Hindsight

[Majestic]

I really was surprised by the lack of media behind the album. An album, no matter how great, won't sell well without being properly advertised to the public (unless the rare circumstance of word of mouth boosts sales in the long run). In fact, I had to tell just about anyone I came across that mentioned Journey that the band was coming out with a new album.

I seriously wonder if it's time for the band to get a new manager, or perhaps get Herbie back on board.

What they need is to beg SP to do a reunion/farewell tour, while simultaneously releasing all Tours on DVD, as well as emptying the vault.

They're not emptying any vaults unless Sony is their label. I also don't see Perry doing anything under Nomota.

And, if Eclipse is what Neal really wants then he should either change the band name or start a new one. Because what difference does it REALLY matter any longer? This album could have been released as Planet US and it probably wouldn't hurt sales that much.

The past five years of BS decisions have really fucked up this band.

The should have changed the band name for Infinity too. I mean, who in their right mind thought THAT sounded anything like Journey.

[koberry]

I really was surprised by the lack of media behind the album. An album, no matter how great, won't sell well without being properly advertised to the public (unless the rare circumstance of word of mouth boosts sales in the long run). In fact, I had to tell just about anyone I came across that mentioned Journey that the band was coming out with a new album.

I seriously wonder if it's time for the band to get a new manager, or perhaps get Herbie back on board.

What they need is to beg SP to do a reunion/farewell tour, while simultaneously releasing all Tours on DVD, as well as emptying the vault.

And buy unicorns for all the world's children!

[koberry]

I really was surprised by the lack of media behind the album. An album, no matter how great, won't sell well without being properly advertised to the public (unless the rare circumstance of word of mouth boosts sales in the long run). In fact, I had to tell just about anyone I came across that mentioned Journey that the band was coming out with a new album.

I seriously wonder if it's time for the band to get a new manager, or perhaps get Herbie back on board.

What they need is to beg SP to do a reunion/farewell tour, while simultaneously releasing all Tours on DVD, as well as emptying the vault.

They're not emptying any vaults unless Sony is their label. I also don't see Perry doing anything under Nomota.

And, if Eclipse is what Neal really wants then he should either change the band name or start a new one. Because what difference does it REALLY matter any longer? This album could have been released as Planet US and it probably wouldn't hurt sales that much.

The past five years of BS decisions have really fucked up this band.

The should have changed the band name for Infinity too. I mean, who in their right mind thought THAT sounded anything like Journey.

you hit the ball out of the park on that one. Sheesh, can't it all be good? I love every era - it's all Journey to me.

What what's the crap about a final performance/tour w/ Perry and no more music as the awesome-est way to go out? All those years without music from my favorite band sucked. I say, as long as they can keep it going, whether thru releasing new music or touring, let's hope it lasts as long as possible.

[YoungJRNY]

I really was surprised by the lack of media behind the album. An album, no matter how great, won't sell well without being properly advertised to the public (unless the rare circumstance of word of mouth boosts sales in the long run). In fact, I had to tell just about anyone I came across that mentioned Journey that the band was coming out with a new album.

I seriously wonder if it's time for the band to get a new manager, or perhaps get Herbie back on board.

What they need is to beg SP to do a reunion/farewell tour, while simultaneously releasing all Tours on DVD, as well as emptying the vault.

They're not emptying any vaults unless Sony is their label. I also don't see Perry doing anything under Nomota.

And, if Eclipse is what Neal really wants then he should either change the band name or start a new one. Because what difference does it REALLY matter any longer? This album could have been released as Planet US and it probably wouldn't hurt sales that much.

The past five years of BS decisions have really fucked up this band.

The should have changed the band name for Infinity too. I mean, who in their right mind thought THAT sounded anything like Journey.

you hit the ball out of the park on that one. Sheesh, can't it all be good? I love every era - it's all Journey to me.

