Journey album - new date

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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby jrnyman28 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:38 am

Monker wrote:
Neal has been consistantly lying about the release date for almost a year. It even became a standard answer to say a single was to be released "next month". Instead of being honest to the fans and saying there were factors out of his control that are holding up the release of anything,



These are not mutually exclusive statements. Neal gave a release date....AND there are factors that changed it. Just because he didn't SAY there were factors that changed the release date does NOT make the previous release date a lie.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby jrnyman28 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:41 am

Monker wrote:The point is that "Journey" is Schon/Cain. That is all. Regardless of who else is involved, they are not members of the band.


Journey the business and Journey the band can actually be two different things. If the business hires new members of the band they are still members of the band. They just don't have the same responsibilities when it comes to the business...
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby jrnyman28 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:51 am

Monker wrote:
Correct. Which is why the ROR shows were advertised as "Journey with Michael Baird and Randy Jackson". They were NOT part of the band. Watch the intro to the ROR doc to see it yourself.



Are they doing that now? Are they billed as Journey with Arnel Pineda, Randy Jackson and Michael Narada Walden? Not that I have seen, so that would imply the five (six including Jason) are Journey.

We all know that the Rolling Stones are only four of the 17 musicians on stage but the bill just says Rolling Stones. So your argument/example is flawed.


Gideon wrote:
Monker wrote:That is NOT a fact...it is your opinion. And, I doubt very much that if Journey did not have the quality of musicianship they had that they would have been as successful Steve Perry's solo albums were not even close to being as popular as Escape/Frontiers. It was about more than just the singer.


It is a fact, dumbass. Street Talk alone has probably outsold all of Schon and Cain's solo works combined. No one ever said it wasn't about "more than just the singer," merely that the singer is the most important individual element of Journey's recognition.


Monker, I know you were around for the bloodbaths at VH1 and here early on. What they illustrated is how MOST people place emphasis on the frontman/vocals of this band. Your arguments (mine as well) at that time boiled down simply to the "fact" that Journey was more than just the singer. But to the masses it is obviously not that.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby Monker » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:08 am

Eric wrote: The legal stuff, new management and perhaps even producing needs have not allowed anything to be released.


And, instead of just saying that, Neal was saying, "a single will be released next month...." He knew that wasn't true.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby Monker » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:34 am

jrnyman28 wrote:
Monker wrote:
Correct. Which is why the ROR shows were advertised as "Journey with Michael Baird and Randy Jackson". They were NOT part of the band. Watch the intro to the ROR doc to see it yourself.



Are they doing that now? Are they billed as Journey with Arnel Pineda, Randy Jackson and Michael Narada Walden? Not that I have seen, so that would imply the five (six including Jason) are Journey.


But, according Neal's lawsuit, they are not. They are hired players. You can even look up the NoMoTa LLC and see that they are not listed as a part of it. They are EMPLOYEES of NoMoTa. It is just a simple fact.

We all know that the Rolling Stones are only four of the 17 musicians on stage but the bill just says Rolling Stones. So your argument/example is flawed.


I have no idea on how the corporate entity for the Stones is organized. Do you?

For Journey, I have read the lawsuit and I have looked up the LLC serveral times...Journey is NoMoTa (or now I assume Journey Music LLC, depending on who Nightmare granted to license to).

Monker, I know you were around for the bloodbaths at VH1 and here early on. What they illustrated is how MOST people place emphasis on the frontman/vocals of this band. Your arguments (mine as well) at that time boiled down simply to the "fact" that Journey was more than just the singer. But to the masses it is obviously not that.


You are confusing a few hundred over zealous fans fighting it out and a few million who go to the shows and/or buy the CD's. Most people identify with the SONGS, not just the lead singer. That is why Perry could be replaced by both Augeri and Arnel. That is especially true now when we are 40yrs away from the band's peak....it's nostalgia.

