Eclipse: a truly unbiased review

[parfait]

I agree with several points - especially the one regarding Deen's drumming. No matter how much ritalin that guy takes, he still smashes his drums to death and honestly couldn't lay down a good groove to save his life. It's still a good album though; mostly because of Neal's axe work.

[koberry]

The bad stuff:
...
I take nothing away from Arnel in the technical department. He's got an amazing instrument and he even knows how to convey emotion with it. His voice is technically spectacular. Much stronger singer than Augeri ever was (in Journey IMO). Arnel is a great choice to tour the Perry era catalog. He sounds great on those songs and I can't think of a more deserving human being to achieve the success he now has. He's had a really rough life and he's come out on the other side while maintaining his positivity. He's a truly gracious kind person. Love the guy. We could all learn a thing or two from him.

My issue is with Arnel is subjective. It's about what I like and I'm not here to play politics (like some others do). I'm not trying to convince anyone to fall in line with how I feel. I'm just stating what I think.

That said, IMO, on new music, I find Arnel is not very inventive with melody and to my ears, there's nothing distinct about the sound of his voice. It's very "vanilla" (bland). In short, I find it lacks style. It lacks character. In fact the only character I hear from Arnel conjures imagery of a 16 year old fronting an adult band and to be honest, it turns me off.

I haven't felt this way about Eclipse to date, but I'll keep an ear out when I listen to it next. Thanks for your review.

[Michigan Girl]

This is one of the most incredibly in~depth, unbiased, heartfelt reviews I have ever read.
You have put a lot of things in perspective and helped to clear up a couple of issues that
I have been struggling with. I absolutely feel your pain ...one wants to love this incredibly
talented, wonderful human being and I sometimes can't quite put my finger on THE WHY
of why I am not connecting with this guy ...he seems so perfect in every way.

It's sort of like finding, what seems to be, the perfect man/woman, but something is preventing
you from connecting/falling in love ...it isn't something that one should struggle with ...it's
something that should be very natural ...it just happens!!

I still maintain that I am hearing more Arnel on this lp, and I believe he is yearning to find
his own voice/style as much as we want him to. He just needs to reach down deep and
not be afraid of putting those emotions on display ...the pain, the love, the longing, the whatever!!

Great job, ST ...thank you!!

[STORY_TELLER]

"A Truly Unbiased" review... ie: your own opinion. Just like everyone else has an opinion.

Well, yeah, of course!(smiles) Any review is by definition an offered opinion. I stated several times in my review that it was about what I think. The unbiased title refers to the fact that I have no bone to pick with the band or Arnel. There is no ulterior motive behind my opinion. I'm neither cheerleader nor hater and I'm not trying to sway anyone to my point of view. It's just about what I think and how the album/musical direction affects me and my tastes.

Hope you're feeling better sir!
Warmly,
ST

[Centaure]

Very good post.

I think the same thing about Arnel. He has an amazing voice talent, but he is not a very good interpreter. That is why he seems to read the lyrics instead of singing them.

That's probably why Arnel doesn't touch me the way that Perry or even Augeri did.

I red that he recorded all his vocals twice because Schon and Cain weren't happy with Kevin Shirley's direction. So Arnel is maybe not the only one to "blame". I am sure that he was not in the best conditions to record his vocal parts. Also, I don't think that he has a lot of creative control over his vocal melodies.

[STORY_TELLER]

I still maintain that I am hearing more Arnel on this lp, and I believe he is yearning to find
his own voice/style as much as we want him to. He just needs to reach down deep and
not be afraid of putting those emotions on display ...the pain, the love, the longing, the whatever!!

Great job, ST ...thank you!!

