OT: Why is it wrong to be pro America?

[Rick]

I've had the awfullest argument with a Jewish lady on Facebook. Her position is, singing Christmas Carols and praying in school is offensive to her. It goes much deeper than that, but that's the basic gist. I suggested that if she didn't care for the cultures and traditions of this country, then she should hang her hat in another. Now I'm a racist. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!!!

[Ehwmatt]

You can't win with these kinda ppl, just stop talking to them, at least about that kinda stuff.

[wednesday's child]

I've had the awfullest argument with a Jewish lady on Facebook. Her position is, singing Christmas Carols and praying in school is offensive to her. It goes much deeper than that, but that's the basic gist. I suggested that if she didn't care for the cultures and traditions of this country, then she should hang her hat in another. Now I'm a racist. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!!!

Not all of them are so dickheaded, indeed most of them are solid citizens, but....
I barely avoid similar arguments with some of the Muslims back home.
It's as if they didn't know the country has been majority Catholic for ages.

We don't go into ther little enclaves to try and make them conform,
but by Allah, they spread out into every nook and corner of the country,
which then has to cater to their religious sensitivities, or else they start
whining about their human rights, or even go amok with guns or blades.

Pigfuckers.

-wech

[Peartree12249]

Hey Rick, Discussing politics and /religion is a very slippery slope. So before I get drawn into an argument that I'll probably regret. I'll limit my 2 cents to just this post.

I don't think the issue of singing Christmas carols and praying in school is either pro or anti American. I can see how people on both sides of the discussion can be pro-American. I think that we need to have special consideration for Jewish people. Given their history, the jewish ghettos of Russia, central & eastern Europe, polgroms, & the holocoust, I think Christians need to be a little more understanding of their sensitivity re: the subject.

IMO praying in school if it's too Christian focused can be uncomfortable if not down right offensive to people of other faiths or none at all. How would you like it if your kids were expected to turn to the east and pray to Allah? This country was founded on Christian principles by Christians. However it was also based on the concept of religious freedom for all. For me the argument of if you don't like it move doesn't wash. Religious tolerance is what separates the US from other countries. Christianity is not the State religion. People shouldn't have it forced down their throats. Public schools can and should teach kids right from wrong and help to instill a strong moral foundation for our kids. My mother was a widow raising us kids on a very limited income. She still found the money to send us kids to a Catholic school because she wanted us to have a Christian education and a strong moral foundation. If people feel that public schools are not doing the job, they can send their children to a religious school of their choice.

That being said, I also think that we often to go off the deep end in trying to be politically correct and pretending that Christmas and Easter are just holidays and not Christian holidays. We replace images of the baby Jesus and the risen Christ with Santa, reindeer and the Easter bunny. In our efforts to be all inclusive, we've lost the meaning of these sacred days. Somewhere there needs to be a balance. We just need to tone done the rhetoric and try to be a little more tolerant of other people's experiences and views.

[artist4perry]

It sounds more like a lack of tolerence on her part. I would never have a problem with a Jewish person praying or a muslem person praying to Mecca. It is an infringemement on your first amendment right to take away the freedom of expression of religion. Seems these people stand behind separation of church and state. Wich by the way is not on our lawbooks. It was a private letter of Thomas Jefferson to a Babtist Association. They quote it like it was law, but it is not.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" or that prohibit the free exercise of religion, infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to peaceably assemble, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The part in red is missquoted all the time. People do not know history, or have listened to a revisionary version of history. This part: respecting an establishment of religion, was written to prohibit a government established religion, like the Church of England. People forget the part behind the first part, that says congress cannot prohibit the free exercise of religion. But that is exactly what this lady is trying to say.

[steveo777]

Hey, isn't Irving Azoff Jewish?

[Sarah]

IMO praying in school if it's too Christian focused can be uncomfortable if not down right offensive to people of other faiths or none at all. How would you like it if your kids were expected to turn to the east and pray to Allah? This country was founded on Christian principles by Christians. However it was also based on the concept of religious freedom for all.

Yes, this.

No specific religious practice should be officially sanctioned in public schools etc. or we might as well have an official national religion. Kids can pray if they want during breaks but there shouldn't be "prayer time" in class.

