Eclipse: a truly unbiased review

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Eclipse: a truly unbiased review

Postby STORY_TELLER » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:02 am

Way back when it was announced that Journey was moving on with Augeri as front man, I was on record saying the band needed to take the same route as Van Halen did when Hagar replaced Roth. Halen didn't try to be what they were with Roth. They carved out a new identity. They evolved and created different songs with a different sound, yet still felt like Van Halen.

Journey didn't attempt to go this route -- until now -- and Neal in particular should be applauded for the effort. It's been a long time coming. Don't get me wrong, I understand the reasoning behind the decision. Van Halen did this when AOR ruled radio and MTV was a driving force for record sales. Journey did this when Rock was dead and Neal knew their money would come from touring their old catalog. Very different times. Very different situations. I can only go with what I like for myself, but Neal has to consider a broad fanbase, not just my opinion. Tough to navigate and I don't envy the task.

Eclipse (the good stuff):
Neal was right to stretch out creatively. He simply shines on this album and you can really hear the sincere efforts. I love the darker tone of the instrumentals. Very atmospheric. Very cinematic. I love it on all levels. The guitar layers create a wall of sound, especially in the headphones. Still "Journey" but in a more progressive rock manner. Spectacular stuff. I really think he hit a creative stride on this album.

The bad stuff:
The lyrics are too on the nose. JC used to write in a more abstract artful way that blended the lyric with the vocal melody (or maybe that was Perry's contribution, molding the lyrics to work in concert with his melodic delivery choices). Here the lyrics stand out like they're on top of the songs. Some songs run on and on and on and others are very "Broadway". I never felt Journey was cheesy before but the lyrics make me feel this way about too many of these songs. The album lacks musical consistency. Sometimes they sound like the new Neal approach, others they fall into the Bad English sound.

I don't think much of Deen as a drummer and this album hasn't changed my mind. His simplistic pounding doesn't service Neal's layered guitar work. He's not an artful drummer, but he does have a really spectacular voice. Overall, I find this lineup lacks creative chemistry. Deen's drumming dummies down the sound. Cain's contributions feel out of step with Neal's choices, but here's the nail in the coffin (for me). By and large Arnel sounds like a Broadway singer. His vocal character doesn't mix with the hard rock sound of the songs. He has some shining moments where you go, "ahh that's more like it", but on the whole (to my ears) the former is true. IMO, Deen would have been a better choice to sing these songs. It's a shame he's too insecure to front a band.

Now before the zealots start flaming me, let me make this clear:

I take nothing away from Arnel in the technical department. He's got an amazing instrument and he even knows how to convey emotion with it. His voice is technically spectacular. Much stronger singer than Augeri ever was (in Journey IMO). Arnel is a great choice to tour the Perry era catalog. He sounds great on those songs and I can't think of a more deserving human being to achieve the success he now has. He's had a really rough life and he's come out on the other side while maintaining his positivity. He's a truly gracious kind person. Love the guy. We could all learn a thing or two from him.

My issue is with Arnel is subjective. It's about what I like and I'm not here to play politics (like some others do). I'm not trying to convince anyone to fall in line with how I feel. I'm just stating what I think.

That said, IMO, on new music, I find Arnel is not very inventive with melody and to my ears, there's nothing distinct about the sound of his voice. It's very "vanilla" (bland). In short, I find it lacks style. It lacks character. In fact the only character I hear from Arnel conjures imagery of a 16 year old fronting an adult band and to be honest, it turns me off.

By contrast, when you hear singers like Perry, Lou Gramm, Freddy Mercury, Rod Stewart, Stevie Wonder, Eric Martin, Sting, Tina Turner, David Coverdale -- they all have a distinct style and character. That coupled with a unique approach to delivering a song is what makes a singer standout. Arnel doesn't standout for me on original music. I first felt this way when I heard Arnel sing his national anthem at a Manny Pacquiao fight. He sang all the notes perfectly with a sophisticated vibrato -- all the technicals sounded perfect -- but at no point did he make the song "his own". There was nothing unique about it and that's where the art of a "recording artist" is required to be more than "just a singer".

