Radio play vs Album sales

[Don]

I read on AP's site where Neal said more albums sales might generate more Eclipse tunes played in concert as he doesn't like to see thousands of people just sitting their when those songs get played. He believes it''s because the audience doesn't know the songs, more so then than they don't like the songs.
The band will also be releasing a Resonate video soon.

With the tour over, why even release a video of another new song when you never played the one song live (AIP) that was getting radio airplay to begin with not to mention it also had a nice chart run of over six weeks on the Billboard A/C chart?

So, since AIP didn't generate album sales, it never earned a spot over La Do Da in the setlist?

[Saint John]

Journey made its bed by packaging up with 2 other nostalgic acts and marketing it as a GH tour. So, in short, that's the type of audience they drew ... fans that wanted to hear songs they grew up listening to. If there's one lesson learned here, it should be that they should have listened to me and went on tour with the Scorpions and Europe!!! The fans that that tour would have drawn would have far more open to new music. But my guess is that they followed the $$$ and went with the acts that they thought would put more asses in seats. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't act surprised that your GH only crowd rejected new material because I told you it was going to happen.

[Eric]

Journey made its bed by packaging up with 2 other nostalgic acts and marketing it as a GH tour. So, in short, that's the type of audience they drew ... fans that wanted to hear songs they grew up listening to. If there's one lesson learned here, it should be that they should have listened to me and went on tour with the Scorpions and Europe!!! The fans that that tour would have drawn would have far more open to new music. But my guess is that they followed the $$$ and went with the acts that they thought would put more asses in seats. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't act surprised that your GH only crowd rejected new material because I told you it was going to happen.

Yep..what he said.

Let me also add that nobody knows La Do Da either, so if you're gonna play something rare might as well be new.

Seems to me Management and the Band weren't communicating well enough to let the AIP potential slip through the cracks.

[Yoda]

Journey made its bed by packaging up with 2 other nostalgic acts and marketing it as a GH tour. So, in short, that's the type of audience they drew ... fans that wanted to hear songs they grew up listening to. If there's one lesson learned here, it should be that they should have listened to me and went on tour with the Scorpions and Europe!!! The fans that that tour would have drawn would have far more open to new music. But my guess is that they followed the $$$ and went with the acts that they thought would put more asses in seats. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't act surprised that your GH only crowd rejected new material because I told you it was going to happen.

Yeah, it's kind of a catch 2-2 situation. The money is in touring, and touring behind the greatest hits is always the no-brainer. But, wanting to get your new stuff out there requires more risk and probably not as lucrative of a tour unless paired with the right band(s). I can understand the route they took, but at some point, if you really truly want to move on as a band and have full support of the new stuff, you have to cut the strings tied to the past. A lot easier to do when your type of music is what's "in style" in present day I'm sure.

[brywool]

They were filming the Resonate video in Seattle Friday. I think Neal is correct that nobody knows the material. After "City of Hope" and "Resonate", the crowd was pretty quiet (the only spots in the show where they were). I think if they hated the songs, peeps would've booed em. However, the ones that knew the tunes were pretty obvious as I was looking around the Key. Logically, what Neal says makes sense. If you're in a band, who wants to see the audience sit on their hands with puzzled looks on their faces? But for fans that supported the band by buying the album, it was a drag. My family dug the new tunes for sure.

It's too bad there's not some way they could feature the new record. They SHOULD have it playing as the music between bands. If they're not going to play it, then use that "Captured" audience and play the new stuff, but play it so they can hear it, not as background music.

By the way I LOVED hearing LA DO DA the other night. Everybody always says "Wow, the Rolie version was so great!" Yes, it was, but I'd rather not hear just "Lights", "Wheel in the Sky", and "Anyway You Want It". I thought it a nice tip of the hat to Smith to come out of Deen's solo into that. Guess it was just me. I've heard "The Hits" so many times that it's nice to hear something that I've not heard live since 1979.

Dan... "Europe"!? Really? That's that Final Countdown band ain't it? Yikes, I hated that guy.

[Don]

All things considered, The band should never again complain about not getting airplay. With AIP, they got that along with the chart presence on Billboard.
They just didn't attempt to do anything with it.