Since TBF there has been a legitimate connection to Journey's evolving. Arrival thru Generations was as close to Journey that you could get without Perry. Evolution was mostly a nostalgia trip. Eclipse was a disaster for Wal-Mart, mostly because it was too much of a change from their old sound. Recently, until the firing of Smith and Valory, you had the Escape lineup with Arnel. Now there is going to be a complete shift away from the old lineup, again. Journey is more than Schon/Cain. Neal Schon used to know that.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby jrnyman28 » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:47 am

Monker wrote:
jrnyman28 wrote:
Monker wrote:
Correct. Which is why the ROR shows were advertised as "Journey with Michael Baird and Randy Jackson". They were NOT part of the band. Watch the intro to the ROR doc to see it yourself.



Are they doing that now? Are they billed as Journey with Arnel Pineda, Randy Jackson and Michael Narada Walden? Not that I have seen, so that would imply the five (six including Jason) are Journey.


But, according Neal's lawsuit, they are not. They are hired players. You can even look up the NoMoTa LLC and see that they are not listed as a part of it. They are EMPLOYEES of NoMoTa. It is just a simple fact.


Again, Journey the business and Journey the band can co-exist. Yes, the guys are hired...hired to be a part of Journey at this time. You are stuck on semantics.

Monker wrote:
jrnyman28 wrote:We all know that the Rolling Stones are only four of the 17 musicians on stage but the bill just says Rolling Stones. So your argument/example is flawed.


I have no idea on how the corporate entity for the Stones is organized. Do you?


Doesn't matter. You used Journey's ROR tour as an example to back your view. But it does not equate to today. I was simply equating today's RS to today's Journey. Because Journey the band can be different to Journey the business just as the RS business is different to the band.

The band, for the audience, is who we see on stage.


Monker wrote:
jrnyman28 wrote:Monker, I know you were around for the bloodbaths at VH1 and here early on. What they illustrated is how MOST people place emphasis on the frontman/vocals of this band. Your arguments (mine as well) at that time boiled down simply to the "fact" that Journey was more than just the singer. But to the masses it is obviously not that.


You are confusing a few hundred over zealous fans fighting it out and a few million who go to the shows and/or buy the CD's. Most people identify with the SONGS, not just the lead singer. That is why Perry could be replaced by both Augeri and Arnel. That is especially true now when we are 40yrs away from the band's peak....it's nostalgia.


1st, those "few hundred" were easily representative to the mass audience.
2nd, the nostalgia is focused on the voice 1st. (Hell, IMO that's human nature)
3rd, if the nostalgia wasn't focused on the voice 1st why else did Journey feel the need to replace Perry with singers who can sound similar to Perry? Why else do you think JSS was unceremoniously released?

Monker wrote:Since TBF there has been a legitimate connection to Journey's evolving. Arrival thru Generations was as close to Journey that you could get without Perry.


Arrival? Yes. "Classic" sound with only a little stretching. RED13 only had one song that sounded like "classic" Journey and the mix on the EP let it down. Generations really strayed from the "classic" sound by using so many different vocals.

Monker wrote: Evolution


Pretty sure you mean Revelation?

Monker wrote:was mostly a nostalgia trip.


I dunno, there is certainly nostalgia in the vocals but there was a lot of experimentation in the songs, sounds and styles.

Monker wrote: Eclipse was a disaster for Wal-Mart, mostly because it was too much of a change from their old sound.


True, that change was more drastic. And even though Jon did a lot on it I still feel like he did not support the change which left it unfocused for Neal. Again the mix betrays it some. But the deal with Walmart actually allowed the band to be completely free of restraint for the 1st time. A good producer would have helped immenssely but shouldn't a band make the music they want. It is always the fans' choice whether they come along for the ride or not.

Monker wrote: Recently, until the firing of Smith and Valory, you had the Escape lineup with Arnel.


Which could've been very exciting until it became evident Ross and Smitty didn't care. Smitty started with a 2 year contract. It got extended for the road. But he made it clear from the beginning he was not "back in".

Monker wrote:Now there is going to be a complete shift away from the old lineup, again.


So be it.

Monker wrote: Journey is more than Schon/Cain. Neal Schon used to know that.