Here's an example to illustrate my point:
If we were talking about Foreigner, I'd bring up Gramm, but we're talking about Journey, so I bring up Perry. This clip is a live combination of two songs not originated by Perry, but the man simply makes it "his own": Seal's "don't cry" and the Everly Brothers "Let it be me" --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srPnfavydg4&feature=related

Anyone who can take two completely unrelated songs and blend them together to sound like one new song is more than just a singer -- he's an artist -- and that, for me, is what's missing from today's Journey. Journey needed to find a singer who could carve the band a new identity and unfortunately, they don't have that in Arnel.

This sucks for me because I'm not a hater like some others who post here. I want new music from the band. I continue to buy their music. I support Neal's endeavors because I'm a Neal fan. I own everything he's done and will continue to buy his product. Unfortunately I'm just dissatisfied with the product of this lineup and as a result Eclipse will sit in the jewel case along with Revelation, Generations, Arrival and both Bad English albums. (Soul Sirkus grew on me, lol...)

That said, I'm very much looking forward to Neal's two upcoming solo projects. He has amazing chemistry with Smitty and Marco Mendoza and Deen will finally be singing lead on an album's worth of material. These are LP's to look forward to.

All said respectfully, so if you're going to reply, please do so in a respectful manner. I won't respond let alone debate anyone who posts hostility because they're threatened by a differing opinion (cough -- saint john -- cough -- deano -- cough cough -- steveo -- cough cough cough). :lol:
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Postby steveo777 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:47 am

I think you've made your point of what Journey is / isn't to you anymore in the most respectul manner. Great!
Thanks. There is a difference between bashing just to be hurtfull or hatefull, vs. someone saying it's just not
my thing. Huge difference! :D
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Postby YoungJRNY » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:02 am

Good post. Honest and understandable. I, for one, connected to Arnel's voice. You don't sing an entire back catalog of almost every 80's rock band flawlessly and get picked up via-youtube by Journey by not having character to his voice. There are many moments where Arnel's voice touches and wow's me with that IT factor that you look for in a belting front-man and out in the front vocal capabilities. Arnel, from where he was in his tough life until NOW, singing in a bar of 3 people to thousands of people a night in a matter of days is a truly remarkable feat. The man is still learning but wow did he come so far in a mere 3 young years.
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Postby Rick » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:27 am

Very good post and your opinions are respected. I find Arnel's voice a huge compliment, to say the least, to this album. Obviously, not for everyone, but I think Arnel sang his ass off. At times on Eclipse, however, it sounds like he's reading the lyrics as he's singing them, which I find a bit distracting. Other than that, I give Arnel an A, if I had to grade it.
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Postby wednesday's child » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:40 am

Rick wrote: At times on Eclipse, however, it sounds like he's reading the lyrics as he's singing them.


Dead on.
Definitely off it now...
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Postby Don » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:43 am

wednesday's child wrote:
Rick wrote: At times on Eclipse, however, it sounds like he's reading the lyrics as he's singing them.


Dead on.


I think that's where the Broadway Comments from some of the reviews come into play. Tantra and TWIMC are really the main culprits in that regard.
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Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:50 am

I don't hear any hammy Broadway-style influences at all. If we are talking about Dennis DeYoung and MeatLoaf, you may have a point. With Arnel, I just hear a strong tenor who may not have as distinctive a style as Perry. But Arnel's just starting out. Perry continued to blend Sam Cooke's voice into his own as time went on.
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Postby donnaplease » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:20 pm

YoungJRNY wrote:Good post. Honest and understandable. I, for one, connected to Arnel's voice. You don't sing an entire back catalog of almost every 80's rock band flawlessly and get picked up via-youtube by Journey by not having character to his voice. There are many moments where Arnel's voice touches and wow's me with that IT factor that you look for in a belting front-man and out in the front vocal capabilities. Arnel, from where he was in his tough life until NOW, singing in a bar of 3 people to thousands of people a night in a matter of days is a truly remarkable feat. The man is still learning but wow did he come so far in a mere 3 young years.


