Randy out? Deen in? 2 Drummers?!?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Narada is too busy doing a Whitney Houston TV Special to learn the Journey songs for the concerts.

Proof? Link?

[Monker]

Narada is too busy doing a Whitney Houston TV Special to learn the Journey songs for the concerts.

Or, maybe when he was hired he was told there were no plans to tour until 2022...so he thought he had plenty of time.

But, what kinda moron hires a musician who can't even play his band's songs? That is just completely brain dead STUPID. He should knew the songs before he was hired.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Narada is too busy doing a Whitney Houston TV Special to learn the Journey songs for the concerts.

Or, maybe when he was hired he was told there were no plans to tour until 2022...so he thought he had plenty of time.

But, what kinda moron hires a musician who can't even play his band's songs? That is just completely brain dead STUPID. He should knew the songs before he was hired.

Watching Lolla, I thought he was great.

[Archetype]

Randy has his TV show, he’s a big-name producer, and I’m sure American Idol set him up extremely well financially. Narada also always seems to have a dozen or so studio type things going on. They aren’t with Journey for the long haul, guaranteed.

Idol was almost a decade ago. Does Randy get residuals for reruns? Probably. Whether he's set financially, who knows? As for Narada's studio projects....as already stated, the music biz ain't what it used to be. This may seem counterintuitive, but the easy payday is actually for these guys to tour with a reliable cash cow like Journey.

Idol likely brought him many millions. If he invested even fraction of it reasonably wisely, he’s very comfortably set for life. I really doubt he’s hurting for money at all. I could be off base, but he really doesn’t seem like the type to blow all of his money on stupid shit.

[Monker]

Randy has his TV show, he’s a big-name producer, and I’m sure American Idol set him up extremely well financially. Narada also always seems to have a dozen or so studio type things going on. They aren’t with Journey for the long haul, guaranteed.

Idol was almost a decade ago. Does Randy get residuals for reruns? Probably. Whether he's set financially, who knows? As for Narada's studio projects....as already stated, the music biz ain't what it used to be. This may seem counterintuitive, but the easy payday is actually for these guys to tour with a reliable cash cow like Journey.

Idol likely brought him many millions. If he invested even fraction of it reasonably wisely, he’s very comfortably set for life. I really doubt he’s hurting for money at all. I could be off base, but he really doesn’t seem like the type to blow all of his money on stupid shit.

Or, maybe Randy has opened his eyes over how out of control Neal really is and has simply decided to back off. THAT would not surprise me at all.

[JourneyHard]

Narada is too busy doing a Whitney Houston TV Special to learn the Journey songs for the concerts.

Or, maybe when he was hired he was told there were no plans to tour until 2022...so he thought he had plenty of time.

But, what kinda moron hires a musician who can't even play his band's songs? That is just completely brain dead STUPID. He should knew the songs before he was hired.

It just seems Narada and Jackson are treating Journey as a side project and aren't fully invested. They don't mention they are in Journey. It looks like they are embarrassed of Journey or something. If I were a member of Journey, I would be screaming it from the mountaintops. I would clear my schedule and be ready for all concerts, and not just a major tour in 2022.

[The_Noble_Cause]

They don't mention they are in Journey.

This is a complete lie. Both Randy and Narada made social media posts about Journey as recently as August 2nd and August 7th.

If I were a member of Journey, I would be screaming it from the mountaintops.

That's management's job.

[Monker]

Narada is too busy doing a Whitney Houston TV Special to learn the Journey songs for the concerts.

Or, maybe when he was hired he was told there were no plans to tour until 2022...so he thought he had plenty of time.

But, what kinda moron hires a musician who can't even play his band's songs? That is just completely brain dead STUPID. He should knew the songs before he was hired.

It just seems Narada and Jackson are treating Journey as a side project and aren't fully invested. They don't mention they are in Journey. It looks like they are embarrassed of Journey or something. If I were a member of Journey, I would be screaming it from the mountaintops. I would clear my schedule and be ready for all concerts, and not just a major tour in 2022.