Journey is a journey...
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:50 am

Monker wrote:But, according Neal's lawsuit, they are not. They are hired players. You can even look up the NoMoTa LLC and see that they are not listed as a part of it. They are EMPLOYEES of NoMoTa. It is just a simple fact.


According to the Elmo Bros. agreement, everyone is a hired player outside of Perry/Schon/Cain.

Regardless, based on my understanding, Augeri & Pineda were/are paid like equals to Schon/Cain - not dispensable hired hands.

Monker wrote:Since TBF there has been a legitimate connection to Journey's evolving.


This is just meaningless verbiage. Because Ross is gone, the band no longer has a "legitimate connection to Journey's evolving"??!
Wtf does that even mean? :lol:

Now there is going to be a complete shift away from the old lineup, again. Journey is more than Schon/Cain.


Lol. They traded one former Journey bassist for another and brought in a different drummer. How is this any different than Arrival thru Generations? If anything, Randy has a way bigger profile (and better chops) than Ross.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby Monker » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:56 pm

jrnyman28 wrote:Are they doing that now? Are they billed as Journey with Arnel Pineda, Randy Jackson and Michael Narada Walden? Not that I have seen, so that would imply the five (six including Jason) are Journey.


Of course not. They are not going to come out and publicly advertise the fact that Journey is only Schon/Cain. That would be a very, very bad idea.

Again, Journey the business and Journey the band can co-exist. Yes, the guys are hired...hired to be a part of Journey at this time. You are stuck on semantics.


If you want to believe that, that Journey "the band" is more than Schon/Cain, that's fine. It's your choice. But, it's simply not true.
Monker wrote:I have no idea on how the corporate entity for the Stones is organized. Do you?


Doesn't matter.


Yes, it does. You were trying to make some point about the Stones having hired members. But, the truth is that you don't know how their corporate entity is structured. For all you know they could all be a part of it.

You used Journey's ROR tour as an example to back your view. But it does not equate to today.


It directly equates to today because that is how NoMoTa was claiming rights to the trademark of Journey and their ability to fire Smith and Valory. There were "Journey" "employees" and able to be fired. That is how Schon/Cain look at these other players. They are not part of "Journey".

I was simply equating today's RS to today's Journey. Because Journey the band can be different to Journey the business just as the RS business is different to the band.


But, the fact is that you don't know how the Stones corporate entity is structured.

The band, for the audience, is who we see on stage.


I have already said that most people don't care.


jrnyman28 wrote:1st, those "few hundred" were easily representative to the mass audience.


No, they are not. They represent the most fanatic of fans who will go out of their way to find a place to type and argue about things most people really care nothing about. They will make up personas and pretend they are fictitious people, or make up fiction and stories to post, or simply argue because they like to argue. Most fans read things like the VH1 forum and keep their sanity rather than risk losing it by joining in on that kind of madness.

2nd, the nostalgia is focused on the voice 1st. (Hell, IMO that's human nature)


No, I think you are completely wrong. It is focused on the songs. If it were focused on the voice, Journey would have given up 20yrs ago. LRB could not do limited tours without a single original member. Styx would have broke up 20yrs ago. In fact, tribute bands would not exist because nobody would want to see them. It's the songs and the nostalgia that surrounds them that keep them alive - ESPECIALLY with a band like Journey.

3rd, if the nostalgia wasn't focused on the voice 1st why else did Journey feel the need to replace Perry with singers who can sound similar to Perry?


I never felt like Augeri sounded much like Perry. He could sing the songs but I never fell into the "Perry with a perm" bit

Why else do you think JSS was unceremoniously released?


I feel it is because Wal-Mart wanted to rerecord the hits and so Neal dumped JSS and went with Arnel because he could do it better than JSS could.

Monker wrote:Since TBF there has been a legitimate connection to Journey's evolving. Arrival thru Generations was as close to Journey that you could get without Perry.


Arrival? Yes. "Classic" sound with only a little stretching. RED13 only had one song that sounded like "classic" Journey and the mix on the EP let it down. Generations really strayed from the "classic" sound by using so many different vocals.


The point I was trying to make is that Journey could always claim certain roots to the past. They were at their best when they respected that within the band. Today, they have very little of that going for them...and they seem to want to distance themselves even more from it.

