Apologies to some friends here

[steveo777]

Steve, you don't like Eclipse? or is this sarcasm? Or what. I've been out of town again the last few days , so I'm not privy to any recent board jokes

This thread was pretty much posted in sarcasm, as you suspected. I love the album, but not happy about the way it was marketed.

[WykkedSensation]

People are saying this is Journeys last hoorah or whatever.... are you mad? This album shows that this band has more life in it than it has done for years! Schon is more passionate than Journey than (my guess) he has been since the 1970s.

And Kudos to Cain he let Schon have the direction but brought some amazing moments to the album and most probably structured what Schon was unable to do.

Lots more Journey to come.

No not mad at all. People who are mad are the ones who seriously believe that this band will be making albums for years to come. That is absolutely crazy thinking.
This album is dropping like a brick, as it was always going to. Don't you realise that apart from the few on here that Journey fans don't want this kinda release. The casual Journey fan wants the Journey sound and this aint it. Doesn't matter what YOU or anyone else on a website chat board think, the sales for this release will tell the story. This band are coming to an end (album wise). Who is gonna pump a lot of money into Journey making another studio album? Walmart again? Errr don't think so.
Some fans were always gonna like Eclipse with its rockier edge, but most were never gonna like it.
If you like the thing then so be it, fair play and all that shit. I am not keen myself. I have given it a lot of time and 2 weeks after i first heard it, it has already taken a back seat. It's just not memorable enough, none of it. Will it be talked about in years to come in the same breath as Escape, Frontiers, Infinity etc? Not a fookin chance.

Journey could very well go on for a few years touring as that is where the money is, but as far as making studio albums in the future, i seriously doubt it.

[YoungJRNY]

People are saying this is Journeys last hoorah or whatever.... are you mad? This album shows that this band has more life in it than it has done for years! Schon is more passionate than Journey than (my guess) he has been since the 1970s.

And Kudos to Cain he let Schon have the direction but brought some amazing moments to the album and most probably structured what Schon was unable to do.

Lots more Journey to come.

No not mad at all. People who are mad are the ones who seriously believe that this band will be making albums for years to come. That is absolutely crazy thinking.
This album is dropping like a brick, as it was always going to. Don't you realise that apart from the few on here that Journey fans don't want this kinda release. The casual Journey fan wants the Journey sound and this aint it. Doesn't matter what YOU or anyone else on a website chat board think, the sales for this release will tell the story. This band are coming to an end (album wise). Who is gonna pump a lot of money into Journey making another studio album? Walmart again? Errr don't think so.
Some fans were always gonna like Eclipse with its rockier edge, but most were never gonna like it.
If you like the thing then so be it, fair play and all that shit. I am not keen myself. I have given it a lot of time and 2 weeks after i first heard it, it has already taken a back seat. It's just not memorable enough, none of it. Will it be talked about in years to come in the same breath as Escape, Frontiers, Infinity etc? Not a fookin chance.

Journey could very well go on for a few years touring as that is where the money is, but as far as making studio albums in the future, i seriously doubt it.

I can see 2 more albums out of Arnel and company. They got a lineup that can take advantage on where they want to go as a band and they've found a lead singer who can belt them out beyond their thought process and Eclipse has proven that the band can have fun with a few more albums before going straight tour or in other words "where the money's at." Judging by how Neal is stubborn and how bad the dude wants to play + after all that fiasco searching for a lead singer, why stop now when they found one who can sing into the next decade?

[Rip Rokken]

Steve, you don't like Eclipse? or is this sarcasm? Or what. I've been out of town again the last few days , so I'm not privy to any recent board jokes

This thread was pretty much posted in sarcasm, as you suspected. I love the album, but not happy about the way it was marketed.

LOL, I thought you were serious! But I was going to say, I like ya anyway.

[WykkedSensation]

People are saying this is Journeys last hoorah or whatever.... are you mad? This album shows that this band has more life in it than it has done for years! Schon is more passionate than Journey than (my guess) he has been since the 1970s.

And Kudos to Cain he let Schon have the direction but brought some amazing moments to the album and most probably structured what Schon was unable to do.

Lots more Journey to come.

