Journey at the Rose Garden tonight- Oregon

[portland]

Hey, I apologized for jumping on MG. The grammar thing was just a joke. I couldn't help myself.
I agree with you that we hear what we hear, totally. HOWEVER, so many throw everything through the SP filter and you're huge with that Portland. Simply because he's NOT Perry, you hear these MINUTE diction issues. The guy's diction problem is minimal at best (talking about singing here, not his local accent). I think a lot of people (you included) just cannot stand that the guy is out there doing what he's doing with Journey. Some see it as some kind of sacrilegious act. They'll gripe about things simply because he's not "THE" Mr. P, but the new, littler Mr. p. No need to get into this. I've said this all a bazillion times. I read MG's post incorrectly. I will tell Arnel how much the diction issues but you when I meet him tomorrow night.

Bry, you are assuming other peoples thoughts there. I don't think that is the case for the most part. For some people, he just simply doesn't do it for them. I think he's a great singer, nice guy, etc. But there is just something missing in his delivery that I require, it has nothing to do with diction or his nationality at all. And I'm not sure what his influences are, but IMO, Perry and Soto both have that R&B rock influenced vocal delivery. Ya either got it or ya don't. It's organic, not something that is learned. That's why I'm pretty much just indifferent with Journey when IMO the LS doesn't possess those qualities. As for frontman, I don't think he's bad and seems to be getting better........and following Soto, who excells at it, can't be an easy feat........there has to be a certain amount of confidence and polish to pull off being a great frontman and make it look natural not phony/dorky.

Deb...Soto was in Journey???

[jestor92]

My problem with Arnel is to me he seems like he over sings the songs. It's not just the SP stuff that to my ears he over sings its his matierial as well. When he does it his vocs don't sound good to my ears. When he doesn't over sing the matierial he actually sounds good. An example of him not over singing is the end of She's a Mystery because he just lets loose on the vocs and it sounds great. Where as on a song like Edge of The Moment when they're doing the chorus he just seems like he wants to get a note higher but can't and because of that it sounds like he's over singing.

I don't throw the entire blame of the band's state on Arnel though because Neal and Jon have written maybe 1 album's worth of good music combined since Augeri was left go and that's more on them than it is Arnel.

Edit for: Also forgot to mention that when Arnel tries to emulate Sam Cooke it makes me

[brywool]

Hey, I apologized for jumping on MG. The grammar thing was just a joke. I couldn't help myself.
I agree with you that we hear what we hear, totally. HOWEVER, so many throw everything through the SP filter and you're huge with that Portland. Simply because he's NOT Perry, you hear these MINUTE diction issues. The guy's diction problem is minimal at best (talking about singing here, not his local accent). I think a lot of people (you included) just cannot stand that the guy is out there doing what he's doing with Journey. Some see it as some kind of sacrilegious act. They'll gripe about things simply because he's not "THE" Mr. P, but the new, littler Mr. p. No need to get into this. I've said this all a bazillion times. I read MG's post incorrectly. I will tell Arnel how much the diction issues but you when I meet him tomorrow night.

Bry, you are assuming other peoples thoughts there. I don't think that is the case for the most part. For some people, he just simply doesn't do it for them. I think he's a great singer, nice guy, etc. But there is just something missing in his delivery that I require, it has nothing to do with diction or his nationality at all. And I'm not sure what his influences are, but IMO, Perry and Soto both have that R&B rock influenced vocal delivery. IMO, you either got it or ya don't. It's organic, not something that is learned. As for frontman, I don't think he's bad and seems to be getting better........and following Soto, who excells at it, can't be an easy feat........there has to be a certain amount of confidence and polish to pull off being a great frontman and make it look natural not phony/dorky.

Actually, I am assuming what I am... BASED ON Portland, MG, and Your tastes (not just because). All 3 of you kind of come from the same place and usually all 3 of you get into this same discussion with me.

Sotto's gotta very soulful voice. VERY. But for Journey, he's so NOT the guy. For Soul Sirkus, it was cool. For Journey, I never got it. As far as front man, when I heard him use the ever popular B-room phrase "Somebody Scream!" I just cringed. But vocally speaking, he's a great singer.