[Yoda]

Hey Bry...you should check out Europe's new stuff, really good, heavy and no more eyeliner LOL!

Why couldn't Journey throw in, as substitute of a few tour dates, an evening with Journey where they feature mainly music from the new album? I realize they would give up some profit, as it would only cater to the hardcore group of fans, but that would be one way of getting the music out to the audience in a live setting.

[Don]

Hey Bry...you should check out Europe's new stuff, really good, heavy and no more eyeliner LOL!

Why couldn't Journey throw in, as substitute of a few tour dates, an evening with Journey where they feature mainly music from the new album? I realize they would give up some profit, as it would only cater to the hardcore group of fans, but that would be one way of getting the music out to the audience in a live setting.

When you can drop a quarter of a million dollars on a married woman who's not your wife, why even worry about ticket sales at one or two "Album Showcase" gigs, right?

[brywool]

Hey Bry...you should check out Europe's new stuff, really good, heavy and no more eyeliner LOL!

Why couldn't Journey throw in, as substitute of a few tour dates, an evening with Journey where they feature mainly music from the new album? I realize they would give up some profit, as it would only cater to the hardcore group of fans, but that would be one way of getting the music out to the audience in a live setting.

When you can drop a quarter of a million dollars on a married woman who's not your wife, why even worry about ticket sales at one or two "Album Showcase" gigs, right?

With the album showcase deal, it still requires people to KNOW the album to get interested.
They need to get the songs into retail outlets like Herbie did early on. They need to get them in movies.
They need to get them at their own shows.

I absolutely do not understand why Classic Rock stations don't play new music by those bands. Yeah, it's classic rock which implies old tunes... but is it written in stone that that is how it has to be. Play NEW music and old by classic rock bands.

[Don]

Hey Bry...you should check out Europe's new stuff, really good, heavy and no more eyeliner LOL!

Why couldn't Journey throw in, as substitute of a few tour dates, an evening with Journey where they feature mainly music from the new album? I realize they would give up some profit, as it would only cater to the hardcore group of fans, but that would be one way of getting the music out to the audience in a live setting.

When you can drop a quarter of a million dollars on a married woman who's not your wife, why even worry about ticket sales at one or two "Album Showcase" gigs, right?

What Neal does with his personal life is none of my business... as weird as it seems to me.

No one ever said it was YOUR business, so don't worry.
Schon does seem to relish the moment with his new love though. The guy is doing more mugging for the media's cameras with her than he has done the last three years with the band.

AIP IS getting played and judging by its longevity on the A/C chart, it appears to have been played even more than a lot of new songs from Journey's contemporaries.

[Yoda]

I suppose what it comes down to is that management feels their maximum profit from these classic bands come in the form of greatest hits only, and that new music isn't something that is going to be widely accepted by the larger majority who listen mainly to top 40. You would think in the age of satellite radio where there's a station for just about any musical taste, that these record companies and band managers would change that line of thinking.

[brywool]

I suppose what it comes down to is that management feels their maximum profit from these classic bands come in the form of greatest hits only, and that new music isn't something that is going to be widely accepted by the larger majority who listen mainly to top 40. You would think in the age of satellite radio where there's a station for just about any musical taste, that these record companies and band managers would change that line of thinking.

I think a lot of this is because of radios fractured formatting. They're too freakin' segmented and there's no audience for older bands unless it's older music. Pretty silly and it seems that at some point, unless new tunes are added, those formats will go away because everybody's heard it all.

[Yoda]

I suppose what it comes down to is that management feels their maximum profit from these classic bands come in the form of greatest hits only, and that new music isn't something that is going to be widely accepted by the larger majority who listen mainly to top 40. You would think in the age of satellite radio where there's a station for just about any musical taste, that these record companies and band managers would change that line of thinking.

I think a lot of this is because of radios fractured formatting. They're too freakin' segmented and there's no audience for older bands unless it's older music. Pretty silly and it seems that at some point, unless new tunes are added, those formats will go away because everybody's heard it all.