Definitely agree that this is a great thread and a really good POV. I'm wondering if Arnel's lack of character as it's described might not be due chiefly to his history of singing the back catalog of almost every 80's rock band.... He has spent so much time channeling others that perhaps he hasn't created his own identity. IDK, just a thought.
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Postby Liquid_Drummer » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:36 pm

"That said, I'm very much looking forward to Neal's two upcoming solo projects. He has amazing chemistry with Smitty and Marco Mendoza and Deen will finally be singing lead on an album's worth of material. These are LP's to look forward to."

No shit !! Deen singing most of an album with Neal and Smitty. Oh fuck. This thing is gonna sound more like Journey than Journey but much harder and maybe even progressive. Oh shit. I want this now !!!
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Postby donnaplease » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:28 pm

Liquid_Drummer wrote:"That said, I'm very much looking forward to Neal's two upcoming solo projects. He has amazing chemistry with Smitty and Marco Mendoza and Deen will finally be singing lead on an album's worth of material. These are LP's to look forward to."

No shit !! Deen singing most of an album with Neal and Smitty. Oh fuck. This thing is gonna sound more like Journey than Journey but much harder and maybe even progressive. Oh shit. I want this now !!!


I thought that too. This could be something I can get into!!! 8)
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Postby steveo777 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:40 pm

donnaplease wrote:
Liquid_Drummer wrote:"That said, I'm very much looking forward to Neal's two upcoming solo projects. He has amazing chemistry with Smitty and Marco Mendoza and Deen will finally be singing lead on an album's worth of material. These are LP's to look forward to."

No shit !! Deen singing most of an album with Neal and Smitty. Oh fuck. This thing is gonna sound more like Journey than Journey but much harder and maybe even progressive. Oh shit. I want this now !!!


I thought that too. This could be something I can get into!!! 8)


Does Azoff own Neal's ass outside of work with Journey?

Watch Deen and Neal come up with a really great Journey album outside of Journey. :D
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Postby wednesday's child » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:12 pm

Don wrote:
wednesday's child wrote:
Rick wrote: At times on Eclipse, however, it sounds like he's reading the lyrics as he's singing them.


Dead on.


I think that's where the Broadway Comments from some of the reviews come into play. Tantra and TWIMC are really the main culprits in that regard.


The sad thing is... I don't think it's purely (or even mostly) Arnel's fault.

I think the band (as a collection of individuals)hasn't found itself yet: the new vibe that ALL
members can relate to and excel at. Eclipse sounds exactly like what it's been loudly touted to
be --a step in a different direction, rather than a step forward.

When I heard they were going to rock out on this album, I thought/hoped they would go to boot
camp: strip down the sound to find their collective identity, find their common ground and then
build on it --rather than just pick from a menu of flavors (Oh, let's try a ZOSO) to try out.

A rediscovered (not reinvented) Journey wouldn't necessarily sound radically different, but it
would sound a lot more earnest and heartfelt. Eclipse is a good album on its own, and in several
parts, you can hear it almost coming together, a fresh and inspired performance, but then the
moment passes, andyou fear that's really as good as it can get... because not everyone seems
totally invested in the rest of what they're playing.

JM2
Last edited by wednesday's child on Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby STORY_TELLER » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:12 pm

Liquid_Drummer wrote:"That said, I'm very much looking forward to Neal's two upcoming solo projects. He has amazing chemistry with Smitty and Marco Mendoza and Deen will finally be singing lead on an album's worth of material. These are LP's to look forward to."

No shit !! Deen singing most of an album with Neal and Smitty. Oh fuck. This thing is gonna sound more like Journey than Journey but much harder and maybe even progressive. Oh shit. I want this now !!!


Clarification:

My understanding is Deen is singing lead on a power trio album between Neal and Marco Mendoza, but Deen is playing drums on that material, not Smitty. Marco also sings really well so it's possible he'll be singing lead on some tracks too.

What I heard was Smitty was originally brought in for two progressive rock tracks for this same album, but Neal was so jazzed (no pun intended) on those sessions, he opted to make a whole album with Smitty and pulled in Jan Hammer on that project as well.

So to be clear, we're looking at two albums of material. One is a hard rock power trio album between Neal, Deen and Mendoza. The other is a progressive rock album between Neal, Smitty and Hammer. Don't know if we're looking at two separate releases or a double album package. My belief is the former.
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Postby Don » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:14 pm

STORY_TELLER wrote:
Liquid_Drummer wrote:"That said, I'm very much looking forward to Neal's two upcoming solo projects. He has amazing chemistry with Smitty and Marco Mendoza and Deen will finally be singing lead on an album's worth of material. These are LP's to look forward to."