What what's the crap about a final performance/tour w/ Perry and no more music as the awesome-est way to go out? All those years without music from my favorite band sucked. I say, as long as they can keep it going, whether thru releasing new music or touring, let's hope it lasts as long as possible.

It seemed during the middle-half of the Augeri years that this band was dead-flat in the water with nowhere to go. Now they catch heat, catch fire and have one amazing lineup with 2 solid-rocking CD's and people are claiming them dead. I see a lot of Loons around here that act like hardcore religious people waiting for Jesus to return to Earth or that old-hag rapture dude that had a cult following with the world ending. No different than the ludicrous statements who still think Perry can hit high-notes after not even being in the spot-light let alone even being able to sing. There is nothing to grasp with Steve Perry anymore, he is as well as dead. We will never hear form him anymore. EVER & if we do, it'll probably be sad, like an aging Rocky Balboa going down in the 5th round.

[Deb]

It seemed during the middle-half of the Augeri years that this band was dead-flat in the water with nowhere to go. Now they catch heat, catch fire and have one amazing lineup with 2 solid-rocking CD's and people are claiming them dead. I see a lot of Loons around here that act like hardcore religious people waiting for Jesus to return to Earth or that old-hag rapture dude that had a cult following with the world ending. No different than the ludicrous statements who still think Perry can hit high-notes after not even being in the spot-light let alone even being able to sing. There is nothing to grasp with Steve Perry anymore, he is as well as dead. We will never hear form him anymore. EVER & if we do, it'll probably be sad, like an aging Rocky Balboa going down in the 5th round.

Bite your tongue, Trav!

That deserves an NCIS Dinozzo cuff upside the head.

[RedWingFan]

We have a tv at work with a built in dvd player, and I've seen these things play audio cd's, so I thought I'd give it a try. And bingo! I got about 3 songs in before I was told to turn that shit off.

Which was my exact theory of what Cain meant by "it's kind of a headphones album"



http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... s&start=90

I personally would love it to be a headphone album

The album incorporates Hindu principles of Tantra, "the belief that life is kind of a weave, a circle of energy, a life force that's woven with the universe in all of us. We dove deep into it."

Cain goes so far as to call the album "one of those headphone records."

In what dimension does one buy an album to listen to it on their headphones, and not in the car or on a sweet ass sound system? Random guy: "Dude, put that awesome new record on". Mr. Dingleberry: "I will do no such thing! That is an album for my headphuuunes. Hurr Hurr."

I took it to mean that it's one of those headphone records, so you don't have people yelling at you to turn that shit off!!!

[donnaplease]

We have a tv at work with a built in dvd player, and I've seen these things play audio cd's, so I thought I'd give it a try. And bingo! I got about 3 songs in before I was told to turn that shit off.

This is SOOOO freakin' funny, because I can totally see some big burly dude yelling that at you! LMFAO!!!

[Monker]

We have a tv at work with a built in dvd player, and I've seen these things play audio cd's, so I thought I'd give it a try. And bingo! I got about 3 songs in before I was told to turn that shit off.

Which was my exact theory of what Cain meant by "it's kind of a headphones album"



http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... s&start=90

I personally would love it to be a headphone album

The album incorporates Hindu principles of Tantra, "the belief that life is kind of a weave, a circle of energy, a life force that's woven with the universe in all of us. We dove deep into it."

Cain goes so far as to call the album "one of those headphone records."

In what dimension does one buy an album to listen to it on their headphones, and not in the car or on a sweet ass sound system? Random guy: "Dude, put that awesome new record on". Mr. Dingleberry: "I will do no such thing! That is an album for my headphuuunes. Hurr Hurr."

I took it to mean that it's one of those headphone records, so you don't have people yelling at you to turn that shit off!!!

I think there is some hidden, digitized, msg that only comes through on head phones that make people that Eclipse will outrageously successful when it had no chance in hell of happening.

[donnaplease]

Shouldn't the title of this thread be "Hindusight"?