I keep holding out hope that everybody will get so tired of what is considered "in style" that they'll want to make a huge music change - much like what happened in the 90's with grunge and alternative music. Except, maybe some sort of full circle thing where everybody comes back to AOR style music. I know it will never happen, but man am I so BORED with what's popular nowadays. I recognize a few good artists, but it's like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

[Deb]

With the album showcase deal, it still requires people to KNOW the album to get interested.
They need to get the songs into retail outlets like Herbie did early on. They need to get them in movies.
They need to get them at their own shows.

I absolutely do not understand why Classic Rock stations don't play new music by those bands. Yeah, it's classic rock which implies old tunes... but is it written in stone that that is how it has to be. Play NEW music and old by classic rock bands.

Explain how the crowd at this years Download Festival was singing along to the new Mr Big album songs then? That fact was mentioned in at least a couple reviews and by DrFu who was there. If anything, their new album is probably harder to come by then Journey's new album (Walmart). Their new stuff isn't getting radio play either. Maybe it's cuz they are playing between 4 to 6 new songs at every show, so the songs are getting out there (youtube?). Or peeps just like the new stuff and have bought/downloaded/stole the tunes and actually know the lyrics.

[Don]

I suppose what it comes down to is that management feels their maximum profit from these classic bands come in the form of greatest hits only, and that new music isn't something that is going to be widely accepted by the larger majority who listen mainly to top 40. You would think in the age of satellite radio where there's a station for just about any musical taste, that these record companies and band managers would change that line of thinking.

I think a lot of this is because of radios fractured formatting. They're too freakin' segmented and there's no audience for older bands unless it's older music. Pretty silly and it seems that at some point, unless new tunes are added, those formats will go away because everybody's heard it all.

I keep holding out hope that everybody will get so tired of what is considered "in style" that they'll want to make a huge music change - much like what happened in the 90's with grunge and alternative music. Except, maybe some sort of full circle thing where everybody comes back to AOR style music. I know it will never happen, but man am I so BORED with what's popular nowadays. I recognize a few good artists, but it's like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

This already happened for melodic rock as far as touring goes. The last five years were huge for a lot of the 80s hair bands and what not. I see grunge bands starting to have their second renaissance now.

[portland]

With the album showcase deal, it still requires people to KNOW the album to get interested.
They need to get the songs into retail outlets like Herbie did early on. They need to get them in movies.
They need to get them at their own shows.

I absolutely do not understand why Classic Rock stations don't play new music by those bands. Yeah, it's classic rock which implies old tunes... but is it written in stone that that is how it has to be. Play NEW music and old by classic rock bands.

Explain how the crowd at this years Download Festival was singing along to the new Mr Big album songs then? That fact was mentioned in at least a couple reviews and by DrFu who was there. If anything, their new album is probably harder to come by then Journey's new album (Walmart). Their new stuff isn't getting radio play either. Maybe it's cuz they are playing between 4 to 6 new songs at every show, so the songs are getting out there (youtube?). Or peeps just like the new stuff and have bought/downloaded/stole the tunes and actually know the lyrics.

Same with Whitesnake....they played three new songs at my show and everyone was singing along as if they were songs from 1986.

[Don]

I suppose what it comes down to is that management feels their maximum profit from these classic bands come in the form of greatest hits only, and that new music isn't something that is going to be widely accepted by the larger majority who listen mainly to top 40. You would think in the age of satellite radio where there's a station for just about any musical taste, that these record companies and band managers would change that line of thinking.

I think a lot of this is because of radios fractured formatting. They're too freakin' segmented and there's no audience for older bands unless it's older music. Pretty silly and it seems that at some point, unless new tunes are added, those formats will go away because everybody's heard it all.

Actually, it is written in stone pretty much because of the catalogs and how the royalty payments are structured for these older acts. First things first, the record company has to send the released singles for new music to the stations. The management for Journey, REO, Foreigner seem to only send the material to A/C stations instead of the current adult pop/rock stations for whatever reasons.

Classic rock stations aren't modeled for paying a bunch of different artists royalty payments outside of the legacy catalogs, that's what the other stations that play current music are for. The DJs can't just play what they want. Someone needs to get payed every time a song gets spun. Classic rock stations don't have the budget for all that.