Pineda, I don't think comes off as phony or dorky. If you're looking for your frontguy to be "sexy", then he's not your guy and that explains everything right there. You cannot deny that voice. He's gotta lotta soul too. Listen to "Turn Down the World Tonight". That performance is stellar. His version of "When You Love a Woman" is also great. I think he comes off much better than Augeri ever did as a front guy (and I liked Augeri). Arnel is more like Perry was. Perry used to run all over the stage. I dug that a lot. Perry was great about throwing the City into his banter too (and songs), that's also a great stage trick. I thought Perry was a great frontguy, by the way. I thought Perry was "God" until the TBF stuff went down and then a lot of stuff came out about him. Then I just thought "Wow, what an ahole". To me, I see Arnel out there working the crowd and singing his ass off hitting notes Perry hasn't hit since his first years in the band. The language (spoken) can be a problem with his banter, but dang, he's NOT an English-speaking guy. So what? The guy's the friggin' "RocknRoll Rocky". How can you not like that? One thing that also comes from him is a very "team" attitude. It's not "The Arnel Show". With Perry, it was "Journey" till ROR, then it became "Steve and the boys". No thanks.

We likes what we likes. Even though I'm not a big Soto fan, I don't try to find my way into every post that praises him to rank on him.

[brywool]

Actually I can't stand you....I am fine with AP.

wow. ok.

[Deb]

Sotto's gotta very soulful voice. VERY. But for Journey, he's so NOT the guy. For Soul Sirkus, it was cool. For Journey, I never got it. As far as front man, when I heard him use the ever popular B-room phrase "Somebody Scream!" I just cringed. But vocally speaking, he's a great singer.

Pineda, I don't think comes off as phony or dorky. If you're looking for your frontguy to be "sexy", then he's not your guy and that explains everything right there. You cannot deny that voice. He's gotta lotta soul too. Listen to "Turn Down the World Tonight". That performance is stellar. His version of "When You Love a Woman" is also great. I think he comes off much better than Augeri ever did as a front guy (and I liked Augeri). Arnel is more like Perry was. Perry used to run all over the stage. I dug that a lot. Perry was great about throwing the City into his banter too (and songs), that's also a great stage trick. I thought Perry was a great frontguy, by the way. I thought Perry was "God" until the TBF stuff went down and then a lot of stuff came out about him. Then I just thought "Wow, what an ahole". To me, I see Arnel out there working the crowd and singing his ass off hitting notes Perry hasn't hit since his first years in the band. The language (spoken) can be a problem with his banter, but dang, he's NOT an English-speaking guy. So what? The guy's the friggin' "RocknRoll Rocky". How can you not like that? One thing that also comes from him is a very "team" attitude. It's not "The Arnel Show". With Perry, it was "Journey" till ROR, then it became "Steve and the boys". No thanks.

So is Soto's. You're right, we likes what we likes, just differing opinions............as I disagree with you and prefer Soto's When You Love A Woman better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGE3wNjNE4k For me, it is by far the best delivery next to Perry's. But then, I'm not into slamming another singer to pump my own. It doesn't bother me at all if somebody is passionate about Arnel's vocals/performance and praising the heck out of him, good on 'em, just as long as they aren't slamming one of mine to do so.

As for frontman, sure, for most women there has to be at least a small amount of sex appeal to be a great frontman......but I think most of that comes from confidence. Like I said I don't think he's as polished of a frontman as Soto, but he gets the job done. Don't get me wrong, dorky can be cute too sometimes. Just like Arnel, Perry could come off looking dorky too sometimes. And heck EM, another of my fave frontmen can be polished/confident/sexy one minute and with one dance move can come across adorably dorky just like SP or AP. It is phoney or over confident that I just can't stomach. For some reason, JBJ is falling into this catagory for me lately, he looks like he's putting on an arobics class and some of his posturing and moves just come across as arrogant and completely unsexy IMO.

[brywool]

Sotto's gotta very soulful voice. VERY. But for Journey, he's so NOT the guy. For Soul Sirkus, it was cool. For Journey, I never got it. As far as front man, when I heard him use the ever popular B-room phrase "Somebody Scream!" I just cringed. But vocally speaking, he's a great singer.

