The music is bigger than this nitpicking (from Not Impressed

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The music is bigger than this nitpicking (from Not Impressed

Postby Ehwmatt » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:49 pm

Well, I just rambled in the Not Impressed thread and it got locked about 2 minutes after my ramble but I'm gonna re-post it if anyone cares to take the time to read my dissertation :shock:

Man, I love YouTube and the internet and all the access it gives me to music and boots and what not, but goddamn if it's not ruining the essence of being a music fan. I thought Arnel's performance was good, not great. I'm not going to sit here and explain why the specific way he sang a phrase exactly 2 minutes and 30 seconds into Edge of the Blade detracted from his performance. I'm 21 and I have musically come of age in this digital age and it sometimes saddens me - I know people went to CSNY concerts where the guys were so loaded off of coke they had nosebleeds while they were playing and people still had a hell of a good time. Now we're sitting here debating whether or not Arnel properly pronounced a consonant? Man. I used to get roped into listening to people who are overly critical of every YouTube clip, every bootleg, every slip-up. Don't we go to concerts to HAVE FUN?

As the years go by and almost all the concerts I go to feature members that are at least middle aged, if not fast approaching Social Security eligibility and not getting younger, I've seen enough bands tune down 1/2 a step or a full step so the aging vocalist can make it through the show without keeling over, slow the tempos down so the guitarist can keep up on that once-blazing solo he recorded, heard the harmonies canned and played through a backing tape because the backing vocalists can't hit the notes anymore, so on and so forth. The point is, live shows aren't perfect, especially as the guys get older. Unless the guys are just absolutely terrible (see: drunk Eddie from the last Van Hagar tour), I'm grateful I'll be able to say I saw some of my all-time favorite/most influential musicians play some of my favorite music, and Journey is no exception, even if the mighty Perry isn't fronting the band. Some of you may honestly not be able to stand hearing Arnel's take on the classics now or ever, and that's fine. But give it a chance, and certainly don't let a missed consonant in the chorus of Open Arms keep you away from having fun.

As Journey goes, I am grateful to hear someone do most of the songs justice (Stone In Love was bad, I must agree) and hear and see the fretboard work of the man who made me dust off the guitar that had been idle in its stand until I saw him play when I was 16 - Neal. I guess somewhere in this rambling, I think my point is some of you need to take a step back and realize that the music is bigger than a missed consonant or even an entire butchered song in a live set, and certainly bigger than any of the band members' personalities/actions. By all reports, Don Henley is one of the biggest dickheads in the biz, but that doesn't mean I won't shell out good money to go see The Eagles or Henley solo and listen to any and all new stuff he puts out. I won't even panic when I realize Henley plays all his older stuff a full step down from the original studio key anymore. The music is bigger than that.

Give Arnel a chance, I think he'll only get better. He's got a shitload of talent and hopefully a lot of upside. It's impossible to predict the latter, but let's hope for the best. Maybe you won't ever like him, maybe you won't ever go see Journey until JSS, Jeremy, Perry, Augeri, or whoever your preferred flavor is manning the mic. But give the man a chance past his first performance on a shitty YouTube bootleg video. Some of you have been fans for 30+ years and cite the "legacy." Wouldn't it be worth giving the remaining guys WILLING to go out and play the music the chance to do some justice to that legacy and keep a three decade tradition alive? Doesn't the music deserve a bigger chance than one green night broadcast over a far from perfect medium? Think about it. If this post sounds preachy, it's because I guess it is. I just would hate to see any of you get cheated out of having FUN at what I still believe will be a great concert when it comes my way. ProgRocker said it best, Journey is the sum of the parts. Not just Arnel, JSS, Augeri, or even Perry. Holy shit this is long.
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Postby RumTumJM » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:01 pm

AMEN!!

Arnel, to me at least, seemed to really good job on the few clips I saw. Plus, I agree he will only get better. I look forward to checking them out this summer with Heart & Cheap Trick.

I think we shoud all be greatful there still is a Journey, there will come a day when there will only be total, 5 memeber cover bands.