[Yoda]

I suppose what it comes down to is that management feels their maximum profit from these classic bands come in the form of greatest hits only, and that new music isn't something that is going to be widely accepted by the larger majority who listen mainly to top 40. You would think in the age of satellite radio where there's a station for just about any musical taste, that these record companies and band managers would change that line of thinking.

I think a lot of this is because of radios fractured formatting. They're too freakin' segmented and there's no audience for older bands unless it's older music. Pretty silly and it seems that at some point, unless new tunes are added, those formats will go away because everybody's heard it all.

I keep holding out hope that everybody will get so tired of what is considered "in style" that they'll want to make a huge music change - much like what happened in the 90's with grunge and alternative music. Except, maybe some sort of full circle thing where everybody comes back to AOR style music. I know it will never happen, but man am I so BORED with what's popular nowadays. I recognize a few good artists, but it's like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

This already happened for melodic rock as far as touring goes. The last five years were huge for a lot of the 80s hair bands and what not. I see grunge bands starting to have their second renaissance now.

I guess you're right Don. In terms of touring and concerts, the classic bands have had very good luck in the past few years. I suppose I would just love to hear a Journey or Foreigner tune played on a top 40 station at least half as many times as I hear Lady Gaga or Lil' Wayne.

[Yoda]

I suppose what it comes down to is that management feels their maximum profit from these classic bands come in the form of greatest hits only, and that new music isn't something that is going to be widely accepted by the larger majority who listen mainly to top 40. You would think in the age of satellite radio where there's a station for just about any musical taste, that these record companies and band managers would change that line of thinking.

I think a lot of this is because of radios fractured formatting. They're too freakin' segmented and there's no audience for older bands unless it's older music. Pretty silly and it seems that at some point, unless new tunes are added, those formats will go away because everybody's heard it all.

Actually, it is written in stone pretty much because of the catalogs and how the royalty payments are structured for these older acts. First things first, the record company has to send the released singles for new music to the stations. The management for Journey, REO, Foreigner seem to only send the material to A/C stations instead of the current adult pop/rock stations for whatever reasons.

Classic rock stations aren't modeled for paying a bunch of different artists royalty payments outside of the legacy catalogs, that's what the other stations that play current music are for. The DJs can't just play what they want. Someone needs to get payed every time a song gets spun. Classic rock stations don't have the budget for all that.

So, is it that the reason why these classic bands mostly just send their stuff to AC stations is because they feel they would be wasting time and money sending their songs to top 40 radio?

[The_Noble_Cause]

By the way I LOVED hearing LA DO DA the other night.

Easily the highlight of the show for me. On this, and Edge of the Moment, the band really cut loose.

[brywool]

With the album showcase deal, it still requires people to KNOW the album to get interested.
They need to get the songs into retail outlets like Herbie did early on. They need to get them in movies.
They need to get them at their own shows.

I absolutely do not understand why Classic Rock stations don't play new music by those bands. Yeah, it's classic rock which implies old tunes... but is it written in stone that that is how it has to be. Play NEW music and old by classic rock bands.

Explain how the crowd at this years Download Festival was singing along to the new Mr Big album songs then? That fact was mentioned in at least a couple reviews and by DrFu who was there. If anything, their new album is probably harder to come by then Journey's new album (Walmart). Their new stuff isn't getting radio play either. Maybe it's cuz they are playing between 4 to 6 new songs at every show, so the songs are getting out there (youtube?). Or peeps just like the new stuff and have bought/downloaded/stole the tunes and actually know the lyrics.

Outside of America, music fans are more open to new stuff. The bands are encouraged outside of the US to play new stuff. Here, as Jon said in the latest interview, crowds want to hear what they know, or they leave. That's the difference.

[Deb]

With the album showcase deal, it still requires people to KNOW the album to get interested.
They need to get the songs into retail outlets like Herbie did early on. They need to get them in movies.
They need to get them at their own shows.

I absolutely do not understand why Classic Rock stations don't play new music by those bands. Yeah, it's classic rock which implies old tunes... but is it written in stone that that is how it has to be. Play NEW music and old by classic rock bands.