Randy and Narada are not members of Journey. They are hired sidemen. That is all.

[kgdjpubs]

It just seems Narada and Jackson are treating Journey as a side project and aren't fully invested. They don't mention they are in Journey. It looks like they are embarrassed of Journey or something. If I were a member of Journey, I would be screaming it from the mountaintops. I would clear my schedule and be ready for all concerts, and not just a major tour in 2022.

Randy and Narada are not members of Journey. They are hired sidemen. That is all.

...and it's a job. Probably pays more than some, less than others. As a professional musician, I would certainly not going to go to the trouble of learning 20 songs of a band just on the possibility that I might get the job. Once you get it, sure. Always the call for extenuating circumstances and the off/on schedule of musicians recently could be a justifiable reason, especially if you have prior commitments--and everyone would know that ahead of time. But there's no reason to learn every nuance of 20 songs that you'd most likely never play again just for the fun of it....not when there are paying gigs around that the effort spent would result in tangible income.

[Monker]

It just seems Narada and Jackson are treating Journey as a side project and aren't fully invested. They don't mention they are in Journey. It looks like they are embarrassed of Journey or something. If I were a member of Journey, I would be screaming it from the mountaintops. I would clear my schedule and be ready for all concerts, and not just a major tour in 2022.

Randy and Narada are not members of Journey. They are hired sidemen. That is all.

...and it's a job. Probably pays more than some, less than others. As a professional musician, I would certainly not going to go to the trouble of learning 20 songs of a band just on the possibility that I might get the job. Once you get it, sure. Always the call for extenuating circumstances and the off/on schedule of musicians recently could be a justifiable reason, especially if you have prior commitments--and everyone would know that ahead of time. But there's no reason to learn every nuance of 20 songs that you'd most likely never play again just for the fun of it....not when there are paying gigs around that the effort spent would result in tangible income.

If you are Neal Schon, why in the world would you hire somebody to be in Journey, to tour with Journey, if they do not even know how to play the songs. That makes no sense at all. Saying, "I'll learn the songs if I'm hired..." sounds really, really bad. It seems Narada got the job because of his personality, not really skills. He gets along with Neal and Neal needed a drummer.

These guys are sidemen and they are treating the job as such. That is what Journey is, the Neal Schon project. Even Jonathan has a replacement waiting to take over full time on keyboards. If Arnel leaves, they have two other lead singers already in the band. This is what Journey has become....Neal Schon and a bunch of sidemen.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If you are Neal Schon, why in the world would you hire somebody to be in Journey, to tour with Journey, if they do not even know how to play the songs. That makes no sense at all. Saying, "I'll learn the songs if I'm hired..." sounds really, really bad. It seems Narada got the job because of his personality, not really skills. He gets along with Neal and Neal needed a drummer.

Are you suggesting that Schon only hire Journey cover band players that already know the catalog by heart? Really bizarre line of thinking. Musicians learn the material in rehearsal. That's what rehearsal is for. Watching Lollapalooza, I thought Narada was great. The footage is online. If you can find him missing beats or something, please post it.

These guys are sidemen and they are treating the job as such.

Is that why the majority of this album has been recorded in Narada's studio - not to mention Narada personally producing Arnel's vocals while AP is thousands of miles away?

Does that sound like a punch clock Johnny lazily just phoning it in? Stop spewing uninformed bullshit and go join the Perry forum downstairs already.

Even Jonathan has a replacement waiting...

They've had a backup keyboardist since Smitty rejoined. During that time, Cain never missed a SINGLE show. Fuck off with your uninformed bullshit.

[kgdjpubs]

Randy and Narada are not members of Journey. They are hired sidemen. That is all.