No not mad at all. People who are mad are the ones who seriously believe that this band will be making albums for years to come. That is absolutely crazy thinking.
This album is dropping like a brick, as it was always going to. Don't you realise that apart from the few on here that Journey fans don't want this kinda release. The casual Journey fan wants the Journey sound and this aint it. Doesn't matter what YOU or anyone else on a website chat board think, the sales for this release will tell the story. This band are coming to an end (album wise). Who is gonna pump a lot of money into Journey making another studio album? Walmart again? Errr don't think so.
Some fans were always gonna like Eclipse with its rockier edge, but most were never gonna like it.
If you like the thing then so be it, fair play and all that shit. I am not keen myself. I have given it a lot of time and 2 weeks after i first heard it, it has already taken a back seat. It's just not memorable enough, none of it. Will it be talked about in years to come in the same breath as Escape, Frontiers, Infinity etc? Not a fookin chance.

Journey could very well go on for a few years touring as that is where the money is, but as far as making studio albums in the future, i seriously doubt it.

I can see 2 more albums out of Arnel and company. They got a lineup that can take advantage on where they want to go as a band and they've found a lead singer who can belt them out beyond their thought process and Eclipse has proven that the band can have fun with a few more albums before going straight tour or in other words "where the money's at." Judging by how Neal is stubborn and how bad the dude wants to play + after all that fiasco searching for a lead singer, why stop now when they found one who can sing into the next decade?

How can any band 'take advantage on where they want to go as a band and they've found a lead singer who can belt them out beyond their thought process' when THE FAN BASE do NOT buy their records anymore, let alone the casual fan?
Where is the money coming from to fund more studio albums?
I agree that Neal just wants to play, they probably all do and they will quite possibly get that opportunity in a live setting for a few years. However, i really do not see another studio release. Live album, maybe.

[YoungJRNY]

People are saying this is Journeys last hoorah or whatever.... are you mad? This album shows that this band has more life in it than it has done for years! Schon is more passionate than Journey than (my guess) he has been since the 1970s.

And Kudos to Cain he let Schon have the direction but brought some amazing moments to the album and most probably structured what Schon was unable to do.

Lots more Journey to come.

No not mad at all. People who are mad are the ones who seriously believe that this band will be making albums for years to come. That is absolutely crazy thinking.
This album is dropping like a brick, as it was always going to. Don't you realise that apart from the few on here that Journey fans don't want this kinda release. The casual Journey fan wants the Journey sound and this aint it. Doesn't matter what YOU or anyone else on a website chat board think, the sales for this release will tell the story. This band are coming to an end (album wise). Who is gonna pump a lot of money into Journey making another studio album? Walmart again? Errr don't think so.
Some fans were always gonna like Eclipse with its rockier edge, but most were never gonna like it.
If you like the thing then so be it, fair play and all that shit. I am not keen myself. I have given it a lot of time and 2 weeks after i first heard it, it has already taken a back seat. It's just not memorable enough, none of it. Will it be talked about in years to come in the same breath as Escape, Frontiers, Infinity etc? Not a fookin chance.

Journey could very well go on for a few years touring as that is where the money is, but as far as making studio albums in the future, i seriously doubt it.

I can see 2 more albums out of Arnel and company. They got a lineup that can take advantage on where they want to go as a band and they've found a lead singer who can belt them out beyond their thought process and Eclipse has proven that the band can have fun with a few more albums before going straight tour or in other words "where the money's at." Judging by how Neal is stubborn and how bad the dude wants to play + after all that fiasco searching for a lead singer, why stop now when they found one who can sing into the next decade?

How can any band 'take advantage on where they want to go as a band and they've found a lead singer who can belt them out beyond their thought process' when THE FAN BASE do NOT buy their records anymore, let alone the casual fan?
Where is the money coming from to fund more studio albums?
I agree that Neal just wants to play, they probably all do and they will quite possibly get that opportunity in a live setting for a few years. However, i really do not see another studio release. Live album, maybe.

Journey obviously understands their stance with airplay and units sold. They know it isn't the 1980's any longer and that genre of rock-bands are taking a back-seat. Their marketing for Eclipse was obviously lack-luster. I don't necc buy that "noone buys their CD's anymore" when singles such as DSB and the Greatest Hits albums are still soaring. Revelation had a numerous amount of marketing and the band worked beautifully of getting that CD to be pushed off the shelves and the results showed.

Over the past year or two, the band layed low out of the public spot-light before busting out Eclipse (something that was WANTED from the hardcore fanbase. To spend time on a kicking-album) and then proceeded to never market the album that is Eclipse. Of course the average fan and casual fan isn't going to buy the album when they aren't even aware such things exist. Once the tour starts going, Eclipse will sell progressively better. You must understand that music is these guy's livelihoods. This is their living.