Pineda, I don't think comes off as phony or dorky. If you're looking for your frontguy to be "sexy", then he's not your guy and that explains everything right there. You cannot deny that voice. He's gotta lotta soul too. Listen to "Turn Down the World Tonight". That performance is stellar. His version of "When You Love a Woman" is also great. I think he comes off much better than Augeri ever did as a front guy (and I liked Augeri). Arnel is more like Perry was. Perry used to run all over the stage. I dug that a lot. Perry was great about throwing the City into his banter too (and songs), that's also a great stage trick. I thought Perry was a great frontguy, by the way. I thought Perry was "God" until the TBF stuff went down and then a lot of stuff came out about him. Then I just thought "Wow, what an ahole". To me, I see Arnel out there working the crowd and singing his ass off hitting notes Perry hasn't hit since his first years in the band. The language (spoken) can be a problem with his banter, but dang, he's NOT an English-speaking guy. So what? The guy's the friggin' "RocknRoll Rocky". How can you not like that? One thing that also comes from him is a very "team" attitude. It's not "The Arnel Show". With Perry, it was "Journey" till ROR, then it became "Steve and the boys". No thanks.

So is Soto's. You're right, we likes what we likes, just differing opinions............as I disagree with you and prefer Soto's When You Love A Woman better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGE3wNjNE4k For me, it is by far the best delivery next to Perry's. But then, I'm not into slamming another singer to pump my own. It doesn't bother me at all if somebody is passionate about Arnel's vocals/performance and praising the heck out of him, good on 'em, just as long as they aren't slamming one of mine to do so.

As for frontman, sure, for most women there has to be at least a small amount of sex appeal to be a great frontman......but I think most of that comes from confidence. Like I said I don't think he's as polished of a frontman as Soto, but he gets the job done. Don't get me wrong, dorky can be cute too sometimes. Just like Arnel, Perry could come off looking dorky too sometimes. And heck EM, another of my fave frontmen can be polished/confident/sexy one minute and with one dance move can come across adorably dorky just like SP or AP. It is phoney or over confident that I just can't stomach. For some reason, JBJ is falling into this catagory for me lately, he looks like he's putting on an arobics class and some of his posturing and moves just come across as arrogant and completely unsexy IMO.

Arnel as arrogant. Wow, can't see it. But it's all in the perception.
I thank you Deb for an intelligent swapping of ideas. Way to keep to your perceptions without it getting personal.
BTW- Is most of MR. Big like that clip I sent yesterday? That was pretty decent stuff.

[portland]

Actually I can't stand you....I am fine with AP.

wow. ok.

What I should have said is....I can't stand your constant cramming AP down everyones
throat who does not happen to agree with your take on his fronting Journey.

I don't know you...therefore I can't say I can't stand you.

Thanks

Holly

[Ehwmatt]

Sotto's gotta very soulful voice. VERY. But for Journey, he's so NOT the guy. For Soul Sirkus, it was cool. For Journey, I never got it. As far as front man, when I heard him use the ever popular B-room phrase "Somebody Scream!" I just cringed. But vocally speaking, he's a great singer.

Pineda, I don't think comes off as phony or dorky. If you're looking for your frontguy to be "sexy", then he's not your guy and that explains everything right there. You cannot deny that voice. He's gotta lotta soul too. Listen to "Turn Down the World Tonight". That performance is stellar. His version of "When You Love a Woman" is also great. I think he comes off much better than Augeri ever did as a front guy (and I liked Augeri). Arnel is more like Perry was. Perry used to run all over the stage. I dug that a lot. Perry was great about throwing the City into his banter too (and songs), that's also a great stage trick. I thought Perry was a great frontguy, by the way. I thought Perry was "God" until the TBF stuff went down and then a lot of stuff came out about him. Then I just thought "Wow, what an ahole". To me, I see Arnel out there working the crowd and singing his ass off hitting notes Perry hasn't hit since his first years in the band. The language (spoken) can be a problem with his banter, but dang, he's NOT an English-speaking guy. So what? The guy's the friggin' "RocknRoll Rocky". How can you not like that? One thing that also comes from him is a very "team" attitude. It's not "The Arnel Show". With Perry, it was "Journey" till ROR, then it became "Steve and the boys". No thanks.

