised specials (to ensure many people can get them). But I'm the type that if they tried to limit my quantity on anything, I'd take my 2 units out to the car, then come straight back in and buy two more (probably going thru the same line, lol). Repeat, repeat, until full deplete.

[Melissa]

(probably going thru the same line, lol).

That would be funny, since the super WM's I've been in have like 57 lanes

But yeah, 2 is the limit I've seen on the signs at Target and BB, even on DVD's.

[Saint John]

Rip shouldn't be getting blamed for anything here, that's ludicris. My post about him purchasing the CD was to show that stores were actually selling it when we all started reviewing it, it wasn't leaked over the net and we weren't jumping the gun or anything like that. No one here downloaded it per say. I'd call it sharing a preview from within and no one here took advantsge and posted outside of group that I know of. It didn't hit torrents until yesterday but dozens of people all over had bought it by then so of couse it that was going to happen.
My beef was more along the lines of saying that I have to purchase it now that I have previewed it, that's just ridiculous. It would be a nice thing to do of course and pretty shitty if we didn't do that but kept the album on our hard drive anyway, but whether I buy it or not, me and the other people who previewed it are on the same footing as those that will make a purchase later in that we all acquired something that wasn't really suppposed to be taken. Even if someone buys 10 copies later he can't cast total judgement on others who don't decide to buy it, especially as he commited the same offense that they did to preview it.

Rip paid cash for his purchase from the store. He shouldn't even be in this conversation.

Excellent post. And anyone that questions "Rip Manila South America Rokken's" fandom would be nuts! But I didn't see where anyone did. Hey, the guy had the CD about 4 days before it leaked, so I think it's safe to say that he wasn't a leak source. I know I was sent the download from someone else and appreciated it. But I think, like Don said earlier, everyone here deserves to give themselves a round of applause. The sharing here was kept in house and done responsibly. The rest was pure promotion and all of the "OMG" reviews probably sparked sales a bit. This site remains the foremost on the net, even if traffic has declined a lot. It's all relative and this is still the summit of rock music sites, all things consiered.


PS Fuck you, Everett!

[steveo777]

I think pretty much everyone here got hooked up, unless you were Everett or Parfait.
Good on the peeps for not uploading to the torrent sites.

[Rip Rokken]

(probably going thru the same line, lol).

That would be funny, since the super WM's I've been in have like 57 lanes

But yeah, 2 is the limit I've seen on the signs at Target and BB, even on DVD's.

I need to keep my skillz honed - I think I'll raid a Target tomorrow and test their resolve.

Does that limit apply to Prince's Lotu5Fl0w3r? Best $5 I've ever spent, several times over.

[Don]

And let that be it.

[Gideon]

My personal take on downloading vs. buying? Preview the album if you want... yeah, technically it's not kosher to download. At least you buy the product when possible, or hopefully if you DON'T like it, you'll delete what you downloaded. Just respect the artist's property by not leaking it to the whole world for a feeding frenzy, because that does hurt sales.

I agree, esp with the bolded. I just don't agree with the attitude by some that anyone or everyone who has listened early is doing just that, and that's certainly not the case, esp for non-computer techie people like me who can barely figure itunes out let alone anything else.

Well said. My only beef is with someone that listens to it and likes it, and decides that the download will be their "album." Downloaded, listened to it and don't like it? Cool. Delete and move on.

Exactly. I'm about as good with computer stuff as you

We established this with the porn addiction.

[Glenn]

There is no way in hell you dont have iTunes when you have an iPhone, Dan !


Fuck Everett

The Tom Tom app is the only thing I have ever purchased from Apple, aside from my iPhone4.

Dan, quick question...how do you do the phone updates without Itunes installed?

I was not even aware there are phone updates! Here's a quick rundown: I bought a Verizon iPhone4 in March and the only thing I have done to it is purchase the Tom Tom navigation app. I only use the phone to talk, text, check e-mail and surf here a bit. Am I missing something?

Dude...Is there and Apple store near you ?

[Melissa]

My personal take on downloading vs. buying? Preview the album if you want... yeah, technically it's not kosher to download. At least you buy the product when possible, or hopefully if you DON'T like it, you'll delete what you downloaded. Just respect the artist's property by not leaking it to the whole world for a feeding frenzy, because that does hurt sales.

I agree, esp with the bolded. I just don't agree with the attitude by some that anyone or everyone who has listened early is doing just that, and that's certainly not the case, esp for non-computer techie people like me who can barely figure itunes out let alone anything else.

Well said. My only beef is with someone that listens to it and likes it, and decides that the download will be their "album." Downloaded, listened to it and don't like it? Cool. Delete and move on.

Exactly. I'm about as good with computer stuff as you

We established this with the porn addiction.

Yeah, yeah Wait, mine or his?

Anyhow, when it comes out, if I can find it, lol, I'm getting two, one for a co-worker who is a Journey fan and never buys herself anything with her son in college right now. She's from the PI and loves Arnel's voice, she'll love the album.