The musicianship in them and their non-stop approach to new music is what separates Journey from most bands who just squirm and squander. Neal understood their stance with this record and made the CD he wanted to make. That pretty much tells you that creating new music keeps the band fresh no matter what sells what or what gets airplay.

Being a young fan that is absolutely disgusted from today's horseshit they call music, It puts a smile on my face to see Neal and co. to still have that competitive spirit into making a new album that reeks of creativity that makes the juices flowing.

[Jana]

People are saying this is Journeys last hoorah or whatever.... are you mad? This album shows that this band has more life in it than it has done for years! Schon is more passionate than Journey than (my guess) he has been since the 1970s.

And Kudos to Cain he let Schon have the direction but brought some amazing moments to the album and most probably structured what Schon was unable to do.

Lots more Journey to come.

No not mad at all. People who are mad are the ones who seriously believe that this band will be making albums for years to come. That is absolutely crazy thinking.
This album is dropping like a brick, as it was always going to. Don't you realise that apart from the few on here that Journey fans don't want this kinda release. The casual Journey fan wants the Journey sound and this aint it. Doesn't matter what YOU or anyone else on a website chat board think, the sales for this release will tell the story. This band are coming to an end (album wise). Who is gonna pump a lot of money into Journey making another studio album? Walmart again? Errr don't think so.
Some fans were always gonna like Eclipse with its rockier edge, but most were never gonna like it.
If you like the thing then so be it, fair play and all that shit. I am not keen myself. I have given it a lot of time and 2 weeks after i first heard it, it has already taken a back seat. It's just not memorable enough, none of it. Will it be talked about in years to come in the same breath as Escape, Frontiers, Infinity etc? Not a fookin chance.

Journey could very well go on for a few years touring as that is where the money is, but as far as making studio albums in the future, i seriously doubt it.

Re my bolded part, you do understand no one knows about the album except mostly the ones on the internet who follow AOR music and hardcore fans who were always going to buy it, even if just to see. So to me it's not dropping like "a ton of bricks" in first week sales because of a change of sound on many of the songs, like you say IDT. Maybe that would be the case if it had radioplay in America or there was a lot of promotion on TV and such for the casual Journey fan to even hear and decide if they don't like the new sound. So I don't think it affects first weeks sales, but it definitely could and most likely will on later sales after touring and hearing the music or promotional appearances as far as casual Journey fans.

In my opinion, it's not selling as well initially, as far as first week sales, basically because of zero promotion due to, I think, overconfidence coming off their last album success and Manila DVD as one of the reasons, thinking it would carry over with minimal effort in promoting. And, secondly, I have always said in this day and age for this band they needed it to be a two-disk package, maybe a live album from earlier in the year in Las Vegas or South America or from Manila, a lot of the Revelation songs which sounded fantastic live.

I agree re I only see, at most, one more album, and that may be live with a few new songs on it or some package deal.

[WykkedSensation]

I agree that there has been zero promotion for Eclipse, but i honestly believe that the bulk of Journey fans will NOT like this release. Doesn't matter whether the likes of Mr McNeice shits his pants over the thing and gives it a completely over the top review, or a few people on a message board do pretty much the same as if it's THE greatest thing since sliced bread. This album does NOT cut the mustard with the fans.
Revelation sold 'mostly' what it did due to the Arnel and Youtube thing. Then it sold due to the fact of it being a 2 or 3 disc package and of course, value for money. Then it sold a little due to the fact that although a rather clumsy effort (production wise) it still had some fine songs, and was Journey sounding with big ballads, big hooks, and big harmonies, the Journey way of years gone by. Eclipse on the other hand has NONE of the above, which is a pity as i believe if it hadn't been so much of a Schon egotrip fretfest with more time being spent on actually making the chorus's sound better than they do, and of course promoting the damned thing, then it could have worked. The tour will no doubt help sales, but it will always flag well behind EVERY other Journey release because of one main factor, IT AINT GOOD OR MEMORABLE ENOUGH.