No shit !! Deen singing most of an album with Neal and Smitty. Oh fuck. This thing is gonna sound more like Journey than Journey but much harder and maybe even progressive. Oh shit. I want this now !!!


Clarification:

My understanding is Deen is singing lead on a power trio album between Neal and Marco Mendoza, but Deen is playing drums on that material, not Smitty. Marco also sings really well so it's possible he'll be singing lead on some tracks too.

What I heard was Smitty was originally brought in for two progressive rock tracks for this same album, but Neal was so jazzed (no pun intended) on those sessions, he opted to make a whole album with Smitty and pulled in Jan Hammer on that project as well.

So to be clear, we're looking at two albums of material. One is a hard rock power trio album between Neal, Deen and Mendoza. The other is a progressive rock album between Neal, Smitty and Hammer. Don't know if we're looking at two separate releases or a double album package. My belief is the former.


Don't hold your breath on any of this stuff getting released before 2012 at the earliest.
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Postby Don » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:18 pm

wednesday's child wrote:
Don wrote:
wednesday's child wrote:
Rick wrote: At times on Eclipse, however, it sounds like he's reading the lyrics as he's singing them.


Dead on.


I think that's where the Broadway Comments from some of the reviews come into play. Tantra and TWIMC are really the main culprits in that regard.


The sad thing is... I don't think it's purely (or even mostly) Arnel's fault.

I think the band (as a collection of individuals)hasn't found itself yet: the new vibe that ALL
members can relate to and excel at. Eclipse sounds exactly like what it's been loudly touted to
be --a step in a different direction, rather than a step forward.

When I heard they were going to rock out on this album, I thought/hoped they would go to boot
camp: strip down the sound to find their collective identity, find their common ground and then
build on it --rather than just pick from a menu of flavors (Oh, let's try a ZOSO) to try out.

A rediscovered (not reinvented) Journey wouldn't necessarily sound radically different, but it
would sound a lot more earnest and heartfelt. Eclipse is a good album on its own, and in several
parts, you can hear it almost coming together, a fresh and inspired performance, but then the
moment passes, andyou fear that's really as good as it can get... because not everyone seems
totally invested in the rest of what they're playing.

JM2


It's a great album but not necessarily a great 'Journey' album. Outside of this forum, I think a lot of people would probably share that same sentiment.
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Postby steveo777 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:18 pm

wednesday's child wrote:
Don wrote:
wednesday's child wrote:
Rick wrote: At times on Eclipse, however, it sounds like he's reading the lyrics as he's singing them.


Dead on.


I think that's where the Broadway Comments from some of the reviews come into play. Tantra and TWIMC are really the main culprits in that regard.


The sad thing is... I don't think it's purely (or even mostly) Arnel's fault.

I think the band (as a collection of individuals)hasn't found itself yet: the vibe that ALL members
can relate to and excel at. Eclipse sounds exactly like what it's been loudly touted to be --a step
in a different direction, rather than a step forward.

When I heard they were going to rock out on this album, I thought/hoped they would go to boot
camp: strip down the sound to find their collective identity, find their common ground and then
build on it --rather than just pick from a menu of flavors (Oh, let's try a ZOSO) to try out.

A rediscovered (not reinvented) Journey wouldn't necessarily sound radically different, but it
would sound a lot more earnest and heartfelt. Eclipse is a good album on its own, and in several
parts, you can hear it almost coming together, a fresh and inspired performance, but then the
moment passes, andyou fear that's really as good as it can get... becausenot everyone is totally
invested in the rest of what they're playing.


Gee, let's try and guess who that is........ :wink:

Neal, Deen and Arnel have their money on the table for sure. Ross seems all in, but
I think Jon is a bit tentative, but he seems to have been that way for awhile.
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Postby STORY_TELLER » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:35 pm

wednesday's child wrote:
Don wrote:
wednesday's child wrote:
Rick wrote: At times on Eclipse, however, it sounds like he's reading the lyrics as he's singing them.


Dead on.