[artist4perry]

IMO praying in school if it's too Christian focused can be uncomfortable if not down right offensive to people of other faiths or none at all. How would you like it if your kids were expected to turn to the east and pray to Allah? This country was founded on Christian principles by Christians. However it was also based on the concept of religious freedom for all.

Yes, this.

No specific religious practice should be officially sanctioned in public schools etc. or we might as well have an official national religion. Kids can pray if they want during breaks but there shouldn't be "prayer time" in class.

I don't have a problem with that. But when you can't have a Christmas tree in school, or color Santa Claus that goes a bit far.

I actually had a parent mad because we gave his son a pumpkin to color for the fall, because he did not celebrate Halloween. A Pumpkin for fall. This is where such nonsense goes over the top.

[Barb]

I've had the awfullest argument with a Jewish lady on Facebook. Her position is, singing Christmas Carols and praying in school is offensive to her. It goes much deeper than that, but that's the basic gist. I suggested that if she didn't care for the cultures and traditions of this country, then she should hang her hat in another. Now I'm a racist. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!!!

That's how you know you won.... she called you a racist. When they are backed against a wall, that's where they go.

[Behshad]

Hey Rick, Discussing politics and /religion is a very slippery slope. So before I get drawn into an argument that I'll probably regret. I'll limit my 2 cents to just this post.

I don't think the issue of singing Christmas carols and praying in school is either pro or anti American. I can see how people on both sides of the discussion can be pro-American. I think that we need to have special consideration for Jewish people. Given their history, the jewish ghettos of Russia, central & eastern Europe, polgroms, & the holocoust, I think Christians need to be a little more understanding of their sensitivity re: the subject.

IMO praying in school if it's too Christian focused can be uncomfortable if not down right offensive to people of other faiths or none at all. How would you like it if your kids were expected to turn to the east and pray to Allah? This country was founded on Christian principles by Christians. However it was also based on the concept of religious freedom for all. For me the argument of if you don't like it move doesn't wash. Religious tolerance is what separates the US from other countries. Christianity is not the State religion. People shouldn't have it forced down their throats. Public schools can and should teach kids right from wrong and help to instill a strong moral foundation for our kids. My mother was a widow raising us kids on a very limited income. She still found the money to send us kids to a Catholic school because she wanted us to have a Christian education and a strong moral foundation. If people feel that public schools are not doing the job, they can send their children to a religious school of their choice.

That being said, I also think that we often to go off the deep end in trying to be politically correct and pretending that Christmas and Easter are just holidays and not Christian holidays. We replace images of the baby Jesus and the risen Christ with Santa, reindeer and the Easter bunny. In our efforts to be all inclusive, we've lost the meaning of these sacred days. Somewhere there needs to be a balance. We just need to tone done the rhetoric and try to be a little more tolerant of other people's experiences and views.

With all due respect, Bull.....
Whats next? take these poor peoples past in consideration and stop speaking & teaching English in school and switch to hebrew???

This isnt about the freedom of religion. The christmas songs and everything has to do with christmas is more of a cultural tradition in this country. I have lived in 3 different countries and one thing I have learned is , when you move to a country, you have to respect & accept everything as one package.
This means if you moved to US, you learn the main language , you obey the laws and you adapt to the traditions.
no one is forcing these people to practice the religion . and no one is stopping them from practicing their own religion.

I think its ridiculus that people expect the schooling and society change traditions that go back years , to adapt to THEIR needs. As Rick said, if you dont like it, take a hike. I dont recall any american promising any people from any other nation that they will not only give them the opportunity to live a good life here, but now sacrifice their holidays and tradition just so theyre not offending anyone?

Its very simple. People who move here , need to learn the language, get a job and live life according to this county's rules and tradition. If it does conflict with their beliefs or opinions, then use the return ticket back home, where xmas songs would be the least of their concerns

[donnaplease]

OMG!!! Beshad, I'm your new biggest fan!

Our country was founded on christian beliefs, and the right to express them. It's in our founding documents, on our money, in our courts, and for the longest time was a very prominent part of our schools. We have certainly gone over and above to welcome people from other countries and cultures into OUR land in order to give them an opportunity for a better life. The very least they can do is to be respectful to OUR culture! It takes a helluva lot of nerve to walk into someone's home and tell them that they need to change in order not to offend the new guy.