[donnaplease]

I haven't listened to the songs, so I'm basing my opinion on what I'm reading here from all you guys. But I'm wondering if the luster of the "story" of Arnel and his hiring didn't have a lot to do with the success (relatively speaking) of the last effort, and as that's worn off there are many people out there that either don't know about the new CD, or simply don't care. Curiosity about the new guy and the packaging of Revelation (which included remakes of many of the fan faves from the heyday of the band) - not to mention the low price - likely led to people picking it up at their local Wally World. I think it was Gideon that said this new CD is hard to find in the local WalMarts, and the last time I perused through the "J" section at my local store the only thing there was Essential Journey. IDK if they have the new one or not.

I also think (again, based on what I've read here) that it's possible that the merits of the record are what are getting criticism this go 'round. I have seen very little of commenting on Arnel's diction, which was a huge criticism with Revelation. It also led to some really nasty comments in defense of Arnel, ie calling people racist because they pointed it out. It seems now it's the songs themselves that people are picking apart. That says to me that there may be some credibility to the "naysayers". I personally think the time is past for them to embark on this new path, and in the end it may wind up causing them to lose fans who would buy the follow up to Revelation, or... if they did, from buying the next release because this one is so far removed from what we're used to.

Hope everyone has had a happy and SAFE Memorial Day! God Bless our Troops and God Bless America!!!

[steveo777]

I haven't listened to the songs, so I'm basing my opinion on what I'm reading here from all you guys. But I'm wondering if the luster of the "story" of Arnel and his hiring didn't have a lot to do with the success (relatively speaking) of the last effort, and as that's worn off there are many people out there that either don't know about the new CD, or simply don't care. Curiosity about the new guy and the packaging of Revelation (which included remakes of many of the fan faves from the heyday of the band) - not to mention the low price - likely led to people picking it up at their local Wally World. I think it was Gideon that said this new CD is hard to find in the local WalMarts, and the last time I perused through the "J" section at my local store the only thing there was Essential Journey. IDK if they have the new one or not.

I also think (again, based on what I've read here) that it's possible that the merits of the record are what are getting criticism this go 'round. I have seen very little of commenting on Arnel's diction, which was a huge criticism with Revelation. It also led to some really nasty comments in defense of Arnel, ie calling people racist because they pointed it out. It seems now it's the songs themselves that people are picking apart. That says to me that there may be some credibility to the "naysayers". I personally think the time is past for them to embark on this new path, and in the end it may wind up causing them to lose fans who would buy the follow up to Revelation, or... if they did, from buying the next release because this one is so far removed from what we're used to.

Hope everyone has had a happy and SAFE Memorial Day! God Bless our Troops and God Bless America!!!

Seriously...none? Why?
Solid post, BTW. No matter what the opinions on the album, I'm glad we are past Arnel's nationality, diction and all that crap.

[donnaplease]

Seriously...none? Why?
Solid post, BTW. No matter what the opinions on the album, I'm glad we are past Arnel's nationality, diction and all that crap.

I'm just not interested in the new vision, new version, etc. I don't begrudge anyone who likes it (well, except St. John ), but it's just not for me. I'm content living in my own little reminiscent world, singing the DD along with my greatest hits live CD. All the bickering (and being called a racist in the past) has soured it for me. I'd be willing to concede that I would probably enjoy a live show somewhat, simply because I loves me some Ross Valory and Deeno, but I think being here has been a blessing and a curse. The events that happened a few years ago gave me a really bad taste in my mouth for the present, so I'm content to live in the past. I still enjoy reading (and sometimes responding to) the opinions here.

Thanks, BTW.

[Michigan Girl]

Steve, you don't like Eclipse? or is this sarcasm? Or what. I've been out of town again the last few days , so I'm not privy to any recent board jokes

Hello?!? I do not understand this either ...he is all over the place with his emotions
concerning this release ...must've been some weekend?!

[steveo777]

Steve, you don't like Eclipse? or is this sarcasm? Or what. I've been out of town again the last few days , so I'm not privy to any recent board jokes

Hello?!? I do not understand this either ...he is all over the place with his emotions
concerning this release ...must've been some weekend?!

My emotions? Actually, it has been some weekend.

[Gideon]

I have seen very little of commenting on Arnel's diction, which was a huge criticism with Revelation.

The diction was nigh-flawless on Revelation. It's actually worse here, IMHO.

[Majestic]

Seriously...none? Why?
Solid post, BTW. No matter what the opinions on the album, I'm glad we are past Arnel's nationality, diction and all that crap.