[Glenn]

My personal take on downloading vs. buying? Preview the album if you want... yeah, technically it's not kosher to download. At least you buy the product when possible, or hopefully if you DON'T like it, you'll delete what you downloaded. Just respect the artist's property by not leaking it to the whole world for a feeding frenzy, because that does hurt sales.

I agree, esp with the bolded. I just don't agree with the attitude by some that anyone or everyone who has listened early is doing just that, and that's certainly not the case, esp for non-computer techie people like me who can barely figure itunes out let alone anything else.

Well said. My only beef is with someone that listens to it and likes it, and decides that the download will be their "album." Downloaded, listened to it and don't like it? Cool. Delete and move on.

Exactly. I'm about as good with computer stuff as you

We established this with the porn addiction. : lol:

Yeah, yeah Wait, mine or his?

Anyhow, when it comes out, if I can find it, lol, I'm getting two, one for a co-worker who is a Journey fan and never buys herself anything with her son in college right now. She's from the PI and loves Arnel's voice, she'll love the album.

Awesome...

My friend's son works at the Texas Rangers ballpark selling hot dogs this summer...So he gets free tickets...Anyway, Myself, my GF, My friend, and a recently hired business partner from PI that's been here 2 weeks...He's getting a copy from my friend.

[Melissa]

Anyhow, when it comes out, if I can find it, lol, I'm getting two, one for a co-worker who is a Journey fan and never buys herself anything with her son in college right now. She's from the PI and loves Arnel's voice, she'll love the album.

Awesome...

My friend's son works at the Texas Rangers ballpark selling hot dogs this summer...So he gets free tickets...Anyway, Myself, my GF, My friend, and a recently hired business partner from PI that's been here 2 weeks...He's getting a copy from my friend.

That's cool. Yeah I gave her both Rev and the Manila DVD too together as gifts. I know she'll be thrilled with the new album.

[Rick]

My personal take on downloading vs. buying? Preview the album if you want... yeah, technically it's not kosher to download. At least you buy the product when possible, or hopefully if you DON'T like it, you'll delete what you downloaded. Just respect the artist's property by not leaking it to the whole world for a feeding frenzy, because that does hurt sales.

I agree, esp with the bolded. I just don't agree with the attitude by some that anyone or everyone who has listened early is doing just that, and that's certainly not the case, esp for non-computer techie people like me who can barely figure itunes out let alone anything else.

Well said. My only beef is with someone that listens to it and likes it, and decides that the download will be their "album." Downloaded, listened to it and don't like it? Cool. Delete and move on.

Exactly. I'm about as good with computer stuff as you

We established this with the porn addiction. : lol:

Yeah, yeah Wait, mine or his?

Anyhow, when it comes out, if I can find it, lol, I'm getting two, one for a co-worker who is a Journey fan and never buys herself anything with her son in college right now. She's from the PI and loves Arnel's voice, she'll love the album.

Awesome...

My friend's son works at the Texas Rangers ballpark selling hot dogs this summer...So he gets free tickets...Anyway, Myself, my GF, My friend, and a recently hired business partner from PI that's been here 2 weeks...He's getting a copy from my friend.

Where are you in this area? I live near 183 and Murphy.

[Glenn]

My personal take on downloading vs. buying? Preview the album if you want... yeah, technically it's not kosher to download. At least you buy the product when possible, or hopefully if you DON'T like it, you'll delete what you downloaded. Just respect the artist's property by not leaking it to the whole world for a feeding frenzy, because that does hurt sales.

I agree, esp with the bolded. I just don't agree with the attitude by some that anyone or everyone who has listened early is doing just that, and that's certainly not the case, esp for non-computer techie people like me who can barely figure itunes out let alone anything else.

Well said. My only beef is with someone that listens to it and likes it, and decides that the download will be their "album." Downloaded, listened to it and don't like it? Cool. Delete and move on.

Exactly. I'm about as good with computer stuff as you

We established this with the porn addiction. : lol:

Yeah, yeah Wait, mine or his?

Anyhow, when it comes out, if I can find it, lol, I'm getting two, one for a co-worker who is a Journey fan and never buys herself anything with her son in college right now. She's from the PI and loves Arnel's voice, she'll love the album.

Awesome...

My friend's son works at the Texas Rangers ballpark selling hot dogs this summer...So he gets free tickets...Anyway, Myself, my GF, My friend, and a recently hired business partner from PI that's been here 2 weeks...He's getting a copy from my friend.

Where are you in this area? I live near 183 and Murphy.

Grapevine where 121/114 meet...Going to me moving to Keller in August.

I used to live in Euless back when I met you at the Journey/Heart show.

[Rip Rokken]

Grapevine where 121/114 meet...Going to me moving to Keller in August.

I've been down there quite a bit this year, and the Glass Cactus is a frequent destination. I'll look you up next time!