Perry vs. Schon -- this is bugging me

[Rip Rokken]

Maybe someone has pointed this out already, but Neal seems to miss the point of what Perry said in his interview about "not cracking the stone". Assuming both sides are relaying the story accurately, Perry only asked them not to tour as JOURNEY, but to go out and do and play whatever they wanted under a different name. Neal actually first acknowledges that Perry said that, but then says he did exactly that by playing Journey songs with other musicians, which is the opposite of what Perry said.

Sorry -- this has just been bugging me, because I thought Neal had a very valid point at first until I re-read what both said.

PERRY:
So at the end of that conversation, I said “Look, you go call whatever you wanna do with whomever you’ve checked out something else. Call it the J-Boys. Call it anything. But don’t call it Journey, y’know? Because I am gonna get this done, eventually.” ... But in January, Jon told me on the phone, “I just wanna know.” And I said, “Don’t call it Journey. Because if you do, you will fracture the stone. And I don’t think I’ll be able to come back to it if you break it. If you crack it—it’s got so much integrity. We’ve worked so hard. Can’t you just, y’know—not do that?

SCHON:
If you watch the [Behind the Music] documentary on VH1—it’s pretty much one-sided, with Perry, the way they edited that thing, but there was a couple funny things that went down in that interview. He’s saying, y'know, “If these guys wanna go on, I think they should just start something new and not use the Journey name.” Don’t crack the stone is what he kept on saying. Don’t crack the stone. Don’t go out and play these songs with someone else and crack the stone. Well, he did the same thing, way before we did! He went out on a solo tour, a solo Steve Perry tour, where none of us were invited. Actually Jonathan Cain tried to go down and go in and see him in San Francisco and they wouldn’t let him in the building! And he was playin’, I think, nine Journey songs and three of his original songs.

[squirt1]

IMO- they were all out of line and acting juvinile. The fans have suffered all these years . Classic Journey is Journey. Anything else has never sold well.

[Rip Rokken]

IMO- they were all out of line and acting juvinile. The fans have suffered all these years . Classic Journey is Journey. Anything else has never sold well.

To me, "cracking the stone" was canning Ross and Smith for ROR....

[squirt1]

You know RIP you may be right, but SS and Ross came back for TBF and Perry apoligized. ROR went well anyway . SS left TBF when SP wouldn't tour with TBF. Musicians get a little crazy after year especially if they do not have to work.

[LaDoDa]

Don Dokken is one ugly fucker.

Please tone that down.

[Rip Rokken]

You know RIP you may be right, but SS and Ross came back for TBF and Perry apoligized. ROR went well anyway . SS left TBF when SP wouldn't tour with TBF. Musicians get a little crazy after year especially if they do not have to work.

I just considered the "stone" more than the trinity of Perry/Schon/Cain... Ross was even a co-founder of the band. I can't imagine doing that to a couple of guys like that. I mean, what did that other drummer add that Steve Smith couldn't have done? Was he just looking for something simpler and poppier?

[Since 78]

Maybe someone has pointed this out already, but Neal seems to miss the point of what Perry said in his interview about "not cracking the stone". Assuming both sides are relaying the story accurately, Perry only asked them not to tour as JOURNEY, but to go out and do and play whatever they wanted under a different name. Neal actually first acknowledges that Perry said that, but then says he did exactly that by playing Journey songs with other musicians, which is the opposite of what Perry said.

Sorry -- this has just been bugging me, because I thought Neal had a very valid point at first until I re-read what both said.

PERRY:
So at the end of that conversation, I said “Look, you go call whatever you wanna do with whomever you’ve checked out something else. Call it the J-Boys. Call it anything. But don’t call it Journey, y’know? Because I am gonna get this done, eventually.” ... But in January, Jon told me on the phone, “I just wanna know.” And I said, “Don’t call it Journey. Because if you do, you will fracture the stone. And I don’t think I’ll be able to come back to it if you break it. If you crack it—it’s got so much integrity. We’ve worked so hard. Can’t you just, y’know—not do that?