[Monker]

I really was surprised by the lack of media behind the album. An album, no matter how great, won't sell well without being properly advertised to the public (unless the rare circumstance of word of mouth boosts sales in the long run). In fact, I had to tell just about anyone I came across that mentioned Journey that the band was coming out with a new album.

I seriously wonder if it's time for the band to get a new manager, or perhaps get Herbie back on board.

What they need is to beg SP to do a reunion/farewell tour, while simultaneously releasing all Tours on DVD, as well as emptying the vault.

They're not emptying any vaults unless Sony is their label. I also don't see Perry doing anything under Nomota.

And, if Eclipse is what Neal really wants then he should either change the band name or start a new one. Because what difference does it REALLY matter any longer? This album could have been released as Planet US and it probably wouldn't hurt sales that much.

The past five years of BS decisions have really fucked up this band.

The should have changed the band name for Infinity too. I mean, who in their right mind thought THAT sounded anything like Journey.

you hit the ball out of the park on that one. Sheesh, can't it all be good? I love every era - it's all Journey to me.

I was going to reply to that and just didn't get the time to.

He's right...they could have changed the name prior to Infinity. There was really nothing to lose or gain by it...and I don't think it would have changed anything.

Today...there is an entire 30yr history to let go of if they change the name. And, the entire point of hiring Arnel was to emulate the legacy sound so they are turning their back on that too. If that is what they/Neal want to do, then what difference does it really make if Eclipse is recorded as Journey, or not? If they want to hang on to that history, then what the fuck was Eclipse all about then? Either way you look at it this was not a very smart decision. Because of this very conundrum, I think Dean and others are right this will be Journey last full album of new music.

[Michigan Girl]

We have a tv at work with a built in dvd player, and I've seen these things play audio cd's, so I thought I'd give it a try. And bingo! I got about 3 songs in before I was told to turn that shit off.

Which was my exact theory of what Cain meant by "it's kind of a headphones album"



http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... s&start=90

I personally would love it to be a headphone album

The album incorporates Hindu principles of Tantra, "the belief that life is kind of a weave, a circle of energy, a life force that's woven with the universe in all of us. We dove deep into it."

Cain goes so far as to call the album "one of those headphone records."

In what dimension does one buy an album to listen to it on their headphones, and not in the car or on a sweet ass sound system? Random guy: "Dude, put that awesome new record on". Mr. Dingleberry: "I will do no such thing! That is an album for my headphuuunes. Hurr Hurr."

I took it to mean that it's one of those headphone records, so you don't have people yelling at you to turn that shit off!!!

I am LMAO!!!

[Monker]

It seemed during the middle-half of the Augeri years that this band was dead-flat in the water with nowhere to go.

Of course....because Neal was more interested in PlanetUS then Journey. That was when I really started to be upset with this band and their STUPID decisions. The original idea for a concept album was brought up by Neal as a follow up to Arrival...THAT could have worked because Neal and the band had constantly talked about a desire to move away from the Perry years. Instead, they just toured, toured, toured and thrashed Augeri's voice without giving him a break at all. I think the only reason Generation even happened was because Augeri started talking about a solo album...and Journey wanted an anniversary tour..

[quote[
Now they catch heat, catch fire and have one amazing lineup with 2 solid-rocking CD's and people are claiming them dead. I see a lot of Loons around here that act like hardcore religious people waiting for Jesus to return to Earth or that old-hag rapture dude that had a cult following with the world ending.
[/quote]

And, I see a few ArnelHeads predicting outrageous, unattainable, sales for Eclipse....and people following them just like some kinda religious cult. There really isn't much difference between the two groups.

[Rick]

We have a tv at work with a built in dvd player, and I've seen these things play audio cd's, so I thought I'd give it a try. And bingo! I got about 3 songs in before I was told to turn that shit off.

This is SOOOO freakin' funny, because I can totally see some big burly dude yelling that at you! LMFAO!!!

You have no idea how close you are to the truth.

[Majestic]

It seemed during the middle-half of the Augeri years that this band was dead-flat in the water with nowhere to go.