Fortunately, I still live in a small, rural area where folks are pretty conservative. We don't have the stink about saying "Merry Christmas" and we still sometimes sing religious-based songs in our school Christmas programs at times. IDK what I'll do when (or if) that changes.

[mikemarrs]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.


in my opinion all the political correctness and other stuff is got us on the wrong track.i miss the gold 'ol days.

[WalrusOct9]

I've had the awfullest argument with a Jewish lady on Facebook. Her position is, singing Christmas Carols and praying in school is offensive to her. It goes much deeper than that, but that's the basic gist. I suggested that if she didn't care for the cultures and traditions of this country, then she should hang her hat in another. Now I'm a racist. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!!!

"America" and "Christian" are two different things.

[treetopovskaya]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

[Behshad]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

yea but in your case its cause your decoration is more JSS oriented and less xmas oriented

[StevePerryHair]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

yea but in your case its cause your decoration is more JSS oriented and less xmas oriented

Now you're going to offend the Christians for "Xing" out Christ

[Arianddu]

I've had the awfullest argument with a Jewish lady on Facebook. Her position is, singing Christmas Carols and praying in school is offensive to her. It goes much deeper than that, but that's the basic gist. I suggested that if she didn't care for the cultures and traditions of this country, then she should hang her hat in another. Now I'm a racist. GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!!!

"America" and "Christian" are two different things.

Yeah, I have to admit, when I read Rick's post I wondered 'what does this have to do with being pro or anti American?' I've had similar arguments about Christmas in Australia, the UK, and Germany, and my sister has had the same discussion in New Zealand too. I'd say it's more to do with the commericalisation of a religeous festival that has become ubiquitous; the Jewish woman objecting to it is far closer to the Christian who bewails the loss of Christ from Christmas than an anti-American zealot.

[Behshad]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

yea but in your case its cause your decoration is more JSS oriented and less xmas oriented

Now you're going to offend the Christians for "Xing" out Christ

Just obeying the rules and laws. Learned the abbreviation from this

[Arianddu]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

I can understand hating the music - especially if its a 45 minute tape of 'Christmas Electric Organ Greats' from Readers Digest on a permanent loop (calm place, I'm in my calm place, it's all in the past, breathe the anxiety out and the calm in...) but it's normally the staff who complain


Can you tell I complained when I was that staff member? I snapped the tape in the end and said the machine had stretched it - bastard boss brought out the second tape from an 8 tape set!

[StevePerryHair]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

yea but in your case its cause your decoration is more JSS oriented and less xmas oriented

Now you're going to offend the Christians for "Xing" out Christ

Just obeying the rules and laws. Learned the abbreviation from this

Well that's what you get for learning English from road signs

[mikemarrs]

here a while back some woman in a store jumped on me for whipping my kid in the store for acting up.i barely even swatted my son on the butt.c'mon the world is getting ridiculous.

[treetopovskaya]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

yea but in your case its cause your decoration is more JSS oriented and less xmas oriented

+1

hehehee... }=C))

[treetopovskaya]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

I can understand hating the music - especially if its a 45 minute tape of 'Christmas Electric Organ Greats' from Readers Digest on a permanent loop (calm place, I'm in my calm place, it's all in the past, breathe the anxiety out and the calm in...) but it's normally the staff who complain


Can you tell I complained when I was that staff member? I snapped the tape in the end and said the machine had stretched it - bastard boss brought out the second tape from an 8 tape set!

i think we have xm radio... at least the customers come & go... those working have to hear it ALL day... begins the day after thanksgiving until the day after christmas. }:C)

[Behshad]

here a while back some woman in a store jumped on me for whipping my kid in the store for acting up.i barely even swatted my son on the butt.c'mon the world is getting ridiculous.

If I were you , I'd told the bitch " you wanna raise him , be my guest!". And expecting a weird look and silence from her I'd follow up with " didn't think so,,,, then shut up" ( Adam Sandler style. )

[Maui Tom]

it's way too easy to cry "racist"...I asked the beaner who cuts my lawn...the jap next door who cleans once a week...and the colored guy who shines my shoes if they thought I was racist...