Explain how the crowd at this years Download Festival was singing along to the new Mr Big album songs then? That fact was mentioned in at least a couple reviews and by DrFu who was there. If anything, their new album is probably harder to come by then Journey's new album (Walmart). Their new stuff isn't getting radio play either. Maybe it's cuz they are playing between 4 to 6 new songs at every show, so the songs are getting out there (youtube?). Or peeps just like the new stuff and have bought/downloaded/stole the tunes and actually know the lyrics.

Outside of America, music fans are more open to new stuff. The bands are encouraged outside of the US to play new stuff. Here, as Jon said in the latest interview, crowds want to hear what they know, or they leave. That's the difference.

You've got a point there. Sad, but true.

[brywool]

Outside of America, music fans are more open to new stuff. The bands are encouraged outside of the US to play new stuff. Here, as Jon said in the latest interview, crowds want to hear what they know, or they leave. That's the difference.

You've got a point there. Sad, but true.

Yeah, it's super sucky. That means we're forever going to shows hearing stuff we've heard forever.

ooh, cosmic!

As far as Journey is concerned, I think they should've at least thrown in stuff from Revelation. That album did pretty well for them and I was surprised when they didn't play anything from it during this tour. How does a band move forward if they don't acknowledge the present? I don't think it's a slam on the band so much as the American attention span...

wait, what was I saying? Oooh! Lookit the kitty!

[Saint John]

Outside of America, music fans are more open to new stuff.

This isn't totally true. North Americans are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to new music. The hits are the songs we grew up listening to, partying to, went to proms to, etc. We have a really emotional connection to these songs. In places where they weren't really ever popular on the radio (overseas), the listener is able to listen to the entire album and decide what they do and do not like. They're not guided by memories of radio play, but, rather, the album as a whole.

And that's the difference. Here people demand to hear songs that "take them back" to a different time, and that's an emotional bond that's really hard to break. The foreigners don't have that emotional bond, and are, by virtue of the lack of that bond, able to interchange concert songs without throwing a tantrum. So I don't think it's an "openness," so much as it is a bond ... or lack of that bond. Does that make sense?

[Deb]

Outside of America, music fans are more open to new stuff. The bands are encouraged outside of the US to play new stuff. Here, as Jon said in the latest interview, crowds want to hear what they know, or they leave. That's the difference.

You've got a point there. Sad, but true.

Yeah, it's super sucky. That means we're forever going to shows hearing stuff we've heard forever.

ooh, cosmic!

As far as Journey is concerned, I think they should've at least thrown in stuff from Revelation. That album did pretty well for them and I was surprised when they didn't play anything from it during this tour. How does a band move forward if they don't acknowledge the present? I don't think it's a slam on the band so much as the American attention span...

wait, what was I saying? Oooh! Lookit the kitty!

Not necessarily, all depends which shows. On Mr Big's world tour this year, they still kept the 4 - 6 new ones on the setlist for their US leg of the tour. Granted they weren't playing arenas......HOBs/theatres. But selfishly, from a fan's point of view I much prefer that, that they didn't feel the need (re: $$ ) to package up......and gave their US fans the new music, longer sets and some rare gems from the catalogue. LOL, the US fans are good to go now thanks, they can go back overseas and continue to play arenas.

[Deb]

Outside of America, music fans are more open to new stuff.

This isn't totally true. North Americans are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to new music. The hits are the songs we grew up listening to, partying to, went to proms to, etc. We have a really emotional connection to these songs. In places where they weren't really ever popular on the radio (overseas), the listener is able to listen to the entire album and decide what they do and do not like. They're not guided by memories of radio play, but, rather, the album as a whole.

And that's the difference. Here people demand to hear songs that "take them back" to a different time, and that's an emotional bond that's really hard to break. The foreigners don't have that emotional bond, and are, by virtue of the lack of that bond, able to interchange concert songs without throwing a tantrum. So I don't think it's an "openness," so much as it is a bond ... or lack of that bond. Does that make sense?