Of course....because Neal was more interested in PlanetUS then Journey. That was when I really started to be upset with this band and their STUPID decisions. The original idea for a concept album was brought up by Neal as a follow up to Arrival...THAT could have worked because Neal and the band had constantly talked about a desire to move away from the Perry years. Instead, they just toured, toured, toured and thrashed Augeri's voice without giving him a break at all. I think the only reason Generation even happened was because Augeri started talking about a solo album...and Journey wanted an anniversary tour..

[quote[
Now they catch heat, catch fire and have one amazing lineup with 2 solid-rocking CD's and people are claiming them dead. I see a lot of Loons around here that act like hardcore religious people waiting for Jesus to return to Earth or that old-hag rapture dude that had a cult following with the world ending.

And, I see a few ArnelHeads predicting outrageous, unattainable, sales for Eclipse....and people following them just like some kinda religious cult. There really isn't much difference between the two groups.[/quote]

Now I finally understand you. You are burnt over Augeri, and still smoldering. Just let it go! Seriously, for the singer that Augeri was, he got the deal and ride of a lifetime, and has nothing to be sorry or complain about. He is a terrificly great guy, and his life is all the better for being with Journey. Now Journey has a singer who is not worn out, and, is also a terrificly great guy. His life will be better too for being in Journey. Why would you be happy if Journey stopped or failed? After all, anyone can just turn off the music and walk away when they've had enough. Any individual can end the journey personally whenever they're through. It seems like you aren't ready to end it for yourself, so just lighten up and enjoy the music and that there still is any Journey at all. It couldn't be the 80s forever, and this is as good as you will get it.

[Monker]

It seemed during the middle-half of the Augeri years that this band was dead-flat in the water with nowhere to go.

Of course....because Neal was more interested in PlanetUS then Journey. That was when I really started to be upset with this band and their STUPID decisions. The original idea for a concept album was brought up by Neal as a follow up to Arrival...THAT could have worked because Neal and the band had constantly talked about a desire to move away from the Perry years. Instead, they just toured, toured, toured and thrashed Augeri's voice without giving him a break at all. I think the only reason Generation even happened was because Augeri started talking about a solo album...and Journey wanted an anniversary tour..

[quote[
Now they catch heat, catch fire and have one amazing lineup with 2 solid-rocking CD's and people are claiming them dead. I see a lot of Loons around here that act like hardcore religious people waiting for Jesus to return to Earth or that old-hag rapture dude that had a cult following with the world ending.

And, I see a few ArnelHeads predicting outrageous, unattainable, sales for Eclipse....and people following them just like some kinda religious cult. There really isn't much difference between the two groups.

Now I finally understand you. You are burnt over Augeri, and still smoldering. Just let it go! Seriously, for the singer that Augeri was, he got the deal and ride of a lifetime, and has nothing to be sorry or complain about. He is a terrificly great guy, and his life is all the better for being with Journey. Now Journey has a singer who is not worn out, and, is also a terrificly great guy. His life will be better too for being in Journey. Why would you be happy if Journey stopped or failed? After all, anyone can just turn off the music and walk away when they've had enough. Any individual can end the journey personally whenever they're through. It seems like you aren't ready to end it for yourself, so just lighten up and enjoy the music and that there still is any Journey at all. It couldn't be the 80s forever, and this is as good as you will get it.[/quote]

And, you are wrong again. I was getting pissed about things even under Augeri. It's this bands dumb-ass decisions that piss me off:

They should have never hired Perry back and instead went forward with Chalfant and Rolie. TBF was a mistake and never filled anybody's expectations...Well, except for maybe Perry's.