SCHON:
If you watch the [Behind the Music] documentary on VH1—it’s pretty much one-sided, with Perry, the way they edited that thing, but there was a couple funny things that went down in that interview. He’s saying, y'know, “If these guys wanna go on, I think they should just start something new and not use the Journey name.” Don’t crack the stone is what he kept on saying. Don’t crack the stone. Don’t go out and play these songs with someone else and crack the stone. Well, he did the same thing, way before we did! He went out on a solo tour, a solo Steve Perry tour, where none of us were invited. Actually Jonathan Cain tried to go down and go in and see him in San Francisco and they wouldn’t let him in the building! And he was playin’, I think, nine Journey songs and three of his original songs.

Ok I think I see what you're saying. Steve is right because, while he did go out on his own and play Journey music he didn't do it with the Journey name. It sounds like he might possibly have come back if Neal hadn't gone on with the Journey name. And Neal doesn't get that or chooses to ignore the meaning.

[Rip Rokken]

Don Dokken is one ugly fucker.

Please tone that down.

According to statistics, ithere is a 1 in 4 chance that Don Dokken is your real father, so you might want to take a real good look in the mirror before you start calling Don ugly.

[Rip Rokken]

Ok I think I see what you're saying. Steve is right because, while he did go out on his own and play Journey music he didn't do it with the Journey name. It sounds like he might possibly have come back if Neal hadn't gone on with the Journey name. And Neal doesn't get that or chooses to ignore the meaning.

Exactly.... Perry said go on and play the songs, but don't call it Journey. Neal acknowledges that he said don't call it Journey, but then tries to tie it back into playing the songs, which is the opposite of what Perry said.

All this of course is with the assumption that both are relaying their stories accurately.

[Michigan Girl]

Ok I think I see what you're saying. Steve is right because, while he did go out on his own and play Journey music he didn't do it with the Journey name. It sounds like he might possibly have come back if Neal hadn't gone on with the Journey name. And Neal doesn't get that or chooses to ignore the meaning.

Exactly.... Perry said go on and play the songs, but don't call it Journey. Neal acknowledges that he said don't call it Journey, but then tries to tie it back into playing the songs, which is the opposite of what Perry said.

All this of course is with the assumption that both are relaying their stories accurately.

Are we fueling the fire???

[tammy]

Maybe someone has pointed this out already, but Neal seems to miss the point of what Perry said in his interview about "not cracking the stone". Assuming both sides are relaying the story accurately, Perry only asked them not to tour as JOURNEY, but to go out and do and play whatever they wanted under a different name. Neal actually first acknowledges that Perry said that, but then says he did exactly that by playing Journey songs with other musicians, which is the opposite of what Perry said.

Sorry -- this has just been bugging me, because I thought Neal had a very valid point at first until I re-read what both said.

PERRY:
So at the end of that conversation, I said “Look, you go call whatever you wanna do with whomever you’ve checked out something else. Call it the J-Boys. Call it anything. But don’t call it Journey, y’know? Because I am gonna get this done, eventually.” ... But in January, Jon told me on the phone, “I just wanna know.” And I said, “Don’t call it Journey. Because if you do, you will fracture the stone. And I don’t think I’ll be able to come back to it if you break it. If you crack it—it’s got so much integrity. We’ve worked so hard. Can’t you just, y’know—not do that?

SCHON:
If you watch the [Behind the Music] documentary on VH1—it’s pretty much one-sided, with Perry, the way they edited that thing, but there was a couple funny things that went down in that interview. He’s saying, y'know, “If these guys wanna go on, I think they should just start something new and not use the Journey name.” Don’t crack the stone is what he kept on saying. Don’t crack the stone. Don’t go out and play these songs with someone else and crack the stone. Well, he did the same thing, way before we did! He went out on a solo tour, a solo Steve Perry tour, where none of us were invited. Actually Jonathan Cain tried to go down and go in and see him in San Francisco and they wouldn’t let him in the building! And he was playin’, I think, nine Journey songs and three of his original songs.