And, NO, that is not meant to discredit Perry in anyway. Of course he will always be tops when it comes to Journey. (Just to clarify - LOL!!)
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Postby texafana » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:30 pm

Dude...why the long rant? Peeps here love to bash, get used to it. I know for a FACT alot of the bashers here either have already bought tickets, or will be first in line to buy ticks when Journey comes to their town. Journey is STILL....STILL..the band people hate to love and love to hate! They always have been and always will! Hell, even if Steve P came back, there would be the same level of bashing going on around here. It's just the nature of the beast. ;)
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Postby Just Sara » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:33 pm

texafana wrote:I know for a FACT alot of the bashers here either have already bought tickets, or will be first in line to buy ticks when Journey comes to their town.



hehe
funny cuz it's true
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Postby Fire99 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:24 pm

Well personally im in no camp.... so to speak.
I'm a bit of a 'new fan' when it comes to Journey as i've only really listened to a great deal of their stuff over the past year or so (other than the obvious 'Mass Airplay' hits.) I certainly commented on the whole J.S.S. incident and to be fair it has not made me a great fan of the Journey 'Circus' and perhaps the personalities that currently exist in the band.

However, concerning Arnel Pineda, i've watched the clips etc and to be honest i've not seen him in person so can only comment so far, but from what i've seen he doesnt do it for me.
Firstly as well pointed out in the Original Post, it has nothing to do with his diction or country of origin or even the fact he isnt Steve Perry. I don't have the history with Journey to put Steve Perry on some kind of pedestall.

However as it stands, to me, the vibe is just wrong. It reminds me too much of when INXS were looking for a new singer on that tv show or that super-group thing with Tommy Lee. To me it just looks like a well established band with some young guy with a great voice going through the motions..
There is no specific scientific reason or anything personal.. just how it looks to me..

I wish Arnel Pineda alot of luck as i'd love to be in his shoes and he seems a nice guy with a great voice but at the moment it just doesnt work for me..

rgds,

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Postby ohsherrie » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:41 pm

Just Sara wrote:
texafana wrote:I know for a FACT alot of the bashers here either have already bought tickets, or will be first in line to buy ticks when Journey comes to their town.



hehe
funny cuz it's true



No, actually it's not true at all. Most of us who aren't accepting this just because it has the name Journey mean exactly what we say. We communicate with each other in places other than this board, whereas neither of you really knows us at all.
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Postby youkeepmewaiting » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:53 pm

ohsherrie wrote:
Just Sara wrote:
texafana wrote:I know for a FACT alot of the bashers here either have already bought tickets, or will be first in line to buy ticks when Journey comes to their town.



hehe
funny cuz it's true



No, actually it's not true at all. Most of us who aren't accepting this just because it has the name Journey mean exactly what we say. We communicate with each other in places other than this board, whereas neither of you really knows us at all.



Maybe .. just maybe .. the posted wasnt reffering to you?
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Postby Saint John » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:55 pm

youkeepmewaiting wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Just Sara wrote:
texafana wrote:I know for a FACT alot of the bashers here either have already bought tickets, or will be first in line to buy ticks when Journey comes to their town.



hehe
funny cuz it's true



No, actually it's not true at all. Most of us who aren't accepting this just because it has the name Journey mean exactly what we say. We communicate with each other in places other than this board, whereas neither of you really knows us at all.



Maybe .. just maybe .. the posted wasnt reffering to you?


I was going to point that out to that egotistical bitch, but she, like a few others, seems to think that there is no world outside of their little impotent playground.
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Re: The music is bigger than this nitpicking (from Not Impre

Postby Moon Beam » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:09 am

Ehwmatt wrote:Don't we go to concerts to HAVE FUN?


That's why I go and can always be seen partaking in the show with my full self.
I also love seeing others do the same.





Ehwmatt wrote:By all reports, Don Henley is one of the biggest dickheads in the biz, but that doesn't mean I won't shell out good money to go see The Eagles or Henley solo and listen to any and all new stuff he puts out. I won't even panic when I realize Henley plays all his older stuff a full step down from the original studio key anymore.


Well put :lol:
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Postby Ehwmatt » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:50 am

I guess I should add that my post wasn't directed towards anyone in particular and it doesn't even pertain to Journey alone. The overanalyzing of live performances, especially on the basis of grainy YouTube footage, is now rampant. The comments about vibe are duly noted and I can't say I totally disagree either. But I do think there are some people (and NOT everyone who dislikes Arnel falls into this category) that might as well have watched the first bootleg with their ears stapled shut. Their judgments were made long ago. Don't overanalyze it, go to have fun (everyone at the notorious botched "Jump" show from October or whenever seemed to say they had fun in spite of it...). If it doesn't do it for you, fine, and one is certainly entitled to say why. It just sounds like a lot of the detractors just opened the avi file with pen and notebook in hand to record every flaw in the show to relate later. On a similar note, to sit here and say you'd rather see Frontiers is just absurd. It's akin to saying I'd rather go see 1964 than go catch Paul's solo show, no offense to 1964 or Frontiers, who are both remarkable cover bands in their own right.
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Postby ohsherrie » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:56 am

youkeepmewaiting wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Just Sara wrote:
texafana wrote:I know for a FACT alot of the bashers here either have already bought tickets, or will be first in line to buy ticks when Journey comes to their town.



hehe
funny cuz it's true



No, actually it's not true at all. Most of us who aren't accepting this just because it has the name Journey mean exactly what we say. We communicate with each other in places other than this board, whereas neither of you really knows us at all.