I think that's where the Broadway Comments from some of the reviews come into play. Tantra and TWIMC are really the main culprits in that regard.


The sad thing is... I don't think it's purely (or even mostly) Arnel's fault.

I think the band (as a collection of individuals)hasn't found itself yet: the new vibe that ALL
members can relate to and excel at. Eclipse sounds exactly like what it's been loudly touted to
be --a step in a different direction, rather than a step forward.

When I heard they were going to rock out on this album, I thought/hoped they would go to boot
camp: strip down the sound to find their collective identity, find their common ground and then
build on it --rather than just pick from a menu of flavors (Oh, let's try a ZOSO) to try out.

A rediscovered (not reinvented) Journey wouldn't necessarily sound radically different, but it
would sound a lot more earnest and heartfelt. Eclipse is a good album on its own, and in several
parts, you can hear it almost coming together, a fresh and inspired performance, but then the
moment passes, andyou fear that's really as good as it can get... because not everyone seems
totally invested in the rest of what they're playing.

JM2



This is very much reflective of my own opinion of the need to forge a new musical identity. Van Hagar at it's core still sounded like Van Roth, but not. Journey too still sounds like Journey on Eclipse, but not -- and unfortunately, not often enough. Too many songs fell into broadway or bad english for me. Neal's direction was a good step forward but didn't cross the finish line and I'm just not feeling chemistry between Neal and Arnel. Unless Neal continues to press this direction on the next album, I expect Jon will push back and we'll end up with more bad english material.
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Postby STORY_TELLER » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:41 pm

steveo777 wrote:
wednesday's child wrote:
Don wrote:
wednesday's child wrote:
Rick wrote: At times on Eclipse, however, it sounds like he's reading the lyrics as he's singing them.


Dead on.


I think that's where the Broadway Comments from some of the reviews come into play. Tantra and TWIMC are really the main culprits in that regard.


The sad thing is... I don't think it's purely (or even mostly) Arnel's fault.

I think the band (as a collection of individuals)hasn't found itself yet: the vibe that ALL members
can relate to and excel at. Eclipse sounds exactly like what it's been loudly touted to be --a step
in a different direction, rather than a step forward.

When I heard they were going to rock out on this album, I thought/hoped they would go to boot
camp: strip down the sound to find their collective identity, find their common ground and then
build on it --rather than just pick from a menu of flavors (Oh, let's try a ZOSO) to try out.

A rediscovered (not reinvented) Journey wouldn't necessarily sound radically different, but it
would sound a lot more earnest and heartfelt. Eclipse is a good album on its own, and in several
parts, you can hear it almost coming together, a fresh and inspired performance, but then the
moment passes, andyou fear that's really as good as it can get... becausenot everyone is totally
invested in the rest of what they're playing.


Gee, let's try and guess who that is........ :wink:

Neal, Deen and Arnel have their money on the table for sure. Ross seems all in, but
I think Jon is a bit tentative, but he seems to have been that way for awhile.



I don't know how much of it is choice and how much of it is an inability to get away from the foundation of one's creative influences. It would be like trying to remove the Clapton and Hendrix from Neal or the R&B from Perry. On some level, no matter what, it will always be there. In JC's case, he's just not a rocker at heart, so he would really have to ignore his instincts and blindly follow Neal's lead. I don't see that happening.

More importantly, I feel like JC's personal life really crept into the creativity of this album. From his interviews you can see just how spiritual he is. I mean anyone who says they saw "entities" has a very strong belief system. That's neither here no there. What matters is how it affects the writing, and his writing is SO on the nose on these songs. What he was trying to say overpowered how he went about saying it, hence it affected the art of the writing (IMO of course).
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Postby steveo777 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:58 pm

Has anyone actually got all of Jon's albums and do you listen to them? This guy leads a double life!
Not taking anything away from his talent. Those are beautiful works for sure. Piano with a view is
awsome! Neal is really much closer to rock n roll on his solo projects, than Jon.
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Postby S2M » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:00 pm

steveo777 wrote:Has anyone actually got all of Jon's albums and do you listen to them? This guy leads a double life!
Not taking anything away from his talent. Those are beautiful works for sure. Piano with a view is
awsome! Neal is really much closer to rock n roll on his solo projects, than Jon.