...and it's a job. Probably pays more than some, less than others. As a professional musician, I would certainly not going to go to the trouble of learning 20 songs of a band just on the possibility that I might get the job. Once you get it, sure. Always the call for extenuating circumstances and the off/on schedule of musicians recently could be a justifiable reason, especially if you have prior commitments--and everyone would know that ahead of time. But there's no reason to learn every nuance of 20 songs that you'd most likely never play again just for the fun of it....not when there are paying gigs around that the effort spent would result in tangible income.

If you are Neal Schon, why in the world would you hire somebody to be in Journey, to tour with Journey, if they do not even know how to play the songs. That makes no sense at all. Saying, "I'll learn the songs if I'm hired..." sounds really, really bad. It seems Narada got the job because of his personality, not really skills. He gets along with Neal and Neal needed a drummer.

These guys are sidemen and they are treating the job as such. That is what Journey is, the Neal Schon project. Even Jonathan has a replacement waiting to take over full time on keyboards. If Arnel leaves, they have two other lead singers already in the band. This is what Journey has become....Neal Schon and a bunch of sidemen.

You're presuming that these guys are waiting by the phone with baited breath for a phone call. I'm going under the impression that they are professional musicians and if Journey doesn't pick them up, someone else will. It's a tight knit community, and they know each other. At any point, there are x number of bands on tour, and they need musicians. Sometimes, the "solo artist" gets a house band and they play as a group for 20 years or whatever and you are basically dedicated to them (Elton John, Phil Collins, etc). Other times, artist needs someone to either fill in or whathaveyou because they want a new band or the last guy can't go out and do this, and they go out and find someone who can.

It's a personality fit as much as anything (can you live with the person for six months on tour??). On tour, you can't really get away from the others, so if they drive you crazy because of some habit (drugs, alcohol, girls, gambling, insisting on a well done and charred steak for every meal), they probably should be in another band for your sanity and their own.

If you're in a band, you have a shortlist of people that you're interested in should an opening become available. You know what they can do. You know what their influences are. Something obviously clicks and says this person can add something to this band. So when it opens, you go down the list. Here's what we want, here are the time requirements for recording and/or touring. Here is what we can pay you. Here are any other requirements that we have to be able to offer you this job. Are you interested? If yes, great. If not, go to the next person.

If you're at that level, you are skilled and professional enough that you can learn the catalogue fairly fast. Depending on the way Journey works, you are either expected to exactly duplicate what has been done before to the best of your abilities, or cover it well enough and add your own personal touches where applicable. Or somewhere in between. I'm going to guess that covering older material probably is more important than what you can do on newer material, but who knows at this point. The way Perry's FTLOSM band was assembled, it appears to me as if he built a band to make a new album and then when it was done said, ok now here's what we are going to play on tour. Learn it.

I suspect any drummer can play a few of the big songs, since they are popular enough to cover, which is how almost everyone starts. Do I expect a random drummer to know the specifics of something like Mother, Father or something that never got radio airplay? No.

But this isn't the minor leagues. If you're good enough that Journey is going to come calling, they are going to presume you are good enough and dedicated and professional enough that you can learn it. If you already can do it ahead of time because Steve Smith is your idol and you can copy every song he has played on by heart? Great. But it's not likely to be a requirement. Not at this level.

[Monker]

If you are Neal Schon, why in the world would you hire somebody to be in Journey, to tour with Journey, if they do not even know how to play the songs. That makes no sense at all. Saying, "I'll learn the songs if I'm hired..." sounds really, really bad. It seems Narada got the job because of his personality, not really skills. He gets along with Neal and Neal needed a drummer.

Are you suggesting that Schon only hire Journey cover band players that already know the catalog by heart? Really bizarre line of thinking.

No, I'm not.

However, you are explicitly stating that the only people out there who know how to play Journey songs are from cover bands. THAT is a silly and bizarre way of thinking.

Musicians learn the material in rehearsal. That's what rehearsal is for.