Yeah, SP didn't say "don't play the songs" to Neal, he just wanted them to not call it Journey until he got back from the surgery/healing period. He cared about the integrity of the band.

[Don]

I think what Neal is talking about is that Steve was out there performing while Journey was still together as a whole. They had finished their biggest and most successful tour ever and Steve was out there doing the Journey redux version. A lot of people talk about how all the touring hurt Perry's voice but he didn't help himself by going out and performing after a world wide tour 6 months earlier. I saw him in Philly for the Frontiers show and I was surprised how different he sounded from when I had seen him on the Escape tour.

[Rip Rokken]

I think what Neal is talking about is that Steve was out there performing while Journey was still together as a whole. They had finished their biggest and most successful tour ever and Steve was out there doing the Journey redux version. A lot of people talk about how all the touring hurt Perry's voice but he didn't help himself by going out and performing after a world wide tour 6 months earlier. I saw him in Philly for the Frontiers show and I was surprised how different he sounded from when I had seen him on the Escape tour.

Ok, that I can understand... but it's kinda to be expected that he would play Journey songs just as any guy that does a solo tour plays his most popular songs. There is no way Perry could tour solo and not play Journey songs -- the audience expects it.

[Since 78]

Ok I think I see what you're saying. Steve is right because, while he did go out on his own and play Journey music he didn't do it with the Journey name. It sounds like he might possibly have come back if Neal hadn't gone on with the Journey name. And Neal doesn't get that or chooses to ignore the meaning.

Exactly.... Perry said go on and play the songs, but don't call it Journey. Neal acknowledges that he said don't call it Journey, but then tries to tie it back into playing the songs, which is the opposite of what Perry said.

All this of course is with the assumption that both are relaying their stories accurately.

Are we fueling the fire???

or maybe figuring out the question of the ages!!!

[wednesday's child]

UTTER Bullshit, Rip.

Roughly speaking, Perry was free to play Journey songs without Neal, Ross, Jon et al, right?
Likewise, I suppose Neal, Ross, Jon et al were free to play those same songs without Pery, right?
Since they co-created those tunes, it's nice that they agree on those terms of usage.
Tuneage therefore isn't the problem, and yes... Neal is intentionally misdirecting us to tuneage as the issue,
because maybe it's too fucking irritating to even bring up what Perry's problem really was.

Here's the big fuckup, then.

Both sides are squared away on tune usage, and it's usage of the band's name that's Perrys issue.

Now, maybe I'm just too stupid to see things straight,
but the band's name "Journey" predates Perry's joining the band.
It strikes me, however much I adore Perry, as pretty fucking arrogant
of him to be even suggesting the band not use its own name.

...as if Journey had ABSOLUTELY no identity as a band before Perry joined.
There are no doubt some here who would argue just such a belief, and hey,
If Hoovering that kind of shit out of Perry's ass for over a decade floats your boat...
then float on...


-wech

[Rip Rokken]

Tuneage therefore isn't the problem, and yes... Neal is intentionally misdirecting us to tuneage as the issue

Actually, that's exactly how it came off to me when I read it. Wanted to see what others thought, though, in case was looking at it wrong.

[wednesday's child]

Actually, that's exactly how it came off to me when I read it. Wanted to see what others thought, though, in case was looking at it wrong.

Yeah, I know.
I'm sorry if I misused your point to springboard some pent-up angst.
Just too much of it, bottled up, have I.

-wech

[Rip Rokken]

Yeah, I know.
I'm sorry if I misused your point to springboard some pent-up angst.
Just too much of it, bottled up, have I.

-wech

Hmmmmmm..... bottled up angst, have you? No apologies need you make!

[wednesday's child]

Argh!!

[Rip Rokken]

Argh!!

Point well taken, though... Journey was built around Schon, and sure, it only really took off once Perry was brought in (against their original desires), but it did exist before. I totally understand how Neal feels about wanting it to continue -- it was his band to start with! When Augeri first joined, he said that there had been other singers before Steve Perry, to bring that point home.