So is Soto's. You're right, we likes what we likes, just differing opinions............as I disagree with you and prefer Soto's When You Love A Woman better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGE3wNjNE4k For me, it is by far the best delivery next to Perry's. But then, I'm not into slamming another singer to pump my own. It doesn't bother me at all if somebody is passionate about Arnel's vocals/performance and praising the heck out of him, good on 'em, just as long as they aren't slamming one of mine to do so.

As for frontman, sure, for most women there has to be at least a small amount of sex appeal to be a great frontman......but I think most of that comes from confidence. Like I said I don't think he's as polished of a frontman as Soto, but he gets the job done. Don't get me wrong, dorky can be cute too sometimes. Just like Arnel, Perry could come off looking dorky too sometimes. And heck EM, another of my fave frontmen can be polished/confident/sexy one minute and with one dance move can come across adorably dorky just like SP or AP. It is phoney or over confident that I just can't stomach. For some reason, JBJ is falling into this catagory for me lately, he looks like he's putting on an arobics class and some of his posturing and moves just come across as arrogant and completely unsexy IMO.

Arnel as arrogant. Wow, can't see it. But it's all in the perception.
I thank you Deb for an intelligent swapping of ideas. Way to keep to your perceptions without it getting personal.
BTW- Is most of MR. Big like that clip I sent yesterday? That was pretty decent stuff.

I think she was talking about Jon Bon Jovi in re: the "arrogant" remark

[Deb]

Arnel as arrogant. Wow, can't see it. But it's all in the perception.
I thank you Deb for an intelligent swapping of ideas. Way to keep to your perceptions without it getting personal.
BTW- Is most of MR. Big like that clip I sent yesterday? That was pretty decent stuff.

I think she was talking about Jon Bon Jovi in re: the "arrogant" remark

Yep, as per my post above. Even tho AP vocals (delivery) isn't my cup of tea, arrogant is definitely one adjective I wouldn't use to describe Arnel, by all accounts he seems to be a very sweet and humble guy, lol the polar opposite of arrogant. I was a major Bon Jovi fan (can't even tell you how many friends I turned onto them way before they even exploded with the Slippery album) but I haven't liked their musical direction in, say probably the last 5-10 years) and I don't know if he's just gotten to big for his britches, but from interviews, footage and attending at least one or two concerts in the last 10 years, I find he's lost any humbleness he had, etc. and comes across as arrogant and has an 'I'm all that and a bag of chips" kind of 'tude. There is confident and there is over-confident. The latter of which is a complete turn off and the polar opposite of sexy, IMO. There is other rockstars just as big as him that don't carry around that arrogance. Hell, I'm not even a fan of Bruce Springsteen, but I don't get that perception from him.

And yes, Bry, MB do have lots of songs like that one (Undertow is the clip you posted yesterday). Lots of great tunes in their catalogue. Like I said in reply to your post yesterday, that is one of my biggest pet peeves is people not checking them out or giving them a chance because of To Be With You (well that, and grunge coming in just as they started making it big ) LOL, over 90% of their stuff sounds nothing like TBWY.

Think you'll like this one too......... Next Time Around ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm9S-5QpO-k

[brywool]

Arnel as arrogant. Wow, can't see it. But it's all in the perception.
I thank you Deb for an intelligent swapping of ideas. Way to keep to your perceptions without it getting personal.
BTW- Is most of MR. Big like that clip I sent yesterday? That was pretty decent stuff.

I think she was talking about Jon Bon Jovi in re: the "arrogant" remark

Yep, as per my post above. Even tho AP vocals (delivery) isn't my cup of tea, arrogant is definitely one adjective I wouldn't use to describe Arnel, by all accounts he seems to be a very sweet and humble guy, lol the polar opposite of arrogant. I was a major Bon Jovi fan (can't even tell you how many friends I turned onto them way before they even exploded with the Slippery album) but I haven't liked their musical direction in, say probably the last 5-10 years) and I don't know if he's just gotten to big for his britches, but from interviews, footage and attending at least one or two concerts in the last 10 years, I find he's lost any humbleness he had, etc. and comes across as arrogant and has an 'I'm all that and a bag of chips" kind of 'tude. There is confident and there is over-confident. The latter of which is a complete turn off and the polar opposite of sexy, IMO. There is other rockstars just as big as him that don't carry around that arrogance. Hell, I'm not even a fan of Bruce Springsteen, but I don't get that perception from him.