They said no...so I flipped em each a sawbuck and it's all good...

shit...me? RACIST?

saunters off muttering to myself

[Behshad]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

yea but in your case its cause your decoration is more JSS oriented and less xmas oriented

Now you're going to offend the Christians for "Xing" out Christ

Just obeying the rules and laws. Learned the abbreviation from this

Well that's what you get for learning English from road signs

I didn't learn ALL of my English from road signs, here's an example for you

[mikemarrs]

it's way too easy to cry "racist"...I asked the beaner who cuts my lawn...the jap next door who cleans once a week...and the colored guy who shines my shoes if they thought I was racist...

They said no...so I flipped em each a sawbuck and it's all good...

shit...me? RACIST?

saunters off muttering to myself

reminds me of something.manager where i lived asked me what a person was doing next door.i said it was some black guy doing something to the carpet.i got the third degree.a black guy

[StevePerryHair]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

yea but in your case its cause your decoration is more JSS oriented and less xmas oriented

Now you're going to offend the Christians for "Xing" out Christ

Just obeying the rules and laws. Learned the abbreviation from this

Well that's what you get for learning English from road signs

I didn't learn ALL of my English from road signs, here's an example for you

[Babyblue]

Hey Rick, Discussing politics and /religion is a very slippery slope. So before I get drawn into an argument that I'll probably regret. I'll limit my 2 cents to just this post.

I don't think the issue of singing Christmas carols and praying in school is either pro or anti American. I can see how people on both sides of the discussion can be pro-American. I think that we need to have special consideration for Jewish people. Given their history, the jewish ghettos of Russia, central & eastern Europe, polgroms, & the holocoust, I think Christians need to be a little more understanding of their sensitivity re: the subject.

IMO praying in school if it's too Christian focused can be uncomfortable if not down right offensive to people of other faiths or none at all. How would you like it if your kids were expected to turn to the east and pray to Allah? This country was founded on Christian principles by Christians. However it was also based on the concept of religious freedom for all. For me the argument of if you don't like it move doesn't wash. Religious tolerance is what separates the US from other countries. Christianity is not the State religion. People shouldn't have it forced down their throats. Public schools can and should teach kids right from wrong and help to instill a strong moral foundation for our kids. My mother was a widow raising us kids on a very limited income. She still found the money to send us kids to a Catholic school because she wanted us to have a Christian education and a strong moral foundation. If people feel that public schools are not doing the job, they can send their children to a religious school of their choice.

That being said, I also think that we often to go off the deep end in trying to be politically correct and pretending that Christmas and Easter are just holidays and not Christian holidays. We replace images of the baby Jesus and the risen Christ with Santa, reindeer and the Easter bunny. In our efforts to be all inclusive, we've lost the meaning of these sacred days. Somewhere there needs to be a balance. We just need to tone done the rhetoric and try to be a little more tolerant of other people's experiences and views.

With all due respect, Bull.....
Whats next? take these poor peoples past in consideration and stop speaking & teaching English in school and switch to hebrew???

This isnt about the freedom of religion. The christmas songs and everything has to do with christmas is more of a cultural tradition in this country. I have lived in 3 different countries and one thing I have learned is , when you move to a country, you have to respect & accept everything as one package.
This means if you moved to US, you learn the main language , you obey the laws and you adapt to the traditions.
no one is forcing these people to practice the religion . and no one is stopping them from practicing their own religion.

I think its ridiculus that people expect the schooling and society change traditions that go back years , to adapt to THEIR needs. As Rick said, if you dont like it, take a hike. I dont recall any american promising any people from any other nation that they will not only give them the opportunity to live a good life here, but now sacrifice their holidays and tradition just so theyre not offending anyone?

Its very simple. People who move here , need to learn the language, get a job and live life according to this county's rules and tradition. If it does conflict with their beliefs or opinions, then use the return ticket back home, where xmas songs would be the least of their concerns

Behshad, you are so cool and so every right on everything.

[Michigan Girl]

the thing that pissed me off a while back was they were gonna ban santa claus and they couldn't stand in front of a store anymore and say merry christmas because it offended someone.thats stupid.

my store gets complaints every year at christmas time over the decorations & music. }:C/

yea but in your case its cause your decoration is more JSS oriented and less xmas oriented

Now you're going to offend the Christians for "Xing" out Christ

Just obeying the rules and laws. Learned the abbreviation from this

Well that's what you get for learning English from road signs

I didn't learn ALL of my English from road signs, here's an example for you

+1