Monker wrote: Evolution


Pretty sure you mean Revelation?


Yes.

Monker wrote: Eclipse was a disaster for Wal-Mart, mostly because it was too much of a change from their old sound.


True, that change was more drastic. And even though Jon did a lot on it I still feel like he did not support the change which left it unfocused for Neal. Again the mix betrays it some. But the deal with Walmart actually allowed the band to be completely free of restraint for the 1st time. A good producer would have helped immenssely but shouldn't a band make the music they want. It is always the fans' choice whether they come along for the ride or not.


IMO, this is what you are going to get more of. Neal being surrounded by Yes-men is not a good thing.

Monker wrote: Recently, until the firing of Smith and Valory, you had the Escape lineup with Arnel.


Which could've been very exciting until it became evident Ross and Smitty didn't care. Smitty started with a 2 year contract. It got extended for the road. But he made it clear from the beginning he was not "back in".


NOT MY POINT. The point I was making is they had a legitimate nostalgic connection to the past. I personally know a lot of people who went to concerts specifically because of it. Now that connection is gone.

Also, you are believing only one side of that argument. Just because Neal said it does not make it true. if everything Neal said was truth, you would have at least 8 Journey singles starting last July. What I see with the lawsuits is a pissed off Neal Schon being angry that JTT was stopped in its tracks by Nightmare, angry that he and Jon got kicked out of their leadership roles in Nightmare and replaced by Steve Smith and Ross Valory...and Neal's knee-jerk reaction was to sue them...and make weird claims about a coup and that they were never important to the band anyway.

And, there was a huge missed opportunity with the HOF. They should have released SOMETHING at that time, even if they had to bring in a session drummer and kept Steve Smith for a tour. But, whatever.

Journey is a journey...


And, it became less of one when Steve Perry took over and forced Herbie, Steve Smith and Ross Valory out. And, it is even less of one with Schon/Cain forcing EVERYBODY else out.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby JourneyHard » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:22 am

jrnyman28 wrote:Monker wrote:

Correct. Which is why the ROR shows were advertised as "Journey with Michael Baird and Randy Jackson". They were NOT part of the band. Watch the intro to the ROR doc to see it yourself.



If Perry ever returned to Journey, they would advertise the concert tour as "Journey with Steve Perry" to inform people Perry was back. Does that mean Perry is NOT part of the band? :D
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby Monker » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:30 am

JourneyHard wrote:
jrnyman28 wrote:Monker wrote:

Correct. Which is why the ROR shows were advertised as "Journey with Michael Baird and Randy Jackson". They were NOT part of the band. Watch the intro to the ROR doc to see it yourself.



If Perry ever returned to Journey, they would advertise the concert tour as "Journey with Steve Perry" to inform people Perry was back. Does that mean Perry is NOT part of the band? :D


Reminds me of "Scandal featuring Patty Smyth".

But, no, I think you're wrong. If Perry returned, it would be "Journey featuring Steve Perry". But, in order to get Perry back Schon/Cain would have to give him ownership of the band and sell their souls to Satan. Not sure that would be a good thing. I spose you wouldn't have Jonathan putting his Christian influences in the band any longer...some people may like that.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby ebake02 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:59 am

Monker wrote:
JourneyHard wrote:
jrnyman28 wrote:Monker wrote:

Correct. Which is why the ROR shows were advertised as "Journey with Michael Baird and Randy Jackson". They were NOT part of the band. Watch the intro to the ROR doc to see it yourself.



If Perry ever returned to Journey, they would advertise the concert tour as "Journey with Steve Perry" to inform people Perry was back. Does that mean Perry is NOT part of the band? :D


But, no, I think you're wrong. If Perry returned, it would be "Journey featuring Steve Perry". But, in order to get Perry back Schon/Cain would have to give him ownership of the band and sell their souls to Satan. Not sure that would be a good thing. I spose you wouldn't have Jonathan putting his Christian influences in the band any longer...some people may like that.