And yes, Bry, MB do have lots of songs like that one (Undertow is the clip you posted yesterday). Lots of great tunes in their catalogue. Like I said in reply to your post yesterday, that is one of my biggest pet peeves is people not checking them out or giving them a chance because of To Be With You (well that, and grunge coming in just as they started making it big ) LOL, over 90% of their stuff sounds nothing like TBWY.

Think you'll like this one too......... Next Time Around ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm9S-5QpO-k

Ooops! was at work and skimmed right over the JBJ remark. I TOTALLY agree with that AND his voice blows these days.
I like Sambora quite a bit though. Great player.

[Yoda]

I always felt JBJ could probably be a bit arrogant and I have to agree with Brywool, Jovi's voice has gone downhill. I can't stand his nasally style of singing now. Some might write that off as Jon trying to sing more "country", but I think it just sounds bad altogether. Sambora has always been the better singer between the two in my opinion, and I used to be a huge Bon Jovi fan.

[brywool]

I always felt JBJ could probably be a bit arrogant and I have to agree with Brywool, Jovi's voice has gone downhill. I can't stand his nasally style of singing now. Some might write that off as Jon trying to sing more "country", but I think it just sounds bad altogether. Sambora has always been the better singer between the two in my opinion, and I used to be a huge Bon Jovi fan.

I remember hearing that he got into a coach after a lot of issues and that real tight delivery was part of that new training. It sounds so unnatural to me and just so tight. It sounds painful and forced.

[Yoda]

I always felt JBJ could probably be a bit arrogant and I have to agree with Brywool, Jovi's voice has gone downhill. I can't stand his nasally style of singing now. Some might write that off as Jon trying to sing more "country", but I think it just sounds bad altogether. Sambora has always been the better singer between the two in my opinion, and I used to be a huge Bon Jovi fan.

I remember hearing that he got into a coach after a lot of issues and that real tight delivery was part of that new training. It sounds so unnatural to me and just so tight. It sounds painful and forced.

I think he must have gotten the wrong coach! Kind of reminds me of the debate I was reading about yesterday over at Metallica's website about James Hetfield's voice. Hetfield seems to have lost all of that "grit and growl" that he used to have during the 80's and early 90's of Metallica. Of course, he did blow his voice out during the Black Album sessions, but I think he had a vocal coach who, similarly to JBJ, tried to change his voice. While I'm one of the few who enjoyed the Load/Reload years, I can't hardly listen to live 'tallica now because James doesn't even try to sound like the James Hetfield of those albums.

[brywool]

I always felt JBJ could probably be a bit arrogant and I have to agree with Brywool, Jovi's voice has gone downhill. I can't stand his nasally style of singing now. Some might write that off as Jon trying to sing more "country", but I think it just sounds bad altogether. Sambora has always been the better singer between the two in my opinion, and I used to be a huge Bon Jovi fan.

I remember hearing that he got into a coach after a lot of issues and that real tight delivery was part of that new training. It sounds so unnatural to me and just so tight. It sounds painful and forced.

I think he must have gotten the wrong coach! Kind of reminds me of the debate I was reading about yesterday over at Metallica's website about James Hetfield's voice. Hetfield seems to have lost all of that "grit and growl" that he used to have during the 80's and early 90's of Metallica. Of course, he did blow his voice out during the Black Album sessions, but I think he had a vocal coach who, similarly to JBJ, tried to change his voice. While I'm one of the few who enjoyed the Load/Reload years, I can't hardly listen to live 'tallica now because James doesn't even try to sound like the James Hetfield of those albums.

The growl was probably the thing that cost him his voice. Wasn't James a drinker too? That'll do it too.