[Don]

Yeah, I know.
I'm sorry if I misused your point to springboard some pent-up angst.
Just too much of it, bottled up, have I.

-wech

Hmmmmmm..... bottled up angst, have you? No apologies need you make!

You beat me to it dude. Did you take that picture in your basement while doing Jedi training?

[Rip Rokken]

You beat me to it dude. Did you take that picture in your basement while doing Jedi training?

Yes, and actually, I was blindfolded at the time -- I used the Force! Turned out pretty good, eh?

[annie89509]

IMO- they were all out of line and acting juvinile. The fans have suffered all these years . Classic Journey is Journey. Anything else has never sold well.

To me, "cracking the stone" was canning Ross and Smith for ROR....

Of course it was a shitty thing to do kicking Ross and Smitty off the band. In the FTLOSM interviews, SP made some self-deprecating remarks about himself and recorded the “apology” song. In the BTM show, he said it was the wrong thing to do, but also said that the music dictated his actions.

I think at the time he was going for a certain sound with ROR and felt that he was not getting it from Ross & Smitty. Perhaps, it was a mistake having SP as the producer, he simply took advantage of the power that was given to him by the band. Ten years later, I see a significance that he wanted someone else (not himself) to produce his 2nd solo album and Journey, the band, chose Kevin Shirley to produce their reunion album.

As hardcore fans, we know SP is a perfectionist and has a strong conviction streak. Rather than condemnation, I have always chosen to try to understand where he was coming from. Absolutely, he didn't say they couldn't tour and sing those songs without him. He did it himself with the SM tour, Neal/Jon formed a group (Bad English) without him, and there was the Storm, which was called a quasi-Journey group.

One could point out that it is selfish and egotistical of SP not wanting to see a Journey without himself in it. However, I have never taken stock in what JoePa or SJ have to say regarding SP's supposedly "sabotaging" the band every step of the way. True, he has never "promoted" the band. But, where does it say an ex-member should help his former colleagues, especially if they have moved on without you.

[Don]

You beat me to it dude. Did you take that picture in your basement while doing Jedi training?

Yes, and actually, I was blindfolded at the time -- I used the Force! Turned out pretty good, eh?

That look on Yoda's face says it all

[stevew2]

There is no "stone" It is a bunch of musicians trying to show how they feel through there music.Egos and attitudes screw up the music, I like the new tunes, plain and simple .Fuck the past, move on .

[annie89509]

yeah, like Stevew says, move on. Everything is water under the bridge now, anyway.

[Rip Rokken]

yeah, like Stevew says, move on. Everything is water under the bridge now, anyway.

That works for me... besides, I have a new controversy I'm hot on the heels of. I just listened to the new disc today from end-to-end, when something strange struck me -- I came to the realization that the entire thing had been lipped! What do you think?

[stevew2]

yeah, like Stevew says, move on. Everything is water under the bridge now, anyway.

I like a rare moment when someone agrees with me, Ill take that moment, and will sleep on it, thanks goodnight,

[annie89509]

yeah, like Stevew says, move on. Everything is water under the bridge now, anyway.

That works for me... besides, I have a new controversy I'm hot on the heels of. I just listened to the new disc today from end-to-end, when something strange struck me -- I came to the realization that the entire thing had been lipped! What do you think?

lol, I'm on the fence whether I want to buy the new album. The only Journey records that I have spent money on are those with SP. I do have every one pre- and post- Perry, but they were bummed off from acquaintances. I'm going to try to keep my streak intact . Of course, curiosity will make me listen to the Arnel songs as people post them.

[ttango1]

yeah, like Stevew says, move on. Everything is water under the bridge now, anyway.

I like a rare moment when someone agrees with me, Ill take that moment, and will sleep on it, thanks goodnight,

Once they sell 500K...for just a little while, I'll make W2 gay.


But dude...we know you're not. We'll see if Journey is 1/5th of the way there by Tuesday