Maybe .. just maybe .. the posted wasnt reffering to you?


Then maybe people should be more specific about who they're referring to as "most of the bashers". Since I seem to have been the primary target on here for the last several days I think I had every right to assume I was considered to be one of the bashers.
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Postby strangegrey » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:59 am

texafana wrote:I know for a FACT alot of the bashers here either have already bought tickets, or will be first in line to buy ticks when Journey comes to their town.


Oh come off it. You mouth still stinks of the shit you ate for breakfast.

There are *plenty* of people that don't believe in this fraud anymore to actually go see it. I, for one, haven't paid for anything Journey since late 2001. I'm not going to fucking start with the fraud they've got on the stage now... :roll:
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Postby Arkansas » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:18 am

Dude, relax. Don't take yourself or anyone so darned seriously. The internet and most of the 'info' out here should be laughed at daily. (It's better for your heart in the long run.)

Btw, YouTube isn't ruining music or the concert experience, it's simply helping to expose the truth in it. Critical thinking forces the professional musician to be truer to his/her craft and not attempt to pawn off crap to the fans. It's about integrity. Bottom line is, if Journey, or any band, is all that and a bag of chips, then they damned well better prove it every single show. And the upcoming studio release has absolutely got to be spectacularly perfect. It will get picked apart seven ways from Sunday. Bank on it.

Also, all of this isn't bashing at all. It's feeback. It's telling the band what we like and dislike. I would think that the band would want to hear it.


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Postby mistiejourney » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:32 am

strangegrey wrote:
texafana wrote:I know for a FACT alot of the bashers here either have already bought tickets, or will be first in line to buy ticks when Journey comes to their town.


Oh come off it. You mouth still stinks of the shit you ate for breakfast.

There are *plenty* of people that don't believe in this fraud anymore to actually go see it. I, for one, haven't paid for anything Journey since late 2001. I'm not going to fucking start with the fraud they've got on the stage now... :roll:


I honestly have zero desire to go see Journey with Arnel, and will not pay to do so. I'm not a basher (I don't think), Arnel just does not bring anything new to the table for me personally. He sure is having a blast and I'm enjoying everyone being excited for him, but I just have better things to do than go see the same songs I've heard for the last ten years by a fourth front-man (particularly when I thought the third one was exceptional *cough-Soto-cough* :D )

I will listen to new songs and judge them on their own merits - actually it's the only way to be able to appreciate Arnel without all the emotional baggage that comes with being a fan of this band.

And, if I may, just for the record.....as far as I am concerned, this stopped being about Perry a looooooong time ago and then Journey decided they wanted to sound like their "legacy", meaning a Perry-esque singer, thereby bringing Perry back into the forefront of the debate again.

I like Augeri and I LOVED Soto and was so far past caring if Perry were fronting the band, I couldn't even see him in the rear-view mirror.

Journey is responsible for the comparisons and the re-immersion of Perry into the discussion. They can't let him go emotionally.

They have the talent to do major new things. They don't have the ambition to do it.

Ah, enough of my ramblings.....
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Postby ohsherrie » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:39 am

Arkansas wrote:
Also, all of this isn't bashing at all. It's feeback. It's telling the band what we like and dislike. I would think that the band would want to hear it.


later~


No, that's the way it should be, but to many of the people(mostly newbies from out of nowhere, but even a few of the regular denizens) on this board now, if you're not an Arnelian or aren't willing to fall in like sheep for the shearing with whatever that band does simply because they have the name Journey, you're a basher.

No desenting opinions or negative criticism is allowed. They will muster their troops and try their best to beat you into compliance.

But you'll still be the basher.

If they can't beat you into argeement with their point of view using arguments relevant to the topic, they will resort to personal attacks on your credibility, integrity, ethics, morals, weight, age, and friends.

But you'll still be the basher.

And they complain that the political threads get nasty. :roll:
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Postby Red13JoePa » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:45 am

:cry:

Que the violins
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Postby FishinMagician » Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:59 am

ohsherrie wrote:
youkeepmewaiting wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Just Sara wrote:
texafana wrote:I know for a FACT alot of the bashers here either have already bought tickets, or will be first in line to buy ticks when Journey comes to their town.



hehe
funny cuz it's true



No, actually it's not true at all. Most of us who aren't accepting this just because it has the name Journey mean exactly what we say. We communicate with each other in places other than this board, whereas neither of you really knows us at all.