It wouldn't be a good thing but Perry coming back would be a gold mine so I bet Schon and Cain would sell their souls without a second thought.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby JourneyHard » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:51 am

ebake02 wrote:It wouldn't be a good thing but Perry coming back would be a gold mine so I bet Schon and Cain would sell their souls without a second thought.


I agree with this. Neal putting together a band that sounds like Raised on Radio R & B Journey is a carrot trying to get Perry back in the band. I doubt his plan will work, but Perry might secretly wish he was in this band.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby JourneyHard » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:53 am

Rumors are Neal and Jon wrote 21 new songs. I hope they aren't all included on the new album or it will take an eternity to listen to the thing. Just use the best 12 songs unless you have Gregg Rolie as a guest on two songs or something. I know that won't happen; so, stick with the best 12 songs.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:40 pm

JourneyHard wrote:Rumors are Neal and Jon wrote 21 new songs. I hope they aren't all included on the new album or it will take an eternity to listen to the thing. Just use the best 12 songs unless you have Gregg Rolie as a guest on two songs or something. I know that won't happen; so, stick with the best 12 songs.


A double album would rule.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:05 pm

Monker wrote:NOT MY POINT. The point I was making is they had a legitimate nostalgic connection to the past. I personally know a lot of people who went to concerts specifically because of it. Now that connection is gone.


Randy's credits with the band extends back to Frontiers. How is that not a legitimate connection to the past???
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby Journey/Survivor » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:49 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
JourneyHard wrote:Rumors are Neal and Jon wrote 21 new songs. I hope they aren't all included on the new album or it will take an eternity to listen to the thing. Just use the best 12 songs unless you have Gregg Rolie as a guest on two songs or something. I know that won't happen; so, stick with the best 12 songs.


A double album would rule.


That's what I would love! A double album, that is.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby Eric » Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:13 am

Monker wrote: IMO, this is what you are going to get more of. Neal being surrounded by Yes-men is not a good thing.


I'm not sure Narada is/will be a Yes man? Randy Jackson either. More likely just on the same page, i.e. wanting to actually be part of an active band.

Monker wrote: Also, you are believing only one side of that argument. Just because Neal said it does not make it true. if everything Neal said was truth, you would have at least 8 Journey singles starting last July. What I see with the lawsuits is a pissed off Neal Schon being angry that JTT was stopped in its tracks by Nightmare, angry that he and Jon got kicked out of their leadership roles in Nightmare and replaced by Steve Smith and Ross Valory...and Neal's knee-jerk reaction was to sue them...and make weird claims about a coup and that they were never important to the band anyway.


You're right we've only heard about what happened from Schon, but if you were Steve Smith would you let someone say you said that you only wanted a paycheck if it weren't true? The things Schon said aren't favorable and if they weren't true I would have expected some sort of response/action?

Monker wrote: And, there was a huge missed opportunity with the HOF. They should have released SOMETHING at that time, even if they had to bring in a session drummer and kept Steve Smith for a tour. But, whatever.


Agreed... and if Narada/Jackson were the drummer/bassist at that time I bet it would have happened. One of Schon's assertions I believe was that he was out-voted to do ANYTHING that wasn't touring the greatest hits. No new music, no him doing new music with any relation to Journey, no variable setlists and even resistance to allowing Greg effin Rolie to perform with the band at the HOF. Journey might as well have gone away after 2015 because they've done jack shit for half a decade. Schon said he would change all that in 2019 and he he now has.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby JourneyHard » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:35 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
JourneyHard wrote:Rumors are Neal and Jon wrote 21 new songs. I hope they aren't all included on the new album or it will take an eternity to listen to the thing. Just use the best 12 songs unless you have Gregg Rolie as a guest on two songs or something. I know that won't happen; so, stick with the best 12 songs.


A double album would rule.


Eclipse was released on vinyl as a double album. Would the new album on vinyl be released as three or four albums?
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby JourneyHard » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:38 am

Eric wrote:Monker wrote:
IMO, this is what you are going to get more of. Neal being surrounded by Yes-men is not a good thing.