They never properly followed up Arrival. Yeah, it wasn't the most successful album they could have released...But, they were still rebuilding. They should have released the full album they promised instead of Red13. Generations was a half-assed joke of a production, slapped together to appease Augeri and get some new songs for the anniversary tour. Which is another thing...that tour should have never happened. The band needed some time off, especially Augeri to rest his voice. Everybody knew it...but the band is full of greedy bastards who only look six months into the future. Then they let go of Augeri...OK, fine, his voice was trashed, but JSS? That made NO SENSE AT ALL. He was no fit for Journey and I think he was only there because Neal wanted him there. If PlanetUS had taken off and became a huge success, I don't think there would be a Journey today because that was the band that Neal seemed to care about at that time. I was pissed that they put the PlanetUS album together and released it in a matter of less then a year...when there had been three years or more of empty promises regarding a Journey album.. That told me where Neal's attention REALLY was. So, then they boot JSS for "whatever" reason (at this point, I really stopped caring) and hired a Perry clone off of YouTube...basically turning their backs on "moving on from Steve Perry" and instead "embracing the legacy sounds"...which IMO really meant, "we need somebody who can rerecord the old songs for Wal-Mart". Now here we are with Eclipse and the band trying to sell the load of crap that they have nowhere else to go but to turn their back on the legacy sound. It's like some kinda comedy.

How can you people not see that Neal has been trying to "move on from Steve Perry" since the early 90's? But, money and greed keep getting in the way. Oh, we want to replace Perry but there is this big reunion $ and TBF. Oh, we want to completely change our sound but there is this big Wal-Mart deal that requires a Perry clone. Now they are trying to move on from Perry yet again....and you now have Arnel's version of Red13. An album you either love or hate, but can not support the bands $ habits.

So, no, it's not just Augeri getting replaced, or Chalfant not getting hired. It's the cumulative dumb-ass short look decisions this band has made for money over the past 20yrs that has left them in this hole they are in now. They have NO WAY OUT now. What are they gonna do now? Ask Wal-Mart if they can do more rerecords for the next release and go back to being an 80's retro sound on the new songs? How pathetic.

[Majestic]

It seemed during the middle-half of the Augeri years that this band was dead-flat in the water with nowhere to go.

Of course....because Neal was more interested in PlanetUS then Journey. That was when I really started to be upset with this band and their STUPID decisions. The original idea for a concept album was brought up by Neal as a follow up to Arrival...THAT could have worked because Neal and the band had constantly talked about a desire to move away from the Perry years. Instead, they just toured, toured, toured and thrashed Augeri's voice without giving him a break at all. I think the only reason Generation even happened was because Augeri started talking about a solo album...and Journey wanted an anniversary tour..

[quote[
Now they catch heat, catch fire and have one amazing lineup with 2 solid-rocking CD's and people are claiming them dead. I see a lot of Loons around here that act like hardcore religious people waiting for Jesus to return to Earth or that old-hag rapture dude that had a cult following with the world ending.

And, I see a few ArnelHeads predicting outrageous, unattainable, sales for Eclipse....and people following them just like some kinda religious cult. There really isn't much difference between the two groups.

Now I finally understand you. You are burnt over Augeri, and still smoldering. Just let it go! Seriously, for the singer that Augeri was, he got the deal and ride of a lifetime, and has nothing to be sorry or complain about. He is a terrificly great guy, and his life is all the better for being with Journey. Now Journey has a singer who is not worn out, and, is also a terrificly great guy. His life will be better too for being in Journey. Why would you be happy if Journey stopped or failed? After all, anyone can just turn off the music and walk away when they've had enough. Any individual can end the journey personally whenever they're through. It seems like you aren't ready to end it for yourself, so just lighten up and enjoy the music and that there still is any Journey at all. It couldn't be the 80s forever, and this is as good as you will get it.

And, you are wrong again. I was getting pissed about things even under Augeri. It's this bands dumb-ass decisions that piss me off:

They should have never hired Perry back and instead went forward with Chalfant and Rolie. TBF was a mistake and never filled anybody's expectations...Well, except for maybe Perry's.