Maybe .. just maybe .. the posted wasnt reffering to you?


Then maybe people should be more specific about who they're referring to as "most of the bashers". Since I seem to have been the primary target on here for the last several days I think I had every right to assume I was considered to be one of the bashers.


LOL INTERNET!!
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Postby StoneCold » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:05 am

Red13JoePa wrote::cry:

Que the violins


... and send in the clowns.

No wait, they're already here.

:D
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Postby xflajrnylvr » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:06 am

[quote=

I honestly have zero desire to go see Journey with Arnel, and will not pay to do so. I'm not a basher (I don't think), Arnel just does not bring anything new to the table for me personally. He sure is having a blast and I'm enjoying everyone being excited for him, but I just have better things to do than go see the same songs I've heard for the last ten years by a fourth front-man (particularly when I thought the third one was exceptional *cough-Soto-cough* :D )

I will listen to new songs and judge them on their own merits - actually it's the only way to be able to appreciate Arnel without all the emotional baggage that comes with being a fan of this band.

And, if I may, just for the record.....as far as I am concerned, this stopped being about Perry a looooooong time ago and then Journey decided they wanted to sound like their "legacy", meaning a Perry-esque singer, thereby bringing Perry back into the forefront of the debate again.

I like Augeri and I LOVED Soto and was so far past caring if Perry were fronting the band, I couldn't even see him in the rear-view mirror.

Journey is responsible for the comparisons and the re-immersion of Perry into the discussion. They can't let him go emotionally.

They have the talent to do major new things. They don't have the ambition to do it.

Ah, enough of my ramblings.....[/quote]

Totally agree with this post
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Postby Ehwmatt » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:31 am

People can "bash" all they want and hate and love whoever they like. Doesn't bother me, nor will it influence my tastes. Live performances have never been perfect. Guys have gone out there wanting to fight each other, gone out there loaded on their substance of choice, fucked up their harmonies, missed their cues, missed their changes and I don't think the entire electronic fan base went up in arms about things like a keyboard track being out of tune. It's live, I want some grit and imperfection. Even Perry flubbed notes live from time to time. People are just getting so goddamn scientific about something that's supposed to be fun. That's what bothers me. Not who likes which singer or who's an asshole from the band.
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Postby Greg » Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:49 am

Ehwmatt wrote:People can "bash" all they want and hate and love whoever they like. Doesn't bother me, nor will it influence my tastes. Live performances have never been perfect. Guys have gone out there wanting to fight each other, gone out there loaded on their substance of choice, fucked up their harmonies, missed their cues, missed their changes and I don't think the entire electronic fan base went up in arms about things like a keyboard track being out of tune. It's live, I want some grit and imperfection. Even Perry flubbed notes live from time to time. People are just getting so goddamn scientific about something that's supposed to be fun. That's what bothers me. Not who likes which singer or who's an asshole from the band.



Have you seen the Houston concert DVD? If not, you should pick up a copy. If so, watch it again. The band set a high standard for live performances with that show.
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Postby FishinMagician » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:03 am

Greg wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:People can "bash" all they want and hate and love whoever they like. Doesn't bother me, nor will it influence my tastes. Live performances have never been perfect. Guys have gone out there wanting to fight each other, gone out there loaded on their substance of choice, fucked up their harmonies, missed their cues, missed their changes and I don't think the entire electronic fan base went up in arms about things like a keyboard track being out of tune. It's live, I want some grit and imperfection. Even Perry flubbed notes live from time to time. People are just getting so goddamn scientific about something that's supposed to be fun. That's what bothers me. Not who likes which singer or who's an asshole from the band.



Have you seen the Houston concert DVD? If not, you should pick up a copy. If so, watch it again. The band set a high standard for live performances with that show.


you actually think that is raw and un-edited?? just like the eagles hell freezes over dvd... :roll:
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Postby lights1961 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:04 am

iam just not pumped anymore.. i wish the days of augeri--- at least his voice had the blues sound.. Arnel does not impress me from the you tube clips at all.
Augeri sang it, Arnel is like screaming it... if that makes sense. Thats how lights sounded...
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Postby pinkvelvet » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:13 am

A basher to me is someone who follows everything thats going on with the band( even if they no longer like them ). analyzing each step the band make, and critisizing every little thing that they do on a message board.
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Postby Carlitto H@kk » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:14 am