I don't think that's true at all. It is to get together and have everybody play together....it is not to learn the songs, especially in Journey's case. You would have more of a point if their most popular songs were not 40yrs old and were a newer band who had songs that are not on a diamond selling Greatest Hits album.

These guys are sidemen and they are treating the job as such.

Is that why the majority of this album has been recorded in Narada's studio - not to mention Narada personally producing Arnel's vocals while AP is thousands of miles away?

There is no album as yet.

Does that sound like a punch clock Johnny lazily just phoning it in?

You are blind to what is going on right in front of you. If they (the entirety of "Journey") were serious they would schedule real studio time, they would hire musicians who can tour from day 1 and not have to learn the songs or be distracted by their latest TV show, they would have scheduled a summer tour, they would have a great single with a professional video instead of something that looks like it's an old episode of Scooby Doo featuring a song by The Monkees. The entire organization is fucking lazy and act like they don't give a shit any more. If this fiasco were on American Idol, Randy would have voted them off...and I won't be surprised if Randy never performs with this version of the band again.

stop spewing uninformed bullshit and go join the Perry forum downstairs already.

Stop believing everything the insane guitarist says or go post to his facebook and twitter pages with the rest of the fanboys that have nothing but good things to say.

Even Jonathan has a replacement waiting...

They've had a backup keyboardist since Smitty rejoined. During that time, Cain never missed a SINGLE show. Fuck off with your uninformed bullshit.

Not so ironically it also started just months prior to Neal going nuts about a White House visit organized by Paula White...he said, "against what we've all stood for up until 2 years ago and Jon changed radically." That was in reference to his marriage to Paula White. You and others went on for months how Jonathan should be replaced. I have no doubt that Travis/Jason were/are there to replace Jonathan in case he has to go...either willingly or forced. Hell, if Arnel leaves, they have two other lead singers in Deen and Jason. That is what Journey is; Neal and a bunch of replaceable sidemen.

Fuck off with your myopic ass kissing.

[The_Noble_Cause]

No, I'm not.
However, you are explicitly stating that the only people out there who know how to play Journey songs are from cover bands. THAT is a silly and bizarre way of thinking.

There were goofs during Augeri's first shows. There were goofs during Arnel's first performance at Vina Del Mar. That said, the Lollapalozza performance was polished and as energetic as I have seen the band in some time. A learning curve is to be expected with ANY lineup changes. Your idea that musicians should know a band's catalogue inside and out, without ever playing it before, is just irrational.

I don't think that's true at all. It is to get together and have everybody play together....it is not to learn the songs, especially in Journey's case. You would have more of a point if their most popular songs were not 40yrs old and were a newer band who had songs that are not on a diamond selling Greatest Hits album.

So if a song is popular, any group of musicians can be thrown in a room and instantly know how to play it?

There is no album as yet.

Nice dodge. If Narada is just a generic hired gun or pick-up artist, as you claim, why is he producing the album and the vocals? Sounds like his contributions are pretty substantial.

You are blind to what is going on right in front of you. If they (the entirety of "Journey") were serious they would schedule real studio time,

What does "real studio time" even mean? Most bands recorded remotely during the pandemic.

they would hire musicians who can tour from day 1 and not have to learn the songs

Plenty of footage online of the past 2 shows. Please find me something - anything - showing the band not knowing the songs. I'll wait....

or be distracted by their latest TV show,

No proof of this.

they would have scheduled a summer tour,

They are in the middle of a run of brief East Coast dates. Many bands are cancelling shows left and right.

they would have a great single with a professional video instead of something that looks like it's an old episode of Scooby Doo featuring a song by The Monkees.

Animation was cool. Song left a little to be desired, but it's a great start by the new band and management team.

The entire organization is fucking lazy and act like they don't give a shit any more. If this fiasco were on American Idol, Randy would have voted them off...and I won't be surprised if Randy never performs with this version of the band again.