I'm not sure Narada is/will be a Yes man? Randy Jackson either. More likely just on the same page, i.e. wanting to actually be part of an active band.


I agree that Narada won't be a Yes-man. He will steer the band into making great music. Well, that is what I hope anyway. Ask Steve Perry and he will tell you a band without a great drummer is dogcrap. So, Narada will make Journey great again. (Not a slam against Steve Smith, but just Narada will bring a new energy to the band.)
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:50 pm

JourneyHard wrote:
Eric wrote:Monker wrote:
IMO, this is what you are going to get more of. Neal being surrounded by Yes-men is not a good thing.


I'm not sure Narada is/will be a Yes man? Randy Jackson either. More likely just on the same page, i.e. wanting to actually be part of an active band.


I agree that Narada won't be a Yes-man. He will steer the band into making great music. Well, that is what I hope anyway. Ask Steve Perry and he will tell you a band without a great drummer is dogcrap. So, Narada will make Journey great again. (Not a slam against Steve Smith, but just Narada will bring a new energy to the band.)


One thing is obvious - Narada, like Neal, loves creating and moving forward. And that's what Journey needs.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby Abitaman » Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:23 am

NC, I still hold Generations in high regard. Really like the songs on it. Production is a little lacking in some spots and I would take it over the last two CDs with AP. I am hoping AP will get his stand out release on this one.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:37 pm

Abitaman wrote:NC, I still hold Generations in high regard. Really like the songs on it. Production is a little lacking in some spots and I would take it over the last two CDs with AP. I am hoping AP will get his stand out release on this one.


Can't agree with this at all. Coming after Arrival, Gens is actually one of the more disappointing sophomore efforts in melodic rock history.
A couple of standouts to be sure (FITH, TPIYH, ABL, OOHW, BTC) and alot of B-sides, filler, and downright crap.

Arrival, Revelation, and Eclipse are all good to great.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby Eric » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:13 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Abitaman wrote:NC, I still hold Generations in high regard. Really like the songs on it. Production is a little lacking in some spots and I would take it over the last two CDs with AP. I am hoping AP will get his stand out release on this one.


Can't agree with this at all. Coming after Arrival, Gens is actually one of the more disappointing sophomore efforts in melodic rock history.
A couple of standouts to be sure (FITH, TPIYH, ABL, OOHW, BTC) and alot of B-sides, filler, and downright crap.

Arrival, Revelation, and Eclipse are all good to great.


My only take is the consensus seems to agree with your sentiment that Generations is "meh", TNC, but when you and others mention 4-6 songs as standouts I feel like that's pretty good?
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby jrnyman28 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:52 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Abitaman wrote:NC, I still hold Generations in high regard. Really like the songs on it. Production is a little lacking in some spots and I would take it over the last two CDs with AP. I am hoping AP will get his stand out release on this one.


Can't agree with this at all. Coming after Arrival, Gens is actually one of the more disappointing sophomore efforts in melodic rock history.
A couple of standouts to be sure (FITH, TPIYH, ABL, OOHW, BTC) and alot of B-sides, filler, and downright crap.

Arrival, Revelation, and Eclipse are all good to great.



I can enjoy Generations just fine. My criticisms are: 1) there's no continuity due to all the different vocals. The experiment was ok and the songs were ok, but it was too much as an entire project; 2) It felt like the Augeri-penned tracks would've greatly benefitted from assistance from Cain. Seemed he let Augeri sink-or-swim. The songs were good in concept but not great in execution.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby JourneyHard » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:12 pm

I remember they handed out Generations at the concert, but Jon expected us to know all the songs. This was the first time I was hearing them when they played them live. Maybe they could give away the new album if you buy concert tickets to their next tour and then people could hear it months before they go to the concert and become familiar with all the songs. I guess only hardcore fans would listen to it.
Generations sounded like Neal and Jon were excited about other projects and did Generations kinda half-assed. With Narada in the fold, he should help keep Neal and Jon excited about this new album, and hopefully it shows in the final product.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:07 am

JourneyHard wrote:I remember they handed out Generations at the concert, but Jon expected us to know all the songs.