FishinMagician wrote:you actually think that is raw and un-edited?? just like the eagles hell freezes over dvd... :roll:


Of course the Houston DVD isn't "raw & un-edited" (Thanks SP!).
But you can't "edit or re-master" musicianship, energy and band chemistry
and that concert shows the band in it's prime.
Only the Frontiers-era tours can rival what Journey was back then
and will never be again.
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Postby Greg » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:31 am

Carlitto H@kk wrote:
FishinMagician wrote:you actually think that is raw and un-edited?? just like the eagles hell freezes over dvd... :roll:


Of course the Houston DVD isn't "raw & un-edited" (Thanks SP!).
But you can't "edit or re-master" musicianship, energy and band chemistry
and that concert shows the band in it's prime.
Only the Frontiers-era tours can rival what Journey was back then
and will never be again.


Exactly my point! And, wasn't this a live performance on MTV? The first live concert on the station? I watched the dvd again this weekend and it gives me chills every time I watch it. I watched the 2001 DVD concert not too long ago and even though I liked Augeri, there was just no comparison!
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Re: .

Postby lights1961 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:01 am

pinkvelvet wrote:A basher to me is someone who follows everything thats going on with the band( even if they no longer like them ). analyzing each step the band make, and critisizing every little thing that they do on a message board.


I guess call me one then... I loved the music and still do... just hate what happened to Augeri and then JSS. Will buy the CD when it comes out... just 90% chance of not seeing a show this tour.
and that is sad!! Since 1999 i have been to 1 in 1999 4 in 2001 4 in 2002 4 in 2003 and 2 in 2004. If that is a basher.. so be it.

IAM JUST NOT IMPRESSED with the BAND at its current state.


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Postby Ehwmatt » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:08 am

Greg wrote:
Have you seen the Houston concert DVD? If not, you should pick up a copy. If so, watch it again. The band set a high standard for live performances with that show.


Of course I have, more times than I can count. It's obviously a great performance, but every time I watch it I wish it was Captured that was on DVD and not that show... just cooler songs on Captured. You know, I think part of it is that I listen to Journey for Neal as much, if not more so than I listen to it for the vocals, regardless of who's singing. Hence why Nickel & Dime is one of my top-played Journey tracks lately. So I can handle someone else singing it and still think it's a smokin performance, because Neal has never let me down. I saw Augeri three times and I guess I just got lucky, his vox were fine for me. I liked Augeri quite a lot to be honest... he was the first person I ever saw front Journey. Saw JSS once and enjoyed it just as much. Will see Arnel and probably feel the same. Remember, I was born in 86 so I never really had any frame of reference to judge anybody's performance against The Voice. Live recordings give me an idea, but being there is just totally different. At least for me. I guess it's a blessing for me, since I can see/listen to/enjoy SP on Houston/Captured and still enjoy going to the latter day incarnations of the band.
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Postby FishinMagician » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:54 am

Ehwmatt wrote:
Greg wrote:
Have you seen the Houston concert DVD? If not, you should pick up a copy. If so, watch it again. The band set a high standard for live performances with that show.


Of course I have, more times than I can count. It's obviously a great performance, but every time I watch it I wish it was Captured that was on DVD and not that show... just cooler songs on Captured. You know, I think part of it is that I listen to Journey for Neal as much, if not more so than I listen to it for the vocals, regardless of who's singing. Hence why Nickel & Dime is one of my top-played Journey tracks lately. So I can handle someone else singing it and still think it's a smokin performance, because Neal has never let me down. I saw Augeri three times and I guess I just got lucky, his vox were fine for me. I liked Augeri quite a lot to be honest... he was the first person I ever saw front Journey. Saw JSS once and enjoyed it just as much. Will see Arnel and probably feel the same. Remember, I was born in 86 so I never really had any frame of reference to judge anybody's performance against The Voice. Live recordings give me an idea, but being there is just totally different. At least for me. I guess it's a blessing for me, since I can see/listen to/enjoy SP on Houston/Captured and still enjoy going to the latter day incarnations of the band.


ditto
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Postby FishinMagician » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:55 am

Carlitto H@kk wrote:
FishinMagician wrote:you actually think that is raw and un-edited?? just like the eagles hell freezes over dvd... :roll:


Of course the Houston DVD isn't "raw & un-edited" (Thanks SP!).
But you can't "edit or re-master" musicianship, energy and band chemistry
and that concert shows the band in it's prime.
Only the Frontiers-era tours can rival what Journey was back then
and will never be again.


this is true
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FishinMagician
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