I bought Back to the Innocence, listened to Faithfully, and was on suicide watch for 3 weeks.....seriously.
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Postby Don » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:01 pm

steveo777 wrote:Has anyone actually got all of Jon's albums and do you listen to them? This guy leads a double life!
Not taking anything away from his talent. Those are beautiful works for sure. Piano with a view is
awsome! Neal is really much closer to rock n roll on his solo projects, than Jon.


I've listened to four of them and that's why I can never buy into him sticking it out with this new direction beyond one album. The way its looking so far, he won't have to.
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Postby STORY_TELLER » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:06 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I don't hear any hammy Broadway-style influences at all. If we are talking about Dennis DeYoung and MeatLoaf, you may have a point. With Arnel, I just hear a strong tenor who may not have as distinctive a style as Perry. But Arnel's just starting out. Perry continued to blend Sam Cooke's voice into his own as time went on.


Well, we'll agree to disagree there. Tantra is pure broadway IMO. Arnel is just starting out singing for Journey, sure, but not singing in general. Perry had his own sound/style/character/approach from the get-go. He probably had more Sam-isms early on, but we're talking about about when he was in his teens and twenties. Arnel is in his 40's now. If he didn't find his own artistic approach by now it's doubtful much will change as time goes on. Could be the band will influence his direction but I doubt it will be a great deal different.

It's very difficult to quantify what "character" means in this context. It's not truly definable. It's art. It's sound and at the end of the day, it's subjective. In Arnel's case, I just find the sound of his voice to be very plain. Skillful for sure, but plain. Perry was referred to as a "vocal stylist" for this reason. Style is art and Perry's art blended with Neal's art in a unique way. That blend is what they call chemistry. Just not hearing it with Neal and Arnel yet. Hope it comes, because I want Neal music that I feel like playing over and over and over for years to come. Neal is my guitar God and I keep praying to my God that he delivers what my ears need. :lol:
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Postby STORY_TELLER » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:16 pm

donnaplease wrote:
YoungJRNY wrote:Good post. Honest and understandable. I, for one, connected to Arnel's voice. You don't sing an entire back catalog of almost every 80's rock band flawlessly and get picked up via-youtube by Journey by not having character to his voice. There are many moments where Arnel's voice touches and wow's me with that IT factor that you look for in a belting front-man and out in the front vocal capabilities. Arnel, from where he was in his tough life until NOW, singing in a bar of 3 people to thousands of people a night in a matter of days is a truly remarkable feat. The man is still learning but wow did he come so far in a mere 3 young years.


Definitely agree that this is a great thread and a really good POV. I'm wondering if Arnel's lack of character as it's described might not be due chiefly to his history of singing the back catalog of almost every 80's rock band.... He has spent so much time channeling others that perhaps he hasn't created his own identity. IDK, just a thought.


I think you might be right, Donna. If you're grinding out a living sounding like everyone else for the better part of your life, I imagine finding your own approach or gravitating to one in particular to hone a specific direction must be pretty damn difficult.
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Postby steveo777 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:23 pm

What I hear in Arnel is a guy who says I'm not gonna be what fate has dealt me. Knowing his back story,
although told a zillion times, helps me hear a package of life that brings me a great deal of emotion. I'm
sure there were many times in his life where he could have just said "oh fuck it", but still managed to grow
into a better person. So I guess, I hear all that in his music, but I do hear the emotion when he sings and
I feel his presence when he is on stage. Not everyone gets or appreciates that either, but I don't fault them.

Those damn Filipinos....so much like Americans, but they talk different. :wink:
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Postby Don » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:46 pm

steveo777 wrote:What I hear in Arnel is a guy who says I'm not gonna be what fate has dealt me. Knowing his back story,
although told a zillion times, helps me hear a package of life that brings me a great deal of emotion. I'm
sure there were many times in his life where he could have just said "oh fuck it", but still managed to grow
into a better person. So I guess, I hear all that in his music, but I do hear the emotion when he sings and
I feel his presence when he is on stage. Not everyone gets or appreciates that either, but I don't fault them.