They never properly followed up Arrival. Yeah, it wasn't the most successful album they could have released...But, they were still rebuilding. They should have released the full album they promised instead of Red13. Generations was a half-assed joke of a production, slapped together to appease Augeri and get some new songs for the anniversary tour. Which is another thing...that tour should have never happened. The band needed some time off, especially Augeri to rest his voice. Everybody knew it...but the band is full of greedy bastards who only look six months into the future. Then they let go of Augeri...OK, fine, his voice was trashed, but JSS? That made NO SENSE AT ALL. He was no fit for Journey and I think he was only there because Neal wanted him there. If PlanetUS had taken off and became a huge success, I don't think there would be a Journey today because that was the band that Neal seemed to care about at that time. I was pissed that they put the PlanetUS album together and released it in a matter of less then a year...when there had been three years or more of empty promises regarding a Journey album.. That told me where Neal's attention REALLY was. So, then they boot JSS for "whatever" reason (at this point, I really stopped caring) and hired a Perry clone off of YouTube...basically turning their backs on "moving on from Steve Perry" and instead "embracing the legacy sounds"...which IMO really meant, "we need somebody who can rerecord the old songs for Wal-Mart". Now here we are with Eclipse and the band trying to sell the load of crap that they have nowhere else to go but to turn their back on the legacy sound. It's like some kinda comedy.

How can you people not see that Neal has been trying to "move on from Steve Perry" since the early 90's? But, money and greed keep getting in the way. Oh, we want to replace Perry but there is this big reunion $ and TBF. Oh, we want to completely change our sound but there is this big Wal-Mart deal that requires a Perry clone. Now they are trying to move on from Perry yet again....and you now have Arnel's version of Red13. An album you either love or hate, but can not support the bands $ habits.

So, no, it's not just Augeri getting replaced, or Chalfant not getting hired. It's the cumulative dumb-ass short look decisions this band has made for money over the past 20yrs that has left them in this hole they are in now. They have NO WAY OUT now. What are they gonna do now? Ask Wal-Mart if they can do more rerecords for the next release and go back to being an 80's retro sound on the new songs? How pathetic.[/quote]

Because I still like the music they make. If I didn't, I'd just turn it off, forget about it, and find something else. Why don't you? Being bitter won't change anything.

[S2M]

It seemed during the middle-half of the Augeri years that this band was dead-flat in the water with nowhere to go.

Of course....because Neal was more interested in PlanetUS then Journey. That was when I really started to be upset with this band and their STUPID decisions. The original idea for a concept album was brought up by Neal as a follow up to Arrival...THAT could have worked because Neal and the band had constantly talked about a desire to move away from the Perry years. Instead, they just toured, toured, toured and thrashed Augeri's voice without giving him a break at all. I think the only reason Generation even happened was because Augeri started talking about a solo album...and Journey wanted an anniversary tour..

[quote[
Now they catch heat, catch fire and have one amazing lineup with 2 solid-rocking CD's and people are claiming them dead. I see a lot of Loons around here that act like hardcore religious people waiting for Jesus to return to Earth or that old-hag rapture dude that had a cult following with the world ending.

And, I see a few ArnelHeads predicting outrageous, unattainable, sales for Eclipse....and people following them just like some kinda religious cult. There really isn't much difference between the two groups.

Now I finally understand you. You are burnt over Augeri, and still smoldering. Just let it go! Seriously, for the singer that Augeri was, he got the deal and ride of a lifetime, and has nothing to be sorry or complain about. He is a terrificly great guy, and his life is all the better for being with Journey. Now Journey has a singer who is not worn out, and, is also a terrificly great guy. His life will be better too for being in Journey. Why would you be happy if Journey stopped or failed? After all, anyone can just turn off the music and walk away when they've had enough. Any individual can end the journey personally whenever they're through. It seems like you aren't ready to end it for yourself, so just lighten up and enjoy the music and that there still is any Journey at all. It couldn't be the 80s forever, and this is as good as you will get it.