How so? Yes, they played a few tracks. Just like any band on tour promoting a new cd.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:08 am

jrnyman28 wrote:
I can enjoy Generations just fine. My criticisms are: 1) there's no continuity due to all the different vocals. The experiment was ok and the songs were ok, but it was too much as an entire project; 2) It felt like the Augeri-penned tracks would've greatly benefitted from assistance from Cain. Seemed he let Augeri sink-or-swim. The songs were good in concept but not great in execution.


They were finally free from Sony and the best they came up with is Ross doing a ZZ Top impression? C'mon. There's no cohesion to the cd. It's all over the place. Neal was involved in the sequencing of Eclipse. I think sequencing is one of the biggest issues with Gens. Starts strong and then peters out. The omission of "Never Too Late" was also a huge mistake.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby ebake02 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:45 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
jrnyman28 wrote:
I can enjoy Generations just fine. My criticisms are: 1) there's no continuity due to all the different vocals. The experiment was ok and the songs were ok, but it was too much as an entire project; 2) It felt like the Augeri-penned tracks would've greatly benefitted from assistance from Cain. Seemed he let Augeri sink-or-swim. The songs were good in concept but not great in execution.


They were finally free from Sony and the best they came up with is Ross doing a ZZ Top impression? C'mon. There's no cohesion to the cd. It's all over the place. Neal was involved in the sequencing of Eclipse. I think sequencing is one of the biggest issues with Gens. Starts strong and then peters out. The omission of "Never Too Late" was also a huge mistake.


Jon singing Every Generation was a mistake too, it’s one of the better songs that Steve or Deen should’ve sang.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby Monker » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:00 am

JourneyHard wrote:I remember they handed out Generations at the concert, but Jon expected us to know all the songs. This was the first time I was hearing them when they played them live. Maybe they could give away the new album if you buy concert tickets to their next tour and then people could hear it months before they go to the concert and become familiar with all the songs. I guess only hardcore fans would listen to it.
Generations sounded like Neal and Jon were excited about other projects and did Generations kinda half-assed. With Narada in the fold, he should help keep Neal and Jon excited about this new album, and hopefully it shows in the final product.


I doubt very much they will give away an album again. Neal had this idea after Prince gave his album away and it was counted as a purchase. So, it ended up charting and going platinum, or whatever. By the time Generations was released, the rules had changed and they didn't count. So, there is no real reason for the band to give away an album like that again.

Yes, I believe Neal was caught up in SoulSirkus and cared more about that and his other outside projects at the time to give Generations as much priority that it needed...therefore, it is lacking in production quality, songwriting (a bit), and is generally a mediocre release.

IMO, Narada is a Yes-man who is just there because Neal knew him and had to fill a spot. How often do you hear of Narada challenging Neal, or any member of the band, to counter their ideas or push things in a defined direction? Hardly, if ever. He basically sits back, plays a Neal clip, and has a "Go Neal!" attitude, and that's about it...a yes-man, a cheerleader doing what he's told, liking what he's supposed to like.
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Re: Journey album - new date

Postby Monker » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:05 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
jrnyman28 wrote:
I can enjoy Generations just fine. My criticisms are: 1) there's no continuity due to all the different vocals. The experiment was ok and the songs were ok, but it was too much as an entire project; 2) It felt like the Augeri-penned tracks would've greatly benefitted from assistance from Cain. Seemed he let Augeri sink-or-swim. The songs were good in concept but not great in execution.


They were finally free from Sony and the best they came up with is Ross doing a ZZ Top impression? C'mon. There's no cohesion to the cd. It's all over the place. Neal was involved in the sequencing of Eclipse. I think sequencing is one of the biggest issues with Gens. Starts strong and then peters out. The omission of "Never Too Late" was also a huge mistake.


No, the best they did was "Faith In the Heartland", which is a great song...and the songs on Red 13, if you are counting post Sony.

It''s too bad Neal did not focus on Journey and was more into starting new bands and recording solo music. Maybe there could have been more songs like that. Like I said back then, which almost got me kicked off BT, Styx was more productive and arguably more successful than Journey at that time.
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