Those damn Filipinos....so much like Americans, but they talk different. :wink:


But you shouldn't need to know his back story to naturally detect emotion or what ever in his voice. That's what separates the great ones from the merely good ones. If I hear a new artist and it sounds like they are bleeding their soul into the songs, without me even knowing the singer's name that's a great artist.
Like this girl Adele. I didn't know who she was but I would hear the songs on the radio and was like "wow", She is carrying her emotion on her sleeve. Finally I heard her name and was like, that's the girl? Not at what I expected but that is what great singers do.
Arnel has been so busy strictly emulating great singers for practically his whole life, it must be hard for him to throw the other switch and just be himself.

The one time where I could genuinely hear emotion from the guy was at the Greek Theatre at the end of the 2008 tour, when he sang, WYLAW.. The guy was tired, beat homesick and all that just came out when he sang that song. It's when you convey that type of emotion even when your back ISN'T up against the wall, that's when you are truly becoming a great vocalist.
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Postby STORY_TELLER » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:55 pm

steveo777 wrote:What I hear in Arnel is a guy who says I'm not gonna be what fate has dealt me. Knowing his back story,
although told a zillion times, helps me hear a package of life that brings me a great deal of emotion. I'm
sure there were many times in his life where he could have just said "oh fuck it", but still managed to grow
into a better person. So I guess, I hear all that in his music, but I do hear the emotion when he sings and
I feel his presence when he is on stage. Not everyone gets or appreciates that either, but I don't fault them.

Those damn Filipinos....so much like Americans, but they talk different. :wink:


Interesting. From what you're saying though, it seems to me you're projecting a subtext into his voice and that's what you internally process when he sings/performs. I think Don's response illustrates why that wouldn't be the case for most people who never heard his back story, or even if they did, don't project that impression on him and simply hear his voice.
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Postby slucero » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:35 pm

Arnel has a great voice... no doubt...

Perry had a great voice too.....


"singing"... is a whole 'nother thing...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby steveo777 » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:46 pm

Don wrote:
steveo777 wrote:What I hear in Arnel is a guy who says I'm not gonna be what fate has dealt me. Knowing his back story,
although told a zillion times, helps me hear a package of life that brings me a great deal of emotion. I'm
sure there were many times in his life where he could have just said "oh fuck it", but still managed to grow
into a better person. So I guess, I hear all that in his music, but I do hear the emotion when he sings and
I feel his presence when he is on stage. Not everyone gets or appreciates that either, but I don't fault them.

Those damn Filipinos....so much like Americans, but they talk different. :wink:


But you shouldn't need to know his back story to naturally detect emotion or what ever in his voice. That's what separates the great ones from the merely good ones. If I hear a new artist and it sounds like they are bleeding their soul into the songs, without me even knowing the singer's name that's a great artist.
Like this girl Adele. I didn't know who she was but I would hear the songs on the radio and was like "wow", She is carrying her emotion on her sleeve. Finally I heard her name and was like, that's the girl? Not at what I expected but that is what great singers do.
Arnel has been so busy strictly emulating great singers for practically his whole life, it must be hard for him to throw the other switch and just be himself.

The one time where I could genuinely hear emotion from the guy was at the Greek Theatre at the end of the 2008 tour, when he sang, WYLAW.. The guy was tired, beat homesick and all that just came out when he sang that song. It's when you convey that type of emotion even when your back ISN'T up against the wall, that's when you are truly becoming a great vocalist.


This is probably the key to the puzzle many people have been trying to figure out. Makes total sense. He has all the stuff in there, now he just needs to learn
to use it appropriately. If he ever figures that all out, he will be dangerously good.
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Postby Andrew » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:26 pm

"A Truly Unbiased" review... ie: your own opinion. Just like everyone else has an opinion.
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Postby Archetype » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:43 pm

Don wrote:
steveo777 wrote:Has anyone actually got all of Jon's albums and do you listen to them? This guy leads a double life!
Not taking anything away from his talent. Those are beautiful works for sure. Piano with a view is
awsome! Neal is really much closer to rock n roll on his solo projects, than Jon.


I've listened to four of them and that's why I can never buy into him sticking it out with this new direction beyond one album. The way its looking so far, he won't have to.


I have Piano With a View and Body Language. Jonathan is tremendously talented.
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