Thanks for the response MG. Glad I could help you hone in on and help quantify your own misgivings. I absolutely agree with you. I for sure hear Arnel being Arnel on this album. I don't want him to sound like Perry. Only Perry should sound like Perry. I want him to find his own approach, but that's the mark of an artist. So far, I hear a guy with an amazing instrument with an oddly youthful almost teenager-like vocal character, but he's at an artistic loss as to what to with it, so he simply follows the melodies given him by Cain and Schon -- and we're left with Bad English. Arnel needs to bring more to the table than just a great voice. He needs to be that 3rd artistic collaborative contributor, but at the end of the day, that's a chemistry thing and it's very very hard to find. And Deen needs to learn how to be more than just a pounder! If Neal Pert can go and take lessons from the masters so late in his career to find the subtleties of drumming, I don't see why Deen can't do the same. All my opinion of course...

[STORY_TELLER]

I red that he recorded all his vocals twice because Schon and Cain weren't happy with Kevin Shirley's direction. So Arnel is maybe not the only one to "blame". I am sure that he was not in the best conditions to record his vocal parts. Also, I don't think that he has a lot of creative control over his vocal melodies.

That's a very very good point. Who knows how much control Neal and Jon were exerting. Could have been a bad thing or it could have been a better than what he originally gave them thing. Problem is, they exert control in the direction they know how to go and it ends up being all too familiar territory. I'm sure it's not easy to open them up to new ideas. Very hard to get an artist to walk away from their instincts.

[Rick]

I agree with several points - especially the one regarding Deen's drumming. No matter how much ritalin that guy takes, he still smashes his drums to death and honestly couldn't lay down a good groove to save his life. It's still a good album though; mostly because of Neal's axe work.

If you don't think Human Feel has a great groove, you're fucking deaf!

[STORY_TELLER]

I agree with several points - especially the one regarding Deen's drumming. No matter how much ritalin that guy takes, he still smashes his drums to death and honestly couldn't lay down a good groove to save his life. It's still a good album though; mostly because of Neal's axe work.

If you don't think Human Feel has a great groove, you're fucking deaf!

Now now -- this has been a curse free discussion, lets try and keep it there, lol....

That song does have a strong groove, I agree. Love the instrumentals, but the lyrics and vocal melody only engaged me for about 16 listens before I didn't care anymore (but that's just me). Neal said he got that groove off a drum machine in a recent interview, so it wasn't sourced from Deen, he just played what Neal put in front of him -- but I swear I heard that beat used before on an Abraxas Pool tune. But this only highlights my issue with Deen. He's capable of more but he isn't doing it. He should go and do what Pert did. No artist should ever stop trying to grow.

Don't get me wrong, guys. There's some truly awesome stuff going on in this album. Neal was right to stretch in this direction. The problem I'm having is I don't feel like the rest of the band has enough of his leanings to make the album gel the way it could. Wish I could get an instrumental version of this album without the vocals/melodies. I'd love to hone in on Neal's wall of sound alone. I'm a Neal fan guys, make no mistake. Not a day goes by I don't listen to something he's done and I've been doing so since the early 90's (didn't discover Journey until long after their first breakup).

[Rick]

I agree with several points - especially the one regarding Deen's drumming. No matter how much ritalin that guy takes, he still smashes his drums to death and honestly couldn't lay down a good groove to save his life. It's still a good album though; mostly because of Neal's axe work.

If you don't think Human Feel has a great groove, you're fucking deaf!

Now now -- this has been a curse free discussion, lets try and keep it there, lol....

That song does have a strong groove, I agree. Love the instrumentals, but the lyrics and vocal melody only engaged me for about 16 listens before I didn't care anymore (but that's just me). Neal said he got that groove off a drum machine in a recent interview, so it wasn't sourced from Deen, he just played what Neal put in front of him -- but I swear I heard that beat used before on an Abraxas Pool tune. But this only highlights my issue with Deen. He's capable of more but he isn't doing it. He should go and do what Pert did. No artist should ever stop trying to grow.

Don't get me wrong, guys. There's some truly awesome stuff going on in this album. Neal was right to stretch in this direction. The problem I'm having is I don't feel like the rest of the band has enough of his leanings to make the album gel the way it could. Wish I could get an instrumental version of this album without the vocals/melodies. I'd love to hone in on Neal's wall of sound alone. I'm a Neal fan guys, make no mistake. Not a day goes by I don't listen to something he's done and I've been doing so since the early 90's (didn't discover Journey until long after their first breakup).