I think alot of Journey's contemporaries would kill to be as "lazy" as Journey right now. Live performances at Lollapalooza and I Heart Radio are huge scores by the band.

Stop believing everything the insane guitarist says or go post to his facebook and twitter pages with the rest of the fanboys that have nothing but good things to say.

I express criticism all the time. You have a slash and burn agenda similar to the Perryheads that used to populate this place. Big difference.

You and others went on for months how Jonathan should be replaced.

I'm still feel that way sometimes.

I have no doubt that Travis/Jason were/are there to replace Jonathan in case he has to go...either willingly or forced.

Travis was hired by Jonathan. Jason Derlatka is actually Jon's son-in-law's bff. Once again, you don't have a clue.

[JourneyHard]

It seems at one time or another everybody has treated Journey as a side project. After Trial By Fire, Perry refused to get hip surgery. So, they couldn't tour. Later, Jon and Neal were busy with other projects and half-assed Generations. Steve Smith left the band and then came back for the paycheck. They all did it. So, I guess I cannot blame Narada and Jackson for doing the same thing just about everybody else connected with this band has done in the past.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It seems at one time or another everybody has treated Journey as a side project. After Trial By Fire, Perry refused to get hip surgery. So, they couldn't tour. Later, Jon and Neal were busy with other projects and half-assed Generations. Steve Smith left the band and then came back for the paycheck. They all did it. So, I guess I cannot blame Narada and Jackson for doing the same thing just about everybody else connected with this band has done in the past.

None of these things you mentioned are remotely equivalent....

-Perry's reluctance to tour for TBF came after YEARS of similar tour-shirking behavior.

- Yes, Neal was busy for Soul Sirkus during Generations. But it's not accurate to say that Jon was busy. Busy doing what? Once they started recording, Jon came in with alot of material ready to go.

- Narada and Randy were obligated to do the Pretenders tour. Fans and the band are extremely fortunate they decided to be involved beyond that - with Narada seemingly taking a BIG co-creative role on the new album.

Both Narada and Randy have spoken about what an honor it is to be in Journey. Not sure what more you want. They are not the fan club and they are not PR. When Omar was filling in on drums, were you bitching that he was not doing enough?

[brandonx76]

I completely missed that Omar was in Journey in 2015 - is there a good show from this era that anyone can point me to? Did he do a solo?

one of my favorite drummers. His work on Late Night (Schon solo cd) -"Inner Circles" is amazing / classic track

[The_Noble_Cause]

I completely missed that Omar was in Journey in 2015 - is there a good show from this era that anyone can point me to? Did he do a solo?

one of my favorite drummers. His work on Late Night (Schon solo cd) -"Inner Circles" is amazing / classic track

There's various clips online. He was present for their orchestra show, which I thought was going to be filmed for a DVD. In the long run, they should have kept him over Smitty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2O_8zWo4RY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2O_8zWo4RY

[JourneyHard]

I was thinking about it and Narada and Jackson had to learn 25 NEW Journey songs, and only 12 will make the new album, and they will be lucky if they play THREE of them in concert next year. Compare this to when Jon joined Journey 40 years ago. They played EIGHT songs off of Escape during the tour which means Jon only had to learn eight other songs. Narada and Jackson will have to learn 20 Journey songs because again they will only play at most THREE new songs that they already know. From now on, I am cutting Narada and Jackson a lot of slack!

[Art Vandelay]

I was thinking about it and Narada and Jackson had to learn 25 NEW Journey songs, and only 12 will make the new album, and they will be lucky if they play THREE of them in concert next year. Compare this to when Jon joined Journey 40 years ago. They played EIGHT songs off of Escape during the tour which means Jon only had to learn eight other songs. Narada and Jackson will have to learn 20 Journey songs because again they will only play at most THREE new songs that they already know. From now on, I am cutting Narada and Jackson a lot of slack!

They're well-seasoned professional musicians, not a couple of kids in the high school marching band. They'll be fine.