[Yoda]

I always felt JBJ could probably be a bit arrogant and I have to agree with Brywool, Jovi's voice has gone downhill. I can't stand his nasally style of singing now. Some might write that off as Jon trying to sing more "country", but I think it just sounds bad altogether. Sambora has always been the better singer between the two in my opinion, and I used to be a huge Bon Jovi fan.

I remember hearing that he got into a coach after a lot of issues and that real tight delivery was part of that new training. It sounds so unnatural to me and just so tight. It sounds painful and forced.

I think he must have gotten the wrong coach! Kind of reminds me of the debate I was reading about yesterday over at Metallica's website about James Hetfield's voice. Hetfield seems to have lost all of that "grit and growl" that he used to have during the 80's and early 90's of Metallica. Of course, he did blow his voice out during the Black Album sessions, but I think he had a vocal coach who, similarly to JBJ, tried to change his voice. While I'm one of the few who enjoyed the Load/Reload years, I can't hardly listen to live 'tallica now because James doesn't even try to sound like the James Hetfield of those albums.

The growl was probably the thing that cost him his voice. Wasn't James a drinker too? That'll do it too.

Yeah, he was quite the drinker in his day. I'm sure that had a lot to do with it.

[koberry]

Is that what happened to Brian Johnson of AC/DC some time after For Those About To Rock? He went from a great growly voice to nasally. Haven't like much from then since...

[brywool]

Is that what happened to Brian Johnson of AC/DC some time after For Those About To Rock? He went from a great growly voice to nasally. Haven't like much from then since...

Ha no idea. That whole thing has always been a mystery to me. How does he do that and hock up his vocal chords?

[AR]

I grew tired of the endless search for a Perry clone. When Augeri was first hired I scoffed at the idea then. However it brought the band back, and I grew to accept it until the band ran him into the ground and ended up with egg on their face. Soto was at the very least possible departure from all that and that's what I wanted.

After that, there was no way I would ever really care about Journey again. It was just going to be authorized karaoke, no matter who was hired.

I will go see Arnel live by himself once he ditches the old guys touring to make their final dollars in the business (which has been proven by their decision to drop all but 1 of their new songs)

[steveo777]

I grew tired of the endless search for a Perry clone. When Augeri was first hired I scoffed at the idea then. However it brought the band back, and I grew to accept it until the band ran him into the ground and ended up with egg on their face. Soto was at the very least possible departure from all that and that's what I wanted.

After that, there was no way I would ever really care about Journey again. It was just going to be authorized karaoke, no matter who was hired.

I will go see Arnel live by himself once he ditches the old guys touring to make their final dollars in the business (which has been proven by their decision to drop all but 1 of their new songs)

I share many of your sentiments at this point. I'm tired of getting all wet with new stuff, then having it fizzle out and not be supported, just because Journey management knows they can fill venues on the laurels of the past hits.

[AR]

I grew tired of the endless search for a Perry clone. When Augeri was first hired I scoffed at the idea then. However it brought the band back, and I grew to accept it until the band ran him into the ground and ended up with egg on their face. Soto was at the very least possible departure from all that and that's what I wanted.

After that, there was no way I would ever really care about Journey again. It was just going to be authorized karaoke, no matter who was hired.

I will go see Arnel live by himself once he ditches the old guys touring to make their final dollars in the business (which has been proven by their decision to drop all but 1 of their new songs)

I share many of your sentiments at this point. I'm tired of getting all wet with new stuff, then having it fizzle out and not be supported, just because Journey management knows they can fill venues on the laurels of the past hits.

Just a shame that the first thing that made me even look at 'Journey" at this point was Eclipse. Despite all my issues with the band, I thought it was a credible effort. However, they didn't support it. If it wasn't all about the money, they would have shunned the greatest hits 3 package tours, played theaters and called it 'An Evening of Journey" and featured the new CD.

[Saint John]

Portland is a whore.

[bluejeangirl76]

Portland is a whore.

Dick! I will slap you! And I CAN ... I'm right behind you! .

[Saint John]

Portland is a whore.

Dick! I will slap you! And I CAN ... I'm right behind you! .

Ouch!