I'm just busting Parfait's chops. Sorry to derail.

[STORY_TELLER]

I agree with several points - especially the one regarding Deen's drumming. No matter how much ritalin that guy takes, he still smashes his drums to death and honestly couldn't lay down a good groove to save his life. It's still a good album though; mostly because of Neal's axe work.

If you don't think Human Feel has a great groove, you're fucking deaf!

Now now -- this has been a curse free discussion, lets try and keep it there, lol....

That song does have a strong groove, I agree. Love the instrumentals, but the lyrics and vocal melody only engaged me for about 16 listens before I didn't care anymore (but that's just me). Neal said he got that groove off a drum machine in a recent interview, so it wasn't sourced from Deen, he just played what Neal put in front of him -- but I swear I heard that beat used before on an Abraxas Pool tune. But this only highlights my issue with Deen. He's capable of more but he isn't doing it. He should go and do what Pert did. No artist should ever stop trying to grow.

Don't get me wrong, guys. There's some truly awesome stuff going on in this album. Neal was right to stretch in this direction. The problem I'm having is I don't feel like the rest of the band has enough of his leanings to make the album gel the way it could. Wish I could get an instrumental version of this album without the vocals/melodies. I'd love to hone in on Neal's wall of sound alone. I'm a Neal fan guys, make no mistake. Not a day goes by I don't listen to something he's done and I've been doing so since the early 90's (didn't discover Journey until long after their first breakup).

I'm just busting Parfait's chops. Sorry to derail.

No worries, I'm just busting yours -- heh

[The_Noble_Cause]

Well, we'll agree to disagree there. Tantra is pure broadway IMO.

I just hear an untraditional ballad that's attempting to be about something besides "boy meets girl, boy & girl fall in love."
It's about as broadway as "Winds of March" or "Mother Father." It's overblown to be sure, but power ballads aren't exactly known for their subtlety. To be perfectly honest, "Open Arms", is about the most Andrew Lloyd Webber, showtunish song the band has ever done. You could replace Perry with Doris Day and the results would be the same imo.

[STORY_TELLER]

Well, we'll agree to disagree there. Tantra is pure broadway IMO.

I just hear an untraditional ballad that's attempting to be about something besides "boy meets girl, boy & girl fall in love."
It's about as broadway as "Winds of March" or "Mother Father." It's overblown to be sure, but power ballads aren't exactly known for their subtlety. To be perfectly honest, "Open Arms", is about the most Andrew Lloyd Webber, showtunish song the band has ever done. You could replace Perry with Doris Day and the results would be the same imo.

Interesting points dude, thanks for chiming in. I for sure agree with the Winds of March and Mother Father comparisons, but I don't feel like either of those songs come across with the same broadway feel this one did. The difference (for me) is the lyrical content, the song structure and the singer. Arnel's vocal character really feels like that of a broadway singer on this one, and that could have been the intent. I don't know. I do think the song itself comes across as a bit preachy, but you're going to get that when you write so on the nose about spiritual subject matter. That alone is a turn off for me.

You brought up Perry so this is now a secondary discussion, but I feel like had he been involved, I doubt Perry would have sung this song as is. I believe he would have been an influence on the structure, lyrical content and especially the melody. His execution of the same song would have infused it with R&B soul and given it a deeper delivery. I think a perfect illustration of this are the two version of "I stand alone". One was sung by Perry, the other by a broadway style singer. The broadway guy had a much cleaner voice and a strong delivery, but the character of his execution was pure broadway while Perry's had soul. Could be that's the make/break point between sounding broadway and bridging it into a pop song -- at least for me anyway. I personally gravitate toward soul singers. Arnel can deliver emotion, but I don't feel it from a soul perspective. And maybe that's what's bugging me, I don't know. Maybe what I'm missing from Journey is that R&B influence. Hard to know unless they go some other guy in there with an R&B base to his voice for comparison and that's not happening. Ce La Vie.