Huh? People all over the world have emotional connection to popular songs not just the US. Heck, take Journey or especially Mr Big for example...in Japan....those bands' hits charted there and elsewhere just as well as they did in the US.....in some cases even more so. MB's TBWY went #1 in 15 countries, that's a lot of radios and alot emotional connections in alot of countries. I think Bry is right on the money, the rest of the world is more open to listening to new stuff. North Americans just don't have the attention span and glom onto that one song and don't listen to the rest of the album.

[Saint John]

Outside of America, music fans are more open to new stuff.

This isn't totally true. North Americans are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to new music. The hits are the songs we grew up listening to, partying to, went to proms to, etc. We have a really emotional connection to these songs. In places where they weren't really ever popular on the radio (overseas), the listener is able to listen to the entire album and decide what they do and do not like. They're not guided by memories of radio play, but, rather, the album as a whole.

And that's the difference. Here people demand to hear songs that "take them back" to a different time, and that's an emotional bond that's really hard to break. The foreigners don't have that emotional bond, and are, by virtue of the lack of that bond, able to interchange concert songs without throwing a tantrum. So I don't think it's an "openness," so much as it is a bond ... or lack of that bond. Does that make sense?

Huh? People all over the world have emotional connection to popular songs not just the US. Heck, take Journey or especially Mr Big for example...in Japan....those bands' hits charted there and elsewhere just as well as they did in the US.....in some cases even more so. MB's TBWY went #1 in 15 countries, that's a lot of radios and alot emotional connections in alot of countries. I think Bry is right on the money, the rest of the world is more open to listening to new stuff. North Americans just don't have the attention span and glom onto that one song and don't listen to the rest of the album.

You're missing the point, completely. I just don't think that in Brazil, Spain or Germany that kids were swooning to Open Arms and Faithfully at their proms. You're citing the exception(s), much more so than the rule(s). Japan is pretty much a mini-U.S., as far as music trend goes.

[Don]

A lot of American bands have become famous overseas purely for being ... American. When Bon Jovi was hot in Japan in the early 80s before they blew up in the states, it was more to do with them representing a fashion, a style that just oozed Americana in a country whose youth were trying to experience individualism for the first time. A lot of these melodic acts that are popular in Europe right now are getting a second chance because while they were busy being relevant in the states back in the 80s, the Euros were into other themes at the time, romantic punk, electronica and other genres of music. It's not that the music is better now, it's just in fashion at the moment. Eclipse stayed on most charts for one week only in Europe. It wasn't about the music being great but more so because the album had Journey's iconic 80s name on the cover. Notice how none of the singles charted? It's like Metallica in Russia; the band isn't playing to more than 300k at one gig because of the albums being appreciated more, its more to do with the band representing the west, something the Russians are just now getting to grips with. For many countries, their 80s moments are now, where as here in the states, it's the nostalgia of that era that we feel attachment to.

[Yoda]

A lot of American bands have become famous overseas purely for being ... American. When Bon Jovi was hot in Japan in the early 80s before they blew up in the states, it was more to do with them representing a fashion, a style that just oozed Americana in a country whose youth were trying to experience individualism for the first time. A lot of these melodic acts that are popular in Europe right now are getting a second chance because while they were busy being relevant in the states back in the 80s, the Euros were into other themes at the time, romantic punk, electronica and other genres of music. It's not that the music is better now, it's just in fashion at the moment. Eclipse stayed on most charts for one week only in Europe. It wasn't about the music being great but more so because the album had Journey's iconic 80s name on the cover. Notice how none of the singles charted? It's like Metallica in Russia; the band isn't playing to more than 300k at one gig because of the albums being appreciated more, its more to do with the band representing the west, something the Russians are just now getting to grips with. For many countries, their 80s moments are now, where as here in the states, it's the nostalgia of that era that we feel attachment to.

That makes a lot of sense, Don.

[jrnyjetster]

Let me also add that nobody knows La Do Da either, so if you're gonna play something rare might as well be new.

Seems to me Management and the Band weren't communicating well enough to let the AIP potential slip through the cracks.

Although I do like it when they dust off some surprise deep tracks now and then, you're right, this wasn't the tour to do that. Not when you have a new CD to promote and a limited 90 minute setlist.