And, you are wrong again. I was getting pissed about things even under Augeri. It's this bands dumb-ass decisions that piss me off:

They should have never hired Perry back and instead went forward with Chalfant and Rolie. TBF was a mistake and never filled anybody's expectations...Well, except for maybe Perry's.

They never properly followed up Arrival. Yeah, it wasn't the most successful album they could have released...But, they were still rebuilding. They should have released the full album they promised instead of Red13. Generations was a half-assed joke of a production, slapped together to appease Augeri and get some new songs for the anniversary tour. Which is another thing...that tour should have never happened. The band needed some time off, especially Augeri to rest his voice. Everybody knew it...but the band is full of greedy bastards who only look six months into the future. Then they let go of Augeri...OK, fine, his voice was trashed, but JSS? That made NO SENSE AT ALL. He was no fit for Journey and I think he was only there because Neal wanted him there. If PlanetUS had taken off and became a huge success, I don't think there would be a Journey today because that was the band that Neal seemed to care about at that time. I was pissed that they put the PlanetUS album together and released it in a matter of less then a year...when there had been three years or more of empty promises regarding a Journey album.. That told me where Neal's attention REALLY was. So, then they boot JSS for "whatever" reason (at this point, I really stopped caring) and hired a Perry clone off of YouTube...basically turning their backs on "moving on from Steve Perry" and instead "embracing the legacy sounds"...which IMO really meant, "we need somebody who can rerecord the old songs for Wal-Mart". Now here we are with Eclipse and the band trying to sell the load of crap that they have nowhere else to go but to turn their back on the legacy sound. It's like some kinda comedy.

How can you people not see that Neal has been trying to "move on from Steve Perry" since the early 90's? But, money and greed keep getting in the way. Oh, we want to replace Perry but there is this big reunion $ and TBF. Oh, we want to completely change our sound but there is this big Wal-Mart deal that requires a Perry clone. Now they are trying to move on from Perry yet again....and you now have Arnel's version of Red13. An album you either love or hate, but can not support the bands $ habits.

So, no, it's not just Augeri getting replaced, or Chalfant not getting hired. It's the cumulative dumb-ass short look decisions this band has made for money over the past 20yrs that has left them in this hole they are in now. They have NO WAY OUT now. What are they gonna do now? Ask Wal-Mart if they can do more rerecords for the next release and go back to being an 80's retro sound on the new songs? How pathetic.[/quote]

+ 3,000,000

That's my fuzzy math scenario....I really meant +1,000,000

[Jana]

A lot of what you said is true, Monker, but the bottom line is Neal and Jon put a lot of effort into Eclipse, and I think it paid off. Whether they sell a boat load or just eventually hit Gold or not, the most important thing is it is an album they are proud of and many fans like. That's all you can ask of a band is to not write a new album by the numbers. I still hear Journey in this album in certain songs. I appreciate the creaitvity by the band there are some great songs on there that will stand the test of time for me.

[slucero]

Maybe management heard the album... told the band it would be a hard sell.. and the band (Neal) said "fuck you, this is my album"... and management said "OK.. but we aren't putting any real money into marketing this, we don't see anything marketable".....

[Don]

A lot of what you said is true, Monker, but the bottom line is Neal and Jon put a lot of effort into Eclipse, and I think it paid off. Whether they sell a boat load or just eventually hit Gold or not, the most important thing is it is an album they are proud of and many fans like. That's all you can ask of a band is to not write a new album by the numbers. I still hear Journey in this album in certain songs. I appreciate the creaitvity by the band there are some great songs on there that will stand the test of time for me.

That's fine but on the flipside, if they lose their distributor over low sales and the ability to finance another original album over the next three years, will it be worth it? Basically, Arnel will be back where he started from because the Dirty Dozen will be all he gets to sing again for the next three years, with a few of these other songs thrown in. It looks like they've totally dumped the Revelation stuff completely from the setlist already. All the hyperbole created by his back story and what not will have all been wasted and Arnel will back to being another replacement singer, helping the band bide time until retirement.