Cheers

[Arkansas]

Why is it that a slow Journey song is instantly called a power ballad? Tantra isn't a power ballad. I don't know what that thing is honestly.
But yes about Broadway. Like I said in another thread, I hear Phantom of the Opera or Josh Groban.
And that's not necessarily good or bad. It's just different. It's almost like some artsy interlude they threw in just help to tie the concepts of the album together.

And speaking of, I do wish there were segues between some songs. I think to underscore the whole 'concept' thing, the album should flow a little better between songs.


later~

[Michigan Girl]

Well, we'll agree to disagree there. Tantra is pure broadway IMO.

I just hear an untraditional ballad that's attempting to be about something besides "boy meets girl, boy & girl fall in love."
It's about as broadway as "Winds of March" or "Mother Father." It's overblown to be sure, but power ballads aren't exactly known for their subtlety. To be perfectly honest, "Open Arms", is about the most Andrew Lloyd Webber, showtunish song the band has ever done. You could replace Perry with Doris Day and the results would be the same imo.

Interesting points dude, thanks for chiming in. I for sure agree with the Winds of March and Mother Father comparisons, but I don't feel like either of those songs come across with the same broadway feel this one did. The difference (for me) is the lyrical content, the song structure and the singer. Arnel's vocal character really feels like that of a broadway singer on this one

HELLO ... I'm amazed that folks cannot hear the difference
between the dramatic, emotional, yet soulful delivery in MF and WOM as opposed to
the broadway feel of TANTRA?!?! There's nothing wrong with liking it
and admitting that there is a definite difference in delivery there, I can practically
see a chorus line of women doing leg kicks to "One" in my mind ...TNC!?!

[STORY_TELLER]

Why is it that a slow Journey song is instantly called a power ballad? Tantra isn't a power ballad. I don't know what that thing is honestly.

I always thought the difference between a power ballad and a regular ballad is the power chords from the guitar. The hard hitting lift from the rest of the band driving the song forward at strategic sections. By contrast, a regular ballad has the same energy level throughout. Example of a regular ballad would be The Rolling Stone's "Angie". It starts as it ends and at no point does the energy or tempo change. By that definition, I think Tantra is a power ballad, but I don't really consider it a ballad at all.

But yes about Broadway. Like I said in another thread, I hear Phantom of the Opera or Josh Groban.
And that's not necessarily good or bad. It's just different. It's almost like some artsy interlude they threw in just help to tie the concepts of the album together.

It's personal taste. What turns me off is the execution of all the elements. How it comes together doesn't do it for me. Doesn't mean they should try to do this stuff, it means I don't dig the results here. As TNC pointed out, Winds of March and Mother Father isn't too far removed in terms of approach, but those songs don't bother me one bit, so to my ears, they succeeded.

And speaking of, I do wish there were segues between some songs. I think to underscore the whole 'concept' thing, the album should flow a little better between songs.

Totally agree. I feel like there's an inconsistency to the album theme. Some songs have a really spiritual vibe and others feel like they're standard boy-girl tunes and could have come out of a Bad English session.

Like I said, great attempt, that album has some really shining moments and I think Neal should push this direction and go even further next time, but on the whole it didn't cross the finish line for me.

[JourneyHard]

I don't know what you mean by "sounding like Bad English." Is Jon Waite on Eclipse somewhere?

[Rick]

I don't know what you mean by "sounding like Bad English." Is Jon Waite on Eclipse somewhere?

No, but 3/5 of Journey were in Bad English.

[Rockindeano]

I don't know what you mean by "sounding like Bad English." Is Jon Waite on Eclipse somewhere?

No, but 3/5 of Journey were in Bad English.

And yet another speaks bad english, so make that 4/5.

[geminix]

I don't know what you mean by "sounding like Bad English." Is Jon Waite on Eclipse somewhere?

No, but 3/5 of Journey were in Bad English.

And yet another speaks bad english, so make that 4/5.

Classic

[STORY_TELLER]

I don't know what you mean by "sounding like Bad English." Is Jon Waite on Eclipse somewhere?

What I mean by that is in reference to the song writing/execution, both lyrically and instrumentally. The resulting feel is something we could have heard from JC and Schon when they were in Bad English.