I'm just not interested in the new vision, new version, etc. I don't begrudge anyone who likes it (well, except St. John ), but it's just not for me. I'm content living in my own little reminiscent world, singing the DD along with my greatest hits live CD.

You listen to the greatest hits live CD? Now that is a release not fit for listening to even for a die hard. You must be mad!

[steveo777]

Seriously...none? Why?
Solid post, BTW. No matter what the opinions on the album, I'm glad we are past Arnel's nationality, diction and all that crap.

I'm just not interested in the new vision, new version, etc. I don't begrudge anyone who likes it (well, except St. John ), but it's just not for me. I'm content living in my own little reminiscent world, singing the DD along with my greatest hits live CD.

You listen to the greatest hits live CD? Now that is a release not fit for listening to even for a die hard. You must be mad!

I found that CD today in my not listened to in a long time box. The sound quality is attrocious.

[Majestic]

Seriously...none? Why?
Solid post, BTW. No matter what the opinions on the album, I'm glad we are past Arnel's nationality, diction and all that crap.

I'm just not interested in the new vision, new version, etc. I don't begrudge anyone who likes it (well, except St. John ), but it's just not for me. I'm content living in my own little reminiscent world, singing the DD along with my greatest hits live CD.

You listen to the greatest hits live CD? Now that is a release not fit for listening to even for a die hard. You must be mad!

I found that CD today in my not listened to in a long time box. The sound quality is attrocious.

That CD can be entered as evidence that Perry wanted to sabotage Journey. Now "Captured" is a live one that rocks.

[steveo777]

Seriously...none? Why?
Solid post, BTW. No matter what the opinions on the album, I'm glad we are past Arnel's nationality, diction and all that crap.

I'm just not interested in the new vision, new version, etc. I don't begrudge anyone who likes it (well, except St. John ), but it's just not for me. I'm content living in my own little reminiscent world, singing the DD along with my greatest hits live CD.

You listen to the greatest hits live CD? Now that is a release not fit for listening to even for a die hard. You must be mad!

I found that CD today in my not listened to in a long time box. The sound quality is attrocious.

That CD can be entered as evidence that Perry wanted to sabotage Journey. Now "Captured" is a live one that rocks.

The YouTube recordings of the Live in Manila DVD someone made for me to play in my car sounded better than GH Live!

[S2M]

The Manila DVD is garbage....that DVD was only a nod to the Philipines. nothing more. If Klaus Meine had been the singer it would have been Berlin DVD....

[steveo777]

The Manila DVD is garbage....that DVD was only a nod to the Philipines. nothing more. If Klaus Meine had been the singer it would have been Berlin DVD....

Definitely one of Journey's many missed opportunities. Poor production or mastering. Maybe they should give it to Kalmusky and have him fix it.

[S2M]

The Manila DVD is garbage....that DVD was only a nod to the Philipines. nothing more. If Klaus Meine had been the singer it would have been Berlin DVD....

Definitely one of Journey's many missed opportunities. Poor production or mastering. Maybe they should give it to Kalmusky and have him fix it.

From now on I'd like to be refered to as Copernicus.....

[steveo777]

The Manila DVD is garbage....that DVD was only a nod to the Philipines. nothing more. If Klaus Meine had been the singer it would have been Berlin DVD....

Definitely one of Journey's many missed opportunities. Poor production or mastering. Maybe they should give it to Kalmusky and have him fix it.

From now on I'd like to be refered to as Copernicus.....

SFB will work for now.

[youkeepmewaiting]

People who won't even listen to the songs... sad

[Arkansas]

No matter what the opinions on the album, I'm glad we are past Arnel's nationality, diction and all that crap.

But perhaps that the record-buying public is not. Maybe those that bought Revelation were generally turned-off by AP, and they simply don't want to buy the current Journey.


later~

[SF-Dano]

I still don't get how people cannot hear JOURNEY is this album!?

because they won't allow themselves.

I played the CD this weekend on a short road trip with a friend who hasn't listened to Journey probably since the late 80s or early 90s. By the middle of EOTM he turns and asks me " Is this Journey?". So there was enough of the "Journey Sound" there for him to recognize.

Was this release something that was going to sell huge. I never thought so. As a fan, I am happy to have something a little different and a little harder from the band.

[Scarab Pilot]

Can we ask one thing of the next album...please retire the phrase "State of Grace"...not sure which one of them is locked on that phrase but its popped up in the lyrics of the last four albums. Come on...get a thesaurus!